A desperate time calls for desperate measures

[ColinD]

Okay so maybe not quite that dramatic, but I've been battling anthelia for many months/years now, have tried everything from scrubbing rocks, blow torch, kalk paste, to zapping them with a home made aiptaisia zapper with absolutely no luck, they just come back. Have been reading on RC about using 'fluke tabs' to rid them from aquariums, biggest problem being is that they (Fluke Tabs) are now out of production, wondering if anyone might have a secret stash or have seen any in their LFS. I only need 1 tab for my 30gal and after reading up on the treatment I'm pretty confident that it won't effect my predominately SPS inhabited reef (hate to say it but I'm willing to see a loss or two if it means eradication of this pest). Any help is appreciated.

Colin

[The Grizz]

Check out this site Colin

http://www.gotkoi.com/koi_medication/fluke.html

[ColinD]

Thanks Greg, from what I've read these tabs are no longer produced and are certainly not available in Canada or available for shipping to Canada, but will check these guys out. Was hoping someone might have a tablet or two they might be willing to part with.

Colin

[dreef]

Send me a pm :) shhhhh

[ColinD]

PM Sent :wink:

[daniella3d]

Oh my...that's a potent product that I would not dare use in my reef! you're brave.

I used to use it for my discus when they had flukes and finally went with permaganate potassium treatment as the fluke tabs was way too harsh on the poor fish. They would lose all their coloration and I had a few dead fish wherea I never lost a fish from the PP treatment. I wish I would have had those warnings available before I used the product then:

"Do not use on tropical fish from the Amazon River. Discuses are particularly sensitive. There is significant toxicity of the Carbamates to certain fish, most notably Discus and Catfish, who may be affected adversely."

I can attest that's true.

When I think that I am doing all I can to have these blue anthelia covering every available inches of my liverock! And some people are willing to wreak avok in their tank to get rid of it...wow.

BTW, did you try putting activated carbon? People report the total decline of the blue clove when using carbon.

[ColinD]

Oh my...that's a potent product that I would not dare use in my reef! you're brave.

I used to use it for my discus when they had flukes and finally went with permaganate potassium treatment as the fluke tabs was way too harsh on the poor fish. They would lose all their coloration and I had a few dead fish wherea I never lost a fish from the PP treatment. I wish I would have had those warnings available before I used the product then:

"Do not use on tropical fish from the Amazon River. Discuses are particularly sensitive. There is significant toxicity of the Carbamates to certain fish, most notably Discus and Catfish, who may be affected adversely."

I can attest that's true.

When I think that I am doing all I can to have these blue anthelia covering every available inches of my liverock! And some people are willing to wreak avok in their tank to get rid of it...wow.

BTW, did you try putting activated carbon? People report the total decline of the blue clove when using carbon.

At this stage in the game I'm willing to take a chance, I do not have any shrimp or soft corals in my system and the few Zoa's that I do have are covered in anthelia, it is actually attaching itself to the polyps.

I have tried carbon, it did effect a colony of pulsing zenia (that I traded away) but no luck with the anthelia, tried a filefish but it showed no interest in it.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/385490_10150409007306816_665866815_8903458_1186917 820_n.jpg

[daniella3d]

Oh I see. It's not the same thing that I tought you had and not the same thing that I have. The blue clove polyps growing in my tank and within my zoanthids are not bothering them and are much smaller and all blue.

I can understand why you want to kill them as those are ugly and big with long stalk and they seem to be upsetting your zoanthids.

Those look like nice palythoas with striped skin, what are they??

At this stage in the game I'm willing to take a chance, I do not have any shrimp or soft corals in my system and the few Zoa's that I do have are covered in anthelia, it is actually attaching itself to the polyps.

I have tried carbon, it did effect a colony of pulsing zenia (that I traded away) but no luck with the anthelia, tried a filefish but it showed no interest in it.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/385490_10150409007306816_665866815_8903458_1186917 820_n.jpg

[whatcaneyedo]

Move your rock to a dark location for a couple of weeks. The anthelia will then easily peel off of the rock. You can do one at a time if all of them at once is not feasible. At one point nearly every exposed inch of my rock that wasn't occupied by other coral had anthelia on it. Now I no longer have any in my tank.

