Chloramine - check your water source!

[Myka]

I just found out that Saskatoon uses chloramine. I don't have chloramine filters in my RO/DI unit. This makes me wonder about some of the issues I've had with my reef tanks... :neutral:

For those that don't know, chloramine is a chemical used by water treatment facilities. Some facilities choose to use chloramine as opposed to chlorine. In order to remove chloramine you have to break the bind of the chlorine and ammonia, then both need to be removed. Chloramine will not off-gas like chlorine will so adding an airstone to a bucket of water will not remove it. Typical carbon also will not remove chloramine.

If your water source contains chloramine you need chloramine-specific filters in your RO/DI unit before the RO membrane. Chloramine should damage the RO membrane (and irritate/harm the reef inhabitants), although my RO membrane is 18 months old now and I don't have any issues with it.

I can't wait to get the chloramine-specific filters in from BRS and do a big waterchange! :eek:

Please either send an email in to your water works division or check your local city website, you should double check. Thanks to one of our local reefers who tipped me off on this!

EDIT: Please check out Buckeye Field Supply's post on Page 5, post #43 for a professional answer to chloramines. Thanks Russ!

[Casey8]

Why don't you just use Prime to remove it ?

[Nano]

I use ro, but I get it from the water fill station, so its no deionized, I do still use prime though as our local water is treated with chloramine as well, luckily the RO has the extra membranes to remove chloramine. We switched to ro for drinking to as I found out our water has mercury in it too! its at a "safe" level, but whats safe? :razz:

[marie]

Canadian tire sells RO filters for chloramine

[fencer]

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/

[mark]

reminds me, time to change my pre-filters.

[Myka]

For those suggesting Prime, it is kinda difficult to get Prime into the water before the water goes through the RO/DI unit. After reading the article that fencer posted it sounds like monochloramine (the most common of three different chloramines) goes through the RO membrane not damaging it, but still getting to the tank. In which case adding Prime to the RO/DI product water could be a decent alternative.

Other references suggest that with a typical RO/DI unit the carbon block will convert the chloramine to chlorine and ammonia. The carbon will then convert that chlorine to chloride, which the RO will remove. The ammonia will make it through the RO where the DI will remove it. This would explain why I seem to burn through DI resin faster than what the TDS going to it suggest. There seems to be rather a bit of confusion on the subject! Several references suggest that catalytic carbon is required to break the bond of ammonia and chlorine. Hmmm...

I'm going to order a test kit. I wanted a chlorine kit anyway.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/

This is a really old article, but lots of very interesting information! Thanks for posting! I'm going to see if I can find something more recent.

[fishytime]

this may provide some insight as to why it seems that truly beautiful full blown SPS tanks seem to be zone specific......anyone else ever notice that or is it just me?

[Myka]

Yeah, I have been noticing that lately Doug.

Ok, I found this written in 2009. This written by Charles Metsis, President of SpectraPure. I bolded some interesting and/or important points.

More detailed explanation on Chloramines, membranes and carbon filters:

In order to understand the mechanism of chloramine removal, a little background information on the chemistry of chloramines is necessary. Chloramines are formed by the reaction of ammonia and chlorine gas. Chloramines can exist as three chemical species: monochloramine (the predominant species found in tap water), dichloramines and trichloramines. The chloramine species depends upon the pH of the water and the ratios of chlorine to ammonia. At tap water pH levels of 7 to 8.5, the formation of monochloramines is favored. Of the three species, monochloramine is the most stable and difficult to remove, as well as the most damaging to aquatic life.

A “ppm-hour” is defined as the exposure of 1 ppm chlorine/chloramine water for 1 hour. Film-Tec quotes 300,000 ppm-hours (six years at 1 ppm) of chloramine resistance for their TFC polyamide (PA) membrane material, but only 200 to 1000 ppm-hours of free chlorine resistance. This indicates that chloramines will not damage Film-Tec membranes, while free chlorine levels must be held below 0.1 ppm to prevent oxidation damage. The easiest test for chloramine is with a Total Chlorine Test Kit (SpectraPure Part # TK-CL-10). The TK-CL-10 tests for a combination of free chlorine and chloramines. A sample of the wastewater stream from the RO membrane should show no signs of chlorine.

