Losing Corals fast...question about GE Silicone II

[Carrera75]

Another reefer and I built a back chamber for my new cube tank and we used GE Silicone II. I set up the tank and almost immediately I started losing corals and I blame the GE Silicone II. Is this product reef safe?

Another reefer shared this link not long ago and it makes me think that the other reefer that helped me out build the back chamber used the wrong Silicone.
http://www.reeftime.com/diy-reef-projects/diy-other/what-silicone-reef-safe/23.htm

I recently shut down my 34 gallon Solana and set up a cube tank. This transfer was very well planned and I made sure that all corals, fish and liverock were placed in Rubbermaid containers immediately. Each container had a powerhead or two to keep the water moving and a heater to make sure that the temperature remained stable. All corals were open and happy during this time but all this changed as soon as they went into the new tank.

Tank is currently not doing well and I am losing corals fast and I am afraid that the GE Silicone II is the responsible for all the loses. There is no other explanation for what's going on in my tank. The liverock has been in my systems for the last 7 years and I used new sand. I get it that a small cycle might happen but not this. Whatever this is, it's killing my corals. So far I have lost an Aussie Gold Torch, Neon Green and Blue Wall Hammer, Orange Frogspawn, Galaxia and it seems that the Octopus Frogsoawn is on its way out too. All 9 Rock Flower Anemones spawned last night and the rest of the corals are not looking good.

I started doing water changes as soon as I realized that there was something wrong with the tank and finally did some water testing last night. Phosphates, Nitrites and Nitrates were at 0.0 but Ammonia was at 0.25 ppm. I quickly did another water change, waited a bit and tested again. The w/c seemed to bring down the Ammonia to 0.0. I also started running Purigen and ROWAphos hoping that this will eliminate whatever it's that's bothering the corals.

What should I do now? Should I take everything out of the tank to remove the Silicone?

[unclesalty]

A friend and I built a back chamber for my new cube tank and we used GE Silicone II and I would like to know if GE Silicone II is reef safe. Up until now all the info that I have found says that it is NOT safe but I am hoping to get some feedback from people with some experience with this product.

Another reefer shared this link not long ago and it makes me think that the other reefer that helped me out build the back chamber used the wrong Silicone.
http://www.reeftime.com/diy-reef-projects/diy-other/what-silicone-reef-safe/23.htm

I recently shut down my 34 gallon Solana and set up a cube tank. This transfer was very planned and I made sure that all corals, fish and liverock were placed in Rubbermaid containers immediately. Each container had a powerhead or two to keep the water moving and a heater to make sure that the temperature remained stable. All corals were open and happy during this time but all this changed as soon as they went into the new tank.

Tank is currently not doing well and I am losing corals fast and I am afraid that the GE Silicone II is the responsible for all the loses. I was even told by the reefer that told me to use the GE Silicone II to put a fan in front of the back chamber and this would cure the Silicone in about 4 hours. This idea didn't sound right to me so I let it cure for over 2 days instead. There is no other explanation for what's going on in my tank. The liverock has been in my systems for the last 7 years and I used new sand. I get it that a small cycle might happen but not this. Whatever this is, it's killing my corals. So far I have lost an Aussie Gold Torch, Neon Green and Blue Wall Hammer, Orange Frogspawn, Galaxia and it seems that the Octopus Frogsoawn is on its way out too. All 9 Rock Flower Anemones spawned last night and the rest of the corals are not looking good.

I started doing water changes as soon as I realized that there was something wrong with the tank and finally got did some water testing last night. Phosphates, Nitrites and Nitrates were at 0.0 but Ammonia was at 0.25 ppm. I quickly did another water change, waited a bit and tested again. The w/c seemed to bring down the Ammonia to 0.0. I also started running Purigen and ROWAphos hoping that this will eliminate whatever it's that's bothering the corals.

I am so :mad: right now.....

I just did some research the other day on GE II ! People say its not reef safe and have lost livestock from using it. Some people say its no problem at all though so who knows. Myself I lost some livestock mysteriously when I started up a tank a year ago and I did use it to silicone my 2 corner overflows together. Just use GE SCS1200 to be safe which I actually bought today for my build. Its also the best and strongest silicone money can buy.

[msjboy]

That is a shame...i think you have one of nicest tanks around that is sumpless and skimmerless. Hope you can replensih the stock with frags you passed on in the past.... How are the 200 rics doing?
Msjboy

[Carrera75]

That is a shame...i think you have one of nicest tanks around that is sumpless and skimmerless. Hope you can replensih the stock with frags you passed on in the past.... How are the 200 rics doing?
Msjboy

You have no idea how ****ed I am right now. The new tank was looking amazing that is until corals started dying. I did a very minimalist open aquascape that totally rocks. I might have to tear this tank apart to get rid of the GE Silicone II .

It really hurt to lose the Aussie Gold Torch and Neon Green/Blue Wall Hammer. They were stunning corals :-(
Oh, and the ricordeas are NOT happy right now.......

If I lose most of my corals I'll get out of the hobby for sure.....I would have no desire or time to invest more energy into the hobby

[unclesalty]

Another reefer and I built a back chamber for my new cube tank and we used GE Silicone II. He assured me that it was totally reef safe and I believed him but now I am not so sure that this thing is reef safe so I thought I would ask other reefers what their views are on this product. Up until now all the info that I have found says that it is NOT safe but I am hoping to get some feedback from people with some experience with this product.

Another reefer shared this link not long ago and it makes me think that the other reefer that helped me out build the back chamber used the wrong Silicone.
http://www.reeftime.com/diy-reef-projects/diy-other/what-silicone-reef-safe/23.htm

I recently shut down my 34 gallon Solana and set up a cube tank. This transfer was very planned and I made sure that all corals, fish and liverock were placed in Rubbermaid containers immediately. Each container had a powerhead or two to keep the water moving and a heater to make sure that the temperature remained stable. All corals were open and happy during this time but all this changed as soon as they went into the new tank.

