Stores loose money on Boxing Day sales?

[mark]

if not, sure be nice to see these prices all the time.

[H22_TURBO]

agreed!!!

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

It's not so much the cost of the fish, corals and supplies that is expensive but the crazy cost of transportation that hurts the bottom line. For instance, a few hundred dollars worth of livestock can easily be over $1000 in shipping, transhipping fees, etc.

[MarkoD]

They lose money on one or 2 products which are "door crashers" and then they rape you on everything else.

Trust me, I sold home theatre equipment for 5 years.

The tv is at cost or just below cost. But the cables, hd box, warranty, etc have a lot of markup

Same thing with fish stuff. Most people that bought 30 dollar boxes of salt probably ended up spending on other things that had markup for sure

[MarkoD]

It's not so much the cost of the fish, corals and supplies that is expensive but the crazy cost of transportation that hurts the bottom line. For instance, a few hundred dollars worth of livestock can easily be over $1000 in shipping, transhipping fees, etc.

Shipping is expensive on livestock because its time sensitive. But dry goods are way cheaper to ship

[msjboy]

I think typical dry goods on a day to day basis have at least a 50% to 60% markup... as for corals and fish, it's probably 50% ( before shipping).

Stuff like groceries at the big box markets could be as low as 2% but they have huge volumes.

msjboy

[MarkoD]

I think it's more like 30% on dry goods and 50% on livestock

[Mrfish55]

I think it's more like 30% on dry goods and 50% on livestock

Any business running on that margin will not be in business for long, commercial overhead is costly, the sales you see this time of year are typical for business looking to unload excess inventory from Christmas, anyone that has ever worked retail will tell you Jan and Feb are usually pretty lean months. That being said it is nice to score a deal or two for those who have any money left after Cashmas.

[Aquattro]

Any business running on that margin will not be in business for long...

Absolutely! I'd figure another 0 on the end of those figures. Some higher end stuff is marked up less, 10 or 20%, but some dry goods are marked up 100% or more. Livestock can be up to 300% or more. figure costs of shipping, covering losses in shipping, supplying the environment to keep it, staff to maintain it, food, the shelf and fridge space to keep the food in, water, etc. It all adds up..
Salt for example is sold at close to cost, mostly because the market has driven it to that. So if the store doubles or triples the cost of the fish to go in that salt, I'm ok with that, as without profit, there wouldn't be a store to shop at.
As for the original question, yes, some stores lose some money on some items.

[Nano]

^ +1 Dry goods are alot easier to sell at cost or below as said, cause they mark up everything else anywhere from 10% or more to cover costs, Like brad said fish can be marked up as much as 300% I sold 1 1/2" Cichlid fry to a LFS once for 2.50 a piece and they sold them for 16.95 at the same size. but they have to do this to pay staff and power bills are enormous in Fish stores

[phi delt reefer]

salt and other heavily marked down items are called "loss leaders" - they attract you into the store with the hopes the client will also purchase other items where they will make up the loss.

when i worked at futureshop (when the original xbox and PS2 were new gaming consoles) - we lost $10 per console when selling them at regular price. Our managers reminded us daily to push additional controllers/memory cards/games/extended warranties with each sale to ensure the department's profitability.

[MarkoD]

Any business running on that margin will not be in business for long, commercial overhead is costly, the sales you see this time of year are typical for business looking to unload excess inventory from Christmas, anyone that has ever worked retail will tell you Jan and Feb are usually pretty lean months. That being said it is nice to score a deal or two for those who have any money left after Cashmas.

Sorry what I meant is live stock cost is half of the price. So 100% markup.

My bad

[MarkoD]

salt and other heavily marked down items are called "loss leaders" - they attract you into the store with the hopes the client will also purchase other items where they will make up the loss.

when i worked at futureshop (when the original xbox and PS2 were new gaming consoles) - we lost $10 per console when selling them at regular price. Our managers reminded us daily to push additional controllers/memory cards/games/extended warranties with each sale to ensure the department's profitability.

Lol the "cost" on games was always a dollar less than retail. When in reality the cost is like <20 dollars on a video game

[cuz]

They lose money on one or 2 products which are "door crashers" and then they rape you on everything else.

Trust me, I sold home theatre equipment for 5 years.

The tv is at cost or just below cost. But the cables, hd box, warranty, etc have a lot of markup

Same thing with fish stuff. Most people that bought 30 dollar boxes of salt probably ended up spending on other things that had markup for sure

so when you were in retail did you do it to make a living or just for fun?
How much of your salary at the time would you have been willing to give back to the customers??
:twised::twised:

[raceit]

sounds like some people should try being self employed, retail or otherwise. they would learn alot.

[Proteus]

I was quite ****ed. This boxing day sale. I seen livestock that was double the normal price to be marked at whatever percent off. I've seen this on regular days also were the price was bumped one day to be marked on sale at yesterday's cost

[Ross]

heavily marked down items are called "loss leaders"

Just like wing night at the bar...

mmm wings...

[MarkoD]

so when you were in retail did you do it to make a living or just for fun?
How much of your salary at the time would you have been willing to give back to the customers??
:twised::twised:

I did it as a part time job while going to school. But I was money hungry. I would never take a commission hit to save a customer money. I only gave discounts to intice people to buy more.

Sometimes I'd discount a tv 200 dollars to sell a 400 dollar warranty.

Warranty pairs 17% commission but tvs only paid 2%

[fishytime]

Comments like LFSs are raping you are really inflamitory......If you shopped somewhere that inflated their costs just to discount it for boxing day then you shouldn't support that shop...... If you feel that their prices are too high then don't shop there...... There are things like overhead, employee wages, livestock losses that all have to be factored in to the price of everything in the store.... I mean, geez maybe the LFSs shouldn't have boxing day sale if we are gonna get raked over the coals for making money for the rest of the year?.... The sales are for the customers and while yes they still make a profit on some things on Boxing day, other things, they break even or even take a loss on

[MarkoD]

At any electronics store when they show you the cost and tell you you're getting something at cost. It's not true.

The cost displayed on the cost displayed on the computer is padded to incorporate overhead. No one in the store ever knows the actual cost of anything

[MarkoD]

Comments like LFSs are raping you are really inflamitory......If you shopped somewhere that inflated their costs just to discount it for boxing day then you shouldn't support that shop...... If you feel that their prices are too high then don't shop there...... There are things like overhead, employee wages, livestock losses that all have to be factored in to the price of everything in the store.... I mean, geez maybe the LFSs shouldn't have boxing day sale if we are gonna get raked over the coals for making money for the rest of the year?.... The sales are for the customers and while yes they still make a profit on some things on Boxing day, other things, they break even or even take a loss on

Boxing day isn't for making money. It's for building brand awareness and brand loyalty. So that the customers that you satisfied on boxing day will come back many times over the following year

if i had a store of any kind, i'd sell everything at cost on boxing day. take as many customers as possible from the competition.