The most important purpose of a sediment filter is to protect the downstream carbon block filters from plugging with sediment. A properly designed sediment filter will have a micron rating smaller or equal to the closest downstream filter element. It will have a gradient density structure such that the outer layers capture the larger particles and the inner layers capture the finer particles. This will maintain a large dirt holding capacity and prevent the finer particles from plugging downstream carbon filters. Using a 5 micron carbon block followed by a 0.5 micron carbon block, maximum chlorine and volatile chemical removal can be achieved without premature filter failure. If a sediment filter is used that passes particles larger than the next downstream filter, that filter will plug, blinding off the active carbon surfaces, reducing its ability to remove chlorine and organic chemicals.

Trade-offs exist in almost any circumstance and carbon filtration is no exception. The smaller the micron rating, the better the removal capacity due to greater surface area. Carbon block filters made with bituminous carbon are more effective than coconut shell carbon filters for removal of monochloramine. On the other hand, in water supplies with chlorine only, the coconut shell carbon may have higher capacities for the removal of free chlorine and low molecular weight volatile organic compounds such as trihalomethanes (chloroform). Multi-carbon block pre-filtration is not always necessary, especially in smaller flow rate systems when adequate pre-filtration and sub-micron carbon block filters are used. Activated carbon will break the chloramine bond and remove the chlorine component leaving free ammonia (NH3+). RO membranes are transparent to dissolved gases that will pass freely through the membrane concentrating in the RO product water.

Generally, reverse osmosis water is slightly acidic, due to the higher ratio of free CO2 to bicarbonate alkalinity. The exception to this rule is the presence of high pH “soda-lime softening” used by some municipalities. Free CO2 dissolved in water forms carbonic acid that lowers the pH to the range of 5 to 6 pH. In low pH RO product water, the ammonia is converted to the ionized ammonium ion NH4+. Downstream de-ionizing resins can then easily remove this charged species. It is cationic and removed by strong acid cation resins (in the hydrogen form) in either mixed bed or separate bed systems. Aquarists can be certain that when salt is properly added to RO or RO/DI water, the expected salinity and pH will be realized.

[MarkoD]

Anyone know if north Edmonton uses chloramine?

And I think of you use prime for chloramine it'll just turn it into ammonia. Just don't know what the concentration is

[Bblinks]

Interesting! I better contact the city and ask if it's used in BC. Funny this was just mentioned on Mr Saltwater Tank passed Friday.

[Aquattro]

Victoria uses chloramine for it's water. I've never addressed it in my system though....

[Nano]

Anyone know if north Edmonton uses chloramine?

And I think of you use prime for chloramine it'll just turn it into ammonia. Just don't know what the concentration is
I think prime takes care of ammonia, chlorine and chloramine as well, but I could be wrong, I know it says a few things like that on the label

[sphelps]

Anyone know if north Edmonton uses chloramine?


Yeap Edmonton definitely does. Most places do but Calgary doesn't as of yet as far as I know. But for the record my tanks always did fine in Saskatoon.

[MarkoD]

I think prime takes care of ammonia, chlorine and chloramine as well, but I could be wrong, I know it says a few things like that on the label

It doesn't disappear tho. It's converted to something less dangerous

[Nano]

ahhh, I see lol. I wonder if putting prime in it the bubbling an airstone like you would for chlorine if that would take care of the rest? probably not haha

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

For Metro Vancouver (including Burnaby reefers), I found this posted by the government:

"Metro Vancouver draws its water from Capilano, Seymour and Coquitlam sources and distributes it through its waterworks systems to member municipalities after treatment. As a part of the provision for treating water, Metro Vancouver uses chlorine as a primary disinfectant for Seymour and Capilano source waters. Coquitlam source water uses ozone and ultraviolet (UV) light as primary disinfectants. These source waters are subsequently
re-chlorinated at various regional secondary disinfection facilities installed in 1998. The disinfectant dosages are monitored at the regional chlorination facilities using on-line potentiometric chlorine analyzers.

The Seymour-Capilano Filtration Plant (SCFP) which is located near Rice Lake in the Lower Seymour Conservation Reserve went to full filtration on January 15th, 2010 and operated successfully throughout 2010. The Seymour source water is now be treated (filtration, corrosion control and disinfection) at SCFP and is conveyed by regional water mains to member municipalities for distribution to homes, businesses and industry. The primary disinfection facility at Seymour Falls Dam continued to operate until July 22, 2010.
Metro Vancouver discontinued chlorination of the Seymour source at Seymour Fall Dam on July 29th, 2010. When the twin tunnel component of the SCFP project is complete, the Plant will treat 1.8 billion litres of water from both the Seymour and Capilano sources. SCFP was constructed in the fall 2009, and is the largest of its kind in Canada. It includes the world’s largest ultraviolet disinfection system."