Tank is currently not doing well and I am losing corals fast and I am afraid that the GE Silicone II is the responsible for all the loses. I was even told by the reefer that told me to use the GE Silicone II to put a fan in front of the back chamber and this would cure the Silicone in about 4 hours. This idea didn't sound right to me so I let it cure for over 2 days instead. There is no other explanation for what's going on in my tank. The liverock has been in my systems for the last 7 years and I used new sand. I get it that a small cycle might happen but not this. Whatever this is, it's killing my corals. So far I have lost an Aussie Gold Torch, Neon Green and Blue Wall Hammer, Orange Frogspawn, Galaxia and it seems that the Octopus Frogsoawn is on its way out too. All 9 Rock Flower Anemones spawned last night and the rest of the corals are not looking good.

I started doing water changes as soon as I realized that there was something wrong with the tank and finally got did some water testing last night. Phosphates, Nitrites and Nitrates were at 0.0 but Ammonia was at 0.25 ppm. I quickly did another water change, waited a bit and tested again. The w/c seemed to bring down the Ammonia to 0.0. I also started running Purigen and ROWAphos hoping that this will eliminate whatever it's that's bothering the corals.

I am so :mad: right now.....

Just reread your post and its definitely the cause. 2 days isn't even close to letting it cure. I have heard you need weeks and weeks to let GE II cure.

[Carrera75]

Just reread your post and its definitely the cause. 2 days isn't even close to letting it cure. I have heard you need weeks and weeks to let GE II cure.


I let it cure for over 48 hours

[unclesalty]

Can you believe I was told to put a fan in front of the back chamber and this would cure it in 4 hours..............grrrrrrr I feel like kicking somebody's butt right now

I left my GE II cure for a week but it was nowhere near long enough. It releases a chemical I read until its fully cured -ammonia I think it was but not 100% sure

[bkelly]

I just had a big crash and lost all my SPS after re siliconing my sump and letting it cure for over 24 hrs using the same GE II silicone. I am not certain it was the silicone or just a kill from having to pull my sump for 2-3 days but all my SPS except 2 pieces died my LPS suffered but not as bad. I had done reading on line and found most posts were saying THE Blue/white tube of GE silicone II was reef safe. Either way killed everything.
I put tons of carbon in my reactor and did water changes till the town was out of salt - for the first few weeks i was changing nearly daily as much as i could do. ITs been 2 months i guess, the tanks better, and starting to support itself with less water changes. And its supporting SPS again.
If your seeing signs id frag whats still alive best you can and that into a diff system to hopefully have something left , .
My crash drug on for a weeks thats what leads me to think it was poisoned. Nothing survived it , my parameters werent out of wack from what i could recall although you could smell the death.
Hope you dont get it as severe but if you want to be safe id recommend doing some quick fragging.
All the best Brent

[Carrera75]

I just had a big crash and lost all my SPS after re siliconing my sump and letting it cure for over 24 hrs using the same GE II silicone. I am not certain it was the silicone or just a kill from having to pull my sump for 2-3 days but all my SPS except 2 pieces died my LPS suffered but not as bad. I had done reading on line and found most posts were saying THE Blue/white tube of GE silicone II was reef safe. Either way killed everything.
I put tons of carbon in my reactor and did water changes till the town was out of salt - for the first few weeks i was changing nearly daily as much as i could do. ITs been 2 months i guess, the tanks better, and starting to support itself with less water changes. And its supporting SPS again.
If your seeing signs id frag whats still alive best you can and that into a diff system to hopefully have something left , .
My crash drug on for a weeks thats what leads me to think it was poisoned. Nothing survived it , my parameters werent out of wack from what i could recall although you could smell the death.
Hope you dont get it as severe but if you want to be safe id recommend doing some quick fragging.
All the best Brent

What's interesting is that the reefer that helped me out (and recommended to use GE Silicone II) had a major crash after setting up his new cube tank. He used GE Silicone II to build his cube too and he lost 90% of his livestock. It's just now that his tank is slowly bouncing back.

[Borderjumper]

I always thought that GE11 had mold and mildew inhibitors and shouldn't be used in aquariums. A quick google kinda confirms this?
Do you still have the solona? I would fill that up with new salt water and get all my livestock into it ASAP. Might want to keep your rock in a bin for a few days tho separate and do a few water changes on it.. To leach out the chemicals.

[Carrera75]

I always thought that GE11 had mold and mildew inhibitors and shouldn't be used in aquariums. A quick google kinda confirms this?

That's exactly what I found out tonight after doing some research on the net. It's my own fault for trusting too much in other people and not doing my own research and yes, I still have my Solana but right now is full of water and lots of Vinager. I would hate to take the new tank apart because I built an amazing minimalist aquascape :-(
I am running Purigen and ROWAphos and doing daily water changes. Would I be able to keep the tank going if I continued with the water changes and running Purigen and ROWAphos?

[Borderjumper]

I would call GE tomorrow.. There must be a number on the silicone tube. Ask them what's in it, and how long it would take to dissipate.

I was googling and found a post on some chiclid forum.. It mentioned that recently GE changed their formulas so that all of their products now contain mold/mildew inhibitors. I don't know if this is fact or not.. If this is true don't be too fast to blame your bud.. Maybe it used to be reef safe?

Water changes certainly won't hurt!

[Carrera75]

I would call GE tomorrow.. There must be a number on the silicone tube. Ask them what's in it, and how long it would take to dissipate.

I was googling and found a post on some chiclid forum.. It mentioned that recently GE changed their formulas so that all of their products now contain mold/mildew inhibitors. I don't know if this is fact or not.. If this is true don't be too fast to blame your bud.. Maybe it used to be reef safe?

Water changes certainly won't hurt!


I think I read the same post. Thanks for suggesting to get in touch with GE. It's a great idea.

[Aquattro]

I used GE II on my tank and have had no issues at all. I did let it cure longer, but 48 hours should be more than enough time to seal it chemically.

[Aquattro]

However, this was over a year ago, so if the formula changed, you might be affected by it. Last year your buddy was right, GE II "was" reef safe...

