Is it OK to dose Vodka and run an UV ?

[Casey8]

I am starting to dose Vodka but also running an UV sterilizer, is it going to get a bad effect like killing bacteria etc ... ?

[Cal_stir]

yes, it will be counter productive, carbon dosing is for increasing bacteria and UV will kill it

[globaldesigns]

+1, UV will kill everything in the water column that goes thru it, if powerful enough

[Casey8]

I want to use an UV for controlling disease in a tank like ich or another kind of bacteria. My tank is free from ich for a long time now, but the dead of my previous fishes are still lingering in my mind and I really don't want it to happen again. I can't set up a quarantine tank, so I prefer to have an UV running instead. Does that mean if I continue to dose Vodka, I will not be able to plug in an UV at anytime ?

[Proteus]

The building of the culture is gradual so you would be with out sterilizer for quite some time. Pluging it in would put u at square one. What a waste of a fine drink

[Cal_stir]

what are you trying to achieve by vodka dosing?
a denitrator or biopellet reactor might be a better choice, the bacteria live in the reactor and wouldn't be exposed to the UV

[Casey8]

I know I feed my fish too much but I don't like to torture them either, I want them to be able to fully enjoy their life in my small tank. Phosphate and nitrate are the reason I need to do something about it. I had tried bio pellets for 6 months and it had wiped out more than 3/4 of my sps corals from bleaching them. I have been dosing Vodka for about a month now and I am watching it very carefully to see if anything goes wrong with my coral. But so far so good, they are all coloring up more nice than before. If bio pellets is the only way that I can set up an UV again because it holds bacteria in the reactor like Cal_stir said, then maybe I have to try it one more time with those "scary" pellets.

[TimT]

Not all the bacteria will be floating in the water column. Many are attached to a substrate... like a bio pellet or live rock or inside of pipes etc etc.

I dose sugar and vinegar and run a UV and it works fine.

[The Grizz]

If you want to try pellets again I would suggest only using half the recommended amount & no more.

[Proteus]

Why not just turn off uv. Keep it ready in case of outbreak and change your practices. If your fish are healthy you shouldn't have to worry about ick. Your uv also kills benificial pods which is a food sorce so you don't have to feed as much.

You said that your carefully monitoring your vodka dose so why not carefully monitor your feeding

[reefwars]

a uv doesnt do alot for ick anyways it would only get free swiming parasites plus like mentioned it also reduces beneficial bacteria

[Casey8]

Not all the bacteria will be floating in the water column. Many are attached to a substrate... like a bio pellet or live rock or inside of pipes etc etc.

I dose sugar and vinegar and run a UV and it works fine.


Dosing sugar and vinegar ? Never heard of that, but I had a chance to look at the color of your corals picture before, they are amazing.

[Casey8]

Why not just turn off uv. Keep it ready in case of outbreak and change your practices. If your fish are healthy you shouldn't have to worry about ick. Your uv also kills benificial pods which is a food sorce so you don't have to feed as much.

You said that your carefully monitoring your vodka dose so why not carefully monitor your feeding


I only feed the fish twice a day with a mix of mysis, brine shrimp and pellets. Very little but I make sure everybody have a little share of it, nothing left over after 1 minute. I rinse the frozen food very well but still get nitrate and phosphate, don't know where I get it from :twised:

[Proteus]

I only feed the fish twice a day with a mix of mysis, brine shrimp and pellets. Very little but I make sure everybody have a little share of it, nothing left over after 1 minute. I rinse the frozen food very well but still get nitrate and phosphate, don't know where I get it from :twised:

There poop

[Casey8]

There poop

Well ... it is natural to all of us. I think I have to live with it then. Vodka or bio pellets are my only choice.

[ScubaSteve]

I'm with Tim on this one. In the past I would have said it would be counter productive but the more I learn about carbon dosing, the more that opinion changes. When carbon dosing, the majority of the bacteria grow on a substrate of some sort, be it sand, rocks, piping, etc. Comparatively very little of it is actually in the water column. Sanjay Joshi has some articles demonstrating this.

If you are dosing bacteria however, like MB7, I'd shut the UV and skimmer off for a period to avoid just nuking the freshly added bacteria. I think the benefits of having UV preventing disease out-weighs the small decrease in bacteria.

I do VSV and MB7 dosing, though I don't run UV.

[phi delt reefer]

Running UV will not kill the beneficial bacteria as most are stating here - this is a running myth that has been passed on from person to person with no real data (that i have seen atleast - and i spend a lot of time online :D).

lets look at some examples;

1. in reef tanks you can easily do 50%-100% water changes without heavily impacting the bio filtration the system is capable of. Why is this? Because the MAJORITY of the beneficial bacteria are housed in your sand bed and on your rock NOT in the water column.

2. when you want to see new rock you dont use old tank water (though it helps somewhat), you use a piece of ESTABLISHED live rock because it contains the majority of the bacteria you want in your system.

3. multi million dollar aquariums USE giant UV sterilizers with no issues and their bio loads - this includes reef systems, not just fowlers.

