Sodium Nitrate

[coolhandgoose]

Does anyone know where to get sodium nitrate from in Calgary? I'm running an ultra low nutrient system with bio pellets and thinking that this may be contributing to my Dino problem. I've heard of people raising their nitrate levels to about 2-3ppm helps to get rid of them. Figured it can't hurt. Failing a spot to find sodium nitrate how about potassium nitrate (saltpeter)?

[ScubaSteve]

Becareful with potassium nitrate and that can trigger a whole set of other problems. If you want your nitrates higher, I'd say feed more. Your livestock will generate more waste and be happier.

Better solution is to just relax a bit of your regime. I vodka/mb7 dose and got hit by dinos just before Christmas. Stopped dozing for a week and restarted at half my dose. Dinos gone! And my nitrates are still zero.

[toytech]

If i could box nitrates i would send you a CRATE FULL i have lots . If you run filter socks you could wait an extra day before changing them , or run a bit of filter floss and let it get dirty to generate some nitrates.

[Delphinus]

If you have dinos you have my sympathies. They are an awful problem to get rid of. I've had (and seen) dinos hit tanks both of low nutrients and not-so-low nutrients .. I'm a bit skeptical that raising nitrates will really help you rid your tank of dinos. IMO the only thing that works is going lights out for a few days and starving them out that way.

Diatoms on the other hand .. if it's diatoms then maybe just relaxing the regime as suggested (or feed more :lol: which always seems to work for me in producing nitrates!!!)

Good luck!

[coolhandgoose]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll try feeding a bunch more and see if that does the trick, I usually only feed about every three days. I'll step it up to every day and see what happens.

I've been battling these guys for about 2 months and haven't seen any improvement. I tried the lights out and that didn't work. I've heard raising ph can help but mine runs at 8.3 in the morning and about 8.4 at night. I even stopped doing water changes in an effort to raise nitrate but to no avail.

It's really strange too, it'll start off in the morning as a brown dusting, get thicker into a brown mat on the sand bed and about an hour two before lights out it turns into a stringy snotty mess. It's not affecting the rocks and corals too badly, mostly the sand bed looks like crap.

I'm tempted to stop the bio pellets but don't want my water to get too out of hand.

[reefermadness]

The whole point of running biopellets is so you can feed more IMO. High import of food and high export of waste products is the way to get good colours.

[coolhandgoose]

You're probably right, I'm gonna start feeding more to see what happens. Tank can't look any worse at this point :mrgreen:

[Lethbridge]

Ever thought to give hydrogen peroxide a try? I've used it for a few different applications and it works great. Typically you dose 1ml/10 gal for anywhere from 7-14 days, you should see it start to clear up in a few days of use and your glass will stay cleaner and your skimmer will skim heavier. H2O2 doesn't affect any corals, fish, inverts etc, however your Zoa's will close upon dosing but then open up after some adjustment time.

[Werbo]

Stopping your carbon source (ie biopellets) is pretty standard advise if you are dealing with dino's.

Over an 18 month period I tried all the mentioned remedies with no success. After 18 months I finally removed my sandbed and they are gone.

In the summer I'll try re-introducing sand to the tank.

[coolhandgoose]

What concentration of h2o2 did u use? I haven't researched that technique so I'll have to look it up.
I fed an entire cube of emerald entree today, a bunch of Acan plus for corals and some kent coral grow formula. Tomorrow I'm going to add a bunch of pellet food and some plankton. I also sucked a bunch of dinos out today off the sand bed.

[Lethbridge]

What concentration of h2o2 did u use? I haven't researched that technique so I'll have to look it up.

just the typical 3% you find at walmart for like $1, it works wonders on dino's

[fishytime]

do some research if your gonna try hydrogen peroxide directly to your tank.....it can have some serious consequences if not done right...

[ScubaSteve]

do some research if your gonna try hydrogen peroxide directly to your tank.....it can have some serious consequences if not done right...

I lokoed into this when I had dinos show up and eventually I decided it wasn't worth the risk. I stopped dosing for a week and skipped a waterchange (as water changes can actually fuel dinos). Dinos were gone in a week and a started dosing again after that without issue. I seriously recommend just taking the reactor offline for a week.

[Lethbridge]

do some research if your gonna try hydrogen peroxide directly to your tank.....it can have some serious consequences if not done right...

Just out of curiosity sake, what are some of the consequences of dosing H2O2? I dose everyday and have had no bad side effect. I dose 15ml in a 100g system everyday.

[coolhandgoose]

From what I've read so far is dosing too much can cause bleeding gills and can damage some SPS corals. The recommended amount is 1ml/10gal. I'm out of town for the next few days so my wife is in charge of the over feeding for me right now.

[naesco]

Aren't there fish and coral in this tank!

Stop and throw out what you are using and do so decent water changes.

[coolhandgoose]

Aren't there fish and coral in this tank!

Stop and throw out what you are using and do so decent water changes.

Seriously? You think people who have Dino's haven't thought of this little gem? What works for one person might not work for another.

[naesco]

I am seriously concerned in light of the previous posts of your experimenting with these chemicals while there is livestock in your tank. It is not what works for one may not work for another. You should not be taking that risk
Sorry!

