HELP! NastayNatron's tank

[lo_yyc]

Hey everyone,

My roommate, NastayNatron, is on vacation right now and I'm taking care of his tank (or at least trying to).

I was out last night and when I came back, I found 1 dead fish and I haven't seen a few of the other ones yet. I know that Nathan mentioned once or twice that sometimes if 1 fish dies, it is toxic to the rest of the ones in the tank and it can kill all of them, so I'm worried that some sort of chain reaction started while I was gone.

The one that I know was for sure dead (that I've taken out now) is the Foxface Rabbitfish, and the ones that I haven't seen yet are Anthias (I don't know what kind - I know there are 3 and 1 of them is a male square spot, but I don't know what kind the other 2 are).

The tank is looking pretty cloudy, but I checked all the things I know how (emptied the skimmer cup yesterday, checked the refugium, no leaks under the tank, and I've cleaned the glass, but I know that probably won't do much) and it's still pretty cloudy. I'm sure that's because the tank hasn't had a proper water change since Nathan left, which was a week ago I think (I just got back from vacation myself).

Anyways, he said that someone would probably be able to give me some ideas. I guess that I know the ideal thing would be to do a water change but I don't know how to do it exactly and I'm not sure if he has any salt water mixed or not.

Anyways, I really appreciate the help, I hope I'm posting this in the right place.

-Lauren

[marie]

Do you have any activated carbon? adding some to the tank will help.

If he has a reactor with carbon in it already on the tank, exchange it for fresh stuff (don't forget to rinse it well before adding to tank) or even putting some fresh rinsed carbon into a media bag (nylons work well for a bag in a pinch, cut the toe and part of the leg to make an approx 10"to 12" long bag and use those plastic bread tags to seal the open end) and placing it in the sump will help a little

[Cal_stir]

is there anything being dosed to the tank like calcium, alkalinity, kalk?

[bignose]

Lauren check to see if he has some premixed water if not get a 5G pail and mix up some salt water. If you don't have ro water use some dechlorinator it's better than doing nothing. How big is the tank? must be a fair size if there was a foxface.

[pirate]

Do you know how big the tank is? ( even a quess in feet overall ) How cloudy is it? Pea soup or bathroom mirror after a hot shower? Are you adding anything to the tank while your looking after it? How full was the skimmer cup? Is it flowing all over the outside? Or staying inthe cup?
Do you know what kind of fish and or corals are inthe tank? Was the tank all cloudy when you came home or after you tried to get the dead fish out? Have the other fish started to show up yet.

[lo_yyc]

OK, first - thank you SOOOOO much!

I found activated carbon and a filter sock - will that work if I just fill up the filter sock and place that in the sump?

For dosing, there's calcium and alkalinity that both work on a dosing pump, but I'm not totally sure how that's set up. The display thing says that the pH is 8.6, but I don't know what it's supposed to be.

I think he has some salt water mixed, but I'm not 100% sure. I didn't know how else to test it so I tasted it and it tasted different than the RO water (I think, anyways) - but I'm not sure how salty it should be.

I think it's 125 gallons, but it's about 6 ft by 3 ft by 2 ft or so.

It was definitely cloudy like a bathroom mirror after a hot shower when I got home (before I took out the fish). I'm not adding anything to it except food.

Yesterday when I emptied the skimmer cup, the rest of the water in the sump was clean - I was just emptying it to be safe, so it shouldn't have overflowed into the tank. I just re-emptied it now to make sure as well.

So far I haven't seen the missing fish, but there's no way to see if they're behind the rocks.

As far as the fish I can name, the ones I can still see are:

-female square-spotted anthia
-copper banded butterfly
-tang - like Dory on Finding Nemo
-orange clownfish
-3 cardinals
-leopard wrasse (still alive)
-another tang, I don't know what kind, but it's black and yellow/white striped and has like flowy fins (sorry for the poor description)
-a third tang, it's the kind that either comes in blond or dark or whatever and has lipsticky looking lips
-flame angel fish
-coral beauty
-diamond goby
-black clown fish (can't find)
-male square spotted anthia (can't find)
-2 other, smaller anthias (can't find)

Hope that helps a little, I'm sorry I'm so clueless.

Thanks again

[Cal_stir]

ph 8.6 is high, sounds like too much alk, does he have a alk test kit?

[lo_yyc]

He does have an alk test kit - I just did it and it says the pH is 8.3, but I've never done the test before so I'm not 100% confident that I know how to do it.

[Cal_stir]

you mean 8.3 dkh? what kind of test kit is it, just follow the instructions, 8.3 dkh is not bad, maybe try the test again

[lo_yyc]

No, that's right - it's 8.3 dkH.

But..... now that I took out the dead fish it's actually looking like it's started to clear up a bit, I'm not sure if that's possible, but it sure is what it looks like.

And the fish are looking a little more active than when I first came home, so that's probably a good sign, right?

[Cal_stir]

yes, good sign.
make sure the return pump is running and all powerheads are on, do a water change if you can.
the high ph is a worry, what is it now?

[Cal_stir]

How is it going? is it clearing up?

