Effect of wattage on coral colour...

[Quinn]

Could one expect decreased colour intensity and less attractive hues under 175w halides versus 400w halides?

[monza]

I would say for sure! I went from 150w to 250w for just that reason to increase the colors and the intensity of the colors. Big difference so 175w -400w would be more so.

Dave

[StirCrazy]

Could one expect decreased colour intensity and less attractive hues under 175w halides versus 400w halides?

yup. growth will likely remain the same though..

Steve

[Aquattro]

growth will likely remain the same though..

Steve

what is this based on?

[BCOrchidGuy]

Gets out some popcorn to watch this one...

Doug

[Aquattro]

Gets out some popcorn to watch this one...

Doug

Still out of work, eh Doug?

All I'm asking is how Steve thinks a light with a lot more intensity won't affect growth rate. My experience going form 175 to 400 says he is mistaken.

[BCOrchidGuy]

<has a job thankya, I know I'm kinda curious about that too. Then again I've heard arguements that the difference between 175 and 250 watts will effect appearance more than colour( edited, I mean growth). I'm just not aware of any thing to substantiate that side of the conversation.

[Aquattro]

difference between 175 and 250 watts will effect appearance more than colour.

Not sure what you mean by appearance vs. colour....

[BCOrchidGuy]

DOH I mean appearance more than growth. IE under weaker lights the colour seems to drop off.

Doug

[Aquattro]

Doug, that isn't always the case. I have an acro that colors up better for me when it is on the sand as opposed to up high. Different light will change the appearance, but not always for the better.
As for growth, I'm sure the increase isn't linear, but more light does equal more growth. I know this from experience. I've also taken stuff from my tank and put it under 400w Iwasakis, and the growth increased even more over what I had under my 10k bulbs.
So all else being equal, more light will give more growth in most cases. Or maybe I just got the super duper 400w bulbs! :razz:

[BCOrchidGuy]

I believe it's a matter of a number of different things. Your tank is much more broken in than mine, I assume you'll see more stable conditions that I will for a period of time so I would expect you to see better growth if we were to use the same light. Your method of dosing will be different from mine, I'm using a few different things while I slowly add to my Tim Taylor/RedGreen collection of Dosing systems, IE my Kalk Reactor, Ca Reactor that I'm working on etc. The Salt you use probably makes a difference too.
All in all... I wish I had half the answers...

Doug

[Bryan]

I have seen some tanks with 250 watt low Kelvin bulbs and they simply blow away tanks using higher wattages in terms of coral color. There is a lot more to color and growth than lighting, e.g. alkalinity, water movement, DOC etc..

[StirCrazy]

what is this based on?

well if you would have been at the meeting you would know :wink:

seriously though, it is being found that you can achieve phenominal growth (but not good color) with NO lights, as long as you have some sort of event to triger the photosysnthis. this can be an event such as a camera flash, or a higher bulb comming on for a few miniuts then going off.

learned a lot of cool stuff, some new and different ideas but cool none the less. this theory would explaine why I am getting the same growth rate on my corals as I did with my PC's and the 175W bulbs as I do with the dual HQI's.. although color left nothing to be desired back then.

Steve

[Aquattro]

There is a lot more to color and growth than lighting, e.g. alkalinity, water movement, DOC etc..

I snipped this from a thread on RC because I thought it really explained everything about coral color...reprinted without permission, but hoping nobody minds...

"there are only two things which affect sps coloration. These are zooxanthellae density and accessory pigments.
Accessory pigments are determined by growth, light intensity and spectrum.
growth is also determined by calcium availability, alkalinity, trace elements, flow, temperature, salinity, food and stability. zooxanthellae density is relative to nutrients, growth, temperature and light intensity, spectrum and duration.

when corals exhibit fast growth, the growing margin has fewer zooxanthellae and more accessory pigments leading to colorful tips or rims.
Zooxanthellae can mask colorful pigments when they are in high densities. In nutrient poor conditions and under high light intensity and ideal spectrum, zooxanthellae populations will be further reduced leading to more visible accessory pigments especially within the body of the colony.

As you can see already it is a very complicated and weakly understood process and I am sure I have left something out.


__________________
Jake Adams"

[Aquattro]

Steve, that doesn't explain then why I experienced greater growth with bigger lights....

[BCOrchidGuy]

Steve, that's interesting. So there is a chance that if I go to two 250w MH rather than going to a two 400w MH I can see similar growth but possibly not as good colour out of SPS?