[Skimmerking]

Wow man I'm so sorry to hear about this. Your tank was so flourishing with life

[Seamazter]

Do like 5% water changes every 2 days, and use alot of carbon.
This is a sad thing to see happen, if you cannot move your corals out of the tank try the advise above.

[Lonster]

I just used GE II about a month ago to build my new sump. I read there was issues when it was not left to cure long enough, I left mine for about 5 days until it didn't give off a smell anymore and have had no problems with it. There are two different types, one with mildew inhibitor and one without, I was told to make sure that I used the one without. Are you sure you used the one without the mildew inhibitors?

[fishytime]

Really sorry to hear about your losses.....I guess the moral of the story is.... Don't cheap out..... It's amazing to me how many folks look for cheap alternatives for things in this hobby..... Only silicone I've ever used is All Glass aquarium silicone..... Way more expensive than GE or any other brand, but at least I KNOW that it is aquarium safe...... GEs products are not formulated with the aquarium hobby in mind and small changes in formulation can obviously have a big effect..... Again sorry for your issues

[Aquattro]

Doug, I don't think that's the moral of the story here at all. I'm pretty sure All Glass doesn't make silicone, it's just re-branded, and I wouldn't be surprised if it came out of GE. It's like buying Two Little Fishies seaweed (with the little dotted cut your sushi roll here lines) vs. grocery store nori. One is simply packaged for the hobby at a good profit for the repackager. The same with silicone.

[fishytime]

Doug, I don't think that's the moral of the story here at all. I'm pretty sure All Glass doesn't make silicone, it's just re-branded, and I wouldn't be surprised if it came out of GE. It's like buying Two Little Fishies seaweed (with the little dotted cut your sushi roll here lines) vs. grocery store nori. One is simply packaged for the hobby at a good profit for the repackager. The same with silicone.


I realize this, but at least being branded as aquarium safe will give the consumer some sort of leg to stand on if there are any issues.....

[Mandosh]

Both GE I and GE II have "kitchen & bath" (mildew inhibitors) and "window & door." The issue with GEII, from my understanding, is the fact that it is considered "neutral cure." It doesn't realease acids as it cures (so it doesn't stink like vinegar) and because of this it can leach substances (ammonia?) into the tank water for the first couple weeks.

[Carrera75]

I used GE II on my tank and have had no issues at all. I did let it cure longer, but 48 hours should be more than enough time to seal it chemically.

However, this was over a year ago, so if the formula changed, you might be affected by it. Last year your buddy was right, GE II "was" reef safe...

I got an email from GE and they said that it's not safe. Here is what Matthew Brown from GE had to say and I hope this helps other reefers to choose their silicone wisely in the future.

"Daniel,

Thanks for your email and I am sorry to hear about what happened. The Silicone II has a mold and mildew inhibitator in it and will never go away. Unfortunately, as long as the silicone II is in the tank, you run the risk of it killing the reef, etc. We would recommend removing all of the silicone to keep from that happening.

Matthew Brown
Customer Service Rep.
P - 877.943.7325
F - 304.746.1654"


Wow man I'm so sorry to hear about this. Your tank was so flourishing with life

The new one was 1000 times better than the Solana.


Do like 5% water changes every 2 days, and use alot of carbon.
This is a sad thing to see happen, if you cannot move your corals out of the tank try the advise above.


I have been doing 20% water changes every 12 hours and I am also running Purigen, ROWAphos and Kent Carbon.


I just used GE II about a month ago to build my new sump. I read there was issues when it was not left to cure long enough, I left mine for about 5 days until it didn't give off a smell anymore and have had no problems with it. There are two different types, one with mildew inhibitor and one without, I was told to make sure that I used the one without. Are you sure you used the one without the mildew inhibitors?

I guess you got lucky. I am glad that you didn't have any issues as I don't wish this to anybody.


Both GE I and GE II have "kitchen & bath" (mildew inhibitors) and "window & door." The issue with GEII, from my understanding, is the fact that it is considered "neutral cure." It doesn't realease acids as it cures (so it doesn't stink like vinegar) and because of this it can leach substances (ammonia?) into the tank water for the first couple weeks.

I found this the hard way. Ammonia has been an issue since day one but it seems to be under control now. The plan is to take everything out to remove the silicone. I don't think I can do a few weeks of this, one week has been enough. I makes so sad to see corals that have been with me for several years slowly dying.

[Carrera75]

Really sorry to hear about your losses.....I guess the moral of the story is.... Don't cheap out..... It's amazing to me how many folks look for cheap alternatives for things in this hobby..... Only silicone I've ever used is All Glass aquarium silicone..... Way more expensive than GE or any other brand, but at least I KNOW that it is aquarium safe...... GEs products are not formulated with the aquarium hobby in mind and small changes in formulation can obviously have a big effect..... Again sorry for your issues

Please think a bit more before posting. Do you really think that I would risk my corals in order to save a few bucks? I have invested so much money and time into my set up that saving a few bucks was not the reason to use GE Silicone II.

Money was never an issue. Let me tell you that I set up a whole new tank and spent lots of money just so I could give more room to my Elegance. I take pride in ALWAYS doing my best to provide the best environment for every fish or coral that I bring into my tank. Again, don't make assumptions or come to conclusions too quickly before you have all the facts.

[Aquattro]

I also didn't use it to save money, the GE I wasn't available in black, so I used the II. It cured for a few weeks before I added water, but the tank has been running for a year+ and doing well. Perhaps they have changed the formula since then and it contains the inhibitors mentioned.

[Carrera75]

I also didn't use it to save money, the GE I wasn't available in black, so I used the II. It cured for a few weeks before I added water, but the tank has been running for a year+ and doing well. Perhaps they have changed the formula since then and it contains the inhibitors mentioned.

Your are right, I was told that the formula changes from time to time. It also seems that some people used it but they let it cure for weeks and that seemed to work well. I would not advise anybody to use this Silicone for reef purposes in the future.

