Newbie to sw

[Kimmi7]

So I have this empty 77 gallon that I want to make in to a reef tank. I have been reading up and am aware of what it's going to cost to start up. So like all newbies I will be picking your brains for any and all information. Now I am a newbie to sw but not fish keeping. As is I have 4 running tanks. Two have freshwater shrimp, one has freshwater crayfish and a lonely crab. My fav has 13 angels all different kinds and sits in livingroom. So here's my ideas for the tank.

I want a brightly coloured reef tank with just as brightly coloured fish and such.

I know to have corals of each kind you need great lighting. So question number one: t5 ho's do they work for sw?
Question two: I am doing a sump as it seems the best way to go. Now Where do I drill the holes on the tank? Best places to do


Feel free to add any information or links that you have tht could help a newbie out!!!!!

[Madreefer]

Lots of people use T5's with great success.

Hard to answer your second question without knowing specifics. I'm sure if you put up a pic of the tank and sump to be drilled, than some of those that are good at those drawings with computers will be willing to help. You came to the right place for help. Lots of helpful and knowledgable people here.

[lpsreefer]

You don't need to drill the tank. To have an overflow. You can make one from PVC. If you YouTube "saltwater DIY overflows" there's a lot of videos of it and how to drill for what type of overflow.

T5 Hos are fine.

Welcome to saltwater!

[Kimmi7]

its a 4' long by about 2' tall and 18" wide tank. I dont have a sump yet as I am not sure what size to go with, was thinking 20g tall to a 30g tall. I'd like to have the type of sump that has the eco system in itself. I was thinking of drilling the holes on each end of the tank on the sides, as this will be in the family room and i have room for pipes on any sides. Thanks for the welcome. It actually was my boyfriends idea for a sw tank and we do have the empty one just sitting there lol

[intarsiabox]

T5HO fixtures are fine for SW. A 6-8 bulb 54W fixture would allow you to grow most corals with proper placement and give you enough sockets to put different types of bulbs in to create an effect that you like personally and will grow coral. There are many brands and colors that people like and numerous threads about color combinations that people use.

As far as drilling holes there are many options, one hole in each bottom corner, 2 holes in one bottom corner , a hole in each top back corner, etc. It depends on what type of overflow system you choose. There are durso's, herbie's and bean animal's most commonly. The return line doesn't need to be drilled if you don't want, just use a couple of PVC 90 elbows to have it hang over the top edge of the tank.

Lots of info to research and choose from out there, good luck!

[intarsiabox]

its a 4' long by about 2' tall and 18" wide tank. I dont have a sump yet as I am not sure what size to go with, was thinking 20g tall to a 30g tall. I'd like to have the type of sump that has the eco system in itself. I was thinking of drilling the holes on each end of the tank on the sides, as this will be in the family room and i have room for pipes on any sides. Thanks for the welcome. It actually was my boyfriends idea for a sw tank and we do have the empty one just sitting there lol

When designing your sump leave enough room in the top section to fill up with water from the display tank when your return pump gets shut off. Your return line will siphon water back down into the sump until it drains the main tank down far enough to let air into the line, thus breaking the siphon. A check valve can prevent this but check valves can fail and you will be thankfull that the sump can handle the backflow.

A sort of related subject is hang on the back overflows that use a siphon system. Some people use these so they don't have to drill the tank. The draw back is that if the siphon fails your return pump will still keep pumping water out of your sump until it is dry and will likely overflow your display tank onto your floor.

[Edmonton newbie]

those dimentions are for a 90 gal tank. as far as a sump i would look at as big as you can to fit in the stand. 6 bulb t5 fixture will be more than enough to get you up and running. just remember you need to replace those bulbs evry 8-12 months. start slow and be patient. i know it was stated earlier but i would look at building the overflow rather than drilling this tank, when the upgrade bug bites in 6 or 8 months then you can have one built to your specs with the overflow that you decide you like lol

[Vitaminz]

Here is my 2 cents worth...ok maybe alot more cents then that, but who is counting???

If you are going to drill, make sure the type of glass you drilling into (aka don't drill into tempered glass) I would also recommend drilling in the bottom if possible so it is gravity feed, but if the bottom is tempered, then you will have to drill in the sides. I have done the overflow thing before and flooded my office on the second floor. Wasn't a pretty situation. If you are going to drill make sure you place bulk heads inside the tank, to prevent overflowing if a pump fails.