[Bblinks]

I called the city of Coquitlam and Metro water. They told me that they DO NOT use chloramine as a additive. The lady who answered the phone went on to tell me about how chloramine does produce naturally through the clean water process. I did look up the natural formation of chloramine. http://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-chloramines.htm
It seems that only thing will take out chloramine will be rox carbon in your ro system. I am not too sure if its gonna make a difference since my ro out always reads 0 ppm maybe I'll change my carbon filter to rox and see if it make any difference in the tank.

[toolmanbmw]

What is this special filter I need? I have a 5 stage system and seems to be working fine in edmonton here. I don't use any prime....

[lee9]

I had checked with the City of Calgary before I purchased my RO/DI unit to see if they used chloramine to treat the water. This is the information they gave me.

There are two treatment facilities for the City of Calgary. So it depends which part of the city you live in as to where your water is treated.

Bearspaw (from Bow River): Uses chlorine gas.
Glenmore (from Glenmore Resevoir): Uses sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl)

[Bblinks]

What is this special filter I need? I have a 5 stage system and seems to be working fine in edmonton here. I don't use any prime....

Can chloramines be removed from water?

Chloramines remain active in the water system for a considerably long period of time. Like other molecules, chloramines contribute to the total amount of dissolved solids in the water. Like chlorine, chloramines are selectively reactive and may have damaging affects when they remain in the water for too long.
When chloramines are present, there are usually trace amounts of ammonia and hypochlorite in the water as well. Chloramines are hardly ionic. As a result and because of the low molecular weight, chloramines, mainly monochloramine, are difficult to remove from water by reverse osmosis (RO) (http://www.lenntech.com/rosmosis.htm) or water softening (http://www.lenntech.com/softening.htm). Boiling and distillation cannot be used either. Substances for chlorine removal cannot be used for the removal of chloramines. Sunlight and aeration may aid chloramine removal.
Chloramines can be removed by means of a granular active carbon filter (http://www.lenntech.com/adsorption.htm). This filter brings down chloramine concentrations from 1-2 ppm to less than 0,1 ppm. One must make sure that the active carbon comes in contact with chloramines for a significant amount of time. An active carbon filter is a selective, which means it also removes other compounds, such as chlorine (reduction to chloride), hydrogen (http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-chart-elements/H-en.htm) sulphide, organic compounds, THM, pesticides and radon (http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-chart-elements/Rn-en.htm). When these compounds are present in water, this will influence the capacity of the filter.
The amount of chloramines in the water can be determined by measuring the 'total chlorine' residu. This means measuring the 'total amount of chlorine' or the 'amount of chlorine compounds'.



Read more: http://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-chloramines.htm#ixzz1j5cuyo1k

[toolmanbmw]

Can chloramines be removed from water?

Chloramines remain active in the water system for a considerably long period of time. Like other molecules, chloramines contribute to the total amount of dissolved solids in the water. Like chlorine, chloramines are selectively reactive and may have damaging affects when they remain in the water for too long.
When chloramines are present, there are usually trace amounts of ammonia and hypochlorite in the water as well. Chloramines are hardly ionic. As a result and because of the low molecular weight, chloramines, mainly monochloramine, are difficult to remove from water by reverse osmosis (RO) (http://www.lenntech.com/rosmosis.htm) or water softening (http://www.lenntech.com/softening.htm). Boiling and distillation cannot be used either. Substances for chlorine removal cannot be used for the removal of chloramines. Sunlight and aeration may aid chloramine removal.
Chloramines can be removed by means of a granular active carbon filter (http://www.lenntech.com/adsorption.htm). This filter brings down chloramine concentrations from 1-2 ppm to less than 0,1 ppm. One must make sure that the active carbon comes in contact with chloramines for a significant amount of time. An active carbon filter is a selective, which means it also removes other compounds, such as chlorine (reduction to chloride), hydrogen (http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-chart-elements/H-en.htm) sulphide, organic compounds, THM, pesticides and radon (http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-chart-elements/Rn-en.htm). When these compounds are present in water, this will influence the capacity of the filter.
The amount of chloramines in the water can be determined by measuring the 'total chlorine' residu. This means measuring the 'total amount of chlorine' or the 'amount of chlorine compounds'.