Brad, that sure makes sense.

Doug

[Aquattro]

Doug, what is "good colour"? Some corals may respond better to 250w than 400w, depending on your answer to the first question....

[BCOrchidGuy]

I knew that.. I just forgot it. That would explain also why I'm not seeing much grown on a couple of my frags from the last meeting but the Pink Birds nest has lots of little nodes popping out all over it.

Doug

[Quinn]

We have to remember, of course, that we cannot truly establish causation without parallel environments with only one manipulated variable. It may not be the change in lights affecting growth or coloration. Of course anecdotal evidence is about the best we can get in this hobby in the course of a discussion that takes us a day to wrap up, and I will settle for it. :mrgreen:

[BCOrchidGuy]

Quinn I gotta learn that language you speak...lol

[Aquattro]

Quinn I gotta learn that language you speak...lol

Quinn was more fun to talk to before he went to school. Now he uses big words and complicates everything. Sheesh....

[Quinn]

But Brad, we've had lots of fun with big words! :razz:

Come on now, you guys haven't taken research methods courses? :confused: But seriously, midterm tomorrow, I've been putting off studying so I have to at least try to keep the stuff in the easy access sections of my memory.

Basically I was saying that our "research" isn't scientific and therefore has to be taken with a grain of salt.

[BCOrchidGuy]

I could understand that this time. Thanks for the translation.

Doug

[StirCrazy]

hmmm

[StirCrazy]

Brad exactly you hit it on the nose.. read that again.. growth is due to "calcium availability, alkalinity, trace elements, flow, temperature, salinity, food and stability"

but lets simplify this even more and focus on Ca.. a coral grows by shedding Ca. if it can shed Ca for some reason it can't grow. so now here is another twist I learned.. if your calcium is to high you actualy slow down growth.

As far as color, if you have high power lights you reduce the amount of zooxanthellae needed to make food. zooxanthellae are Brown so if you reduce the number you reduce the amount of brown. if you don't have enuf light you will cause the number of zooxanthellae to be increased hence causing the coral to become more brown.

now how much light do you need? I tend to agree with Anthony Calfo when he said "if you are running 400 watts on a tank that is less than 30" deep you are waisting your time."

Brad I realy can say what growth you had as you have had 400's as long as I remember but, did get good growht because of the bulbs or was it a factor from somthing else that might have coinceadently happend close to the same time? (oh we got to do lunch some time soon :mrgreen: )

Teevee, speak english or don't. it hurts my head trying to figure out what you said :mrgreen: and on the serious side it doesen't lend anything to the discussion.

Steve

[BCOrchidGuy]

Steve that sure helps me make my decision about not using 2 400s and just going to 2 250s. So, now I'm going to have a 400w 10,000k for sale enclosed ballast etc... how much should I ask so Bob doesn't laugh at me? lol

Doug

[StirCrazy]

Steve that sure helps me make my decision about not using 2 400s and just going to 2 250s. So, now I'm going to have a 400w 10,000k for sale enclosed ballast etc... how much should I ask so Bob doesn't laugh at me? lol

Doug

now having said all that you might want to keep the 400 watt to use for a radium (actinic purposes) between a couple 250 watt bulbs.

Steve

[BCOrchidGuy]

You know I did think of that but I'm having to do this on a bit of a budget, sudden expenses and all. I was thinking of 2 HO actinics off a WH7 would be sufficient for actinic on this tank.

Doug

[Quinn]

Steve sounds like the Seattle meeting was really good. What you've said makes good sense and helps answer my original question.

On another note, I will make an effort to write in a more lucid (translation: easier to understand) fashion while maintaining a level of eloquence (translation: still making myself sound smarter than I am). :razz:

[BCOrchidGuy]

What's that old saying, If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with.....

[christyf5]

What's that old saying, If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with.....


:mrgreen:

[StirCrazy]

On another note, I will make an effort to write in a more lucid (translation: easier to understand) fashion while maintaining a level of eloquence (translation: still making myself sound smarter than I am). :razz:

:mrgreen: hehe

Steve

[StirCrazy]

I'm having to do this on a bit of a budget, sudden expenses and all.

Doug

after seeing the tanks I did this weekend I have to come to realize you cannot build a tank on a budget with out sacrafices in areas that might haunt you larter. this doesent apply to you and the 400 watt as it is a astetics thing. I am still in Aww after spending 4 hours at Mikes place drooling over his tank and picking his brain.

Steve