4. the water running through the uv filter should be mechanically filtered first or you will clog up the system and reduce the efficiency of the system. Pods shouldnt make it through mechanical filtration if you are doing it right. you want to use the UV to kill algae spores and water borne bacteria. Also - skimmers also pull pods out of the tank and nobody seems to be removing those off their systems.

5. is there any proof of a tank crash or algae bloom from running UV? (if the uv was killing beneficial bacteria then your phosphates and nitrates would jump feeding such a bloom or killing fish and corals)

6. lots of people run UV and are just as successful as those that don't. Its an extra layer of protection. If you are going to use it get a good system (like the Emperor Aquatics units) and get a Tom's Flow meter and make sure you are running the correct flow through the unit to optimize the filtration.

[daniella3d]

Well pretty much everything going through the UV will be killed if it is strong enough and if it is going through it slowly enough. Surly floating phytoplanktin and zooplankton will be killed, water become sterile.

I have looked at the water from my aquarium under a microscope and found a lot of little buggers here and there. The water become alive after sometime, from snails, crabs, shrimps larvae. I even had coral spawning and reproducing in my aquarium. So yes the water is pretty much alive and the UV kill most of that.

I never used a UV, never had a problem with any parasites because I do a strict quarantine and treat for what ever is in there as it goes. I think it is a better way of dealing with parasite than leaving them on fish in small quantity and trying to control them after with a UV. The fish will always have a small amount on them and be susceptible to outbreak.

Multi million dollars public aquariums often use natural sea water, so they don't really care for the cost of water change :) So they probably need the UV to kill what ever parasites could get in with the natural sea water. Since they have a free supply of sea water, they do more water change to control the nitrates etc...I wish I could be near the ocean and get free sea water...then I would definitly use a UV to run all the water through it very slowly to make sure it is clear of nasty parasites and protozoares.

I had a UV in fresh water for my discus because they has a problem with flukes..prazi resistant flukes, but the UV never did anything for the flukes, so I sold it when I got my saltwater tank. I never needed it.

In Coral magazine in an article called "Anorexic Reef" they explained that SPS grow much faster and better in a year old mature aquarium or more because of the zooplankton living in the water and feeding the coral. I have no doubt about this from what I saw in the microscope, so no more UV for me.


Running UV will not kill the beneficial bacteria as most are stating here - this is a running myth that has been passed on from person to person with no real data (that i have seen atleast - and i spend a lot of time online :D).

lets look at some examples;

3. multi million dollar aquariums USE giant UV sterilizers with no issues and their bio loads - this includes reef systems, not just fowlers.

4. the water running through the uv filter should be mechanically filtered first or you will clog up the system and reduce the efficiency of the system. Pods shouldnt make it through mechanical filtration if you are doing it right. you want to use the UV to kill algae spores and water borne bacteria. Also - skimmers also pull pods out of the tank and nobody seems to be removing those off their systems.

5. is there any proof of a tank crash or algae bloom from running UV? (if the uv was killing beneficial bacteria then your phosphates and nitrates would jump feeding such a bloom or killing fish and corals)

6. lots of people run UV and are just as successful as those that don't. Its an extra layer of protection. If you are going to use it get a good system (like the Emperor Aquatics units) and get a Tom's Flow meter and make sure you are running the correct flow through the unit to optimize the filtration.

[Cal_stir]

I know I feed my fish too much but I don't like to torture them either, I want them to be able to fully enjoy their life in my small tank. Phosphate and nitrate are the reason I need to do something about it. I had tried bio pellets for 6 months and it had wiped out more than 3/4 of my sps corals from bleaching them. I have been dosing Vodka for about a month now and I am watching it very carefully to see if anything goes wrong with my coral. But so far so good, they are all coloring up more nice than before. If bio pellets is the only way that I can set up an UV again because it holds bacteria in the reactor like Cal_stir said, then maybe I have to try it one more time with those "scary" pellets.

recirculating biopellet reactors are entering the market,Reefdynamics is making one, I have built one and have just got it up and running, you can control how much aquarium water goes thru it and thus prevent total stripping of nutrients from the water.

[phi delt reefer]

recirculating biopellet reactors are entering the market,Reefdynamics is making one, I have built one and have just got it up and running, you can control how much aquarium water goes thru it and thus prevent total stripping of nutrients from the water.


cal can you post some pics of the unit. i was looking at building one from a broken phosban reactor.

[Cal_stir]

i used a vertex UF15 and a maxijet 1800, i had previously glued the hose barbs in so i had to use hoses, i think a nextreef MR1 or SMR1 would be a good reactor for a build. heres some pics, the blue tubing on the right is water being drawn from the sump, the red tube out the top is water returning to the sump directed at the inlet of my skimmer
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n551/Cal_stir/DSC00308.jpghttp://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n551/Cal_stir/DSC00307.jpghttp://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n551/Cal_stir/DSC00306.jpg

[reefwars]

Well pretty much everything going through the UV will be killed if it is strong enough and if it is going through it slowly enough. Surly floating phytoplanktin and zooplankton will be killed, water become sterile.

I have looked at the water from my aquarium under a microscope and found a lot of little buggers here and there. The water become alive after sometime, from snails, crabs, shrimps larvae. I even had coral spawning and reproducing in my aquarium. So yes the water is pretty much alive and the UV kill most of that.

