help a 150g newb - let's do this reef together

[jon in alberta]

Hey there,

I need all the help I can get.

Purchased my equipment 2nd hand from kijiji and want to start a reef tank.

Here's a pic and some instructions I have received thus far.

http://www.armadaenvironmental.com/canreef/Calgary-20111201-00105.jpg

filled it with water - hooray it doesn't leak!

here are my steps ...

1) Clean the inside of the tank with Vinegar and water.

2) Fill with regular water and let it sit for 24-28 hours.

3) Drain

4) Rinse the gravel in buckets to get all the small silt and branches out. (Caribsea Gravel)

5) Put gravel in the tank smooth out so it is level. (if you mess with it when the water is in you get a big silt storm and may have to wait days before you can see in the tank again.

6) Fill with Treated Water – turn on all your pumps and check for leaks in the system.

7) Add salt and bring to correct salinity and temperature

8) Add Base Rock and Live Rock.

9) Let the system run for 3 weeks before adding anything except a few snails. Run the lights for only 4 hours a day to let everything balance. Make sure the skimmer is running to pull out any silt and **** from the water.

10) Slowly add fish after 4-5 weeks. Only add a few fish first and let the system balance then add more.

11) Try some easy corals like LPS first then move to SPS corals after about 4 months when all your parameters are in check. Calcium, ALK, PH.

[reefwars]

sounds like you got grasp on it for sure just a couple of suggestions either buy new sand or rinse about 200 times and if your going to add sand first then make sure your rock touches the glass on the bottom i would personally go with new sand though.no light needed for cycling and watch your phosphates and nitrates as they are hard to get rid of when they are high but easy to control when the tank is new:):) cheers mate and welcome to the salty world any q's just fire away:)

[lpsreefer]

Nice start. Welcome to canreef.

[reefwars]

alot of people put eggcrate under there rock and then fill in and around with sand afterwards...heres a trick to no sand storm:

take a length of pvc or abs ppe(the wider diameter the better) cut it at a length where it can go all the way to the bottom of the tank , keeping the pipe straight so the bottom is flush fill the pipe with sand, slowly lift the pipe and your sand will come out slowly, you can also have sand where you want it in any amount without a dust storm, but rinse the sand first:)


if your adiment on putting the sand in before rock then put all the sand in and cover with a garbage bag and use dinner plates to hold the bag down, pour the water over the bag ,when the tank is full lift plates and bag slowly and then add rock:):)

[reefwars]

dont forget to level the stand as you fill:)

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

welcome to canreef,you sure picked the right forum to share your build.
From looking at the photo you provided one thing I don't like is your foam pad looks old and beat up I would get a thicker pad and a heavier gauge. From experience I like using the egg crate glued to the bottom of the tank as it gives support for your rock work, for filling the tank I would place the sand on the egg crate and have the RO hose right into the tank, yes it will take a couple days to fill but slowly without any storms :biggrin:. Enjoy your build.

[reefwars]

welcome to canreef,you sure picked the right forum to share your build.
From looking at the photo you provided one thing I don't like is your foam pad looks old and beat up I would get a thicker pad and a heavier gauge. From experience I like using the egg crate glued to the bottom of the tank as it gives support for your rock work, for filling the tank I would place the sand on the egg crate and have the RO hose right into the tank, yes it will take a couple days to fill but slowly without any storms :biggrin:. Enjoy your build.


+1 i use the pink 1" rigid styrofoam :)

[reefwars]

before you fill with water consider beefing up that stand a bit remember theres gonna be over a 1000lbs of water alone in a 150g tank do a search on here for stands theres some good designs to follow:)

[mark]

not sure what's in the overflow but have you put thoughts toward plumbing? If you need more holes/bulkheads obviously easier before the water added

[jon in alberta]

Thanks everyone.

Re: the styrofoam - yeah good call. I messed it up a little retrofitting the stand into the opening.

re: the support - I have a carpenter friend who said that what I have will likely do the trick. I still am thinking about cross-bracing some of those legs. Quick calc puts the weight of water at ~1300 lbs!

re: the plumbing - gotcha - that is my next step: I plan to drain it now and start punching holes in the wall to the right side. That will take me back into the laundry room (with a floor drain) where the sump will be.