[bkelly]

So do you guys think that a tank /sump that currently is running and has GE ii silicone in it needs to have the silicone removed because of the possibility of it leaching mold inhibitors?
My sump was re siliconed with the GEii ,the tank did crash but is healthy again and SPS are stable in it now (its been a few months) . my Duncan and one acan are still not fully open but all else is doing well.
thanks

[bkelly]

cold you PM me the GE reps email? The silicone i used was GEII window and door, like to ask him if mold inhibitors are in it? I had read this one was ok.

[Carrera75]

cold you PM me the GE reps email? The silicone i used was GEII window and door, like to ask him if mold inhibitors are in it? I had read this one was ok.

This is the email but I think I already have your answer. Below is the email that I got from them. I believe your answer is there.

"Daniel,

Thanks for your email and I am sorry to hear about what happened. The Silicone II has a mold and mildew inhibitator in it and will never go away. Unfortunately, as long as the silicone II is in the tank, you run the risk of it killing the reef, etc. We would recommend removing all of the silicone to keep from that happening.

Matthew Brown
Customer Service Rep.
askgesa@momentive.com
P - 877.943.7325
F - 304.746.1654"

[Aquattro]

So do you guys think that a tank /sump that currently is running and has GE ii silicone in it needs to have the silicone removed because of the possibility of it leaching mold inhibitors?


I'd say that if the tank is fine now, it should stay fine. I don't think chemicals hang around for a while and decide one day to leach (relative to this scenario).
As I mentioned, I used the GE II and had no problems, so I wouldn't now tear my tank apart to replace it :)
Based on the rep stating that the formula changes, I probably wouldn't use it again, just in case. Silicone I and GE 1200 are both safe options, so I'll use those on future tanks.

[Carrera75]

I'd say that if the tank is fine now, it should stay fine. I don't think chemicals hang around for a while and decide one day to leach (relative to this scenario).
As I mentioned, I used the GE II and had no problems, so I wouldn't now tear my tank apart to replace it :)
Based on the rep stating that the formula changes, I probably wouldn't use it again, just in case. Silicone I and GE 1200 are both safe options, so I'll use those on future tanks.

I think you are right again:wink:. If you are not having any problems now, I doubt you'll have them later.

Aquattro, you mentioned that GE I and 1200 are reef safe. Do you know where I could buy some?

Finally, do you guys think that it's safe to use the sand that's currently in the tank again? It's practically new sand but I am not sure if it would absorb some of the toxic stuff that the silicone has released in the water.

[bkelly]

thanks I did find some posts saying the GE II (for Bath) was mildew containing , but the GEII (for door and window) -the Blue and white tube was ok from what i read may not have the mildew inhibiter.
However it still crashed my system.
Regardless, I am really sorry for your tank situation total know how it feels.
Thanks for the advice on leaving my sump in place now . Wouldnt want to do that job again.
Brent

[no_bs]

Oh Man, sorry to hear this. One of the few tanks that we have yet to see. What a shame. I to have used this silicone, but have left things for weeks before i used it, with no issues. As for your sand, wash the crap out it and you should be fine. Good luck, and hope things pull through.

[bkelly]

I left my rock and sand in after the crash, its fine now. ( over a month) it did take a while to stabalize and things kept dying for quite a while. However you guys are probably right the toxins break down or dissipate over time. Keep the carbon going and change the water lots.
I think you are right again:wink:. If you are not having any problems now, I doubt you'll have them later.

Aquattro, you mentioned that GE I and 1200 are reef safe. Do you know where I could buy some?

Finally, do you guys think that it's safe to use the sand that's currently in the tank again? It's practically new sand but I am not sure if it would absorb some of the toxic stuff that the silicone has released in the water.

[Aquattro]

Aquattro, you mentioned that GE I and 1200 are reef safe. Do you know where I could buy some?


GE I is available at most stores, but generally only in clear, white and brown. Black is tough to find.
GE 1200 is harder to find, although some people have posted places they've seen it. My LFS always carries a few tubes, and I can go to Sea Star aquariums and buy there in a pinch..

[fishytime]

Believe me, I do think about what i post.... More than you know ( for several reasons)...... I'm glad that cost wasn't a factor for you, but fact is, 90% of everyone tries to save here and there.....sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't........whether its cost or eastetics, when it comes to DIY, I feel it's best to go with something marketed for aquarium use......

[bkelly]

its frustrating when you do the research./ get advice but it turns out to be wrong. Its not a cheep hobby and the beauty in it and time invested, make it horrible to get knocked backwards.
Theres some wrong or dated information out there especially if the chemical manufactures are changing formulas.

[ensquire]

Just a suggestion, seeing that you live in Vancouver
http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/mc-sil10c/All-Glass+Clear+Aquarium+Silicone+-+10.3+oz..html

[pinhead]

I have used the GE I without any problems, because I think it says pure Silicon. I have also used Lepages from Canadian Tire and the Rona brand because do say aquarium safe.

[Carrera75]

Just a suggestion, seeing that you live in Vancouver
http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/mc-sil10c/All-Glass+Clear+Aquarium+Silicone+-+10.3+oz..html

I am on my way out to the fish store but I'll go to the one on Kingsawy first. Boxing day sale is still on at this place and I am hoping to find the Silicone there and a bucket or two of IO salt that's selling for $29.99 right now :biggrin: I'll go to J$L if I can't find aquarium silicone at this other store. Oh, and I need black silicone.

Thanks for posting that info

[unclesalty]

If anyone is paying the extra money for the All Glass Aquarium brand of silicone I might be able to sell them a bridge also!

[unclesalty]

GE and All Glass Aquarium have a "deal" going

[Aquattro]

Ya, 15 bucks is a lot to pay for a $5 tube of silicone. Especially if it's not black :razz:

[Carrera75]

I think that I'll try to get this one. Pretty pricey for such small amount.
http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/mc-sil03b/All-Glass+Black+Aquarium+Silicone+-+3+oz..html

[unclesalty]

Ya, 15 bucks is a lot to pay for a $5 tube of silicone. Especially if it's not black :razz:

I totally agree! AGA silicone is GE I to be exact

[Aquattro]

I totally agree! AGA silicone is GE I to be exact

I know...