Read more: http://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-chloramines.htm#ixzz1j5cuyo1k

Thanks for the info. I do have an active carbon as the second stage.... So I should be safe. But during water change, I think I will still add prime from now on. Just incase.

[phi delt reefer]

its important to remember that that most household RO systems are just running a low micron prefilter and a ro membrane.

as BBLinks article stated activated carbon will pretty much get rid of all of the chloramine. Most of your aquarium grade RO/DI units use atleast one carbon stage as part of prefiltering.

i guess the question is how effecient is the carbon block at removing chloramines and when would it be exhausted. IS there a hobby grade kit we can purchase for chloramine testing?

[mike31154]

To the best of my knowledge, RO systems rated for chloramine simply incorporate two carbon stages. I've only skimmed through the linked articles briefly, but my own system came with two carbon stages & was rated for chloramine removal because of that. When I found out Greater Vernon uses chlorine, I removed the activated carbon stage & added another poly pre filter in its place. So now I have a 5 micron poly, a 1 micron poly, 0.5 micron carbon block 'chlorine guzzler', RO membrane & finally DI. Been running for close to 3 years, DI is still good, membrane still good. Only thing I've ever replaced is the first stage 5 micron poly. Tap water TDS is 210-220.

[intarsiabox]

Anyone know if north Edmonton uses chloramine?

And I think of you use prime for chloramine it'll just turn it into ammonia. Just don't know what the concentration is

Yes, Edmonton uses chloramine. If took this quote off of Epcor's Edmonton water treatment website. (4) Chlorine, (Total Residual)
In EPCOR's distribution system, the total residual chlorine is composed entirely of chloramine. Chloramine is a disinfectant that results when chlorine is combined with ammonia. It is a much weaker disinfectant than free chlorine but it stays in water longer, is more stable in distribution systems, and can more effectively penetrate any film or deposit on a pipe to kill bacteria. Our approval sets limits of 0.5 - 2.5 mg/L for drinking water. EPCOR's treated water contains an average of 2.19 mg/L.

[MarkoD]

hmmmm ..... wont the RO stage or DI resin remove it?

[phi delt reefer]

from Spectrapures site (in reference to their carbon blocks)

http://www.spectrapure.com/SYSTEM_BREAKDOWN.htm

CARBON BLOCK PRE-FILTER (2nd Stage Filter)
A Carbon Filter also has specific ratings that range from 5, 1 and 0.5. Each rating determines how much chlorine is removed in gallons of water. The 5 micron can remove chlorine for up to 6,000 gal, the1 micron for up to 9,000 and the 0.5 micron 20,000. This filter is in the 2nd stage. It removes chlorine, organics, heavy metals, trihalomethanes, pesticides and many other chemical pollutants. It will also break-up chloramines, which is chlorine bonded with ammonia ( removes the chlorine and leaves the ammonia).

(Only the 0.5 micron carbon block filter removes trihalomethanes, pesticides, volatile organic chemicals and 99.95% of giardia and cryptosporidium cysts.)

A Carbon Filter will usually lasts approx. 4-6 months ,depending on micron rating for the filters, usage and the quality of your tap water. The best way to determine when your Carbon Block Pre-Filter needs replacement is to use a chlorine test kit. Any chlorine level above 0.1 ppm will cause damage to the membrane and indicates that the carbon block filter must be changed.

[Cal_stir]

I was told by the people at Spectrapure that carbon, especially GAC, will break the chloraimine bond and remove the chlorine and the DI resin will remove the ammonia.
I run a 5 micron carbon block, a GAC cartridge, then a 1 micron block before my RO membrane.

[StirCrazy]

chloramine is nothing new, most municipality water systems are going to be mandated to use it when the new federal drinking water gidelines come out. chlorine itself is a instantanious steralizer with no real residual effect so most places where the water has to travel a distance there is no chlorine left in your water when it gets to you, by using chloramine it insures the disinfectant propertys of the water last untill you use it protecting you from older pipe sections which may be contamanated.

Kamloops uses RO for its water, but also adds chloramine.