My work pace: I hate to say this but this will probably take me a long time. unfortunately my regular job is keeping me really busy. So if I don't post for a while .. i haven't forgotten - I'm just busy!

[reefwars]

[quote=jon in alberta;656872]
re: the support - I have a carpenter friend who said that what I have will likely do the trick. I still am thinking about cross-bracing some of those legs. Quick calc puts the weight of water at ~1300 lbs!quote]



hes prob right it looks like the strongest stand ive ever seen and 1300lbs is nothing im sure it will hold up for years to come its ony water and weight what harm can they do.....cheers;)

[Canuckgod420]

[quote=jon in alberta;656872]
re: the support - I have a carpenter friend who said that what I have will likely do the trick. I still am thinking about cross-bracing some of those legs. Quick calc puts the weight of water at ~1300 lbs!quote]



hes prob right it looks like the strongest stand ive ever seen and 1300lbs is nothing im sure it will hold up for years to come its ony water and weight what harm can they do.....cheers;)

do i sense a little sacasm? lol

[reefwars]

[quote=reefwars;656875]

do i sense a little sacasm? lol


haha sorry not having a good morning lol


in all honesty in needs to be beefed up a bit i would def go with the supports for the bottom legs and add studs to the corners creating an " L " this will help be sure there are beams across the middle as well:)

one little shift and game over mate:):) cheers

[Blom]

[quote=Canuckgod420;656887]

in all honesty in needs to be beefed up a bit i would def go with the supports for the bottom legs and add studs to the corners creating an " L " this will help be sure there are beams across the middle as well:)

one little shift and game over mate:):) cheers

I would agree, that's one nightmare that you don't want to deal with. Overbuild the crap out of the stand for peace of mind.

[Leah]

Okay lets do it together at my house.

[The Grizz]

Forget beefing up a wood stand and just go METAL, never worry about your stand again :biggrin:

[jon in alberta]

Thanks everyone for the tips. I really appreciate it.

I am just finishing off the plumbing and starting to think about lighting. I have to buy new stuff, and am 99% convinced I want to go with LED (I know they are expensive).

Here is the question: how many do I need? Specifically, I am looking at the Radion LEDs - what should I be thinking about? Does the watts/gallon apply with LEDs? ... advice please.

[jon in alberta]

alot of people put eggcrate under there rock and then fill in and around with sand afterwards...

Thanks reefwars. you mention in another post about glueing down the eggcrate. If I get one big piece I presume that will not be necessary (the rock will hold it down). but just in case what kind of glue is ok?

also, should I be treating the water to remove organochlorines?

Thanks.

[jtbadco]

Maybe everyone has moved on but I would definitely beef up that stand.

As is it may be technically adequate but you always want to over build on a project this large.
For sure you should brace the legs around the bottom and add more 2x4's at the corners and even the center.

Just my opinion

[-=James=-]

Nice to see youre starting the tank Jon.

Radions cover about 2'x2' so I would buy 2-3 for your tank, depending on what you want to grow. You should look into the AI SOL too.
If you use tap water, treat it with Prime.

Good luck man

[jon in alberta]

yup on it jtbadco - thanks.

[reefwars]

yup on it jtbadco - thanks.


the eggcrate doesnt need to be glued down like you suggested i would almost make it the size of my tank bottom but i would keep it a few inchs away from the front or anywhere yourt tank will be viewed, so if your sand gets pushed around you wont end up seeing eggcrate endings.

[jon in alberta]

Specifically, I am looking at the Radion LEDs - what should I be thinking about? Does the watts/gallon apply with LEDs? ... advice please.

quoting myself ... ok?

So I am about to buy the Vertex Illumina 200 series 48" fixture (for my 60" tank). I hope that will be enough light down the road.

yikes! they are expensive ... but worth it IMO.

[jon in alberta]

anyone know any good references for aquascaping?

I have 100+ lbs of Marco live rock (dry) and am planing to add it to the aquarium before adding water. Will still need some living (cured?) rock to seed the aquarium.

please share you advice or what you might change.

Cheers

[Skimmerking]

anyone know any good references for aquascaping?

I have 100+ lbs of Marco live rock (dry) and am planing to add it to the aquarium before adding water. Will still need some living (cured?) rock to seed the aquarium.

please share you advice or what you might change.