[Lampshade]

One thing to make sure is that all the pumps are on and circulating water. Odd to lose fish from much more than the basics of water movement and temp/salinity. So as long as there isn't a pool of water on the ground, salinity should be the same. Temperature is easy to check, so just make sure there's lots of water turn over.

Did the skimmer cup overflow into the tank? that would cause it to be cloudy and also cause a nitrate spike, starving oxygen.

Did a pump fall off a mount and blast into the sand? that could release all kinds of nasty stuff into the tank.

[lo_yyc]

It has cleared up a bit and the fish are still more active than they were when I got home. The pumps and powerheads seem to be working normally - it looks the same and has the same colour on the indicator lights as usual. I guess now I'm just concerned because I still haven't seen a few of the fish and I can't find their bodies either.

The pH has gone up a little bit, to 8.7, so that's concerning too, it sounds like. I think the temperature is within range though, it's 79.2.

The skimmer cup didn't overflow into the sump as far as I saw, and I've emptied it twice in the past 3 days, so that shouldn't be it.

Thanks again for all your help everyone,

-Lauren

[Cal_stir]

that PH is too hi, what are you measuring the PH with?
are you sure the water is running through the sump and the skimmer is running, the bubbles should be half way up the cup.
do you have an air pump and airstone you can put in the tank, this will help lower the PH.
vinegar will lower the PH instantly, you can add a tsp full of WHITE vinegar to a high flow area in the sump and lower the PH.
you need to find the reason for the hi PH, if it continues to climb you will lose everything.

[lo_yyc]

I'm just measuring it with the general automation-ish system that he has. It's actually almost up to 8.8 now, so maybe I'll try the vinegar thing. I'm just a little nervous - can that be a problem when he doses calcium as well?

[Cal_stir]

yes but less likely, does he dose from buckets? check to see if the dosing pumps are running( the bar in the middle turning) or pull the tubing out of the sump and see if anything is coming out of them.

add the white vinegar to a high flow area of the sump, add it a tsp at a time, wait a few minutes and check the reading, it will probably take about 10 tsp before you see a sgnificant change.

check the dosing pumps or remove the tubes from the tank( they could be siphoning), it would be safer not dosing than dosing too much.

[Cal_stir]

also, is he adding kalk to his top off water? if he is remove it as well and top off manually, the kalk would be stored in a reactor of some sort or mixed in a top off container.

i know this is all complicated if you are not familiar with it but you must find the reason for the high PH or it will go back up overnight.

[Gripenfelter]

I would do some large water changes and check all the water parameters.

[lo_yyc]

OK, so I tried some vinegar and so far nothing has happened, so I think I might just need to do a water change. the only problem there is that I don't really know how. I've seen Nathan do it a million times, but I don't know what I need to turn off and stuff before I do it. I'm also not sure if there's salt in the water downstairs, so I guess I might just need to mix it.

Would powerheads need to be turned off in order to do a water change?

[marie]

If you are unsure of how to do a water change then it is probably best to leave everything alone

[lo_yyc]

Thanks Marie, I wasn't sure how complicated it was and was worried to try. I appreciate it. I'll keep trying the vinegar for the pH. I think another fish might be missing, but I guess there's not much I can do about that now.

Thanks again all!

-L.

[Cal_stir]

What is the PH now?
How much vinegar have you added?

[lo_yyc]

The pH is back up at 8.8 - I've added 4 tsp of vinegar so far and I took the tube out of the dosing pump for alkalinity

[Cal_stir]

if you have a 120 gal tank, you will need to add about 20 tsp of vinegar to lower the PH by 0.3, keep adding the vinegar until you have added 20 tsp then see what the PH is.
is the water still cloudy?

[lo_yyc]

OK, I've added 7 tsp now - the pH is at 8.71.

How long should I wait between teaspoons?

The water is less cloudy, but still more cloudy than usual (probably because it hasn't had a water change in a week).

[Cal_stir]

if you are adding it to a high flow area in the sump I would wait about 10 seconds, if adding to the tank wait 30sec

[Cal_stir]

do you have a salinity meter? ifso, check the tanks salinity

[Cal_stir]

i'm in ontario so i'm getting ready for bed. lower the ph slowly, 0.3 at a time then wait an hour before lowering more, try to get it to 8.3, google water change on a marine tank, there will be lots of videos, a 20% water change would be very helpful. good luck

[warriorcookie]

is there nobody in the calgary area that can run over and help out with a water change?

I wish I was there to help you man.

[christyf5]

Jeez, where in Calgary are you? Maybe one of your fellow calgarians can come over and assess the situation.

[Gripenfelter]

This is how I do water changes:

Turn off power heads.

Siphon desired amount of water out of display tank.

When sump starts to run very low or you see bubbles enter the display tank, turn off the return pump. Turning it off during siphoning prevents a flood in the sump.

Mix water to 1.025 mix using a salinity meter. Make sure water is at least room temperature or close to same temp as tank water.

Add prime to water if you are using tap water.

Slowly add water to sump and allow it to mix and come up to temp.

Turn on return pump and keep adding pre mixed water as needed.

Turn powerheads back on.

Since this is your first time I wouldn't do more than a 10% water change.

After 20 mins measure tank parameters again.

If you can get someone to help you do it, who has done it before, do a 20% water change.