[Lampshade]

Boxing day isn't for making money. It's for building brand awareness and brand loyalty. So that the customers that you satisfied on boxing day will come back many times over the following year

if i had a store of any kind, i'd sell everything at cost on boxing day. take as many customers as possible from the competition.

The only part against this is that there's little competition on boxing day. It's not like the futureshop/visions, etc that have one every block. Pretty much everyone in the lower mainland was at JL's or King ed's, then headed to either OA or OC. So as long as you're not out to lunch on terrible prices, a 10% off would draw people in just as much as a 20%+. This boxing day i spent a couple hundred bucks on random crap, and figured I'd saved about $40, definitely staying home and shopping online next year.

[Nate]

So many assumptions made in this thread. Ive been on every side of this industry and it really is amazing at how some of these stores keep their doors open. Margins on many items are ridiculously low.


Some People are throwing numbers out there without seemingly having a clue.

[paddyob]

I Would like some loose money. Lol

[MarkoD]

The only part against this is that there's little competition on boxing day. It's not like the futureshop/visions, etc that have one every block. Pretty much everyone in the lower mainland was at JL's or King ed's, then headed to either OA or OC. So as long as you're not out to lunch on terrible prices, a 10% off would draw people in just as much as a 20%+. This boxing day i spent a couple hundred bucks on random crap, and figured I'd saved about $40, definitely staying home and shopping online next year.

But stores should be completely for customer loyalty. There's about 6 LFS in Edmonton and I basically deal with one of them now. A year ago I would spend a whole day driving around to all of them trying to find one I liked and trusted

[reefme]

Stores won't loose money, they just don't make enough money. If every buy that much every day they don't mind to sell for that price.

[Nano]

I Would like some loose money. Lol

I didnt even notice that :pound:

[paddyob]

Stores won't loose money, they just don't make enough money. If every buy that much every day they don't mind to sell for that price.

Yup. They call these products loss leaders. It's more about market share and over all movement of stock. Some products have little to no profit, but chances are, once in the store, you will buy another product as well.

[Mrfish55]

So that the customers that you satisfied on boxing day will come back many times over the following year.

Having worked in retail for too many years I can honestly say you get more P.Od customers from Boxing day than you do happy ones, long lines, limited stock, cranky customers fighting to save a few bucks, like I mentioned before, the sale is just a good opportunity to unload excess Christmas stock and make room for new product. Personally I hate boxing day shopping, I will pay the extra few bucks and avoid the crowds or shop online.

[MarkoD]

Yup. They call these products loss leaders. It's more about market share and over all movement of stock. Some products have little to no profit, but chances are, once in the store, you will buy another product as well.

I saw the loose thing but didn't wanna be a douchebag today. But yeah what you said is exactly it.

[BlueWorldAquatic]

Boxing day isn't for making money. It's for building brand awareness and brand loyalty. So that the customers that you satisfied on boxing day will come back many times over the following year

if i had a store of any kind, i'd sell everything at cost on boxing day. take as many customers as possible from the competition.

I'd hate to say that, but I totally disagree.

The prime example is Big Al's Salt special. They use it as a loss leader, but many of the customers that showed up for it did not buy anything else. I was there in the morning and I saw a lot of people that would not shop there normally any other time of the year.

We can lower prices when our suppliers give us special deals (drystock), during holiday times, as they want to reduce their stock. Livestock prices almost never fluctuate during the year.

As for a store that increases prices just before these sales to show the special markdowns, buyer beware.


As for markups, they are needed to keep all stores in business. There are too many expenses to even name, everone gets a piece of the pie before we even see the products. A good guestimate of operating costs a store needs to make is at least $500 a day (Profit) to break even per day.

I remember this time last year, a canreefer said they can bring in pepermint shrimp and sell the from his house for $2 each, I told him I'd buy 500 alone for my store. That sale never happened, I wonder why?

LFS's are completely different than any other retail outlets, other companies can close for a week and do nothing and their inventory remains the same, try that with a LFS and you walk into a room as if someone just stolen from you. Apples and oranges people

Just my opinion..

Ken - BWA

[MarkoD]

Having worked in retail for too many years I can honestly say you get more P.Od customers from Boxing day than you do happy ones, long lines, limited stock, cranky customers fighting to save a few bucks, like I mentioned before, the sale is just a good opportunity to unload excess Christmas stock and make room for new product. Personally I hate boxing day shopping, I will pay the extra few bucks and avoid the crowds or shop online.

I loved boxing day from a salespersons point of view. I'd sell someone a door crashed tv and give them my card. 60% of the time they come back at a later date to buy add ons.

[MarkoD]

I'd hate to say that, but I totally disagree.

The prime example is Big Al's Salt special. They use it as a loss leader, but many of the customers that showed up for it did not buy anything else. I was there in the morning and I saw a lot of people that would not shop there normally any other time of the year.

We can lower prices when our suppliers give us special deals (drystock), during holiday times, as they want to reduce their stock. Livestock prices almost never fluctuate during the year.

As for a store that increases prices just before these sales to show the special markdowns, buyer beware.


As for markups, they are needed to keep all stores in business. There are too many expenses to even name, everone gets a piece of the pie before we even see the products. A good guestimate of operating costs a store needs to make is at least $500 a day (Profit) to break even per day.

I remember this time last year, a canreefer said they can bring in pepermint shrimp and sell the from his house for $2 each, I told him I'd buy 500 alone for my store. That sale never happened, I wonder why?

LFS's are completely different than any other retail outlets, other companies can close for a week and do nothing and their inventory remains the same, try that with a LFS and you walk into a room as if someone just stolen from you. Apples and oranges people

Just my opinion..

Ken - BWA

exactly a year ago on boxing day. i went to big al's and bought a bucket of salt and started my first saltwater tank. i've spent thousands of dollars since then.

if not for the discounted bucket of salt, i may have never even switched to saltwater. im sure theres plenty of people that you dont know. i meet people with saltwater tanks on a weekly basis that dont know that any other saltwater store other than big als even exists in edmonton.

[BlueWorldAquatic]

exactly a year ago on boxing day. i went to big al's and bought a bucket of salt and started my first saltwater tank. i've spent thousands of dollars since then.

if not for the discounted bucket of salt, i may have never even switched to saltwater. im sure theres plenty of people that you dont know. i meet people with saltwater tanks on a weekly basis that dont know that any other saltwater store other than big als even exists in edmonton.

That special doesn't retain customer loyalty though, they would have been bettter off selling it through the back for people that just wanted salt. Would have reduced the bottleneck at the register.

[paddyob]

LFS's are completely different than any other retail outlets, other companies can close for a week and do nothing and their inventory remains the same, try that with a LFS and you walk into a room as if someone just stolen from you. Apples and oranges people

Just my opinion..

Ken - BWA

Huh?