Cheers
put it in and play with it and play some more until you like it., on my 240 i went with pillars. But you are limited to have what type of corals to grow on the rocks so I went back to leaning the rock in a wall like.

[lastlight]

What's the consensus with LED with regards to glass center braces? Is he ok to place one over that massive brace? Otherwise his scape might be somewhat dictated by that brace...

[jon in alberta]

What's the consensus with LED with regards to glass center braces? Is he ok to place one over that massive brace? Otherwise his scape might be somewhat dictated by that brace...

Thanks Brett,

I was just thinking the same thing tonight as I was working on the tank. The Vertex has the lights evenly spaced across the fixture. That would mean the middle lights would be obscured by my brace.

Does it make a difference? (the glass in the way). If so, I should go for the Radions and put them on either side of the glass brace, huh?

Jon

[lastlight]

With halides of course the heat issues would almost force you to use 2 lights and scape with two towers with a center valley. I'm asking not so much about the light penetration but the safety of have the LEDs over the glass brace. I'm thinking it would be ok as the fixtures are all designed to draw most of the heat out the top right?

[jon in alberta]

Hi All,

I have the coral in the tank ... here is a pic. Let me know what you think. I still have to add about 20 lbs of live rock when the time comes (probably this weekend). Also, I have vacuumed out all the plastic chips from the eggcrate (before you post about that)

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=669&pictureid=5135

I will be adding the sand shortly. I guess I can still move the corals after the sand and water ... but it will be a pain in the butt.

Thanks to asmodeus with the pillars suggestion - I kinda went for that on the left.

I bought the Vertex Illumina 260 from Red Coral (Randy here in Calgary was a big help). So I will be busy tonight hanging the LEDs and putting finishing touches on the stand.

[Nano]

that a neat aquascape so far! I like how one side will have more open space and the other will have caves, its balanced in that sense! good job

[jon in alberta]

another pic.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=669&pictureid=5136

here is a close up of the arches, before I put in the rock behind. Again, I am still filling in the seams between the coral with little rocks to make it look like one big continuous coral.

still have to find room for the live rock ... I wonder where I'll put that.

[Nano]

I would put the live rock in your sump, that way you can keep the open space in your tank for coral, and swimming, plus the live rock will still seed your tank. thats just my opinion though

[parkinsn]

+1 i use the pink 1" rigid styrofoam :)

Not to be a downer as you have come this far. But you should NOT put styro under a tank with the black plastic trim on it. Its creates uneven pressure on the glass which can crack the bottom (if I remember correctly that is the reason). Also use the pink stuff if your going to use any styro as it does not compress as much as the white.

The build looks good so far though.

I may retract that looking closer at your pic's. Do you have the gap between stand and glass or is it a L shape on the bottom and the glass sits flat on the plastic, if that makes sense?

[parkinsn]

Does it look like this or is flat on the bottom? If its flat, forget my other post and continue on you doing great!! :lol:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr41/parkinsn/PlasticTrim.jpg

[jon in alberta]

But you should NOT put styro under a tank with the black plastic trim on it.

Good point Parkinsn. I looked closely at that - and here is my reasoning why I don't plan to change it: this is the 3rd build with this styro (this tank is 3rd hand). I was worried about that same thing, that is until I looked closely at the styro underneath. it seems to have compressed to 'fit' the tank above perfectly. IMO I can't get a better fit and better support!

I hope that makes sense. I would take a photo for you - but I don't want to have to move all the coral in place.

[jon in alberta]

Does it look like this or is flat on the bottom?


Perfect!

thanks for the photo.

it is flat. maybe compacted the styro an additional 2mm from where the glass compacted it. Good catch tho. if it was like your photo, i really would have been sorry.

[Brandon5555]

I agree about the stand, IMO even if you put 2 4x4 center braces in, being that you wont have a sump underneath it cant hurt. Good luck and welcome to canreef! If you have any questions feel free to PM or just mass spam canreef haha

[jon in alberta]

So I thought I would post some pics, as I have reached the next stage. I spent a considerable amount of time this weekend on the tank (and the stand), and am about to add live rock.

