Ecotech Marine’s Radion XR30w wins the 2011 Reef Builders LED showdown

[unclesalty]

http://reefbuilders.com/2012/01/10/2011-led-showdow/

Kind of figured this would be a given but no way should the Maxpect Mazzara been one of the final two! I am a Radion user and a fan but will admit this kind of sounds bogus when the Vertex Illumina is not included in the competition???

[Aquattro]

Pretty sure I read somewhere that reviews were for paying reviewees...

[Casey8]

Pretty sure I read somewhere that reviews were for paying reviewees...

I'm not surprised.

[lastlight]

If you read there are comments from them on why they chose who they chose. Doesn't really matter it was pretty funny. Fixtures were randomly paired up (nano stuff against normal stuff etc). It was just an elaborate ad for Ecotech who is a paying customer there.

[Nano]

is it just me or do I not see AI SOL white or blue in there just the nano? I think I remember markoD doing a side by side with the radion (I think it was marko) and the sol was much bright with much better spread.

[lastlight]

They only chose stuff released brand new this year apparently. I'm sure they didn't want the Radion to have any competition from AI, Vertex or Orphek lol.

With all the politics between paid reviews, blogs, manufacturers... you name it... I'm 100% convinced that the most useful thing to us are each others personal experiences with all of thiss tuff.

[unclesalty]

They only chose stuff released brand new this year apparently. I'm sure they didn't want the Radion to have any competition from AI, Vertex or Orphek lol.

With all the politics between paid reviews, blogs, manufacturers... you name it... I'm 100% convinced that the most useful thing to us are each others personal experiences with all of thiss tuff.

Ok brand new in 2011 now that makes sence why there is no Vertex Illumina or AI Sol included.

[unclesalty]

They only chose stuff released brand new this year apparently. I'm sure they didn't want the Radion to have any competition from AI, Vertex or Orphek lol.

With all the politics between paid reviews, blogs, manufacturers... you name it... I'm 100% convinced that the most useful thing to us are each others personal experiences with all of thiss tuff.

The Radion doesn't have to worry about competition from the AI. The Vertex Illumina maybe but definately not the AI

[lastlight]

I didn't necessarily mean the AI is a better unit but with their price-point they are selling a ton of them. That's something for any competitor to worry about!

[MarkoD]

All reviews of the Radions are balogna.

No one who just spent thousands of dollars would admit that they made the wrong decision and say they the lights are no good.

Anyone getting paid to write a review, is obviously biased.

Any store or supplier is obviously going to push them to make money.



The only honest reviews (good or bad) will come after a couple years when the price drops and when the hype dies down.

[badAZZlars]

The Radion doesn't have to worry about competition from the AI. The Vertex Illumina maybe but definately not the AI

Why do you make this statement? There seem to be alot of people happy with the AI fixtures. Have you tried them both?

[cale262]

All reviews of the Radions are balogna.

No one who just spent thousands of dollars would admit that they made the wrong decision and say they the lights are no good.



On the other side of the coin, by the same above standard, anyone owning AI would also be a biased fanboi.

[cale262]

Why do you make this statement? There seem to be alot of people happy with the AI fixtures. Have you tried them both?

Anyone I've talked to whom has owned and used both has stated the Radion is the better of the two...including unclesalty.

[cale262]

This whole "Coke" vs "Pepsi" argument is getting old, to the point of being pathetic...That's all this has become. Buy the fixture you can afford with the features you require, enough said.

[mseepman]

AI has new units coming out...I'm surprised that they have taken this long. I saw them at MACNA and they were quite nice. Used the XM-L chips, nice software and everything.

I also really liked the look of the Maxspect. I know there's been good and bad reviews from purchasers...but the same could be said of the Radion.

[MarkoD]

I have both radion and ai at the moment and I can truly say I'd rather have 2 ai over 1 radion.

[badAZZlars]

This whole "Coke" vs "Pepsi" argument is getting old, to the point of being pathetic...That's all this has become. Buy the fixture you can afford with the features you require, enough said.

Agreed, but i'm waiting on the AI Phoenix/Vega to come out before I make any decisions on LED's. Should apparently be soon but the release keeps getting pushed.

[cale262]

I have both radion and ai at the moment and I can truly say I'd rather have 2 ai over 1 radion.