[Reef Pilot]

I recently did some silicone work in a tank and got it from Home Hardware, 6.29 a tube. It is called Weather Shield, 35 year durability, and says right on the tube Safe for Aquariums.

[jagermaier]

As both Brad and Unclesalty mentioned, GE SCS1200 is a safe and very good choice. I've had many tanks built using this silicone and even recently used it on a bulkhead in my sump with only 24 hour cure time with no issues to any fish or coral including sps. I would recommend using it as long as you can find it.

[unclesalty]

As both Brad and Unclesalty mentioned, GE SCS1200 is a safe and very good choice. I've had many tanks built using this silicone and even recently used it on a bulkhead in my sump with only 24 hour cure time with no issues to any fish or coral including sps. I would recommend using it as long as you can find it.

I just bought mine yesterday for $6.79 a tube and it comes in black also #1203. It is a silicone "construction adhesive" not a "sealant" like most. By far the best product out there and I would bet all tank builders use it.

[BlueWorldAquatic]

Here's a quick question..

When you made the transfer, did you re-use the water or sand? or both?

Maybe instead of blaming the silicone, it might have been the process of the transfer that caused the problem?

Aussie Gold Torch, Neon Green and Blue Wall Hammer, Orange Frogspawn, Galaxia are definately susceptible to bacteria issues. I know I have lost frogspawns by just sand landing on them.

The silicone with mildew inhibiter is definately a factor.

I apologise if someone already asked.

Ken - BWA

[Carrera75]

I just bought mine yesterday for $6.79 a tube and it comes in black also #1203. It is a silicone "construction adhesive" not a "sealant" like most. By far the best product out there and I would bet all tank builders use it.

Where did you buy it and is it black?



I recently did some silicone work in a tank and got it from Home Hardware, 6.29 a tube. It is called Weather Shield, 35 year durability, and says right on the tube Safe for Aquariums.


Is it black?

[Carrera75]

Here's a quick question..

When you made the transfer, did you re-use the water or sand? or both?

Maybe instead of blaming the silicone, it might have been the process of the transfer that caused the problem?

Aussie Gold Torch, Neon Green and Blue Wall Hammer, Orange Frogspawn, Galaxia are definately susceptible to bacteria issues. I know I have lost frogspawns by just sand landing on them.

The silicone with mildew inhibiter is definately a factor.

I apologise if someone already asked.

Ken - BWA


I used half of the water and no, I didn't use the old sand. I know it's the silicone for sure. This transfer was super very well planned and did everything way better than other previous transfers. Just for the record.....I have even lost some Ricordeas and mushrooms and these guys are almost indestructible. It's the silicone....I got in touh with GE and they confirmed that the silicone is NOT safe for aquariums.

[unclesalty]

Where did you buy it and is it black?






Is it black?

Yes I bought the black- #1203. I bought it here in Regina from a construction supply place called brock white

[Mandosh]

There used to be a Brock White in Burnaby -- Lougheed and Willingdon area. If it's not there you could try somewhere like Fastenal or Acklands.

[Reef Pilot]

Where did you buy it and is it black?






Is it black?
The stuff from Home Hardware was Clear. Didn't look to see if they had any other colours,

[BlueWorldAquatic]

Acklands Grainger should have Ge1200

or look up any store the Trade/Builers go to.

Ken

[intarsiabox]

I totally agree! AGA silicone is GE I to be exact

I hope you're right. I just used some to put my baffles in a sump tank using GE I. After reading this post I looked at the tube and it says not for use on "food contact surfaces, aquariums". The tube only says it contains 100% silicone rubber and nothing about mildew resistance.

[fishytime]

I hope you're right. I just used some to put my baffles in a sump tank using GE I. After reading this post I looked at the tube and it says not for use on "food contact surfaces, aquariums". The tube only says it contains 100% silicone rubber and nothing about mildew resistance.

Kinda my point..... If it doesn't say for aquarium use, then I wouldn't use it..... No matter what a forum says..... To much to risk for $10

[intarsiabox]

Kinda my point..... If it doesn't say for aquarium use, then I wouldn't use it..... No matter what a forum says..... To much to risk for $10

Yeah, I've used it many times before without issue and to be honest the print is so small I never even saw the part about not for aquariums. Money wasn't a factor, having to spent an hour + in traffic just for 1 tube of silcone from a LFS store compared to 5 minutes to Home Depot was.

[intarsiabox]

I did some digging and found out that All-Glass silicone is not made by GE, it is a product of DOW Corning. So I called the GE toll free line (866)-ASK-GESA and asked them about Silicone I (you get through right away). The answer I got was that none of the GE silicones are aquarium safe due to chemicals used and none are made to be continually submerged in water as the silicone will weaken. This being said I couldn't find anything about anyone ever having any problems with Silicone I but plenty of problems with Silicone II.

[jagermaier]

I did some digging and found out that All-Glass silicone is not made by GE, it is a product of DOW Corning. So I called the GE toll free line (866)-ASK-GESA and asked them about Silicone I (you get through right away). The answer I got was that none of the GE silicones are aquarium safe due to chemicals used and none are made to be continually submerged in water as the silicone will weaken. This being said I couldn't find anything about anyone ever having any problems with Silicone I but plenty of problems with Silicone II.

GE will never say that any of their products are aquarium safe for liability reasons. As mentioned the GE SCS1200 has been used by an aquarium builder that I personally know exclusively for 15 + years as well as I have used it myself and there have never been a problem. Stay away from products that have mold inhibitors in it as this will kill everything and GE's silicone II probably has chemical in it. GE silicone 1 used to be safe but I do not know for sure if it still is as they may have included chemical to it also.