Here are the photos:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=669&pictureid=5138

and here is the one during the Vertex's 'purple' demo cycle

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=669&pictureid=5139

I really like the Vertex LEDs (as long as I don't think about how much I paid for it!)

I will likely add the live rock in a couple of days from now - presuming the 'cloudiness' is gone. I will be adding it to my sump as per nanomano's suggestion. I don't want to break up the consistency of the Marco rock I have in there now.

Any ideas on the first critters I should add? snails ... a hearty fish?

[jon in alberta]

Hi all,

back from holiday (10 days). I was really excited to see what the live rock I put in my new tank did.

Well here is a close up picture:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=669&pictureid=5188

as you can see from this close up of a small fragment, there is some algae growing. Also, there is a whole bunch of brown 'film' all over the place.

My plan is to monitor water chem (to see if it has settled down) and maybe introduce a snail or another invertebrate. Suggestions please?

[jon in alberta]

calling all lighting enthusiasts ... share your thoughts about my lighting set up. What should i be doing at this phase of my tank (or does it really matter?)

I would be happy to try out your Vertex program file - if you want to share it with me.

Below is a screenshot of the vertex control panel, for the 'day' settings. as you may be able to see I have blue, royal blue, and white. How would you tinker with the timing, ramp time and intensity?

Thanks!

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=669&pictureid=5189

[jon in alberta]

Hi All,

Long time away - I have been busy, and also busy with the tank. But I come back to you again with an issue:

I have purchased an Elegance Coral from the LFS and it was fine, then it started swelling up (see the pic; sorry about the blue, I did't want to colour correct in fear that I might mis-represent the problem).

I did some reading, and it seems there are many issues (from protazoa to too much flow to pestering hermits) but the one I thought it might be is the lighting. I won't go into detail on my tank conditions (unless someone thiks that it is that), but I ask this: is my vertex illummnia 260 lighting too bright? I had the led whites turned up the highest (actually higher than in the picture of the previous post) - and from what I have read it seems that I may have sunburned my Elegance Coral. :cry:

Does this sound (and look) like a potential?

any Elegance Coral keepers with Vertex Illumina 260 or just using LEDs out there?

Thanks.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=669&pictureid=5381

[reefwars]

imo elegance are the trickiest lps to keep, its by far my favorite coral but its very fragile.


they love the light but its possible to burn them up their flesh is very delicate and they do not heal well unless your tank is VERY healthy.


elegance do not tend to do so well in new tanks or ulns systems, they need "dirtier" water.


having strong flow isnt ideal as well, plus elegance love to be fed.

unfortunately yours does not look like its going to make it, if it has been like that for a while it is prob slowly dieing.

its not uncommon for them to close up but they shoud not stay like this for more than a day or a half day.


if i were you i would move the elegance to a different spot and see how it reacts, and at the first sign of tentacles i would try feeding it(only once its open dont force feed it)

elegance also need to be in the sand bed, as they grow if they are on rocks their flesh will rub against rocks and then they can melt away(they do not take damage well)

my elegance is around 14" long and has about 10-15 mouths, i feed it once a day a hefty feeding of meaty foods, im only running halides but its on my sandbed directly under the 250w halides.mine doubles in size at peak lighting:)

good luck and cheers with this beautiful and tricky coral:)

[reefwars]

if worst comes to worst jon and you think you are going to lose it bring it to my house and ill trade you something for it and ill see if i can bring it back to life.....only if it comes to it though so your not out a coral:) cheers

[jon in alberta]

wow. reefwars you are awesome. I will likely take you up on that.

I just turned the lights down, so I am going to wait and see how things turn out. I did turkey baster some krill in there a few days ago when it opened up a bit. I will again if it opens again. Maybe middle of next week we will re-evaluate, and I may be PMing you.

Here is my concern although: much of my research points to a protozoa that apparently infects Elegance Coral, and "there is nothing you can do to stop it"? These same blog posts say that once it is in your tank you can never get rid of it. I wouldn't want to infect your healthy tank!

If you don't subscribe to this theory (sounds like you don't) I will be happy to relinquish my Elegance Coral for your TLC - if it comes to that.

[reefwars]

wow. reefwars you are awesome. I will likely take you up on that.