[MarkoD]

That special doesn't retain customer loyalty.

it gets people in the store.

i bet there are just as many people with tanks that arent on canreef than there are on canreef.

before i joined canreef i never knew about any other saltwater fish store other than big als

*edit* i agree, putting a doorcrasher at the front is retarded, the point of a door crasher is to make the customer to as far into the store as possible. not in and out without having a chance of seeing other things

[BlueWorldAquatic]

Huh?

meaning that LFS inventory need to be tended to and can die.

Electronics can be left in the warehouse

I can guarentee that there are probally like 70% that arent on canreef, we see the stunned looks when we ask them if they know about CanReef

[paddyob]

Geez. Ken and Marko.

Maybe take this PM. Almost getting a little much.

Ken as a retailer, best not to make yourself look too confrontational. Blogs can be easy to misinterpret. And this one is going that way fast.

[paddyob]

meaning that LFS inventory need to be tended to and can die.

Electronics can be left in the warehouse

I can guarentee that there are probally like 70% that arent on canreef, we see the stunned looks when we ask them if they know about CanReef

Oh yes. The obvious. Ha ha.

[MarkoD]

meaning that LFS inventory need to be tended to and can die.

Electronics can be left in the warehouse

electronics die too..... they die because a newer one is born. you cant just leave a tv on a shelf for 6 months and expect to sell it at any kind of decent price.

lets say you have an achilles tang. as long as you feed it, and keep its water nice and clean, it cant live for years before you sell it. it wont lose value because a 3D achilles tang came out

[MarkoD]

Geez. Ken and Marko.

Maybe take this PM. Almost getting a little much.

Ken as a retailer, best not to make yourself look too confrontational. Blogs can be easy to misinterpret. And this one is going that way fast.

pm doesnt increase post count :lol:

[paddyob]

pm doesnt increase post count :lol:

Ha ha ha !

One more. Lol.

[lockrookie]

here is my 2 cents on the matter. if a store is losing money or making money due to a boxing day sale, or any sale, is really none of our buisness. thats the accountants problem not ours. to me a deal is a deal. if im able to save some money on one thing to buy more stuff im all for it. and in the end im thankfull to the company i purchase said sale item from for givingme the oportunity to save some cash. whether its a once a year thing or off and on in the year. in the end those few bucks i saved may help towards a cool controller or new skimmer. and i guarontee. the place that treated me with the most respect. will get me back there again. sale or no sale.

its a hobby/obsession/addiction...i have reefer ocd and its a problem im going to have to live with for the rest of my life. hell i didnt buy any rum for over chistmas/new years causse i could usethe money towards somethingfish related lol.

so i say who cares what the lfs/retailers financials are or methods for taking our money...enjoy it spend it..you cant take it ith you and your kids really dont need an inheritance anyways. lol

ps: i wanted another notch in my post count too

[zulu_principle]

You guys have figured out the secret.....

Its a license to print money.....right Ken.

MarkoD.... your awesome we should be partners....feed and keep the water nice and clean and you can keep everything alive, including achilles tangs...your the king.

Boxing Day is a sales day....we discount to get volume both online and in the store...Do we lose money...on sales over COGS, no but come on, think of your power bill...and think of how much water we have...

With live inventory this is an extremely difficult industry....and an even more difficult business model when everything i have has a unique sku.

All retailers value customers please come to our store soon.

Merry christmas and Happy New Year to All....



Wendell

[lastlight]

Can't make some people happy. Take advantage of what deals you want to and start your own lfs if you can do better.

[paddyob]

You guys have figured out the secret.....

Its a license to print money.....right Ken.

MarkoD.... your awesome we should be partners....feed and keep the water nice and clean and you can keep everything alive, including achilles tangs...your the king.

Boxing Day is a sales day....we discount to get volume both online and in the store...Do we lose money...on sales over COGS, no but come on, think of your power bill...and think of how much water we have...

With live inventory this is an extremely difficult industry....and an even more difficult business model when everything i have has a unique sku.

All retailers value customers please come to our store soon.

Merry christmas and Happy New Year to All....



Wendell


Don't all retailers use separate skus on products?

That seems like an everyday practice for any retailer.


Good post though asides from my above thought.

I can see your side. Tanks galore.

[MarkoD]

You guys have figured out the secret.....

Its a license to print money.....right Ken.

MarkoD.... your awesome we should be partners....feed and keep the water nice and clean and you can keep everything alive, including achilles tangs...your the king.

Boxing Day is a sales day....we discount to get volume both online and in the store...Do we lose money...on sales over COGS, no but come on, think of your power bill...and think of how much water we have...

With live inventory this is an extremely difficult industry....and an even more difficult business model when everything i have has a unique sku.

All retailers value customers please come to our store soon.

Merry christmas and Happy New Year to All....



Wendell

No sir, you're* awesome and you're* the king

The comparison was electronics store and a fish store. My point was that electronics can't sit on the shelf either.

But this has gone so off track, I can't even remember the original reason for this argument.

[lockrookie]

Can't make some people happy. Take advantage of what deals you want to and start your own lfs if you can do better.

+1

[ScubaSteve]

Alright, here's my two cents...

I used to be a distributor for snowboards and wakeboards. If you own either of these products, it probably passed through my hands. I also had my own shop which I sold out of, so I know how pricing works at both ends.

I can't speak for LFS mark ups as they have very high losses (imagine if that goldflake angel you just ordered in kicked the bucket...) and they different business models but, in my industry, every time a product changes hands it doubles in price. If I bought a board from the factory for $100, I'd sell it to a shop for $200 and they'd sell it for $400. This is rough numbers but gives you an idea. Some products, especially the small one people buy a lot of (like skateboard wheels and bearings) have much higher mark ups.

For boxing day I'd get pretty good deals from the factories, which I'd pass on to the dealers. The factories want to clear out stock for the next model year and, since no one is buying wakeboards in the dead of winter, I was also generous on my pricing. So the shops do see savings for this reason.

There is also the whole thing of selling in bulk. Though I was selling m product for less, there are so many people buying on boxing day that I would make up for it through volume. Boxing day for my shop was often more profitable than the entire preceding holiday season and I'd make enough money to make-up for the sales doldrums that follow Christmas.

So, it really depends. Most shops aren't going to be losing money but they don't necessarily make as much on each product they sell, but they make up for it through volume.

[reefme]

Alright, here's my two cents...


So, it really depends. Most shops aren't going to be losing money but they don't necessarily make as much on each product they sell, but they make up for it through volume.

+1 That is what I am trying to say.

[Nate]

As consumers, you guys really don't know how spoiled you are. Especially in Calgary and Vancouver.

This is feeling like beating a dead horse though...

[MarkoD]

oh yeah. my original point:

having a doorcrasher item which is below cost will bring customers in the door and give you the potential to up sell them or sell them additional things and build a rapport with them. Opening the door for future business.

this is not an argument and you dont have to respond. this is my opinion and if I had a retail store I would run it this way.

[Madreefer]

Why is'nt this thread in the lounge?