And that's your personal choice...For me the AI doesn't offer any of the features I want (wireless, spectrums etc.), That's my choice and not a mistake as you previously elude to...given the choice again, with the currently available fixtures I would still choose the Radion over the AI product. As a matter of fact I just bought two more Radion fixtures.

[unclesalty]

Why do you make this statement? There seem to be alot of people happy with the AI fixtures. Have you tried them both?

Yes I have owned them both and I also own a par meter! Nothing wrong with the AI but the Radion is just a better all-round fixture with nicer spectrum and features.

[MarkoD]

I don't want to argue. But I've had the radion for over a week now. And all those "features" that it has seems like they were made for 12 year olds to think they're cool. I still think thunderstorms are pointless and stupid.

My main concern is to grow corals. Not having a disco in my fish tank

[MarkoD]

But youre right. It's a personal choice so no point in arguing

[cale262]

...And all those "features" that it has seems like they were made for 12 year olds to think they're cool. I still think thunderstorms are pointless and stupid.

...


You don't want to argue so you Troll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)) instead...???

Features I look for; Wireless connectivity, Spectrum choices to include RGB, etc.

[doch]

How is that 'Trolling'? He has a 100% relevant opinion based on his experience after having owned and tried BOTH units. I agree with Marko 100%... to me the Thunderstorms and technocolor are novelty. I have the Sols. I have the thunderstorms enabled... they amuse me. As for the red and green... meah. We'll see if it proves usefull.

AI will have wireless connectivity coming out at the same time as the new phoenix. You really need this??? How often do you adjust your lights? I've now got mine ramped up almost to where I want them, and don't really plan on touching them after that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you need to connect to one ofthe radions via USB cable? If that's the case, that WIRE kind of takes the 'less' out of 'wireless'.... No?

Anyways, they're both good fixtures, I own and am happy with the Sols.

The only thing that really impresses me about the Radions is the Storm mode interface to the MP's... but I run Tunzes, so no benefit.

[cale262]

The Troll is quite obvious, someone posts that they bought the Radion for the features, then the troll is "And all those "features" that it has seems like they were made for 12 year olds to think they're cool."

Tell me that was not meant to be an inflammatory comment.

100% Troll...

[cale262]

...How often do you adjust your lights? I've now got mine ramped up almost to where I want them, and don't really plan on touching them after that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you need to connect to one ofthe radions via USB cable? If that's the case, that WIRE kind of takes the 'less' out of 'wireless'.... No?

.


I want the wireless to run the lighting on several different tanks all running the same lighting in different rooms as I now currently run my MP40wES's. Wireless IMO is also cleaner looking over my tank.

RBG is mostly for my own enjoyment and veiwing pleasure.

[sphelps]

Pretty sure AIs can connect directly to profilux which will enable endless amounts of features including thunderstorms, tunze AND vortech connecting, true wireless control via iphone/other, and even the ability to add additional led bars of various colors. Not sure if Radions can connect to different controllers which limits them in the long run.

I own neither but I do own an LED light with various extra colors, the reds and greens do very little for aesthetics, mostly they just increase algae growth. The novelty of it were's off extremely fast.

[cale262]

...Not sure if Radions can connect to different controllers which limits them in the long run.

...

The Radion is a new player on the market, the software is still evolving... I control my MP40wES's with my Apex wireless controller, Radion is not far behind and will work from the same controller.

The reds on my Radion remind me of the fiji purple T5's I used to run and have missed since switching to LED, they make an obvious differance to me, making the pinks and purples really pop. I haven't seen any excess algae growth since switching from the Pacific Sun 200W Blues/white LED fixture.

[Borderjumper]

I really do like my Radions. The 12 hour "natural" program is sweet, and since I have mp40's I like the way the lights have them go into sleep mode at dark time.

I can not wrap my head around the software tho. For what ever reason I can't program them to do anything.. Art can every time first try:razz:

[MarkoD]

I keep getting positive rep points, finally someone saying something.

Wireless connectivity is another "noob" feature. Who cares if they talk wirelessly if you still have cords and that big dumb ballast. And the wireless connectivity with the pumps is a novelty too.

And the fact that you need a laptop or computer close enough to your lights is lame. While they were making it wireless, why not wireless connectivity to a computer?

Spectrum? Like I've said before, the green and red LEDs are so insignificant compared to the white and blue that they are not even noticeable when the whites and blues are on.