I just turned the lights down, so I am going to wait and see how things turn out. I did turkey baster some krill in there a few days ago when it opened up a bit. I will again if it opens again. Maybe middle of next week we will re-evaluate, and I may be PMing you.

Here is my concern although: much of my research points to a protozoa that apparently infects Elegance Coral, and "there is nothing you can do to stop it"? These same blog posts say that once it is in your tank you can never get rid of it. I wouldn't want to infect your healthy tank!

If you don't subscribe to this theory (sounds like you don't) I will be happy to relinquish my Elegance Coral for your TLC - if it comes to that.


no worries ive been in your boat im on my 5th or is it 6th elegance over the years, the first 4 i lost for diff reasons the 5th did fine and sold and the one i have currently is a monster.


they do catch infection easily , and they have alot of soft tissue area that can be at risk.


does it open at all for you now?? (if it does then its a very good sign)

any slime be it white or brown come from it??

can you see its skelaton, not the shell but the ridges under its body, does it look like the body is lifting or any tearing of the skin??

[paddyob]

Gravel? Or sand? Not many salt tanks use gravel. Was this a fresh water tank previously?

If so, ensure copper was never used.

[Nano]

if worst comes to worst jon and you think you are going to lose it bring it to my house and ill trade you something for it and ill see if i can bring it back to life.....only if it comes to it though so your not out a coral:) cheers

+1 point to you buddy

[jon in alberta]

does it open at all for you now?? (if it does then its a very good sign)

any slime be it white or brown come from it??

can you see its skelaton, not the shell but the ridges under its body, does it look like the body is lifting or any tearing of the skin??

Thanks for the help!

it does open - but only a fraction (~10%) of what it used to
there is white 'cob webby' stuff on it every morning
can't see the skeleton ... it is really just puffy all the time. it looks to be intact to the edge of the shell.

I am going to go get my SLR camera and take some good pics to send over tonight ... stay tuned!

Gravel? Or sand? Not many salt tanks use gravel. Was this a fresh water tank previously?

If so, ensure copper was never used.

Thanks for your interest paddyob!

gravel - well: I bought it from the LFS and it is finely crushed coral ... I believe. The regular stuff. Definitely not the sand you would find on a beach in Cancun!

I bought the tank second hand - it was used for salt water fish only prior ... and I cleaned it with vinegar and rinsed thoroughly prior to using. I have 2 other LPSs and a SPSs currently doing well in the tank.

[jon in alberta]

Here is a pic of the largest it opened today. Not much. Sorry abut the quality, my SLR pics turned out all blue, so this is my phone.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?alb

[Nano]

broken pic bud :)
Try again! :wink:

[jon in alberta]

broken pic bud :)
Try again! :wink:

Woops:lol:

Tablet is a learning process

[reefwars]

def looks mad, if its not opening for food then it will keep declining.def try moving it to the sandbed and somewhere it doesnt get as much flow.


heres what it should look like:)



http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad85/reefwars/90gallon%20reef/005-5.jpg?t=1333631699

[reefwars]

unfortunately elegance is something that does better in mature systems as they like nutrient rich waters and steady parameters.......hard things to combine in a new tank

[jon in alberta]

yeah i think it is time to throw in the towel, . i think i want to head this off before it is beyond saving. i am out of town until tomorrow, but i will come by soon to do the swap.

thanks again.

i will pm you to set up the meeting.

[reefwars]

yeah i think it is time to throw in the towel, . i think i want to head this off before it is beyond saving. i am out of town until tomorrow, but i will come by soon to do the swap.

thanks again.

i will pm you to set up the meeting.


for sure buddy i have around 200-250 frags im pretty sure i can send you away happy and save this little guy:)

[jon in alberta]

THanks a lot for your help reefwars - I hope the elegance makes it. The frags you provided are doing great. (and thanks for all the advice)

We'll have to have a beer and tour my tank sometime.

J

[reefwars]

THanks a lot for your help reefwars - I hope the elegance makes it. The frags you provided are doing great. (and thanks for all the advice)

We'll have to have a beer and tour my tank sometime.

J


no problem buddy , yesterday it made a good attempt at opening, id say it made it to about %50 open i have no doubt it will come back it just takes some time:)

glad to hear the frags are doing well for you if you need anything give me a shout :):) cheers