Metro Vancouver discontinued chlorination of the Seymour source at Seymour Fall Dam on July 29th, 2010. When the twin tunnel component of the SCFP project is complete, the Plant will treat 1.8 billion litres of water from both the Seymour and Capilano sources. SCFP was constructed in the fall 2009, and is the largest of its kind in Canada. It includes the world’s largest ultraviolet disinfection system."

the seymore water plant will use UV and Ozone and is and will still be using chlorine or chloramine, but at a reduced amount due to the UV and ozone. it will also be added at distrabution points. (it is writen right on the brochur for the plant.)

In victoria we have had chloramine for as long as I can remember and all I did was run different filters. for my system I ran a 25 to 1 micron absolute membrain (bigger 4x10") then I ran two carbon blocks, then an amonia guzzeler (home depot canuck rubber and a few other places have these. might be a different name but there for filtering out amonia.) then went into my RO and through my DI.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

its important to remember that that most household RO systems are just running a low micron prefilter and a ro membrane.



there is a reason for that. its called sales. chlorine will damage the membrain so in a household system people are usaly told to replace there prefilter and post carbon every six months and there ro membrain every year.

I used my RO membrains for seven years befor they started to degrade, and I atribute that to a proper selcection of prefilters and religious back flushing.

Steve

[mike31154]

Been keeping track of gallons throughput of my RODI since setting it up in April '09 on an Excel spreadsheet. Other than the poly pre filters I prefer to use gallons throughput rather than months as criteria for when to change my carbon filter. The documentation for my 0.5 micron carbon block says it's "Highly effective for chlorine.... for up to 20,000 gallons at a rate of 1 GPM".

According to my calculations, I've put an estimated 12,600 gallons through my system in just under 3 years. I say estimated since I'm using not only gallons of pure water produced, but also adding 4 times the amount of pure to the total since there's an estimated 4 gallons of waste for every gallon of pure water produced. This all goes through the carbon block. The 1 to 4 ratio is an approximation & I can only guess that since I don't measure this every time I produce water. I'm a cheapskate & don't fancy the idea of changing my carbon filter after 4 months if I haven't come anywhere near the rated gallon amount the filter is supposed to be good for. When feasible, I also like to verify manufacturer's claims so that I don't knacker my RO membrane before its rated life. So a few months ago I decided to check for chlorine at the tap source as well as after my carbon block. Results follow, I feel warm & fuzzy that my carbon block is still good & can go for a few thousand gallons more.

Sorry getting a little off topic from chloramine, but there has been some info provided in posts here regarding when to change certain filters.

Two photos since it may be difficult to tell the colour difference, one made with flash & one without. Should be able to tell on the strip in left of photo chlorine is 0 whereas the one on right shows a touch of purple indicating the presence of chlorine. This of course is the one dipped into the source water & the left one is after the carbon block.

https://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pESxUZ_qCnoor4p2xKT2PpwP8vth846A_2GnX645chfzU4D8 6SXwT8ZZUBDAjjxpGFgOn29CBgNrcrnCTKskWYg/P1040462e.JPG?psid=1



https://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pyjCVMXkkap5u3hs0Hiat8dTNOov8j-ljFzSRRUGSMC9nPG9rCIBO2cxkyFtsQHmtdI30n2tqiUScmz17 Me7pYg/P1040461e.JPG?psid=1

[hillegom]

Mike, will your test strips also check for chloramines?
Thanks

[mike31154]

Mike, will your test strips also check for chloramines?
Thanks

Don't think so. It's an AquaChek pool & spa test kit. You can see on the colour chart that it tests for 'free' chlorine. I'm assuming that since chloramine is chlorine combined with ammonia, it won't provide accurate indication of the presence of chloramine. However, since a carbon filter is supposed to separate the chlorine & ammonia, it may still be useful to check for traces of chlorine after your carbon stage. AquaChek has a web site so you could probably find more info there.

[hillegom]

Thanks Mike.
I see on their website that they also sell a strip that tests for 7 parameters.
Two of interest, free chlorine and total chlorine. I think the chloramines would be included in the total chlorine

[mike31154]

Ya, not a bad deal these strips. As you can see the one I have also does pH & alk. Don't recall if I tried one of these strips in my tank water. Might should do that some time & compare to the liquid test kit readings. According to their site, the strips may end up being more accurate due to less prone to errors as when counting drops of reagent with the liquid kits.