2007 I think
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/pic108.jpg

2011
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/Picture2378.jpg

[ColinD]

Move your rock to a dark location for a couple of weeks. The anthelia will then easily peel off of the rock. You can do one at a time if all of them at once is not feasible. At one point nearly every exposed inch of my rock that wasn't occupied by other coral had anthelia on it. Now I no longer have any in my tank.



Unfortunately thats not an option at the moment, still a couple months away from my upgrade. Have never been able to peel any of this off the rock, it seems to grow as individual polyps and not the mats that everyone refers to.

Daniella, I believe they are ppe's

[daniella3d]

This is what I have growing in my zoanthids and pretty much everywhere on my liverock ramdomly. Does not seem to affect any coral nor my zoanthids. Is that the same thing that you have?

I strated a month ago with 3 king midas polyps and now I have about 12 and new babies growing, so they are not affected like yours, in fact the zoanthids seem to be taking over.


http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/daniella3ds/103_1052s.jpg

[ColinD]

I do have Blue Cloves as well, much more manageable compared to the anthelia/waving hand stuff. I guess if I do go ahead with the fluke tab treatment I will lose the cloves

[daniella3d]

Yes I think it's a good guess. I just hope you will not lose anything else.

I do have a few of the same polyps you have and now that I know it's so bad I will kill it while it is not yet spread.

I thought it was some xenia polyps but looking at it now it's not that.

I do have Blue Cloves as well, much more manageable compared to the anthelia/waving hand stuff. I guess if I do go ahead with the fluke tab treatment I will lose the cloves

[whatcaneyedo]

Seriously? You'd rather treat your tank with chemicals and risk a complete system crash than take out one rock at a time and sit it in the dark for a few weeks? Did you not look at my picture? I know full well what anthelia is and my method worked extremely well to eradicate it from my system. Here are some more pictures to show how infested my tank was. Anthelia is photosynthetic so leaving it in the dark slowly kills it. After a few weeks it won't be dead yet but it will have shrunk and its hold on your rocks will have weakened. At that point you'll be able to easily peel it off without leaving any pieces behind. If you have a dark unlit sump you could rotate rocks through there or you could do what I did and set up a plastic bin full of aquarium water with a heater and powerhead. Its simple, safe and inexpensive.

Have you thought about what is going to happen if you kill it all off at the same time while its still in your tank? A large amount of organic life suddenly dying will pollute your closed system very quickly. You'll need to do some massive water changes, skim and run carbon if you don't want it to crash the entire tank.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/29.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/Picture046.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/Picture020.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/Picture027.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/Picture026-1.jpg

[daniella3d]

Ok but what about the corals on the rocks? They will also die for sure without light for 3 weeks or more no?

Did you not lose any coral that was on those rocks?


After a few weeks it won't be dead yet but it will have shrunk and its hold on your rocks will have weakened. At that point you'll be able to easily peel it off without leaving any pieces behind.

[reefwars]

Ok but what about the corals on the rocks? They will also die for sure without light for 3 weeks or more no?

Did you not lose any coral that was on those rocks?



coralls can be removed from rocks easily enough, our systems arent as fragile as everyone thinks.

clove polyps and anthelia arent the same thing...like russell said anthelia is actuall easy to get rid of if you take away its food:)

[ColinD]

Seriously? You'd rather treat your tank with chemicals and risk a complete system crash than take out one rock at a time and sit it in the dark for a few weeks? Did you not look at my picture? I know full well what anthelia is and my method worked extremely well to eradicate it from my system. Here are some more pictures to show how infested my tank was. Anthelia is photosynthetic so leaving it in the dark slowly kills it. After a few weeks it won't be dead yet but it will have shrunk and its hold on your rocks will have weakened. At that point you'll be able to easily peel it off without leaving any pieces behind. If you have a dark unlit sump you could rotate rocks through there or you could do what I did and set up a plastic bin full of aquarium water with a heater and powerhead. Its simple, safe and inexpensive.