[Nate]

Markod

Where did you get your numbers for 30 % and 50% then and how does this back up the original point you stated on page 5?

[MarkoD]

page 5 was the previous page.


and what i said on page one was

"I think it's more like 30% on dry goods and 50% on livestock"

but i later corrected myself

[unclesalty]

If anyone thinks stores lose money on boxing day sales I have a couple extra bridges I will sell them! lol

[OceanAquatics]

[quote=unclesalty;665424]If anyone thinks stores lose money on boxing day sales I have a couple extra bridges I will sell them! lol[/quot

I'm happy to see you own bridges, in BC at $3 to $5 a car you could make some serious money.

Unless you own a store in my industry your opinion is just that, your opinion.


Wendell

So you know, I'm available anytime to consult on the big money to be made in the Salt Water Aquarium Industry...until then im just hoping to find people who own bridges to keep buying.

[OceanAquatics]

Don't all retailers use separate skus on products?

That seems like an everyday practice for any retailer.


Good post though asides from my above thought.

I can see your side. Tanks galore.

Really....i wish that was true, not many retailers sell live inventory....and when they do not many sell it with pics online.

People want to buy what they see with online products, so i have a zoo frag 1 and zoo frag 2...and we cant just order them that way....

In most other industries....you order a watch, a coffee machines, a ipad, a ipod they have individual sku's but you can produce them by the 100's of thousands....so how many zoo's look exactly the same...name many...and you expect to buy what you see....

Hence individual sku for each of the 1500 items i had in two of the 10 coral tanks we have in our store....thats a difficult proposition....

IMHO


Wendell

[unclesalty]

[quote=unclesalty;665424]If anyone thinks stores lose money on boxing day sales I have a couple extra bridges I will sell them! lol[/quot

I'm happy to see you own bridges, in BC at $3 to $5 a car you could make some serious money.

Unless you own a store in my industry your opinion is just that, your opinion.


Wendell

So you know, I'm available anytime to consult on the big money to be made in the Salt Water Aquarium Industry...until then im just hoping to find people who own bridges to keep buying.

Sorry I can't keep buying as I bought too many bridges I can't sell! lol
I am not saying you are making big money but I know you are not selling items for less than your cost on boxing day!

[OceanAquatics]

[quote=OceanAquatics;665439]

Sorry I can't keep buying as I bought too many bridges I can't sell! lol
I am not saying you are making big money but I know you are not selling items for less than your cost on boxing day!


You know....cool im in, tell me.

Eagerly awaiting your reply.


Wendell

[Madreefer]

[QUOTE=OceanAquatics;665439]


I am not saying you are making big money but I know you are not selling items for less than your cost on boxing day!

Why should any store sell anything below their cost? At any time of the year! If people are gonna bittch about the cost of this hobby than maybe it's time to start thinking about a new one. This whole thread is pointless arguing and really what the hell is the cost of this hobby have to do with big screens? I see no connection.

[MarkoD]

[QUOTE=unclesalty;665442]

Why should any store sell anything below their cost? At any time of the year! If people are gonna bittch about the cost of this hobby than maybe it's time to start thinking about a new one. This whole thread is pointless arguing and really what the hell is the cost of this hobby have to do with big screens? I see no connection.

this is what i said before as to why i'd sell something below cost. and the tv thing came in because i use to sell things below cost when i sold tvs

"having a doorcrasher item which is below cost will bring customers in the door and give you the potential to up sell them or sell them additional things and build a rapport with them. Opening the door for future business.

this is not an argument and you dont have to respond. this is my opinion and if I had a retail store I would run it this way."

[unclesalty]

[QUOTE=Madreefer;665449]

this is what i said before as to why i'd sell something below cost. and the tv thing came in because i use to sell things below cost when i sold tvs

"having a doorcrasher item which is below cost will bring customers in the door and give you the potential to up sell them or sell them additional things and build a rapport with them. Opening the door for future business.

this is not an argument and you dont have to respond. this is my opinion and if I had a retail store I would run it this way."

If they are selling them for below their costs that I have seen they definately need a new wholesaler!

[Nate]

Ok Marko you win wrong page...

Not the point. But you haven't answered the question.

Where did you come up with these numbers. Magic hat? I realize they are a matter of opinion , but when you come online and state things like that, some people might not realize you don't have a clue at what you are saying as assume it is fact. Just my opinion.

Also, electronics store and a small specialized hobby shop are a whole different animal my friend. I appreciate you trying to make comparisons with what you may have learned as a part time electronics salesman while putting yourself through school, but you're talking a bit over your head. ( in my opinion)

Also, sorry for the late reply. I was watching my stories on my new tv I picked up on boxing day. No xtended warranty FTW!

[RedCoralEdmonton]

All I have to say on this is, thank you to all the customers that came out for boxing day as well as for the rest of the year, regardless how much is made or lost on sales, during boxing week, or any other sale for the rest of the year, our main objective is to please the customer. As long as we continue doing that, by providing great pricing and services, and assuming we keep the doors open then it shouldn't be anyone's business how much is made or lost.....

Steve

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

An LFS is a business, not a charity. It is not in business to supplement our addictions by selling below cost. Operating costs are very high in this industry, especially for sw with all the high-powered lights, pumps, etc.

I'm just glad I live in the Lower Mainland where I can order online or go to the shops to pick up my stuff without going broke. If I lived in other parts of the country, I probably would have never gotten back into sw. I know of one shop in Powell River that was charging over $40 for a 50g bag of IO salt (more than a bucket around here).

Anybody who thinks LFS owners are getting rich from their shops should try calculating how much shipping is, keeping corals/fish alive, livestock losses, salt for water changes, staffing, and electricity.

I'm just happy that I got my Boxing Week shopping done and that I can still feed my addiction tomorrow and throughout the weekend even.

Cheers,

Anthony

[MarkoD]

Ok Marko you win wrong page...

Not the point. But you haven't answered the question.

Where did you come up with these numbers. Magic hat? I realize they are a matter of opinion , but when you come online and state things like that, some people might not realize you don't have a clue at what you are saying as assume it is fact. Just my opinion.

Also, electronics store and a small specialized hobby shop are a whole different animal my friend. I appreciate you trying to make comparisons with what you may have learned as a part time electronics salesman while putting yourself through school, but you're talking a bit over your head. ( in my opinion)

Also, sorry for the late reply. I was watching my stories on my new tv I picked up on boxing day. No xtended warranty FTW!

if i put the words "i think" infront of the number 23423948734597934759347859573fivesevenoneoneoneone oenoneonezerozerozero.

it basically means i got out of a magic hat. or just made it up as what i think a figure could be

[MarkoD]

now after installing this stupid star wars old republic game for the last 2 hours.... im gonna try and play it

[Nate]

Gotta start selling hats, magic hats.

2 for 1 boxing day

[MarkoD]

Gotta start selling hats, magic hats.