[StirCrazy]

If you're testing for chloramines, make sure the test kit is testing for "total chlorine" or "combined chlorine," not for "free chlorine." A test for "free chlorine" would misleadingly read zero in chloraminated water.

also by testing for amonia you can determin if there is chloramines present.

heres a good read http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/

Steve

[mark]

would the chlorine test kits work with salt water? Thinking maybe testing for a possible buildup of chloramine in the display.

[Coleus]

I had checked with the City of Calgary before I purchased my RO/DI unit to see if they used chloramine to treat the water. This is the information they gave me.

There are two treatment facilities for the City of Calgary. So it depends which part of the city you live in as to where your water is treated.

Bearspaw (from Bow River): Uses chlorine gas.
Glenmore (from Glenmore Resevoir): Uses sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl)


So does this mean i have to put bubble stone in my after RO/DI water before using it? I am in NW so i guess I am using Bearspawn

[Myka]

I sent an email a few days ago to SpectraPure asking some questions about chloramines and filter cartridges, but haven't received a reply yet. I will send a PM to Buckeye Field Supply...I'm surprised he hasn't hopped in on this thread yet.

Thanks for posting Mike, where do you get those test strips? I've been wanting to buy chlorine test strips...maybe they have one for chloramines too.

I tested my RO/DI water for ammonia and there was no ammonia detected. I should test before the DI resin.

Two of interest, free chlorine and total chlorine. I think the chloramines would be included in the total chlorine

Total chlorine - free chlorine = chloramines (in our case anyway)

[mike31154]

The test strips are for pool/spa. You should be able to get them any place that has pool or spa maintenance stuff. I think I might have seen the kit at Wal Merde but I got mine at a spa/hot tub business outlet. It's an AquaChek as you can see in the photo I posted. They also make kits that test for 'combined' or 'total' chlorine, but I'm not sure what that means exactly... combined with what? May or may not be ammonia. I think I read somewhere in the research that once chlorine hits the water, it starts 'combining' with some of the stuff which it's designed to kill or neutralize. This may not necessarily be ammonia, which is what it's combined with to make chloramine? Confused yet? I sure as hell am & real glad Vernon just uses chlorine.

There's already some good info on chloramines & how to best deal with them for our application on the Spectrapure FAQ site:

http://www.spectrapure.com/SYSTEM_BREAKDOWN.htm

phideltreefer already posted the link but only provided a partial quote in is post here. If you read the whole article, most of your questions should be answered.

"Our dual cartridge combination of DI-SF-CI-10 followed by DI-AR-CI-10 is an effective and more economical way to remove the ammonia"

Steve's link to reefkeeping pretty well covers it too....

[Myka]

Ok, thanks...was hoping I could get it at hardware store, but not likely I guess.

[Buckeye Field Supply]

Hi folks - thanks for the heads up Myka!.

The key with chloramines is to provide adequate contact time with the carbon prefilters. In some situations, one good carbon block is sufficient. Our practice to to always include two carbon prefilters in systems used with chloramines.

Don't bother with a standard GAC cartridge.

Catalytic GAC is another story. It is a super fast acting GAC and we include this as the first of two carbon stages in our Chloramine Special RODI's. The CGAC cartridges are axial flow - meaning the water must flow through the length of the cartridge to maximize contact time. The second carbon block we use is a top of the line, 20,000 gallon, 0.5 mic block - the best we can find.

As mentioned previously in the thread, you will see relatively fasted DI depletion with waters containing chloramines. A dual stage DI is not a bad idea with these waters.

Russ

[d33ps3a]

I bouaght a ro/di system from aquasafe's eBay store for 200 incl shipping. Its a 7 stage w extra filters for 6 changes and other accessories. They state on their website that chloramine is filtered out. Pretty good deal considering what you get. Also, its a 3 stage di filter.

[Buckeye Field Supply]

You'll want to remove the 3 DI filters from their clips and orient each of them vertically so that flow through them goes from the bottom to the top.

Horizontal DI filters are a fundamental configuration error...

Russ

[mike31154]

You'll want to remove the 3 DI filters from their clips and orient each of them horizontally so that flow through them goes from the bottom to the top.

Horizontal DI filters are a fundamental configuration error...

Russ

So your first sentence should read to orient the DI filters "vertically", vice horizontally?

[Buckeye Field Supply]

Agghh! Thanks - I fixed my post.

[mike31154]

Ya, couldn't let that one slip by... I know, it's early in the morning still out west here.