[ScubaSteve]

WHOAH!... Ok, let's not get into a ****ing match...

I agree with Naesco though. Take your time before jumping into H2O2. I use H2O2 in water treatment research because when exposed to intense light (especially light with any UV) it breaks down into hydroxyl radicals which will obliterate, well, everything. They're like the Chuck Norris of water treatment...

Before you try H2O2, try shutting off the biopellets reactor for a week or so, then start going again; there is no harm in that? If the dinos are still just as bad after that, then consider H2O2. If your nutrients are so low that the biopellets are giving you dinos, your corals are probably on a knife's edge in terms of health. They are healthy and looking good but because they don't have much "fat" (excess zooxanthellae)... kinda like Supermodel corals... If the H2O2 does do them any harm they might not have the resources to fight it off or bounce back. This is a common problem with biopellets and subsequent crashes.

You need to go slow and address the issue that causing your problem rather than throwing more things into the mix. It's like holding a running chainsaw in one hand to keep you balanced while holding a nuclear bomb one handed in the other.

[coolhandgoose]

I understand you post and thank you for your concern. Sodium nitrate is a legitimate way of trying to raise nitrate levels in the tank. Hydrogen peroxide is not like some chemical poison that is going to destroy everything. Now if you pour a whole botle in your tank, yes you can expect the tank to crash. From the research I've been doing so far this is very similar to using an ozonator.

[coolhandgoose]

Haha, thanks for that. I think the suggestion of turning off the reactor for a bit might help. I'll hold off on the peroxide treatment and see what happens.

[coolhandgoose]

so I ditched the pellets and skimmer and built a scrubber based on the new guidelines. My tank looks like crap right now, the corals are only about half open. I did a water change yesterday and planning another one tomorrow. I'm not sure if quitting pellets cold turkey like that is a shock to the system or what?
I'm hoping this scrubber will help as this is very frustrating.

Here is the scrubber next to an adult beverage for size comparison.

http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab227/coolhandgoose/photo1-16.jpg

It's lit from both sides.
http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab227/coolhandgoose/photo2-16.jpg

[soapy]

Does anyone know where to get sodium nitrate from in Calgary? I'm running an ultra low nutrient system with bio pellets and thinking that this may be contributing to my Dino problem. I've heard of people raising their nitrate levels to about 2-3ppm helps to get rid of them. Figured it can't hurt. Failing a spot to find sodium nitrate how about potassium nitrate (saltpeter)?

I have heard people sometimes use Seachem Nitrogen to boost their nitrates.

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/FlourishNitrogen.html

[coolhandgoose]

Thanks. I've abandoned that plan though and trying the scrubber route.

[reefwars]

if you want to raise your nitrates just come over to my place and take 20g of water:p

[reefwars]

how big is your tank??

scrubber looks good but i believe its recommended 1 sq/inch per gallon not sure how big your tank is though:)

[coolhandgoose]

I thought it was small too but here are the new sizing guidelines from santamonica.

New Scrubber Sizing Guideline (Sept 2011)

Scrubbers will now be sized according to feeding. Nutrients "in" (feeding) must equal nutrients "out" (scrubber growth), no matter how many gallons you have. So...

An example VERTICAL waterfall screen size is 3 X 4 inches = 12 square inches of screen (7.5 X 10 cm = 75 sq cm) with a total of 12 real watts (not equivalent) of fluorescent light for 18 hours a day. If all 12 watts are on one side, it is a 1-sided screen. If 6 watts are on each side, it is a 2-sided screen, but the total is still 12 watts for 18 hours a day. This screen size and wattage should be able to handle the following amounts of daily feeding:

1 frozen cube per day (2-sided screen), or
1/2 frozen cube per day (1-sided screen), or
10 pinches of flake food per day (2-sided screen), or
5 pinches of flake food per day (1-sided screen), or
10 square inches (60 sq cm) of nori per day (2-sided screen), or
5 square inches (30 sq cm) of nori per day (1-sided screen), or
0.1 dry ounce (2.8 grams) of pellet food per day (2-sided screen), or
0.05 dry ounce (1.4 grams) of pellet food per day (1-sided screen)

High-wattage technique: Double the wattage, and cut the hours in half (to 9 per day). This will get brown screens to grow green much faster. Thus the example above would be 12 watts on each side, for a total of 24 watts, but for only 9 hours per day. If growth starts to turn YELLOW, then increase the flow, or add iron, or reduce the number of hours. And since the bulbs are operating for 9 hours instead of 18, they will last 6 months instead of 3 months.

HORIZONTAL screens: Multiply the screen size by 4, and the wattage by 1.5

Flow is 24 hours, and is at least 35 gph per inch of width of screen [60 lph per cm], EVEN IF one sided or horizontal.

Very rough screen made of roughed-up-like-a-cactus plastic canvas.

Clean algae off of screen every 7 to 14 days, so that you can see the white screen material.

[coolhandgoose]

So I know this thread has drifted quite a bit from the original.

I tested my rodi and the TDS was 30!
So I've gotta replace my filters and get new di resin.
I'm wondering if I may have diatoms and not Dino's???