Have you thought about what is going to happen if you kill it all off at the same time while its still in your tank? A large amount of organic life suddenly dying will pollute your closed system very quickly. You'll need to do some massive water changes, skim and run carbon if you don't want it to crash the entire tank.



Yup, thats why I'm looking for the Fluke Tabs, well aware of potential outcomes as I have done my research. I've been dealing with this for a long time, even to the point where I was willing to let it grow and take over, but no more, it has to go.

Thanks
Colin

[whatcaneyedo]

Ok but what about the corals on the rocks? They will also die for sure without light for 3 weeks or more no?

Did you not lose any coral that was on those rocks?

Like reefwars suggested coral can be cut or broken off with a sharp edge, sturdy cutters or a saw capable of cutting through calcium carbonate. They can then be reattached using a variety of means that include but are not limited to securing them with fishing line, rubber bands, marine safe epoxy, zip ties, cyanoacrylate gel and natural settlement.

The only coral that I lost was anthelia because the rest did not leave my tank.

[daniella3d]

yes but some are really fragile and break easily. I know my orange digitata is well incrusted on the liverock and it is very fragile and break easily. Yes it can be glued back but it will not look the same for sure.

Plus I don't know about you guys but my liverock is glued with epoxy so removing it would mean to thear everything out of there...yike!

Like reefwars suggested coral can be cut or broken off with a sharp edge, sturdy cutters or a saw capable of cutting through calcium carbonate. They can then be reattached using a variety of means that include but are not limited to securing them with fishing line, rubber bands, marine safe epoxy, zip ties, cyanoacrylate gel and natural settlement.

The only coral that I lost was anthelia because the rest did not leave my tank.

[Delphinus]

Been there myself, I sympathize. You can get through this without a chemical based treatement. In my case, whatever I could I peel off glass and rock I would flush, and in the end I was able to sell the worst infested rock to FOWLR tanks where the angels and butterflies made quick work of them.

I remember someone on here a few years ago using an electric toothbrush to clean them off rocks and it working out well for them. Obviously use a cheap toothbrush and throw it out afterwards.

Good luck.

yes but some are really fragile and break easily. I know my orange digitata is well incrusted on the liverock and it is very fragile and break easily. Yes it can be glued back but it will not look the same for sure.


FWIW, SPS of any kind are the absolute easiest to deal with. If you break a branch, just superglue it back together. It will heal up and continue to grow. If you snap a colony off a rock to relocate it, glue it back, it will re-encrust in it's new home sooner or later.


Plus I don't know about you guys but my liverock is glued with epoxy so removing it would mean to thear everything out of there...yike!

A disappointing situation for sure but it's something we all have to face sooner or later. Just think of it as an opportunity to renovate your aquascape. :)

[ColinD]

Well here we are 1 week after the Fluke Tab treatment.

Before
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/385490_10150409007306816_665866815_8903458_1186917 820_n.jpg


After
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/395007_10150447737466816_665866815_9060954_1698011 078_n.jpg

all anthelia is gone, no remnants at all, did a 50% water change and I'm currently running carbon. Skimmer went crazy for a couple hours when I brought it back online but quickly returned to normal. Fish showed no ill effects, all corals are fine including torch, frogspawn, acans and SPS. May have lost a snail or 2, didn't see any dead worms.

So not sure if I got lucky or this treatment really works, either way I'm very pleased.

Big thanks to the member that provided me with a couple tabs, I really appreciate it.

Colin

[paddyob]

Move your rock to a dark location for a couple of weeks. The anthelia will then easily peel off of the rock. You can do one at a time if all of them at once is not feasible. At one point nearly every exposed inch of my rock that wasn't occupied by other coral had anthelia on it. Now I no longer have any in my tank.

2007 I think
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/pic108.jpg

2011
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/Picture2378.jpg


Off topic... Sorry, but I freakin love your tank!

[dreef]

Looking good Colin :) it worked !

[christyf5]

Wow! Thats awesome Colin! Congrats on being finally "free" :razz: :biggrin: