Cracked crossbrace

[-=James=-]

Hopefully this is the right section. Doesnt seem to be a general section for threads...

I have a 180 gallon tank (72x24x24) and had a 72" metal halide fixture (3x150W) temporarily sitting on top of the tank while I was working on some things.

I have 2 large cross braces aross the tank (12" wide by 24" long) and one of the 150W bulbs was sitting directly above the crossbrace with 1-2" to spare. The light sat there for < 1 hour and I suddenly hear a *CRACK*. I hoped it was my pistol shrimp but it was too loud to be him. I find that one of the cross braces got so hot and cracked the whole width of the brace. I never thought about the glass getting THAT hot that it would crack 5/8" glass :redface:.

Is there a way to repair this? Is it safe to have a cracked crossbrace?
I know many people dont run cross braces at all and have tanks bigger than my 180. Im just concerned for the structure of the tank. I was thinking about glueing a piece of glass on each side or getting someone to fill the cracks with glue like they wound a windshield? Please provide any comments regarding my available options.

Thanks in advance

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/philong_trac/180%20Gallon%20SW%20Aquarium/IMG_0516.jpg

[lastlight]

Might be a good excuse to rip the other out and eurobrace the whole thing. I certainly wouldn't use the tank as is. For whatever reason the builder thought it needed them.

[lockrookie]

Might be a good excuse to rip the other out and eurobrace the whole thing. I certainly wouldn't use the tank as is. For whatever reason the builder thought it needed them.

i agree fix it asap there is alot of water presure in there one mishap and poof your in the market for a new tank. i also agree with the euro bracing if you can have your tank not cycling water for 24 hours while the sylicone cures. you may hae to remove some water to remove presure on the sides to repair or if your extreemly careful you may be able to clamp the area to reduce stress as you repair.

just be careful bud.

btw really looking forward to recievingthe light you "had" tomorrow thanks again you'll have topost what your replacement will be

[lastlight]

I somehow missed the fact that the tank is running. Thought this was a build in progress. I really don't know what you should do. The whole thing is under pressure even if you drain some. How new is the setup? I'd be tempted to transfer the livestock to some bins and repair under a no-pressure scenario but I've got no facts to back that up.

[-=James=-]

Oh boy, I didn't think it was this serious.

Forgot to mention, the tank is also eurobraced and is running.

[lockrookie]

i think if he dropped it down to a third he could put clamps oneach side of the area tobe repaired.. replace the glass and fill back up to run as it cures and carefully remove the clamps after the cure period it should hold fine concidering if it was to pop it would have by now the other 12 on the opposite side is just most likely working overtime to hold it all in place im assuming about 2 eet away

[lockrookie]

Oh boy, I didn't think it was this serious.

Forgot to mention, the tank is also eurobraced and is running.

yes a thin euro bracing i know what you mean my 180 has it its very thin maybe 1"and a half it helps but is more there just tokeep the glass even across the top but with clamps on either side snug but not too tight tillyou relieve water pressure inside the tank

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

In my openion as my tank is a 180 glns and like your as you said its eurobraced.I would't worry about it and remove the whole broken piece from the middle.
Its only my openion I would as someone like Dave From conceptaquatics as he is a builder.

[lockrookie]

if its been like this for awhile dont stress too much just be careful of how you lean on the area and what notand get a plan together fro repair it is better to stress out your stock temporarily than lose it all.. a small chunk of glasslike that shouldntcostmore that 30 to 40 bucks even less.

[lockrookie]

you removed your pics from the light thread lol if you can post a pic of it

[-=James=-]

yes a thin euro bracing i know what you mean my 180 has it its very thin maybe 1"and a half it helps but is more there just tokeep the glass even across the top but with clamps on either side snug but not too tight tillyou relieve water pressure inside the tank

Correct, it has thin eurobracing, about 1.5".

You guys are up late! Updated with a pic. Im going to lose a ton of sleep over this...doesnt help that im away for the weekend too. Ill give Dave a call tomorrow!
Would it be feasible to glue 2 pieces of glass to the top and bottom of the crossbrace and "fix" it?

:hurt:

[lockrookie]

it looks likeits still holding not separating from the two. you may be ok for the short term. but i would get it replaced. the side brace is helping as well as the other cross brace. so sleep better get some rest. how long has it been cracked?

i have two 6 month olds that tend to wake in the middle of the night so i stay up so wife can get her rest

edit i would leave as is if its not loose any presure could loosen it

[lastlight]

Sleep is for the weak. Oh how I envy the weak!

[-=James=-]

I will be putting some large clamps from home depot tomorrow morning for the time being. Thanks guys.

Perfect way to get into the hobby...or out :twised:

[lastlight]

Oh now I see the pic. Lucky you it's not actually moved apart... I would totally have the exact piece cut and cover the thing with silicone and toss it on top. No need to disturb the tank either! The curing fumes should just dissipate up and out? With the entire thing smeared with silicone and pressed together the two pieces wouldn't budge at all if the bottom one ever cracked I don't think (massive surface area contact).

I'd never clamp a tank that's under load but that's just me.

[lockrookie]

Sleep is for the weak. Oh how I envy the weak!

you just enjoy staring at your tank at night. i know i would
except my 90 looks like crap at the moment #@#$#@ diatom bloom

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Sleep??? What's sleep?

I get to work most of the night after taking care of Felicia most of the day. Then I get to fight morning rush hour traffic (leaving home at 7:15am) to go to court and watch Irene get her Canadian citizenship.

On the plus side, my custom LED unit is finally finished and will be delivered tomorrow evening. Yeah!!!

BTW, my 165g is Eurobraced with NO crossbracing and it is perfectly fine.

[lockrookie]

Oh now I see the pic. Lucky you it's not actually moved apart... I would totally have the exact piece cut and cover the thing with silicone and toss it on top. No need to disturb the tank either! The curing fumes should just dissipate up and out? With the entire thing smeared with silicone and pressed together the two pieces wouldn't budge at all if the bottom one ever cracked I don't think (massive surface area contact).

I'd never clamp a tank that's under load but that's just me.

i could never just do that and leave it tho it would look ugly and bother me

i guess temporarily he could use a board and do the same thing silicone the crap out and leave it till he can replace it. since he is going away

but it does give you alot of ideas if you did this no need for clamps asave the money there

[lastlight]

If the tank's open-top I'd likely not do something that ugly but I'd do it with my current tank. A little ghetto never hurt anyone not to mention I honestly think it'd be just as strong as before (only because the bracing has not actually moved at all). Without entirely draining a tank I'd never trust the new brace since it's resting state isn't with the tank empty... so it's not pulling the panes together as well as the original one.

[lockrookie]

If the tank's open-top I'd likely not do something that ugly but I'd do it with my current tank. A little ghetto never hurt anyone not to mention I honestly think it'd be just as strong as before (only because the bracing has not actually moved at all). Without entirely draining a tank I'd never trust the new brace since it's resting state isn't with the tank empty... so it's not pulling the panes together as well as the original one.

true unless he drains it 2/3 clamps it and lets it set for curing time and fills it with clamps on using a plank to across glass for support untill its fully cured

i dunno its up to james on the looks of it if he had a hood no biggy. i do understand your thinking tho. for me im picky sob and wouldnt be able to handle it not being unison lol id have to do the same to the other side make it match

[-=James=-]

I drained 1/2 the water out and dismantling my rock so that everything will still be underwater.

Called Dave@Concept and he said he will be able to take out both cross braces and redo 3-4" eurobrace hopefully Monday or Tuesday.

Fingers crossed that everything will be fine. Who wouldve thought something so small be so serious!

Heres my tank a few days ago at 2 months old.
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/philong_trac/IMG_8942.jpg

After tear down :cry:
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/philong_trac/IMG_0518-1.jpg

[lockrookie]

glad you caught it in time woulda hated to see that crack worse yu wil enjoy he euro bracing thats what ill be doing and at least you have a pic to help re aquascape again.

light didnt show up ths morning hopefully its on the bus tonight for pick up in the am. good luck with it all

[lastlight]

That was a really nice scape. Here's your chance to improve I guess. You'll never get the same thing twice lol. Good luck with the fix you're in good hands.

[sphelps]

Honestly I would wager the center brace is not needed, many tank builders know little regarding what's actually needed for structural integrity and those "center braces" are often just scraps put in to support lids and not actually even put in for structure. If you want send me the glass thickness of the front pane and the thickness and width of the euro brace and I can tell you if the center braces are needed.

[unclesalty]

Now I am starting to get crossbrace cold feet/paranoia :question:

[lockrookie]

Now I am starting to get crossbrace cold feet/paranoia :question:

dont set halides on glass while turned on
besides you will have led's so unless you are dancing on your bracing bud you will be ok. halides have been known to overheat bracing and cracking.

and sphelps his main support is the cross bracing the "euro bracing" really isnt as much as a level surface that they silicone the trim to to keep it level and in between the cross braces and is only 1"1/2 wide and would shatter in an instant. it would have to be 3" or greater to have any structural signifigance but if he re does teh whole tank 3 to 4 " all around he should never have to worry again of halides heating the cross bracing

[unclesalty]

dont set halides on glass while turned on
besides you will have led's so unless you are dancing on your bracing bud you will be ok. halides have been known to overheat bracing and cracking.

and sphelps his main support is the cross bracing the "euro bracing" really isnt as much as a level surface that they silicone the trim to to keep it level and in between the cross braces and is only 1"1/2 wide and would shatter in an instant. it would have to be 3" or greater to have any structural signifigance but if he re does teh whole tank 3 to 4 " all around he should never have to worry again of halides heating the cross bracing

I guess I could fill it up with RO waste water and see how it goes. Yes you are right my LED's give off nothing for heat. The one downfall with Euro bracing on mine is that it would cover a good portion of the overflow and my type of overflow is a "priority" must have for me!

[lockrookie]

you have nothing to worry about. in either case. your good to go. i hve to takemy tank apart anyways i bought itwith a huge crack in it and it must be rebuilt thus why im going euro brace.

btw jameswhen you read all this ask dave how much tonotch the onne euro brace where the overflow is to give you more room for the overflow

[-=James=-]

Honestly I would wager the center brace is not needed, many tank builders know little regarding what's actually needed for structural integrity and those "center braces" are often just scraps put in to support lids and not actually even put in for structure. If you want send me the glass thickness of the front pane and the thickness and width of the euro brace and I can tell you if the center braces are needed.

Glass thickness is 1/2" I believe, eurobrace is also 1/2" thick and 1.5" wide on the front and back pane and about 2.5" on the sides.

btw jameswhen you read all this ask dave how much tonotch the onne euro brace where the overflow is to give you more room for the overflow

I will, thanks. I never thought about that. Kicking myself for not thinking about the glass cracking to heat.

My dad suggested I take the black trim off, clamp the tank, remove the broken crossbrace, then silicone a new piece in its place. Does this sound feasible? Its about 10x cheaper than getting a shop to redo the whole eurobrace. He also said he would rather not compromise the tank structure further by removing both crossbraces and redoing the eurobrace.

Thoughts? Thanks again everyone, the replies have been very affirming.

[lockrookie]

Glass thickness is 1/2" I believe, eurobrace is also 1/2" thick and 1.5" wide on the front and back pane and about 2.5" on the sides.



I will, thanks. I never thought about that. Kicking myself for not thinking about the glass cracking to heat.

My dad suggested I take the black trim off, clamp the tank, remove the broken crossbrace, then silicone a new piece in its place. Does this sound feasible? Its about 10x cheaper than getting a shop to redo the whole eurobrace. He also said he would rather not compromise the tank structure further by removing both crossbraces and redoing the eurobrace.

Thoughts? Thanks again everyone, the replies have been very affirming.

sounds very feasable and definately cheaper. as you wont be setting lights on the bracing again

[-=James=-]

sounds very feasable and definately cheaper. as you wont be setting lights on the bracing again

Perfect, I think I will be going that route. Although I would love to get real eurobracing done, its a little expensive at this point...I might as well spend a bit more and get a new tank. Live and learn.

And no halides will be going near the glass anytime soon haha. There should be a sticky for newbies to learn from others mistakes.

Lesson 1: Get tempered glass for crossbraces
Lesson 2: Get eurobracing done and no cross braces if possible.

[lockrookie]

dont beat yourself up too much things happen and it could have been worse.. in the end your tank had a minor glitch that is soon to be rectified. and you will carry on and enjoy. in this hobby everyone has an issue of some sort i know a guy just in the first fill his eurobracing broke. just a flaw in theglass.

[sphelps]

lockrookie is correct regarding the tank not actually being euro braced so the centers are structural. However it is still overkill and I can suggest two new options that may not have been discussed yet.

1. Leave the tank as is and silicone a 6mm center brace directly on top of the existing cracked brace. Requires no removal of trim or other modifications and will provide enough reinforcement to the crack brace. By far the cheapest and easiest solution but not the prettiest and could disrupt light depending on how they are setup.

2. Remove both center braces. Install new euro brace, however all the tank needs is the front and rear pieces, not sides. The 1.5" current brace can also stay in place, install a new 4" euro underneath the current 1.5". Not sure how easy this option is but to me if you're already willing to remove one center brace the outcome of this option is best.

[-=James=-]

These look like my best 2 options right now. Thanks!

lockrookie is correct regarding the tank not actually being euro braced so the centers are structural. However it is still overkill and I can suggest two new options that may not have been discussed yet.

1. Leave the tank as is and silicone a 6mm center brace directly on top of the existing cracked brace. Requires no removal of trim or other modifications and will provide enough reinforcement to the crack brace. By far the cheapest and easiest solution but not the prettiest and could disrupt light depending on how they are setup.

I was thinking exactly this but i'm not sure how bad the light penetration would be. Definitely the easiest route though. Might consider this instead of replacing the brace.


2. Remove both center braces. Install new euro brace, however all the tank needs is the front and rear pieces, not sides. The 1.5" current brace can also stay in place, install a new 4" euro underneath the current 1.5". Not sure how easy this option is but to me if you're already willing to remove one center brace the outcome of this option is best.

This was what the best option looks like, but also the most expensive as I would hire someone to come over and do the job.

I didnt think of installing a new eurobrace under the old one and leaving the old one in place, very clever and I think that will work and be a cheap choice as well. This way, I dont need to hire the LFS to remove the old braces and install new ones.

***Can someone confirm if installing a new eurobrace UNDER the old one will be as effective as replacing the old eurobrace? And if installed under, should I remove or leave the cross braces? This is looking like the most promising alternative!

[lockrookie]

personally i thinkputting it under your current brace will hinder your overflow too much stickwith current plan replace broken glass letcure for 24 hours and your set back to original

[lastlight]

1. Leave the tank as is and silicone a 6mm center brace directly on top of the existing cracked brace.

My idea got vetoed already!

[lockrookie]

My idea got vetoed already!

lol not vetoed it was still an option

[-=James=-]

Update:

Got a hookup on a free piece of tempered glass and replaced it while half the water was drained. I did not use clamps because the tank is too close to the wall and I didnt want to risk more damage.

Thank you everyone for your comments and advice!

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/philong_trac/180%20Gallon%20SW%20Aquarium/IMG_9834.jpg