[ScubaSteve]

So the official word from GE is that all GEII silicones now contain petroleum distillates as a mildew inhibitor. Unofficially, this hasn't always been the case. My friend used to be a chemist for GE and he has told me several times now that only the Kitchen and bath version had this. He's surprised that we're even having this problem and didn't know abou the switch. So it seems they've changed it in the last year and a half or so, and this is why so many people have used it in the past without issue.

On all of the GEII bottles I have it says 100% silicone and makes no mention of the 1 to 5% mildew inhibitors. I guess it's too hard to write "95% of this product is 100% silicone". Previously only the GEI and GEII kitchen and bath had the inhibitors; seems like the "premium" line of GEII only now carries his option.

When I chose GEII for my tank I did so for strength and quality rather than price, and on the recommendations from several reefers and a guy who used to work with the stuff. The chemistry behind GEII allows for a better bond to glass and has less tendency for the inside seems to peel away from the glass with age, so you don't get the tattered look some old tanks get. It also has more give to it while being stronger and has better resistance to the elements (ie. Salt water). This formula though evolves ammonia rather than acetate; however, it is "supposed" to cure much faster. It is spposed to be minimum 3 hours to water ready, 8 hours to moderate strength and 24 hours to fully cure. Bare in mind this is not accounting for the evolved ammonia to dissipate. I've seen several threads where people make emergency repairs with GEII and fill the back up with water in 8 hours without I'll effect. Most tanks "should" be able to handle the relatively small cycle caused bathe ammonia is there was some still there. When I built my tank I let it cure for almost a week and a half, filled it with water for 48 hours twice and gave it angood clean... And I still had a problem when I transferred, so I doubt it was the ammonia and likely an effect of the inhibitors. Big tanks probably notice this less due to dilution. Had it been more readily available to me I would have gone with a RTV silicone that was aquariums safe, but since it wasn't GEII was the strongest, supposedly "safe" product available to me.

When I swapped my tank there were 7 other more probable causes for my problems (temperature swing due to a faulty heater, reusing old sand, broken skimmer shaft so only a small back-up skimmer, etc), so I never suspected the silicone. Seeing what is happening in this tank and having got this other bit of info this morning from GE, I am more suspicious of GEII being the cause but bottom line is: it's officially not reef-safe.

The inhibitors may have caused die off of microfauna which may explain the ammonia spike, rather than ammonia from the silicone itself. If anyone is reading this and having problems with GEII, run lots carbon to remove the inhibitors that may be leeching into the water column. The direct effects of whatever was happening seemed to dissipate within a couple weeks in my tank and was just a long road to recovery. They tank is healthy and happy now and the corals are growing like weeds like nothing ever happened, so it doesnt look like there are major long term effects from the silicone (if that was the cause), just an initial hit.

[Carrera75]

The direct effects of whatever was happening seemed to dissipate within a couple weeks in my tank and was just a long road to recovery. They tank is healthy and happy now and the corals are growing like weeds like nothing ever happened, so it doesnt look like there are major long term effects from the silicone (if that was the cause), just an initial hit.

Yeah but before your tank recovered you lost 90% of your corals. That's a though thing to swallow. Oh, and I not a scientist but I am pretty sure the silicone is responsible for what's going on in my tank....there is no other reasonable explanation for it.

Anyway, I finally got home after running around the city all the day picking up stuff that I'll need to shut down the tank and remove the silicone. Wish me luck.

[bkelly]

are all your corals ding well now, how longs it been, GE emailed me back and said the Mildew inhibitor in Silicone II lasts for 5 years. Im wondering if this effects the reef. My tanks has also recovered except a couple corals (one acan/one duncan) its been over a month. So the official word from GE is that all GEII silicones now contain petroleum distillates as a mildew inhibitor. Unofficially, this hasn't always been the case. My friend used to be a chemist for GE and he has told me several times now that only the Kitchen and bath version had this. He's surprised that we're even having this problem and didn't know abou the switch. So it seems they've changed it in the last year and a half or so, and this is why so many people have used it in the past without issue.

On all of the GEII bottles I have it says 100% silicone and makes no mention of the 1 to 5% mildew inhibitors. I guess it's too hard to write "95% of this product is 100% silicone". Previously only the GEI and GEII kitchen and bath had the inhibitors; seems like the "premium" line of GEII only now carries his option.

When I chose GEII for my tank I did so for strength and quality rather than price, and on the recommendations from several reefers and a guy who used to work with the stuff. The chemistry behind GEII allows for a better bond to glass and has less tendency for the inside seems to peel away from the glass with age, so you don't get the tattered look some old tanks get. It also has more give to it while being stronger and has better resistance to the elements (ie. Salt water). This formula though evolves ammonia rather than acetate; however, it is "supposed" to cure much faster. It is spposed to be minimum 3 hours to water ready, 8 hours to moderate strength and 24 hours to fully cure. Bare in mind this is not accounting for the evolved ammonia to dissipate. I've seen several threads where people make emergency repairs with GEII and fill the back up with water in 8 hours without I'll effect. Most tanks "should" be able to handle the relatively small cycle caused bathe ammonia is there was some still there. When I built my tank I let it cure for almost a week and a half, filled it with water for 48 hours twice and gave it angood clean... And I still had a problem when I transferred, so I doubt it was the ammonia and likely an effect of the inhibitors. Big tanks probably notice this less due to dilution. Had it been more readily available to me I would have gone with a RTV silicone that was aquariums safe, but since it wasn't GEII was the strongest, supposedly "safe" product available to me.

When I swapped my tank there were 7 other more probable causes for my problems (temperature swing due to a faulty heater, reusing old sand, broken skimmer shaft so only a small back-up skimmer, etc), so I never suspected the silicone. Seeing what is happening in this tank and having got this other bit of info this morning from GE, I am more suspicious of GEII being the cause but bottom line is: it's officially not reef-safe.

The inhibitors may have caused die off of microfauna which may explain the ammonia spike, rather than ammonia from the silicone itself. If anyone is reading this and having problems with GEII, run lots carbon to remove the inhibitors that may be leeching into the water column. The direct effects of whatever was happening seemed to dissipate within a couple weeks in my tank and was just a long road to recovery. They tank is healthy and happy now and the corals are growing like weeds like nothing ever happened, so it doesnt look like there are major long term effects from the silicone (if that was the cause), just an initial hit.

[dreef]

I've only ever used GE1 and let it cure for 2 days,zero problems or loses.

[ScubaSteve]

are all your corals ding well now, how longs it been, GE emailed me back and said the Mildew inhibitor in Silicone II lasts for 5 years. Im wondering if this effects the reef. My tanks has also recovered except a couple corals (one acan/one duncan) its been over a month.

I made the swap over in early October to the new tank. The day after the swap I had my blue mille colony die. A few days after that I had a monti cap recede and was gone a few days after. After that I had a smaller tenuis colony start to recede and I lost part of my purple bonsai. My big green pocci had issues before the swap and slowly faded away over a month or so. These big colonies were about 90% of my SPS, though I still had several big colonies left. Other SPS were looking stressed and I had no PE in them for a few weeks but over time they've bounced back and are growing again. Strangely, during all of this my purple pocci, pink lemonade acro, zoas and pavona were unaffected and grew like weeds (the purple pocci has doubled in size since the swap). I even had a bonsai frag from the dying colony almost encrust the entire plug in just over a week and a chalice grew about 50% in 2 months.

Mid November I was correcting the tank for low mag by slowly dosing over the course of a week and a bit (going from 1000 to 1300 ppm over 9 days). Near the end of this I had a bunch of brittle stars "die". Some died, most recovered. I suspect this may have been from dosing with magnesium sulphate heptahydrate (which can anesthetize inverts) rather than mag chloride/mag sulphate. Brittle stars seem back to normal.

I would say it's been almost three months and everything is back to normal except for my duncan and a monti (which is on the mend). The duncan never really opened again and a few weeks back it just died in a matter of days. The monti cap has been looking rough but has been growing; it seems on its way back to health.

Overall, I'd say within a month to month and a half things were more or less back to normal but my nutrients were still high (nitrates ~10 ppm). After 5 weeks of vodka dosing my params are near zero and that alone has seemed to have had the greatest impact. I have full PE on all my SPS and everything seems to be growing nicely. Over the early few weeks of the whole ordeal I had the symptoms of a cycle (diatoms, etc) but never detected an ammonia or nitrite spike despite testing daily starting on day 3, so I was at a loss at to what was happening unless I missed a spike on the very first day.

So the mildew inhibitor affect the reef? Well, as you can see from this thread and yours and my experience, yes. Long term? I can't really say. My new tank now seems healthier than any system I've had before despite a few healing war wounds and the growing pains of a new reef. Over the past 4 to 5 weeks I haven't seen anything that would suggest that it is still having an effect on my system.

[Casey8]

Yeah but before your tank recovered you lost 90% of your corals. That's a though thing to swallow. Oh, and I not a scientist but I am pretty sure the silicone is responsible for what's going on in my tank....there is no other reasonable explanation for it.

Anyway, I finally got home after running around the city all the day picking up stuff that I'll need to shut down the tank and remove the silicone. Wish me luck.


Very sorry to know your loss, Daniel. I am wishing you have a best luck this time.

[Carrera75]

Very sorry to know your loss, Daniel. I am wishing you have a best luck this time.

Hey Robert,

Thanks for your encouraging words. I have learned a costly lesson here. Do your own research and never trust anybody entirely.


Thank is being shut down as we speak. I am not going to wait a few weeks hoping that everything will be ok or better than ever.

[toytech]

Wow that sucks , sorry about your corals. I just set up a cube that i re-sealed with black ge silicon 2 and even after compleatly drying out my live rock so i could epoxy it , there was minimal amonnia . I have tried to introduce a couple of sps frags only to have them bleach and rtn though.If ge is really putting extra stuff in there 100 % silicone im p***** how is it 100% if theres other crap in it.

[Casey8]

Hey Robert,

Thanks for your encouraging words. I have learned a costly lesson here. Do your own research and never trust anybody entirely.


Thank is being shut down as we speak. I am not going to wait a few weeks hoping that everything will be ok or better than ever.


Lessons that I had learned was always costly and followed with painful memories. Anything bad that has happened to you recently, just think it will be left behind this year. The new year comes to you in a few days, I am sure you will be able to set up a beautiful tank again.

[Carrera75]

Lessons that I had learned was always costly and followed with painful memories. Anything bad that has happened to you recently, just think it will be left behind this year. The new year comes to you in a few days, I am sure you will be able to set up a beautiful tank again.

Not sure I still have what it takes to run a great tank. I am tired, very tired, frustrated, sometimes angry and just sick of this ordeal. Tank was shut down tonight and all the livestock was placed in a holding tank. I am not looking forward to setting up the tank again. Life is going to get pretty busy for me in about a week and I don't really need the stress of dealing with the tank.

Stay tuned and check the livestock and equipment forum in the next few days or week(s) as I might post all my livestock and equipment for sale. I still have some really cool corals (lots of colorful Ricordeas, zoas...etc) that could be up for grabs soon.

I feel that perhaps it's time to move on.....am tired.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

PMs sent my friend.

Don't give up. Maybe take a breather but even though sometimes this addiction can beat us down with stuff like this, I believe that you can overcome this setback and create a new tank that will blow us away.

Anthony

[Aquattro]

Just an FYI, I found the tube I used and it was the Window and Door stuff...about 14 months old...crappy that they can change the formula, since I would also tell anyone it's fine, having used it myself..

[no_bs]

Just an FYI, I found the tube I used and it was the Window and Door stuff...about 14 months old...crappy that they can change the formula, since I would also tell anyone it's fine, having used it myself..

Dito, as i still have 2 tubes of GE 1 black.

[Werbo]

Hang in there. No need to rush. Keep the corals/fish in your holding tank a couple months if you can keep them "healthy."

I talk from experience. I just went through 18 months battling dino's.

Anyone who can bring a vision to life as you did has a true talent. Keep your livestock in a minamialist set-up. If you have the knowledge, equipment and livestock you will get the bug again soon and make a full comback.

[lastlight]

Did the GE1 recipe also change?

It was GE1 Window/Door I believe that was always referred to as reef safe (far more often than GE2 Window/Door). I used GE1 clear when I resealed my sump. Tank is doing great but I do have strange NEON YELLOW growth on the silicone only lol...?

[paddyob]

Shiotty deal.

Goes to show that sometimes it's better to spend your money on the proper stuff then find out you should have later.

Best of luck. But are you positive nothing else could have caused it? I would feel if it was leeching into the water, then it's probably already absorbed by the rocks and whatnot. Might be too late for everything if that's the case.

I never read the whole thread, but I assume you tested all your parameters.

Crappy.

Again, good luck.

[paddyob]

Not sure I still have what it takes to run a great tank. I am tired, very tired, frustrated, sometimes angry and just sick of this ordeal. Tank was shut down tonight and all the livestock was placed in a holding tank. I am not looking forward to setting up the tank again. Life is going to get pretty busy for me in about a week and I don't really need the stress of dealing with the tank.

Stay tuned and check the livestock and equipment forum in the next few days or week(s) as I might post all my livestock and equipment for sale. I still have some really cool corals (lots of colorful Ricordeas, zoas...etc) that could be up for grabs soon.




I feel that perhaps it's time to move on.....am tired.


Don't give up. V

[Aquattro]

Did the GE1 recipe also change?



Don't think so. I used the GE II, no issues. Typically I use GE I, but couldn't find it in black, so after searching a bit, I saw a few people used it, so I bought it myself.

[Aquaria]

I used GE1 clear when I resealed my sump. Tank is doing great but I do have strange NEON YELLOW growth on the silicone only lol...?

I had the same thing happen to me about a year. Ago and I replaced the silicone because it scared me looks like neon yellow/green spot algea

[Casey8]

Not sure I still have what it takes to run a great tank. I am tired, very tired, frustrated, sometimes angry and just sick of this ordeal. Tank was shut down tonight and all the livestock was placed in a holding tank. I am not looking forward to setting up the tank again. Life is going to get pretty busy for me in about a week and I don't really need the stress of dealing with the tank.

Stay tuned and check the livestock and equipment forum in the next few days or week(s) as I might post all my livestock and equipment for sale. I still have some really cool corals (lots of colorful Ricordeas, zoas...etc) that could be up for grabs soon.

I feel that perhaps it's time to move on.....am tired.

Daniel, hang on there, please don't throw in the towel. I have seen a lot of experienced reefkeepers on here had had their tanks crash at least once or even twice in their life. I, myself too, the last tank I had crashed earlier this year, I lost all my fish and more than 2/3 of my corals. I was wishing if I would have lost everything, all the corals but the fish, I was attached to them very much. With all my cheap, old, out of date stuff like lights, skimmer, powerheads that I am having today ... I am the one was suppose to shut down this hobby at that time. But I love this hobby, I don't need to show off my tank or equipment to anyone, I enjoy myself. If you really like this hobby, not because of this time your tank crashed, you give it up. I know you are very frustrated right now because I went through just like you, but I can see a lot of supports you are getting from this thread and people are caring for you. Try to do your best, Daniel. I am wishing you everything is going fine for you and a good New Year ahead.

[tinman]

i just go to home hardware and purchase tubes of their brand (weather shield) 3 tubes for 20 bucks, maybe it is ge, don't really care says right on the tube safe for aquariums been holding back 200 plus gallons of water and rock so far. i've used it on all sorts of aquariums for years and never had any trouble, call me crazy but i know what works for me. just my 2 cents.

[tim the toolman]

I'm with tin man. I bought the green tubes from home hardware in a 3 pack and it says aquarium silicone right on the tube. Have put together many tanks and dumps with it and never had a problem. It is also very low in cost (about 14$ for 3 tubes) and readily available.

[Borderjumper]

How are things going Daniel?

[Carrera75]

How are things going Daniel?

Hi Shelley,

Tank was shut down last Thursday and corals were placed in a holding tank. Nothing has died since they were placed in the holding tank and they seem to be doing better but it will be a while before they completely bounce back.

Thanks for inquiring.

D

[unclesalty]

Just putting my overflow together this afternoon and I am totally amazed on how very little of smell/odor the SCS1200 silcone has. Kind of makes sense why its reef safe.

[Aquattro]

Just putting my overflow together this afternoon and I am totally amazed on how very little of smell/odor the SCS1200 silcone has. Kind of makes sense why its reef safe.

Don't quote me on it, but I'm pretty sure the 1200 isn't silicone, I thought it was just a silicone like adhesive...I could be making that up though..:razz:

[Aquattro]

Hmm, just looked it up, and it's called silicone, so shows I know nothing -lol

[tim the toolman]

has anyone actually built anything with the new formula scs1200 and had it hold underwate for any durtion though?? I have been told that the scs1200 though it is a silicone it is not long lasting when submersed for long durations??

[unclesalty]

Don't quote me on it, but I'm pretty sure the 1200 isn't silicone, I thought it was just a silicone like adhesive...I could be making that up though..:razz:

You are correct as its a construction silicone adhesive!

[The Grizz]

Your half right there Brad, it is a silicone but it is made for industrial construction.

[The Grizz]

has anyone actually built anything with the new formula scs1200 and had it hold underwate for any durtion though?? I have been told that the scs1200 though it is a silicone it is not long lasting when submersed for long durations??

I built my 116 gal with it & I know Concepts use it on all there builds.

[tim the toolman]

and how long ago was that built? I went to use scs1200 originally but was scared off of it when i read that it was not aquarium safe.

[The Grizz]

The 116gal has been up since June & my office tank since August. I also know of several other people who's tank were built using SCS 1200 that have been up twice as long.

[tim the toolman]

Thats good to know then as I have a tube of it lying around here. I ended up using a product with less adhesive strength only because it said aquarium safe on it lol. I guess i know better next time.