The only cool thing I've found with the radions is adding red to the moonlight so it looks more purple...... But that also got kinda old after a few days

[cale262]

Noob feature??? what's that?

[MarkoD]

more name calling...classy.

Name calling? Who did I call what name?

[Nano]

lol wow this thread is getting interesting

Kein, can I have some popcorn? :lol:

[MarkoD]

Noob feature??? what's that?

It's a feature that someone who's "new" to the hobby or not in the hobby at all would think is cool, when in fact it's a novelty and pointless.

For examples: lightning storm. All your friends that don't know much about reef tanks would say "wow, that's so amazing".....

[Aquattro]

Guys, let's just do the "agree to disagree" thing, ok?

[Aquattro]

lol wow this thread is getting interesting

Kein, can I have some popcorn? :lol:

Useless post....

[MarkoD]

But youre right. It's a personal choice so no point in arguing

+1

[Zoaelite]

I agree with the whole BS Reef Builders scandal, regardless I own 6 of the Radions and have had improved growth in color over the last 2 months (compared to my halides/t5 combo). Marko your seriously wrong on your interpretation of peoples reactions, again like previously stated if I dropped 5 grand on lighting and thought it was garbage I would not hesitate to say so.

The results speak for themselves, these are on the sand bed of my 22" tank with the Radions mounted about 8" above the surface.

Got these paly's on 11-03-2011, added the Radions about 3 days after this.
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/7093/img4396i.jpg (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/img4396i.jpg/)

This is a 2 month growth shot.
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/4061/mg5602a.jpg (http://img31.imageshack.us/i/mg5602a.jpg/)

Take a look at the back ground corals too, easy to notice growth all around.

[MarkoD]

The only reason I even say anything is because some person on the Internet might one day read these posts before making a decision and I wouldnt want someone to make a decision without seeing both sides. It's easy to be persuaded by all the spec sheets and fancy graphics and charts and paid reviews

[MarkoD]

Why am I having different results with my radion. A month with ai sols and everything was good. I put a radion on the right sideof my tank and kept ai sols on the left. I have my sols at 90% power and radion at 65% and wall my Zoe's under the radion have been closed for about a week now. I can't even tell if they're alive.

Last night i put radion on the far left and moved a sol to the far right. I'm gonna give it a week to see if anything rebounds

I agree with the whole BS Reef Builders scandal, regardless I own 6 of the Radions and have had improved growth in color over the last 2 months (compared to my halides/t5 combo). Marko your seriously wrong on your interpretation of peoples reactions, again like previously stated if I dropped 5 grand on lighting and thought it was garbage I would not hesitate to say so.

The results speak for themselves, these are on the sand bed of my 22" tank with the Radions mounted about 8" above the surface.

Honestly I'm jealous of your tank and your results. But can not recreate the same results with my radion

Got these paly's on 11-03-2011, added the Radions about 3 days after this.
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/7093/img4396i.jpg (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/img4396i.jpg/)

This is a 2 month growth shot.
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/4061/mg5602a.jpg (http://img31.imageshack.us/i/mg5602a.jpg/)

Take a look at the back ground corals too, easy to notice growth all around.

[MarkoD]

Also I never intended to come across as saying that radions are garbage. I'm just saying that from my limited experience I've noticed more benefit from 2 ai sols than with 1 radion

[cale262]

Why am I having different results with my radion. A month with ai sols and everything was good. I put a radion on the right sideof my tank and kept ai sols on the left. I have my sols at 90% power and radion at 65% and wall my Zoe's under the radion have been closed for about a week now. I can't even tell if they're alive.

Last night i put radion on the far left and moved a sol to the far right. I'm gonna give it a week to see if anything rebounds


Maybe you have too much light coming from the Radion?...I went from a 200W PS BP LED fixture, to the two Radions...I ran the PS @ 90%, I put the Radions over the tank initially at 90% @ the same height and burnt a couple coral right away...I now run My Radions at a max Of 60% for about 3 hrs a day... everything is growing fast and happy.

[Zoaelite]

Why am I having different results with my radion. A month with ai sols and everything was good. I put a radion on the right sideof my tank and kept ai sols on the left. I have my sols at 90% power and radion at 65% and wall my Zoe's under the radion have been closed for about a week now. I can't even tell if they're alive.

Those are peculiar results as the PAR test's I have read rank the AI to be higher than the Radion (Having the Radion @ a lower intensity should only compound this effect). If less light is getting to the zoas then they should become more expanded, they shouldn't close due to photo shock.

Anything else change in the tank or anything that could be irritating them? Have any photos?

Gah, I need a PAR meter to get some actual numbers here as what the box say's and what others are measuring seem to be different.

[unclesalty]

Also I never intended to come across as saying that radions are garbage. I'm just saying that from my limited experience I've noticed more benefit from 2 ai sols than with 1 radion

I am not saying AI are garbage either. I was going to go with Vertex Illumina or AI until the Radions came into the picture and myself like many others prefer the Radion over the AI. Different strokes for different folks I guess one could say.

[MarkoD]

Those are peculiar results as the PAR test's I have read rank the AI to be higher than the Radion (Having the Radion @ a lower intensity should only compound this effect). If less light is getting to the zoas then they should become more expanded, they shouldn't close due to photo shock.

Anything else change in the tank or anything that could be irritating them? Have any photos?

Gah, I need a PAR meter to get some actual numbers here as what the box say's and what others are measuring seem to be different.

I figured since radions are almost double the power of ai I'd lower it in the beginning. But I have Zoas in the tank just totally under the sols and they're wide open and expanding.

I guess in a few days I'll have my answer now that I've swapped the lights

I'll take photos tonight

[MarkoD]

Maybe you have too much light coming from the Radion?...I went from a 200W PS BP LED fixture, to the two Radions...I ran the PS @ 90%, I put the Radions over the tank initially at 90% @ the same height and burnt a couple coral right away...I now run My Radions at a max Of 60% for about 3 hrs a day... everything is growing fast and happy.

Before any LEDs I had 4x250 mh and 4x 39 t5

[cale262]

Gah, I need a PAR meter to get some actual numbers here as what the box say's and what others are measuring seem to be different.

I was going to buy a PAR meter but now I'm looking for a Spectrograph so I can measure the PUR which doesn't show up with the PAR meter...

[cale262]

Before any LEDs I had 4x250 mh and 4x 39 t5


I was also running 250w MH and T5 before switching to the PS LED,...I started the PS fixture @ 50% and slowly worked my way up to the 90%...then I assumed the Radion was less W Than the PS and there should be no shock when switching the two LED fixtures as previously stated above...I was wrong... LED's are really new in this hobby and from what I have read, we are making a mistake by measuring LED fixtures with PAR....PAR undergrades the blue light spectrums and focus's more on the white/yellows...Higher end LED's used for reef lighting have no yellow as fould in traditional lighting (MH, T5, PC etc) thus measuring in PAR is old tech and not the correct tool for the job when measuring LED...this is also why less expensive 1W LED show more PAR, they have more yellow spectrum to measure yet this yellow is not usable light in reef corals...I think we'll see more about PUR (as oposed to PAR) as the LED fixtures become more common place in this hobby...


Stolen quote:
PUR (Photosynthetically Usable Radiation) also known as "Useful Light Energy" is what concerns us as aquarium keepers even considerably more than PAR in providing correct lighting (yet provides a lot of confusion, especially when considering LED Lights).
PUR is that fraction of PAR that is absorbed by zooxanthellae photopigments thereby stimulating photosynthesis. As noted above, PUR are those wavelengths falling between 400-550nm and 620-740nm.
Generally a Spectrograph is used to rate PUR (these are much more expensive than a PAR meter, with the result of many falsely considering PAR and ignoring the more important PUR.)

[Nano]

I was also running 250w MH and T5 before switching to the PS LED,...I started the PS fixture @ 50% and slowly worked my way up to the 90%...then I assumed the Radion was less W Than the PS and there should be no shock when switching the two LED fixtures as previously stated above...I was wrong... LED's are really new in this hobby and from what I have read, we are making a mistake by measuring LED fixtures with PAR....PAR undergrades the blue light spectrums and focus's more on the white/yellows...Higher end LED's used for reef lighting have no yellow as fould in traditional lighting (MH, T5, PC etc) thus measuring in PAR is old tech and not the correct tool for the job when measuring LED...this is also why less expensive 1W LED show more PAR, they have more yellow spectrum to measure yet this yellow is not usable light in reef corals...I think we'll see more about PUR (as oposed to PAR) as the LED fixtures become more common place in this hobby...