2 for 1 boxing day

then once you get people hooked and the word of your business spreads, then you raise the price and start making profits

[OceanAquatics]

Any Cottage Industry as a whole has unique issues, but the most specific issue is that most suppliers will sell to anyone...hence the cost of items is well know and most people with an internet connection can figure that out.

This LFS industry is therefore based on three things...1. Things die 2. How do you keep the customer coming into your store after those things die. 3. When they come back...things die...back to thing 2.

Simple...but hey...i'm thinking i want to own bridges...

All the best.


Wendell

[Madreefer]

This is what I paid for a bucket of salt about 10 years ago. The wore out pricetag is for $160.28. That same store now sells the same salt for $59.99. I'm quite happy paying todays prices. I dont shop at that store anymore, I get my salt for $50/pail now. Just be fortunate you have stores to choose from in your town. It's pretty much a known fact that most LFS stores sell salt at cost or below cost to get the consumer in there. Try not too tick off some of your LFS that are possibly reading this thread right now, it may backfire on you when you do ask for a better deal at other times of the year. Most of them are willing to knock off a few bucks if asked. Wendall has for me and i'm 500 miles away.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh135/gulflube/LEDs/bucket.jpg

[OceanAquatics]

This is what I paid for a bucket of salt about 10 years ago. The wore out pricetag is for $160.28. That same store now sells the same salt for $59.99. I'm quite happy paying todays prices. I dont shop at that store anymore, I get my salt for $50/pail now. Just be fortunate you have stores to choose from in your town. It's pretty much a known fact that most LFS stores sell salt at cost or below cost to get the consumer in there. Try not too tick off some of your LFS that are possibly reading this thread right now, it may backfire on you when you do ask for a better deal at other times of the year. Most of them are willing to knock off a few bucks if asked. Wendall has for me and i'm 500 miles away.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh135/gulflube/LEDs/bucket.jpg

thank you for the words...but i get that life is about price...i drive to costco in bellingham to buy chicken....but like i dont understand the guy who has a chicken business i dont expect you to understand mine....

it works...and my doors are open....

Wanna buy a fish store, call me....


Wendell

[Coralgurl]

I work in commercial real estate and even though we have just gone thru a recession, rents in this city especially retail remained strong, with low vacancy rates. Therefore most retail tenants have likely seen their rents increase over the last couple of years in this city. As many of you remember, labour costs soared a few years ago and while most contracts and service providers have been able to stabilize their costs, no one dropped their prices, they simply kept them where they left off. I have never seen a landlord drop their operating costs, always increases. I can drive around this city and have a pretty good idea of what rents are, hence the locations of the smaller lfs. When a business is paying thousands a month in rents alone, utilities, staffing, plus the cost of stocking their stores, I am amazed at who stays in business. I've seen many mom and pop stores just not able to make it, even franchises and national tenants close down, so I always have admired those who start or maintain a business successfully, honestly and with integrity.

I don't boxing day shop, hate the crowds and really don't see the big deal. I went to a couple of stores this year, late in the afternoon, missed the rush and got what I needed. I know which stores I will continue to shop at, not for pricing but for the service. I've received a few freebies "just to try" in my tank rather than spend money on something that won't survive in my tank. Ive considered buying stuff that i was talked out of bec it was a waste of money, and i was thankful. That is what will bring me back. Walking into a store I've been in 3 times and being called by name (happened today). Everyone is out to make a buck, so what? Boxing day is a rip off, sure there are deals to be had...take what you want and leave the rest!

Just my 0.02

[paddyob]

Oh I see. Most places I hit use a generic code such as "zoa Frag".

I have yet to be fortunate enough to deal with a shop that thorough... Then again, if it increases operating costs, I would understand why.

Thanks for the explanation.

Really....i wish that was true, not many retailers sell live inventory....and when they do not many sell it with pics online.

People want to buy what they see with online products, so i have a zoo frag 1 and zoo frag 2...and we cant just order them that way....

In most other industries....you order a watch, a coffee machines, a ipad, a ipod they have individual sku's but you can produce them by the 100's of thousands....so how many zoo's look exactly the same...name many...and you expect to buy what you see....

Hence individual sku for each of the 1500 items i had in two of the 10 coral tanks we have in our store....thats a difficult proposition....

IMHO


Wendell

[Casey8]

thank you for the words...but i get that life is about price...i drive to costco in bellingham to buy chicken....but like i dont understand the guy who has a chicken business i dont expect you to understand mine....

it works...and my doors are open....

Wanna buy a fish store, call me....


Wendell


I like you Wendell, you don't need to sell your store. If you change your old staff with a new friendly and knowledgeable staff it will help. Sometimes I don't shop in that store just because I don't like their staff, but the owner :wink:

[apexifd]

I like you Wendell, you don't need to sell your store. If you change your old staff with a new friendly and knowledgeable staff it will help. Sometimes I don't shop in that store just because I don't like their staff, but the owner :wink:

I personally have no problem with the staff there.

[lockrookie]

this whole thread is getting blown out of porportion. does any of it really matter this is the holiday season ppl eat drink be merry lets not end the year in a silly thread about things that is life its called business. if things were free we wouldnt have to work. if we didnt have to work we would be at home annoying our wives and divorce rate would be higher.

[Casey8]

this whole thread is getting blown out of porportion. does any of it really matter this is the holiday season ppl eat drink be merry lets not end the year in a silly thread about things that is life its called business. if things were free we wouldnt have to work. if we didnt have to work we would be at home annoying our wives and divorce rate would be higher.


I agree :smile: sorry ... and IF we didn't have to work too ... I would have got divorced in a month.

[cuz]

soo.. i guess no ones having any new years eve sales now?



lol :-)

[RedCoralEdmonton]

No but my birthday is on feb 2nd, so I'll prolly do one then, seeing as how I have 2 notable orders between now and then.... I'll prolly go crazy! Lol

Steve

[mattdean]

I think if customers treated their LFS owner/staff with the respect and kindness we demand from them, everybody would find it a better experience.

I get exceptional treatment (from all the stores I deal with) and have absolutely no problems with prices or their making a profit. If it's too rich for my blood, I don't buy it. Because of my attitude, they are happy to help me out, give me great service and throw me a deal, when appropriate.

IMO, it's our own attitude that creates the experience. Why on earth would anyone NOT want a store owner to make money and stay in business. They took the risk. They put in the work. they have the knowledge. etc.

Get over yourselves.

Oh...and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

[DAVE]

I think if customers treated their LFS owner/staff with the respect and kindness we demand from them, everybody would find it a better experience.

I get exceptional treatment (from all the stores I deal with) and have absolutely no problems with prices or their making a profit. If it's too rich for my blood, I don't buy it. Because of my attitude, they are happy to help me out, give me great service and throw me a deal, when appropriate.

IMO, it's our own attitude that creates the experience. Why on earth would anyone NOT want a store owner to make money and stay in business. They took the risk. They put in the work. they have the knowledge. etc.

Get over yourselves.

Oh...and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!


In a perfect world your statement is true. However, I treated a LFS with much respect even giving him over $4000 in buisness in just a few months. The end result was promises broken, over charged on items and just overall a poor experience.

My fault though, I should of researched this LFS first, as I am not the only one to have been "had", by this individual.

You are correct though that everyone needs to make some money, so I have no issues spending money at the stores that treat me with the same respect I give them! If I was in a bind and needed help I know the stores I spend my money at would help me with no questions asked.

[mattdean]

Of course I was generalizing and there are always a few bad apples that can spoil it for everyone. It's just the general disregard that some people have for the expense and risk involved in owner/operating a small store. It's nice to have food with your meals!

[paddyob]

Well said. I also prefer to pass on over priced/expensive items.
No matter which shop you attend, it will have at least one severely over priced item. Everyshop in Edmonton has from time to time caused me to shake my head. So I don't buy it.

Hey with Canreef I now rarely need any livestock or corals anyhow! Dry goods are usually priced similarly.

Retailers must make money.


I think if customers treated their LFS owner/staff with the respect and kindness we demand from them, everybody would find it a better experience.

I get exceptional treatment (from all the stores I deal with) and have absolutely no problems with prices or their making a profit. If it's too rich for my blood, I don't buy it. Because of my attitude, they are happy to help me out, give me great service and throw me a deal, when appropriate.

IMO, it's our own attitude that creates the experience. Why on earth would anyone NOT want a store owner to make money and stay in business. They took the risk. They put in the work. they have the knowledge. etc.

Get over yourselves.

Oh...and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

[fishoholic]

Geez. Ken and Marko.

Maybe take this PM. Almost getting a little much.

Ken as a retailer, best not to make yourself look too confrontational. Blogs can be easy to misinterpret. And this one is going that way fast.

I think Ken was just trying to answer the qustions being asked here, I don't believe he was being confrontational.

I agree that MarkoD was getting a bit ridiculous. Bottom line if you don't work at a LFS or know their costs don't make assumptions as to what their prices are or how much mark up there is or isn't. As also mentioned before there are staff wages, live stock losses, operating costs etc. that have to be taken into consideration.

Also keep in mind that sometimes prices vary because wholesalers give specials/discounts on certain fish and other times they charge more for that same fish. Different wholesalers also charge different prices so LFS have to base the price of the fish according to what they had to pay for it which can be a difference of $20-$80 or more depending on who you're buying through at the time. Which is why sometimes you can get a deal on a fish for $35 which normally would cost $80-90.

I think if customers treated their LFS owner/staff with the respect and kindness we demand from them, everybody would find it a better experience.

I get exceptional treatment (from all the stores I deal with) and have absolutely no problems with prices or their making a profit. If it's too rich for my blood, I don't buy it. Because of my attitude, they are happy to help me out, give me great service and throw me a deal, when appropriate.

IMO, it's our own attitude that creates the experience. Why on earth would anyone NOT want a store owner to make money and stay in business. They took the risk. They put in the work. they have the knowledge. etc.

Get over yourselves.

Oh...and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

+1

Thankfully I have a good relationship with all the lfs in Edmonton and they have all been good to me. Is it sad that they all know who I am? Even the cashier at Big Als recognizes me :redface:

[Seamazter]

I cant wait for the day im in line at Safeway or Superstore, and the person wants a discount off their bill.

Cashier "that will be $145.89"
Client "Can i give you $130.00 I shop here alot"

These stores never offer boxing day sales.

[Seamazter]

Thankfully I have a good relationship with all the lfs in Edmonton and they have all been good to me. Is it sad that they all know who I am? Even the cashier at Big Als recognizes me :redface:
I live in Calgary and i know you too. Chances are good Kevin does too.
Mwahahaha.

[MarkoD]

Yeah but check out my post count now :)

Took 2+ rep and 2- so that's a break even.

[dsaundry]

It was interesting reading this thread as it is very easy to tell employers from employee's in the responses. As a self employed business owner the cold hard facts are this. Mark ups on whatever you sell must cover your costs. This includes everything from insurance to wages to tax's and rent or lease or mortgage fees. Anybody who has their own business and shop will tell you that the tax's are horrible, wages are a pain and lost leaders really don't exist. If you see a shop advertising an oil change for $19.95+tax there is always a clause saying "most vehicles" and what exceptions there are to the sale. They don't lose money but they certainly have an opportunity to make money with add on sales. This is the basis for the so called lost leader effect. So if you see a sale on salt or equipment or livestock, there is usually a theory or gimmick behind the reason for the sale. It's the same for tv's stereo's etc. When someone shows me an add for Instant ocean salt for say $39.95 a bucket and the second one free then I say "Sign me up for 20 pails" but I have found that prices whether they are in LFS's or electronics are usually pretty consistent during the year, sales come and go all year round and for the most part whether its a Boxing day sale or Pre Christmas sale or Labour day sale or My wife is nagging me sale, the prices are all usually pretty good. It's whether you can be patient for the right deal to come along that can be the biggest factor. Eg. If you were in a LFS and say a particular fish or coral that you really wanted and the price was $100.00. would you gamble and say I am going to wait a couple of weeks for boxing day to get the fish for $70-$80 dollars. Most people won't and will buy that day at full pop. Here is the plain fact about business, mine or anybody else's. We are in business to make money, when someone can convince my employee's to work for free and the government to stop taxing me and for anything I want to be free, then you can whine about inflated prices. If anybody can find the words "NON PROFIT" anywhere in my signage or business cards I will gladly give jobs away for nothing.

[Seamazter]

If anybody can find the words "NON PROFIT" anywhere in my signage or business cards I will gladly give jobs away for nothing.

Well said.

[fishoholic]

I live in Calgary and i know you too. Chances are good Kevin does too.
Mwahahaha.

:lol: yep even some of the Calgary stores know me

[MarkoD]

Lol just got +1 rep and -1

Still even :)

Sorry cant return the favor, I'm on iphone

[Ryan]

It's not so much the cost of the fish, corals and supplies that is expensive but the crazy cost of transportation that hurts the bottom line. For instance, a few hundred dollars worth of livestock can easily be over $1000 in shipping, transhipping fees, etc.

Where do you get this information? I used to work in this industry (less than 2 years ago) and your right there is a few hundred dollars in fish but if your paying $1000 to ship please ask for vaseline when they rape you. We rarely seen shipping costs at half that and we had to fly stuff to calgary then to lethbridge (and extra $100). Generally it was $300/box when they got to Calgary international Airport.


I will however say you guys in edmonton are getting SCREWED HARD! I was up in october and visited a few shops about the only one I seen with decent pricing was RCE. I didnt get a chance to stop at Blue World but I will say I stopped shopping when I seen a Purple Tang for $300 at another shop. Same fish is a $90 fish in Calgary.