As for lights, I have run both T5HO and MH and to be honest, I would go back to the MH every time. Just the shimmer it produces and the growth in corals, you can't beat. In saying that, my current light is both T5HO and MH, best of both worlds. My recommendation is spend the money on a good lighting set-up, or be forever caught up in the upgrading path as I was. Good colour coral requires good lighting.

Anyways that is my cents worth, you will find vary opinions when it comes to this hobby, and what works for one tank, might not work for somebody else's.

Jeff

[Kimmi7]

well looks like I will be putting this on hold till I find a new tank. Mine looks like tempered glass and dont want to try to see if it isnt by drilling. Oh well just means I can go bigger for my angels, then get bigger with the reef tank.

So what is the benfits of moon lighting on a reef tank? I will be saving up for a great light set now that I am going with a different tank, as I dont like the look of hob anything anymore that i found canister filters. (will be doing sump)

With drilling into the bottom wouldnt that cause a overflow when and if power goes out? as water runs downhill lol. just dont want to have to pull up carpet in the new house just yet.

So if I was going to do a 90-125 gallon tank, I believe I would be needing around 1000gh for movement to get 7x hr?

[RedCoralEdmonton]

Hi Kimmi,

If you want come down to the store and I can give you the crash course in salt water keeping and setup options! As well we have a brand new predrilled eurobraced 90 for sale for $315, and predrilled eurobraced 75s for $247.50! this week only!

Steve

[Edmonton newbie]

bout time one of you piped in here steve lol kimmi go see steve and if you watch the posts on here we have meets just about every month and you should really drag the hubby out for a breakfast and or lunch with the reef crew next meeting

[marlincoral]

if you have patience get everyting you need on canreef it is alot cheaper and when you go to pick stuff up you can look at their tank and get ideas. My wife and I just started back up in the hobby and we just got rock a little while ago and paid $3.00/lb the stores want $8.00/lb and it is not half as good as a reefer that is selling rock.We just upgraded out lights from t5 to halide we paid $275.00 for the light the same light at an unnamed store was $895.00 on boxing day.If there is something you want just post it and wait someone will respond. Good luck and I hope you enjoy the hobby

[sully08]

I spent a good part of 2011 changing my 220g from fresh to salt. I had lots of fun doing it and got some great ideas from can-reef members. I had my tank drilled and I use about 480w of T5 H/O lighting to answer your questions. I have some pics. posted in one of my postings from June. Take a look if you like and feel free to ask any questions.

[Kimmi7]

Ok so I have a question about powerheads. How many do you guys use? I see there are some made for bigger aquariums and they arent badly priced. I was thinking tho that having two one on each end would be good to help with feeding corals better then having one going one way. Correct me if I am wrong. Also I will be having everything under the tank and am honestly thinking of a 120 gallon, 48x24x24. So I am unsure how big of a return pump I would need.

[mike31154]

well looks like I will be putting this on hold till I find a new tank. Mine looks like tempered glass and dont want to try to see if it isnt by drilling.

Perhaps not, unless you really wish to spend money on a newer, larger tank. IME, tank ends up being least of cost in the hobby in the long run, but every little saving helps, so up to you.

If your 77 is a Hagen, according to the FAQs on their web page, none of their tanks use tempered glass. A way to confirm tempered is to use two polarized filters, one from outside of pane (polarized sunglasses) looking at a polarized LCD screen (like a notebook or even phone) with a white screen. Rotate the screen & if pattern appears on white LCD screen, glass is tempered.

http://faq.hagencrm.com/details.asp?kbfaqid=21880&en

My 77 is a Hagen (company sticker on trim, no center brace) & the width is 16 & 1/8th inches, glass thickness is 3/8 inches. I plan to drill it & use as a sump/refuge when I upgrade display tank some time in future. I've already drilled a used 65 gallon for a sump as well (confirmed non tempered sides with polarized trick), not that difficult, especially when it's empty & sitting around doing nothing. Bottom of the 65 is tempered, & a sticker there says that. I also confirmed this with polarized filter method.