Stolen quote:

So how do you really measure the light then if par is irrelevant? I am just wondering cause I am getting an AI for my new tank, and going from t5's to AI will be a huge change, I know I have to start it low, but how low is low lol? might seem like a dumb question

[Zoaelite]

Thanks for the post Cale, that clears up some misconceptions in my head!

[doch]

It's a feature that someone who's "new" to the hobby or not in the hobby at all would think is cool, when in fact it's a novelty and pointless.

For examples: lightning storm. All your friends that don't know much about reef tanks would say "wow, that's so amazing".....

It's been the opposite in my world. Every person that I've demonstrated the lightning storms to has looked at me like there's something wrong. Then when I explain, several have asked if the fish are harmed by this. Uhhh.... pretty sure there is lightning in nature.

[MarkoD]

It's been the opposite in my world. Every person that I've demonstrated the lightning storms to has looked at me like there's something wrong. Then when I explain, several have asked if the fish are harmed by this. Uhhh.... pretty sure there is lightning in nature.

Ive had people ask if it's doing that cuz the bulbs are burning out.
Lol

[Nano]

from the thunderstorms? remind me not to use that feature

[cale262]

So how do you really measure the light then if par is irrelevant? I am just wondering cause I am getting an AI for my new tank, and going from t5's to AI will be a huge change, I know I have to start it low, but how low is low lol? might seem like a dumb question

I think it's really a case by case basis and there is no easy answer unless you have a Spectrograph. Start with considering what you currently house in your glass box atm, either way, popular consensus say to ease your system into the new lighting, watch your corals for undesired changes while increasing the intensity of the LED fixture.

The next big question comes when adding new coral to the system, this is why I’m going to use the same lighting on my frag tank as the DT, this way I can ramp the intensity up and match the photo period while acclimatizing the coral/frag to match my DT.

[MarkoD]

here are pictures.

first picture is the zoa colony under the ai sols
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2012-01-12at50007PM.png


and this one use to be a colony but since i put the radion over that side of the tank they've all disappeared. all i've got is one here and there and theyre closed up into little balls

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2012-01-12at50018PM.png

[Nano]

yikes that sucks Marko, I wonder if the radion was too much for them?

[MarkoD]

yikes that sucks Marko, I wonder if the radion was too much for them?

it was only 65% power

they were previously under 90% power ai

[Nano]

maybe another reason then? I have heard zoo's can melt sometimes

[Aqua-Digital]

Radions are twice the power of Ai's and full spectrum.

start at 40% and work your way up over two weeks.

Under Ai's I never got any colour this is one miracle change since adding a Radion

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i159/monitors-direct/IMG_7051.jpg

it has now gone onto to be super dark purple:mrgreen:

[fishytime]

here are pictures.

first picture is the zoa colony under the ai sols
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2012-01-12at50007PM.png


and this one use to be a colony but since i put the radion over that side of the tank they've all disappeared. all i've got is one here and there and theyre closed up into little balls

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2012-01-12at50018PM.png



ummmmmmm you have a moorish idol in your tank.....they have been know to eat polyps


the feature I like about the radions is......you can start the morning off with the red spectrum (which BTW is beneficial for you coral ) to simulate a sunrise effect, then have the spectrum change to natural sunlight during the day when your not home to see the yellow-ness, then have the color change to more of a blue in the evening when you are home to see tank.....I'll agree that the thunderstorm feature is more for the user than the reef

[MarkoD]

ummmmmmm you have a moorish idol in your tank.....they have been know to eat polyps


the feature I like about the radions is......you can start the morning off with the red spectrum (which BTW is beneficial for you coral ) to simulate a sunrise effect, then have the spectrum change to natural sunlight during the day when your not home to see the yellow-ness, then have the color change to more of a blue in the evening when you are home to see tank.....I'll agree that the thunderstorm feature is more for the user than the reef

I've never seen it pick at any polyps. But even if it did, why would he only go for the ones under the radions?

Before the radion, these same zoas were under the ai and open all day.

And how do you figure that 12 watts of red LEDs are beneficial to corals?