Thankfuly Lethbridge stores have finally clued in that people are making trips to calgary for cheaper prices, ordering from JL, and thankfuly they have lowered their prices to keep people local.

[jorjef]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH wow, I want my life rewind button after reading this thread.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

I got it from the invoice of an LFS where I helped out my friend during several recent deliveries of fish and corals. Trust me, the local transhippers are charging an arm & a leg for shipping and handling. I am not "pulling numbers out my whazoo". The $1000 was for several boxes, but the fish and corals cost far less than the actual shipping/handling charges. They also charge far higher than bank exchange rates and that can quickly add up too. My numbers are accurate as of yesterday, not two years ago.

Where do you get this information? I used to work in this industry (less than 2 years ago) and your right there is a few hundred dollars in fish but if your paying $1000 to ship please ask for vaseline when they rape you. We rarely seen shipping costs at half that and we had to fly stuff to calgary then to lethbridge (and extra $100). Generally it was $300/box when they got to Calgary international Airport.


I will however say you guys in edmonton are getting SCREWED HARD! I was up in october and visited a few shops about the only one I seen with decent pricing was RCE. I didnt get a chance to stop at Blue World but I will say I stopped shopping when I seen a Purple Tang for $300 at another shop. Same fish is a $90 fish in Calgary.

Thankfuly Lethbridge stores have finally clued in that people are making trips to calgary for cheaper prices, ordering from JL, and thankfuly they have lowered their prices to keep people local.

[howdy20012002]

OMG, this place always cracks me up.
imagine LFSs wanting to make money.
its not like they put their entire financial well being at risk or anything when they start up a business and hope that they make it work.
It must the difference between owning a business and working for someone else.
I truly don't think that people get how strenuous and nerve wrecking owning a business can be or how much is truly on the line when you decide to open the doors.
Employees generally always get paid for the all work they put in.
Employers generally never get paid for all the work they put in.
Employees, when they lose a job, they go find another one.
Employers, when they lose a job, they lose their business, most likely their home because most of them have mortgaged it once or twice just to help get the business off the ground, and potentially all of their life savings...GONE.
starting over sucks.
Imagine everything you worked for since you started working gone.
would you open a store??? would you risk everything??

so again, imagine a store wanting to make a profit...boxing day or not.
why shouldn't they?????
btw, if they are selling a purple tang for 90.00 they aren't making money.
and the cost of shipping from indonesia overnight is the same if not more money than the corals and fish in the boxes and certainly can cost a 1000.00 for a few boxes.
just my 2 cents.
Neal

[MarkoD]

I don't think anyone said a lfs isn't suppose to make money. Obviously they're open to make money. Even a store that sells crap and looks like crap has managed to stay open this long.

My original point that selling something at cost on boxing day will not hurt the business in the long run, got twisted and blown out of proportion

[MarkoD]

Even with my own business. When I first started I was shooting all day weddings for free. (I was actually losing money because of the initial investment required)

Now 3 years later I am still reeping the rewards from the referrals I got from those weddings. And I still give a discount to all these referrals in hopes that they'll send more business my way.

For me it's all about building rapport with a client. And with any business I believe it's important. Since price is the biggest initial influence on people's decisions on where to shop, bringing them in with a sale is important. And when you satisfy them with service or quality of product, price becomes secondary.

Being a money hungry business person (like some people who own lfs)( and no this doesn't mean giving stuff away and not making a profit) will do nothing but hurt them. Ive gone into lfs where all the owner wants to do is sell me things. I told him I had cyano and in a 2 min span he tried to sell me bio pellets, gfo, fluval phosphate remover, and phosdown.
I'll probably never go there again (even tho everyone praises this shop)

[Aquattro]

I told him I had cyano and in a 2 min span he tried to sell me bio pellets, gfo, fluval phosphate remover, and phosdown.
I'll probably never go there again (even tho everyone praises this shop)

Aren't those all viable options for dealing with cyano?? So the fish store guy that sells stuff for a living tried to sell you stuff to fix the problem you complained about? Weird....:razz:

[reefwars]

Aren't those all viable options for dealing with cyano?? So the fish store guy that sells stuff for a living tried to sell you stuff to fix the problem you complained about? Weird....:razz:


dont ya just hate that lol the nerve of some people who do they think they are lol

i hate when i dont get any help jeesh its nice to hear that people actually try to offer advise now its being ignored is what i hate.:)

[MarkoD]

Aren't those all viable options for dealing with cyano?? So the fish store guy that sells stuff for a living tried to sell you stuff to fix the problem you complained about? Weird....:razz:

Oh so I need all 4 products to lower my phosphates?
I went to another store and got a straight up answer "using phosdown is the least expensive and equally effective way to lower phosphates"

[Aquattro]

dont ya just hate that lol the nerve of some people who do they think they are lol


I do get it though. I got married earlier this year, and talked to a photographer about it, and he tried to sell me photo services. Although he was highly recommended, I doubt I'll ever deal with him again.

P.S. My head hurts....

[Aquattro]

Oh so I need all 4 products to lower my phosphates?
I went to another store and got a straight up answer "using phosdown is the least expensive and equally effective way to lower phosphates"

Well, ok, you didn't word it that he tried to sell you ALL those products at the same time. :) Not so cool...
Just razzin' ya :razz:

[MarkoD]

Well, ok, you didn't word it that he tried to sell you ALL those products at the same time. :) Not so cool...
Just razzin' ya :razz:

He basically told me to run gfo to lower the phosphates and then use bio pellets to maintain it. It just seemed like he was piling things on. And if I hadn't known better I would have probably bought everything he recommended

[MarkoD]

I do get it though. I got married earlier this year, and talked to a photographer about it, and he tried to sell me photo services. Although he was highly recommended, I doubt I'll ever deal with him again.

P.S. My head hurts....

Did he try and sell you additional photographers, additional prints, canvas prints, extra for pictures on a DVD?

[Aquattro]

Did he try and sell you additional photographers, additional prints, canvus prints, extra for pictures on a DVD?

Actually, ya..but no bad feelings, it's what they do. People that sell for a living need to do just that, sell. Now if this guy tried to sell you the magic cyano zapping ray gun, then that's bad. but if he tried to sell you a reasonable solution to the problem you took to him, then he's doing his job. The better he does his job, the nicer toys he can buy his kids for Christmas. It's how he makes a living. If you had bought his solution, it in all likelihood would have done the job you needed.
I expect my LFS to be good at his job, whether it's researching new technologies, maintaining healthy livestock and being friendly to me when I come in. But the flip side is, the primary purpose of all that stuff is sales. No sales, no store, no toys for kids.

[MarkoD]

Actually, ya..but no bad feelings, it's what they do. People that sell for a living need to do just that, sell. Now if this guy tried to sell you the magic cyano zapping ray gun, then that's bad. but if he tried to sell you a reasonable solution to the problem you took to him, then he's doing his job. The better he does his job, the nicer toys he can buy his kids for Christmas. It's how he makes a living. If you had bought his solution, it in all likelihood would have done the job you needed.
I expect my LFS to be good at his job, whether it's researching new technologies, maintaining healthy livestock and being friendly to me when I come in. But the flip side is, the primary purpose of all that stuff is sales. No sales, no store, no toys for kids.