I never used a UV, never had a problem with any parasites because I do a strict quarantine and treat for what ever is in there as it goes. I think it is a better way of dealing with parasite than leaving them on fish in small quantity and trying to control them after with a UV. The fish will always have a small amount on them and be susceptible to outbreak.

Multi million dollars public aquariums often use natural sea water, so they don't really care for the cost of water change :) So they probably need the UV to kill what ever parasites could get in with the natural sea water. Since they have a free supply of sea water, they do more water change to control the nitrates etc...I wish I could be near the ocean and get free sea water...then I would definitly use a UV to run all the water through it very slowly to make sure it is clear of nasty parasites and protozoares.

I had a UV in fresh water for my discus because they has a problem with flukes..prazi resistant flukes, but the UV never did anything for the flukes, so I sold it when I got my saltwater tank. I never needed it.

In Coral magazine in an article called "Anorexic Reef" they explained that SPS grow much faster and better in a year old mature aquarium or more because of the zooplankton living in the water and feeding the coral. I have no doubt about this from what I saw in the microscope, so no more UV for me.



hey lookie we finally agree on something:) must be the new year:)

+1 to this


heres a cool read its very long but worth the time, youd be surprised whats in our water column and this may dismiss some myths or not. i know one thing i got from this read is every system is different as is our natural reefs and whats in my water column may not be whats in yours.


http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature


def a good read:)

[Casey8]

Thank you very much for this useful link, reefwars. Compared with the higher wattages they were talking about, I only have a 18W UV, do you think I still better have it turned off for good ?

[reefwars]

i guess the answer to the op's original question is yes it is ok to use a uv and carbon dose:) uv still doesnt prevent ick though:)

[reefwars]

Thank you very much for this useful link, reefwars. Compared with the higher wattages they were talking about, I only have a 18W UV, do you think I still better have it turned off for good ?



i havent had a uv on my tank in years and to be honest i havent had ick in any of my tanks for years and ive gone through quite a few tanks lol from reading that article running a uv wont be counterproductive with carbon dosing so its your own call if your using it and its working then i say dont fix whats not broken but im not a fan of using them in saltwater.:)

[Casey8]

I think I have a phobia with ich after I saw how all my previous fish died from that terrible disease. The UV is just a thing that makes me feel more of an extra layer protection, but maybe not, just like you said it is not preventing ich.

[Casey8]

Running UV will not kill the beneficial bacteria as most are stating here - this is a running myth that has been passed on from person to person with no real data (that i have seen atleast - and i spend a lot of time online :D).

lets look at some examples;

1. in reef tanks you can easily do 50%-100% water changes without heavily impacting the bio filtration the system is capable of. Why is this? Because the MAJORITY of the beneficial bacteria are housed in your sand bed and on your rock NOT in the water column.

2. when you want to see new rock you dont use old tank water (though it helps somewhat), you use a piece of ESTABLISHED live rock because it contains the majority of the bacteria you want in your system.

I agree it is feel as an extra laayer protection

3. multi million dollar aquariums USE giant UV sterilizers with no issues and their bio loads - this includes reef systems, not just fowlers.

4. the water running through the uv filter should be mechanically filtered first or you will clog up the system and reduce the efficiency of the system. Pods shouldnt make it through mechanical filtration if you are doing it right. you want to use the UV to kill algae spores and water borne bacteria. Also - skimmers also pull pods out of the tank and nobody seems to be removing those off their systems.

5. is there any proof of a tank crash or algae bloom from running UV? (if the uv was killing beneficial bacteria then your phosphates and nitrates would jump feeding such a bloom or killing fish and corals)

6. lots of people run UV and are just as successful as those that don't. Its an extra layer of protection. If you are going to use it get a good system (like the Emperor Aquatics units) and get a Tom's Flow meter and make sure you are running the correct flow through the unit to optimize the filtration.


I agree with you, it feels as an extra layer protection :mrgreen:

[reefwars]

I think I have a phobia with ich after I saw how all my previous fish died from that terrible disease. The UV is just a thing that makes me feel more of an extra layer protection, but maybe not, just like you said it is not preventing ich.



it happens and it sucks thats for sure, at least now being through it once before you have a better understanding. how come you cant set up qt tank?? hypo is the best choice for prevention but as good as it is i dont do it, i dont buy a whole lot of fish anymore im a coral guy but when i do buy fish i prefer to buy off friends or at least healthy lfs i dont shop at dives and i buy fish suited for my tank. and i guess the old saying if its too good to be true it is lol you know when some low traffic lfs gets in a huge fish order and has something youve wanted for so long for so cheap so you cant resist and then a couple weeks later your kicking yourself in the butt for going there lol

i do feed garlic reguarly though and keep a low bio load so im guessing a combination of the 2 is whats working for me:)

[Casey8]

I used to have a quarantine tank but most of them died in a week - from stress - I guess. Most of fish that I wanted/bought were from LFS because I have no luck to compete with another canreefers here. If they were not gone too fast, it was because too far away not worth a ride just for a fish.