This weekend I'm going to try this out. I'm gonna have the reds on only, for the first 5 hours of the day. And I'll take a time lapse video of a zoa frag to see if it'll even react (open,close,twitch) at the red light

[Nano]

I've never seen it pick at any polyps. But even if it did, why would he only go for the ones under the radions?

Before the radion, these same zoas were under the ai and open all day.

And how do you figure that 12 watts of red LEDs are beneficial to corals?

This weekend I'm going to try this out. I'm gonna have the reds on only, for the first 5 hours of the day. And I'll take a time lapse video of a zoa frag to see if it'll even react (open,close,twitch) at the red light

that'll be a very interesting video! I love time lapse haha.

[Aqua-Digital]

Before the radion, these same zoas were under the ai and open all day.

As I said above the Radion is double the power and full spectrum totally different beast. I loved my Ai's at full bore, the radion is way brighter at 130w vs 70w i run one radion now where as before i was running two ai's

[fishytime]

I've never seen it pick at any polyps. But even if it did, why would he only go for the ones under the radions?

Before the radion, these same zoas were under the ai and open all day.

And how do you figure that 12 watts of red LEDs are beneficial to corals?

This weekend I'm going to try this out. I'm gonna have the reds on only, for the first 5 hours of the day. And I'll take a time lapse video of a zoa frag to see if it'll even react (open,close,twitch) at the red light

I never said that running all red would give great results, or be the miracle coral growth formula (in fact it wont).....but you said that. the red and green LEDs were useless, which they arent.....the red spectum gets filtered out of the water very quickly so deeper water corals tend to not take to red very well, but shallower water corals will benefit from lower color temperatures....the radion provides probably the closest to full spectrum lighting as wee can get atm

[MarkoD]

I never said that running all red would give great results, or be the miracle coral growth formula (in fact it wont).....but you said that. the red and green LEDs were useless, which they arent.....the red spectum gets filtered out of the water very quickly so deeper water corals tend to not take to red very well, but shallower water corals will benefit from lower color temperatures....the radion provides probably the closest to full spectrum lighting as wee can get atm

Thats exactly what I've read. Sea water partials absorb red and green light.

So how deep do you figure red light from 12 watts of led will penetrate?

I just want to see if a coral will recognize the fact that light is available

[unclesalty]

As I said above the Radion is double the power and full spectrum totally different beast. I loved my Ai's at full bore, the radion is way brighter at 130w vs 70w i run one radion now where as before i was running two ai's


This is why the Radion was a no brainer choice for me as the price works out to be close to the same by the time you buy 2 AI's. Also no wires, nicer looking, better spectrum and better programming and features. The Radion still has some bugs to be worked out and things added to software but I'd live with them the way they are right now, no problem whatsoever!

[MarkoD]

This is why the Radion was a no brainer choice for me as the price works out to be close to the same by the time you buy 2 AI's. Also no wires, nicer looking, better spectrum and better programming and features. The Radion still has some bugs to be worked out and things added to software but I'd live with them the way they are right now, no problem whatsoever!

there is no way that 1 light source can be better than 2 light sources.

with 2 AI sols i can light a coral from 2 directions with 140 watts of power and you can only light it from 1 direction.

and with this:

• 8x Cree XP-G Cool White LEDs run at 5W each
• 8x Cree XP-E Blue LEDs run at 3W each
• 10x Cree XP-E Royal Blue LEDs run at 3W each
• 4x Cree XP-E Green LEDs run at 3W each
• 4x Osram Oslon SSL Hyper Red LEDs run at 3W each

when added up, radions are only 118 watts. and when you subtract the 12 watts of red and 12 watts of green (which are not proven yet to make any kind of difference to coral growth) you're only at 94 watts of proven coral growing power.

even if red and green are beneficial to corals, the penetration and usable light at a reasonable depth would be almost nothing

[MarkoD]

they also both advertise full spectrum.

sol

http://www.aquaillumination.com/img/perf_spectral.png

radion

http://ecotechmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/radionspectrum-right.png

[gregzz4]

With all the politics between paid reviews, blogs, manufacturers... you name it... I'm 100% convinced that the most useful thing to us are each others personal experiences with all of thiss tuff.
Hear Hear

[unclesalty]

there is no way that 1 light source can be better than 2 light sources.

with 2 AI sols i can light a coral from 2 directions with 140 watts of power and you can only light it from 1 direction.

and with this:

• 8x Cree XP-G Cool White LEDs run at 5W each
• 8x Cree XP-E Blue LEDs run at 3W each
• 10x Cree XP-E Royal Blue LEDs run at 3W each
• 4x Cree XP-E Green LEDs run at 3W each
• 4x Osram Oslon SSL Hyper Red LEDs run at 3W each

when added up, radions are only 118 watts. and when you subtract the 12 watts of red and 12 watts of green (which are not proven yet to make any kind of difference to coral growth) you're only at 94 watts of proven coral growing power.

even if red and green are beneficial to corals, the penetration and usable light at a reasonable depth would be almost nothing

No way was 2 AI's enough for my 120g for my liking from what I saw. IMO 3 or 4 AI's for sure would of been enough. 2 Radions look awesome!

[MarkoD]

No way was 2 AI's enough for my 120g for my liking from what I saw. IMO 3 or 4 AI's for sure would of been enough. 2 Radions look awesome!

Yeah so if you're comparing price. You can get 2 ai for 1 radion.

And with 2 ai you'd get better spread and more power and "larger" light source with less shadow. So on a 120 gallon you'd run 4

You'd sacrifice the red and green tho

[Nano]

I'm with you on this one Marko, I mean for better spread (sleaker look IMO) and price wise, AI takes the cake, and if the red and green are really that important long term, there are tons of led strip lights that could be retro fitted, though I dont know how necessary it really is. I understand they have different spectrums and diferent spectrums have diferent funtions on different corals lol. I'd personally get 2 AI before I got one Radion.

Sh*t I'm at the top of the page again.. sry...

[unclesalty]

Yeah so if you're comparing price. You can get 2 ai for 1 radion.

And with 2 ai you'd get better spread and more power and "larger" light source with less shadow. So on a 120 gallon you'd run 4

You'd sacrifice the red and green tho

From what I have seen the red and the green on them seem to give the Radions such a nicer colour even tho they are such little wattage

[unclesalty]

I'm with you on this one Marko, I mean for better spread (sleaker look IMO) and price wise, AI takes the cake, and if the red and green are really that important long term, there are tons of led strip lights that could be retro fitted, though I dont know how necessary it really is. I understand they have different spectrums and diferent spectrums have diferent funtions on different corals lol. I'd personally get 2 AI before I got one Radion.

Sh*t I'm at the top of the page again.. sry...

Personally I think the total complete opposite! The AI's are big thick and bulky with cables everywhere- no comparison in looks!

The AI's have better spread? hmm I must of bought a faulty par meter! lol

[Nano]

not trying to arue with you cause I really dont have the knowledge to do so, I'm just going from what I have read and seen in person. lol if that makes sense. And after seeing the comparison between AI and halide and AI and Radion online here, to me, the AI looks a bit brighter, but I'm not stating that is is for the record ;)

[Nano]

also I remember seeing on here earlier about par meters not being 100% accurate for leds cause they measure the yellow light? I could be mistaken

[unclesalty]

not trying to arue with you cause I really dont have the knowledge to do so, I'm just going from what I have read and seen in person. lol if that makes sense. And after seeing the comparison between AI and halide and AI and Radion online here, to me, the AI looks a bit brighter, but I'm not stating that is is for the record ;)


I am not a journeyman light guy either but you are right the AI had a bit better par but it spotlights and then you don't get the proper coverage compared to the Radion

[unclesalty]

also I remember seeing on here earlier about par meters not being 100% accurate for leds cause they measure the yellow light? I could be mistaken

Yes you are right as they are not accurate with LEDS in comparison to MH, but I compared LED readings vs LED readings

[Nano]

I think the spot lighting might be from how you suspend it though partially, it seems the SOL are usually mounted a bit higher then radions cause the have lenses, I'm not sure that radions do, so the light doesnt get the spotlight effect with the Radion

[intarsiabox]

I'm with you on this one Marko, I mean for better spread (sleaker look IMO) and price wise, AI takes the cake, and if the red and green are really that important long term, there are tons of led strip lights that could be retro fitted, though I dont know how necessary it really is. I understand they have different spectrums and diferent spectrums have diferent funtions on different corals lol. I'd personally get 2 AI before I got one Radion.

Sh*t I'm at the top of the page again.. sry...