[Myka]

Thanks for stopping on the thread Russ! Axial flow makes a lot of sense. I noticed that CGAC cartridges were axial, but didn't register the significance of this.

[Myka]

Got a kit today. It is called AquaChek Select which tests for free chlorine, total chlorine, total hardness, total bromine, pH, tota alkalinity, and cyanuric acid. It was $28 for 50 test strips. I got it at a Hottub store, but had to go to three before I found a kit that would test total chlorine.

My tap water tested chlorine 0, and total chlorine 0.5-1 ppm. RODI water tested 0 for both. So, good news is no chloramines are getting through my RODI system. Maybe my system is doing just fine...

[Buckeye Field Supply]

Check to see if ammonia, a byproduct of chloramine treatment, is getting through your DI.

Russ

[Myka]

Check to see if ammonia, a byproduct of chloramine treatment, is getting through your DI.

Russ

No ammonia in the RODI water.

[Buckeye Field Supply]

No ammonia in the RODI water.

Great. It's that ammonia that depletes the DI resin quickly on RODI systems fed water w/ chloramines.

Russ

[StirCrazy]

what I am thinking as I keep checking this is why the big panic? there nothing new, all the tanks in Victoria have been running 10 years now on chloramine water and most never did anything special to remove it that others are not already doing.

my tank there ran 7 years, Brad has been running way longer, and countless others that had tanks before I did or around the same time. no problems that were atributed to chloramines.

if you want to make sure your good, buy a 30 buck ro housing and run two carbon block filters, better yet buy another one also and run two sedimate filters before the carbon blocks. run a 5 micron absolute then run a 1 micron absolute, into two carbon blocks then as normal. if you do this you might spend 60 to 100 bucks. there are more efficient sediment filters out there.. you can buy a bigger housing like I did (more expensive) and upgrade to a 10X4" filter that is a 25micron to 1 micron absolute. I changed this one ever 6 months in Victoria as we had a very high algae count in our water.

Steve

[Myka]

Oh I heard you the first time you said nothing new. No kidding...chloramines have been used for years. However, it IS new to me (having to deal with it that is), and there are many people out there that aren't even aware of it.

Adding ammonia to your tank could very well be a problem! If the carbon in your RODI system doesn't have sufficient contact time to break the bond between ammonia and chlorine the remaining chloramines (particularly monochloramine found primarily at high tap water pH) will go right through the RODI system. Your RODI system also needs enough contact time to not only break the bond, but also to remove the resulting chlorine because chlorine (unlike chloramines) will damage the RO membrane.

Another thing to think of is that our test kits aren't exactly lab quality, so taking a couple extra measures (like adding a cartridge of catalytic carbon to the RODI system) might not be such a bad idea. ;) I don't really trust these little dip strips to be overly accurate, but I do think they can help.

This discussion is just about awareness Steve, as more and more communities are switching from chlorine to chloramines. I don't see why you would frown on such discussion.


what I am thinking as I keep checking this is why the big panic? there nothing new, all the tanks in Victoria have been running 10 years now on chloramine water and most never did anything special to remove it that others are not already doing.

[lee9]

So does this mean i have to put bubble stone in my after RO/DI water before using it? I am in NW so i guess I am using Bearspawn

Sorry, I missed this. I don't think it's necessary as the carbon filter removes the chlorine and it will offgas naturally. An airstone may increase the dissolved oxygen content in the water but if you agitate your water with a powerhead when mixing salt it wouldn't be necessary.

Even if you don't use a powerhead and mix manually you shouldn't have any issues. I stirred my salt manually for 6 months or so and didn't see any ill effects from it.

I'm no expert though :)

[StirCrazy]

This discussion is just about awareness Steve, as more and more communities are switching from chlorine to chloramines. I don't see why you would frown on such discussion.

not frowning at all, rather I think its (dont know the right word,) funny in a interesting way I guess. over the last 12 years seeing certian topics come up over and over is starting to look like trends.

I am waiting for DSB debates to start again now :mrgreen:

but seriously most RO systems come with a carbon block filter and that removes them. you want to be sure I posted about adding an aditional carbon block, you want to make your carbon block last longer add a better prefilter, no worries.

there were no special filters for this 10 years ago and any company claiming special filters must be used is just trying to sell stuff.

Steve

[Pop Alexandra]

I use an analyzer to check total chlorides (https://cianalytics.com/application/total-chlorides). I recommend you do the same if you live in a region with water quality problems.