[Kimmi7]

Thanks for that info! guess I will use it still

[sully08]

Ok so I have a question about powerheads. How many do you guys use? I see there are some made for bigger aquariums and they arent badly priced. I was thinking tho that having two one on each end would be good to help with feeding corals better then having one going one way. Correct me if I am wrong. Also I will be having everything under the tank and am honestly thinking of a 120 gallon, 48x24x24. So I am unsure how big of a return pump I would need.

I flow about 6000-6500 gallons an hour around my 220g. My return pump is 1500, my closed loop is 2000 and 2 tunze's, one at each end of the tank, for a total of 2700 between both. I find that this is more than enough for me. I have adjusted the flow direction many times to get it perfect to eliminate dead spots. I have talked to some people that would come close to doubling the flow that I have. I don't know how they do it without blowing sand all over the tank. I have found the best way is to bounce flows off of each other and off the glass also helps. My 2 cents

[Kimmi7]

So i am thinking a 20 gallon sump is as big as i want to go. I would go bigger but I need places to store my other items as my puppy chews anything and everything lol. So heres the question of the day. The tank I am wanting to use is a 20 gallon tall. So I am thinking intake, refugium, return pump. All seperated by 2 baffles from intake to refugium, then two more to the return pump.


As for equipment I am thinking, a bubble magus skimmer, hydro koralia power heads and mag drive pump.

Powerheads will be at least 750gph each, pump 1800gph. That should give me at flow rate of close to 20x's in a 77gal. Should this be enough to keep a reef tank and not just a fish tank. Also I am not sure I want to buy a RO/DI unit yet so I am wondering if I use prime and let the water sit for awhile in a holding barrel, would that be ok? Just we need a new window in our livingroom before a RO/DI unit.

[sully08]

It seems that the majority of the people that I have talked to go with the RO/DI unit. It removes alot of the organic material from the water that can cause undesirable algae later on. I got a good one from J&L (100gal an hour) beside my regular water changes (20% every 3 weeks) I make about 20 gallons a week of RO/DI water because of evaporation. I still get a little algae, but its controlable.

[Kimmi7]

Ya my front window gets done first. Then it's a ro/di unit.

[gregzz4]

If you want to learn more about overflows and such, I did a write-up on another site ... this is it

I recently sold my Freshwater gear and started a long research project about overflows as I am going Saltwater. I learned a lot over the last couple of months, so I hope you read my entire post and it's included links http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

First, you shouldn't try to completely replace your in-tank flow with just a return pump. You may end up with low-flow areas or dead-spots you don't want or didn't plan on.
You could get very involved with a manifold return, with many outputs pointing every which way, but you are also then relying on just one pump for the health of your charges.

The 'U' style overflows work, but rely on a 'lifter' pump to restart when the return pump is powered back on. Relying on the pump to restart when, say, you aren't home, could starve your fishies and beneficial bacteria of oxygen.
You also have to consider the risk of your overflow becoming slowed or blocked and your return pump draining your sump while it is subsequently overflowing your DT http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif

There are DIY PVC pipe setups
My DIY PVC OVERFLOW TUBE (http://www.angelfire.com/ab/rayjay/DIYoverflow.html)

And there are DIY overflow boxes
DIY Overflow Box (http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/overflow.html)

Now, about drilling and so on...

Be very careful where you drill your tank as many, or even most, tanks have tempered bottoms and you will destroy it as it can't be drilled. Drilling the back is a great option. I have included for you some links so you can explore your options. I suggest you take your time and absorb all 3 options I linked as they all have their benefits and drawbacks, such as;
noise, placement, tank-to-wall clearance, flooding, and cost.

This first link is cheap and quick
Complete Overflow Kits - Glass-Holes.com dope aquarium stuff (http://www.glass-holes.com/Complete-Overflow-Kits_c3.htm)

This second link is to what's known as the 'herbie method', and I have provided for you the designer's original post. You can find compressed explanations if you search the web for Herbie Overflow
This method is nearest to fail-safe
NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!! - Reef Central Online Community (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344892)

And the fail-safe, no flooding ever method...barring your overflow box doesn't leak http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
BeanAnimal's Bar and Grill - Silent and Fail-Safe Overflow System (http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx/)

Once you thoroughly read through these, and others you find on the web you should have a better idea what you really want to do.

Take your time planning this as it's a big decision.
Good luck,
Greg

[Doug]

http://96.31.76.198/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=40

Perhaps some useful info here also.

[marlincoral]

When we first started we didnt have RO water the mother-in-law worked at a carwash and they used RO for the spot free rinse and we used to fill up jugs and bring them home

[e46er]

start with RODI water and save headaches
make sure your sump has enough room for your skimmer footprint and a little bit extra for a safety net
a 20 G tank will not have enough room for a skimmer section/fuge section/ return section
you will want to make the return section as large as possible as this is where you will see the evaporation occur not as important if you use an auto top off

external pumps are more reliable in my experince but more $$
get a big enough return pump to run reactors for carbon, GFO, Pellets so much easier than individual powerheads running them

and for flow it really depends on what types of corals you want to keep and your rock placement and powerhead placement
i have around 8000 gph in my 120G tank

[Kimmi7]

ok so I have actually am looking at building in internal overflow if able. Only thing is I haven't been able to find good informaton on how to go about that.

Has anyone on here done that?

Also does anyone on here use the uv water treatment that you can get at hd for around 500$?

[mike31154]

Don't think too many people in marine hobby use UV water treatment, but the vast majority do use RODI water for mixing fresh SW & top up. Given the choice between spending $500 on UV treatment as opposed to $250 for a quality RODI system, I'll bet most folks in the hobby would choose the RODI. A side benefit of having a RODI system is having pure RO water available for drinking, cooking, ice cubes, making beer/wine/soda pop, topping up car batteries, radiators.....

[hillegom]

Don't think too many people in marine hobby use UV water treatment, but the vast majority do use RODI water for mixing fresh SW & top up. Given the choice between spending $500 on UV treatment as opposed to $250 for a quality RODI system, I'll bet most folks in the hobby would choose the RODI. A side benefit of having a RODI system is having pure RO water available for drinking, cooking, ice cubes, making beer/wine/soda pop, topping up car batteries, radiators.....

+1
RO/DI is way more important. Whether you buy a filter system (recommended) or buy ro water from the store. There won't be any DOCs in the water (dissolved organic compounds). These would fuel algae. Keep looking in the classifieds here and elsewhere and you will buy cheaper. New filters and you are good to go.

[Kimmi7]

So I got a 90 gallon today already drilled from another member, along with a 30 to use for the sump. So does anyone know of any places in edmonton that would make internal overflow boxes? hoping for some place on the northside of the river.

thanks

[sully08]

Very easy to do, I did my own and it worked out great. If you would like to have someone do it I know Marine Aquaria would probably build one and install it for you. not sure on what they would charge. If you want some pics. of mine let me know and I will send them to you and you can see how easy it is.

[sunoka]

What make is the tank ?? odds are the glass is not tempered and if it is it will likely only be tempered on the bottom if any. I have a 77 gal and there is not a pc. of temp glass.



well looks like I will be putting this on hold till I find a new tank. Mine looks like tempered glass and dont want to try to see if it isnt by drilling. Oh well just means I can go bigger for my angels, then get bigger with the reef tank.

So what is the benfits of moon lighting on a reef tank? I will be saving up for a great light set now that I am going with a different tank, as I dont like the look of hob anything anymore that i found canister filters. (will be doing sump)

With drilling into the bottom wouldnt that cause a overflow when and if power goes out? as water runs downhill lol. just dont want to have to pull up carpet in the new house just yet.

So if I was going to do a 90-125 gallon tank, I believe I would be needing around 1000gh for movement to get 7x hr?

[tang daddy]

So I got a 90 gallon today already drilled from another member, along with a 30 to use for the sump. So does anyone know of any places in edmonton that would make internal overflow boxes? hoping for some place on the northside of the river.

thanks


Building an overflow box is very easy, you can go to your local glass store a pick up a few pieces of glass, silicone and masking tape and away you go... I am sure there are reefers in your area willing to give you a hand in building if you are unsure.

[tim the toolman]

i bought black lexan (plexi-glass) at Rona and built my own quite easily. the lexan gives you a much easier product to cut and drill then the glass does and it also comes solid clack which is more estheticly pleasing. Home Hardware sells an inexpensive and reliable aquarium safe silicone which bonded extremely well to the lexan. Others on here may disagree as I am fairly new to the saltwater fishkeeping myself?



180 gallon reef with 120g DIY sump w homemade stand and overflow