But the lfs that gave me the straight forward answer and seemed to have my best interest in mind (cost effectiveness but still gets the job done), basically gets all my money now. And I have no problem recommending his store to anyone I encounter that has a tank.

Just like with anything. People like to have a "guy for that"
Like I have a tv guy, I have a car audio guy, I have a fish guy. They will always recommend that "guy"
And I believe that's the most important aspect of a successful business.

[Ryan]

I got it from the invoice of an LFS where I helped out my friend during several recent deliveries of fish and corals. Trust me, the local transhippers are charging an arm & a leg for shipping and handling. I am not "pulling numbers out my whazoo". The $1000 was for several boxes, but the fish and corals cost far less than the actual shipping/handling charges. They also charge far higher than bank exchange rates and that can quickly add up too. My numbers are accurate as of yesterday, not two years ago.



Suddenly the store changes from $1000/box to multiple boxes.

Thats believable, 3 boxes can easily be $1000 worth of shipping and fees.

As for the Purple tangs I am doubtful they are loosing money on them otherwise they wouldnt sell it for that price. Its one of the more successful shops in town, I dont think they are in it to loose.

[BlueWorldAquatic]

This may help clear up some questions people are asking.

First and foremost, you as the consumer always have the choice to where you shop, we as the retailer have the option to refuse services (Which we have in many cases). We as the businesses need you as much as you need us. If we don’t have customers we go out of business, if you don’t have more places to shop your prices WILL go up.

As for prices, all stores try to be consistent, most LFS’s in Edmonton deal with the same suppliers with the exception of the large BOX stores. If a price is out of whack, maybe mention it to the store as prices are not written in stone, maybe someone just priced it wrong.

As for a $300 purple tang, that should get you to wonder why it is that pricy? Especially the fact I can price an Achillies Tang at $350. Is it supply and demand? Since purple tangs are rare now as only places that have them readily are Yemen and Sri Lanka. Since Yemen is war torn right now, and no one is allowing any products from there on air cargo that only leaves Sri Lanka to fill the needs of consumers.

No business can sell things at a loss on an extended period of time, that’s not even considered “non-profit”, that is considered “bankruptcy”.

I have done some things in the past for “cost” for a new customer, got him a RSM250, blew away a box stores price, the customer swore left to right that we would be his “main” store, guess what? In a year no sight or sound of this customer, karma’s a bitch though, I hear from other sources that a pump died on it and he didn’t have the nerve to call us for support in which we would have helped him regardless.

Just the other day, a customer asked me for some salt at box store prices, I wouldn’t match the price, but was off by $2 (for 8 boxes). The customer didn’t see it as I was dropping it $18 from my retail price, but the fact I $2 short from the price the “other” store was offering. The only problem was I had it in stock, and they didn’t and were not offering rain checks.

Running a LFS is a lot of work, long hours, and later runs to the airport. In Edmonton we don’t have proper direct international flights to keep costs down. Flying inventory from Vancouver or Toronto or even Calgary can increase shipping costs by 100%, it costs as much to fly inventory from LA direct as it does from Vancouver.

Unless you are directly involved in dealing with the orders, you do not now the costs involved with them. Shipping, CITES, USFW, CFIA, and a lot of other acronyms I haven’t even listed, all of these take a piece of the pie, that is not including the businesses that supply the livestock or the agents (transhippers) cuts.

Where it comes down to, as a consumer you have final say. You can shop at your LFS, box store or online. That is your choice.

The moral of this story…..

Loss Leaders are a ploy from box stores to bring in new customers, as for retention if the services, knowledge and the vibe aren’t there they won’t be back. I speak from personal experience.

This will be my last post on this topic, as I feel a flame war arising soon.

Enjoy your holidays, enjoy the sales, enjoy your hobby.

[lastlight]

It just seemed like he was piling things on

Sounds like TV warranties quit your bitching =)

[dsaundry]

Running a LFS is a lot of work, long hours, and later runs to the airport.
No business can sell things at a loss on an extended period of time, that’s not even considered “non-profit”, that is considered “bankruptcy”.
Unless you are directly involved in dealing with the orders, you do not know the costs involved with them. Shipping, CITES, USFW, CFIA, and a lot of other acronyms I haven’t even listed, all of these take a piece of the pie, that is not including the businesses that supply the livestock or the agents (transhippers) cuts.
Agree with everything you said there, most people who run their own business understand the additional costs that are piled on by many different things. Sorry if this sounds condescending to some but unless you are running your own business especially if you employ other people, you have absolutely no clue what it really takes to run a business. I have had people say to me "Yeah I ran my own store so I know whats all involved" And when I asked them what happened to their store it's the same old story, "oh I closed it up, economy was bad."Or some other bs story. Talk to the store owner who has run his business for 20-30 yrs and they will tell you it's a crap load of work and blood sweat and tears. That doesn't even take into consideration how much the government and certain suppliers rape you with additional tax's and costs.

[MarkoD]

Sounds like TV warranties quit your bitching =)

Lol except when your tv effs up within 4 years you're glad you got it :)

I wish fish stores sold extended warranties on equipment.

[Parker]

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/7400000/Abe-Simpson-walking-in-and-out-the-simpsons-7414427-320-240.gif

[MarkoD]

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/7400000/Abe-Simpson-walking-in-and-out-the-simpsons-7414427-320-240.gif

Lol! Jokes on you. Youre not gonna get your post count up

Anyone want in on a royal nature salt group buy? Lol

[Parker]

Lol! Jokes on you. You're not gonna get your post count up


Post count does not concern me grasshopper... :lol:

BTW I fixed your spelling of you're.

[MarkoD]

Post count does not concern me grasshopper... :lol:

BTW I fixed your spelling of you're.

Thanks. I blame iPhone for that one.

*edit* it capitalizes the p in iPhone but doesn't always add apostrophes

[paddyob]

Did he try and sell you additional photographers, additional prints, canvas prints, extra for pictures on a DVD?

The Majority of add ons are a huge rip off.

My wife is in the industry... Visual communications design(graphic artist) and I am glad she can do anything our wedding photog could do ... Or our picture book would have cost $700. She did it for under 50. So how's the industry marko?

You can tell us about your sales perhaps instead of continuing ragging on rhe vendors, which is now painfully long and comes accross like you ate lacking any real insight or knowledge. Frack.

Seems you really like negative attention. Most your threads are antagonizing people... And most people , my self included , roll their eyes when you make any post.

I see more and more of the real you on here buddy. Maybe remove your business info. Reflects horribly.

I would never hire a guy with your attitude.

[Aquattro]

And I think we're done here...