If you want to add red and green LEDs to an AI set up just go onto modularled's web site and they have the kits for under $40 and using all Cree bulbs instead of lesser makes. If you don't like it or it just proves to be an algae producer you're only out $40 not an extra $400. The only reason to spend a lot of money on lights is to grow coral otherwise any cheap fixture would do. You can see pictures and tank journals from hundreds of successful coral growers that have been using the AIs for years and I'm sure at one point in the future the Radion's will prove to grow coral equally well but I doubt one will grow coral better than the other. They are both nice products and you can't really go wrong with either one. And if you can find a Radion that doesn't have a power cord like the ugly cords on the AI as pointed out on an earlier post then even better, it must just kill batteries though!

[Nano]

My Ai you wont see the cords, cause the arm will have holes drilled hopefully large enough to fish the wires through. outta sight outta mind.

but +1 you hit the nail there

[Skimmerking]

Boys what about reef tech and this python led pendant are they any good

[MarkoD]

I am not a journeyman light guy either but you are right the AI had a bit better par but it spotlights and then you don't get the proper coverage compared to the Radion

heres the spread comparison i did a few days ago

1 Sol Fixture on 80% power
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2012-01-05at64559PM.png


2 Sol Fixtures on 80% power
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2012-01-05at64710PM.png

1 Radion on 80% power
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2012-01-05at64510PM.png

[Nano]

^ thats the one.
Yeah the radion has just about equal spread as 2 sols maybe even as the one

[cale262]

Boys what about reef tech and this python led pendant are they any good


Reeftech was a big letdown as they never came through with the software as promised...

I was happy with the Python right up to the point where it started having driver issues...no assistance was given by the distributor to get any warranty work doen, so no more euro-junk for me...the PS is now an $1800 paper weight.

This was the big drive to buy a North American product and ecotech has a strong name and rep, I believe even if the Canadian distributor flakes out on me again, at least I don't have to worry about Ecotech leaving me stranded as Pacific Sun did. I also don't have to deal with the English/Polish language barrier which was extremely frustrating when communicating with both PS and RT.

[Nano]

Hey marko what are the odds of taking the same kind of shots you did, only use the AI sol on say the left side again, and the for the Comparison, use the Radion on the left side as well, then you can see a direct difference

[fishytime]

Boys what about reef tech and this python led pendant are they any good

oh, now dont go bringing reeftech into the fray:wink:......reeftech has a wider variety of fixtures to choose from......ranging from one that would compare in wattage to the radion for somewhere in between the cost of a sol and a radion, all the way up to a beast of a light that would blow most other LEDs out of the water for around the price of a vertex 260....the software and programing is similar to the radion but not as good IME.....wired, unit to unit.....wireless to the computer.....

[cale262]

Honestly, the above pictures have very little credibility IMHO. In order to show anything they would have to be taken with the lights in the same location over the same scape by an unbiased party.

[MarkoD]

oh, now dont go bringing reeftech into the fray:wink:......reeftech has a wider variety of fixtures to choose from......ranging from one that would compare in wattage to the radion for somewhere in between the cost of a sol and a radion, all the way up to a beast of a light that would blow most other LEDs out of the water for around a vertex 260....the software and programing is similar to the radion but not as good IME.....wired, unit to unit.....wireless to the computer.....

wireless to the computer would be awesome.

[MarkoD]

Hey marko what are the odds of taking the same kind of shots you did, only use the AI sol on say the left side again, and the for the Comparison, use the Radion on the left side as well, then you can see a direct difference

ill do it tomorrow, getting sleepy tonight

[cale262]

oh, now dont go bringing reeftech into the fray:wink:......reeftech has a wider variety of fixtures to choose from......ranging from one that would compare in wattage to the radion for somewhere in between the cost of a sol and a radion, all the way up to a beast of a light that would blow most other LEDs out of the water for around a vertex 260....the software and programing is similar to the radion but not as good IME.....wired, unit to unit.....wireless to the computer.....


I bought a Reeftech Prometheus fixture and it was a huge waste of my time and money. Dealing with them is painful to say the least, They promise everything and come through with nothing. I wouldn't wish them on anyone.

[lastlight]

The radion appears to have a little bit more spread than 1 sol... certainly not as much as 2 if we go from those photos. I'm curious tho about the spread in the other direction.

But only mildly curious because I actually love my halide/t5 combo :biggrin: