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View Full Version : Would like your expert opinion please!


reefgirl189
11-25-2011, 12:59 PM
Hello everyone.

I've got 12 years FW experience and am looking to jump into reefkeeping. Of course the costs of starting up brand new are high so I am looking for a gently used and well started system. I found this one:

http://reddeer.kijiji.ca/c-pets-other-pets-for-sale-Reef-tank-W0QQAdIdZ327414515

I'm very interested in it. The gentleman selling it says it IS NOT run off of a sump though. It comes with Metal Hallides, the whole shebang. It's been up and running for 4 years and is well established, the corals are healthy and growing and the livestock are happy.

So my question is:

Would you recommend this for a first time reefer? Or should I start from the ground up? I got a quote from Bow Valley aquatics (I know, I know... but I have time and patience on my side) and was also thinking of going that route.

Is it better to start from ground up little by little or do a big, complex move with a fully stocked enormous aquarium?

Also can you guys help me identify some of the corals in this tank?

Thanks!

SeaHorse_Fanatic
11-25-2011, 01:08 PM
For a tank that size and $3000, it really should be reef-ready with a big sump. In terms of corals, its almost all softies. Big one up top-middle is a toadstool leather. There are huge masses of waving hand anthelia (weed-type soft coral on the bottom). The rest are mainly zoas, palys, and different leather corals.

NOT worth buying IMO.

Look on Canreef. You can probably find a much nicer setup for much cheaper with sump, skimmer, lights, etc. and nicer corals (LPS and SPS - ie. hard corals) as opposed to the soft corals in this setup. Great for newbies, but not for $3000. Softies are much more forgiving, but without a sump, not reef-ready and just softies, the system is totally a rip-off.

Anthony

Aquattro
11-25-2011, 01:52 PM
Well said Anthony. Additionally, moving something like that could result in a cascade of issues. You'd have to unsettle all the rock and sand, potentially releasing lots of nutrients, which could result in huge algae outbreaks. In itself, that can be managed, but if you're new to SW, it could be more than you are able to deal with, and quickly end your time in the hobby.
I'm all for starting big, but that might be a bit much for a start in the hobby. Not much in FW translates over.

Proteus
11-25-2011, 02:36 PM
Don't do it. Start fresh and learn you way through it. I wish I had never bought a established set up. Everything from die off to tank collapse. Cost me twice as much in long run

russp
11-25-2011, 02:50 PM
In my opinion start from scratch for the reasons already posted & we enjoyed watching the reef come alive as we started . Every day there was something new to see , maybe a crab , macro algae , mushroom or a polyp . even when my children & granddaughters would come to the house they would go straight to the tank & grab the flashlight & start exploring . It was very rewarding to watch it grow & add a piece at a time . There are always great deals on equipment here & great advice too .

reefgirl189
11-25-2011, 03:46 PM
Thanks guys. I'm going to go with my Bow Valley tank then.

It's bowfront and he's throwing in a 130 gal sump and internal overflows for me.

The only downfall to this is I live in the middle of nowhere and the closest LFS who deals with Salt is in Edmonton, a 2 1/2 hour drive away. So adding new stock might be an endeavor. Oh well. I've never been one to back down from a challenge.

Thanks again,

Christina

reefgirl189
11-25-2011, 04:02 PM
Sorry forgot to add that I did look in the classifieds here on canreef. Lots of great deals but unfortunately I am looking for a specific footprint to fill my space.

The Tank has to be 6ft long and 24" Wide. Height not important. Unfortuantely this size of tanks are usually scooped up fairly quickly. I can't find anything here on site.

I looked around on Kijiji and found lots of great deals, or so I thought, but like a PP already mentioned, the big ordeal of moving is not really worth it. I guess I just liked this Red Deer one because it already had all the corals but now that I think about it moving this unit 5 hours down the higway in December would not be any kind of fun.

Aquattro
11-25-2011, 04:04 PM
A standard 180 fits that, and is fairly common here. That size never sells too quickly, and they're often fairly cheap.

Lampshade
11-25-2011, 04:09 PM
a 210 is the same footprint, just slightly taller, 180's are more common, but you may find a 210 as well. I'm casually looking for a tank (just the tank) the same size, hard to find.

Blom
11-25-2011, 04:13 PM
Too bad 6ft is your tops. Im selling a 180g but its 7ft long with a standard 180 for a sump.

reefwars
11-25-2011, 04:14 PM
im going to go the opposite route and say that buying a used set up can save huge cash if you look for the right one, ive moved probably a dozen setups and even one a 12hr trip in winter and ive lost nothing but a few fish and some corals and alot of them ive lost nothing.

that set up is def not worth 3000 but there are some good ones for alot less i personally wouldnt pay more than a 1000 for that particular set up.


buyiing all new is costly so if your starting fresh try to buy secondhand or lightly used equipment.


my lights alone for my tank cost more than what i paid for the whole set up and i lost nothing in the transfer and waited for a healthy good deal.....;) cheers

BlueWorldAquatic
11-25-2011, 04:18 PM
Welcome to the world of reefing!

The world you have known is not a thing of the past.

I had 30 years of FW and contemplated SW for about 10 more before I started my first 10 gal SW tank.

Now look at where I am?? every spare moment is working wth the damn fishies.


Best to start your first tank from scratch, this way you can learn and enjoy the pitfalls of the aquarium, and you will be better prepared if issues arrive.

I wish to offer you any support, and information as needed, as well most of the members of this forum.

As a LFS in Edmonton, I can also offer you free delivery (As long as you meet up with my truck) in Bonnyvill as I have visits twice a week with my outer company in town.

Ken - BWA

Proteus
11-25-2011, 04:41 PM
Marine aquaria. Edmonton has a 225 for sale 500 bucks tank and stand

reefgirl189
11-25-2011, 05:05 PM
Too bad 6ft is your tops. Im selling a 180g but its 7ft long with a standard 180 for a sump.


Ugh. Yeah trust me, if I could have the clearance for a nice 7 footer I would scoop up one of those in a heartbeat but 6 is my tops.

The thing about the potential BV tank is it will be a bow front, which is what I orignally wanted. I was just thinking of "settling" for a standard if the price is right.

reefgirl189
11-25-2011, 05:08 PM
Welcome to the world of reefing!

The world you have known is not a thing of the past.

I had 30 years of FW and contemplated SW for about 10 more before I started my first 10 gal SW tank.

Now look at where I am?? every spare moment is working wth the damn fishies.


Best to start your first tank from scratch, this way you can learn and enjoy the pitfalls of the aquarium, and you will be better prepared if issues arrive.

I wish to offer you any support, and information as needed, as well most of the members of this forum.

As a LFS in Edmonton, I can also offer you free delivery (As long as you meet up with my truck) in Bonnyvill as I have visits twice a week with my outer company in town.

Ken - BWA

Well thank-you for the warm welcome! I would certainly like to take you up on that offer of delivery once this project gets started.

daniella3d
11-25-2011, 07:15 PM
I will go with the flow. It is best to start from scratch and learn from the begining. Get to choose your liverock (porous!) and do a very nice aquascaping (avoid the rock wall look which is UGLY!) and get to see your coral grow from little frags.

If you buy an established system you are stuck with the previous problem...if the liverock is soaked with phosphate then you're stuck with it. Old liverock can become inefficient at filtration if it is full of phosphates or has its pores blocked.

There are some really nice aquascaping that you can do that will look a lot better than that tank. Plus all soft coral are not really worth much. The palythoas are ugly (very ugly) brown polyps that I ended up throwing in the garbage because they were ugly and nobody wanted them. Leathers are a pain because they often go on chimical warfare and are not much compatible with other corals.

The tank seem well maintained though but it's not 3000$ nice. Is it 190 gallons or 190 liters? it look small for a 190 gallons.

Coralgurl
11-25-2011, 08:09 PM
I'll jump in too, as a newb to salt - 9 months. First, finding a site like this before you buy will save you a lot of headaches and money because you can ask before you buy. There are loads of great folks here that are willing to help. Also, I don't think I would enjoy the hobby as much as I do if I had bought something already fully running. When we started adding fish, I thought it was alright, but as soon as I added my first coral, I was hooked. There will be one aspect of the hobby that will draw you in and won't let go, whether is SPS, LPS, fish, softies, etc. The other bit is learning about how to take care of these animals, something you can't do all at once. I've been trying different things in my tank and have finally decided how I want my tank to look, something I wouldn't have been able to do if I just took something over. I've seen lots of great set ups for sale here in the short time since I joined, you just need to watch for them. I want to go bigger next year, but I have tons of time to wait. That's the most important thing to learn in this hobby - patience...lol

Welcome to the site and look forward to seeing your tank once you get er rolling!
Cheers

globaldesigns
11-25-2011, 08:21 PM
I'll jump in too, as a newb to salt - 9 months. First, finding a site like this before you buy will save you a lot of headaches and money because you can ask before you buy. There are loads of great folks here that are willing to help. Also, I don't think I would enjoy the hobby as much as I do if I had bought something already fully running. When we started adding fish, I thought it was alright, but as soon as I added my first coral, I was hooked. There will be one aspect of the hobby that will draw you in and won't let go, whether is SPS, LPS, fish, softies, etc. The other bit is learning about how to take care of these animals, something you can't do all at once. I've been trying different things in my tank and have finally decided how I want my tank to look, something I wouldn't have been able to do if I just took something over. I've seen lots of great set ups for sale here in the short time since I joined, you just need to watch for them. I want to go bigger next year, but I have tons of time to wait. That's the most important thing to learn in this hobby - patience...lol

Welcome to the site and look forward to seeing your tank once you get er rolling!
Cheers

+1... Starting from scratch means you get to design it from the ground up. This means it is unique to you and its ALL YOURS! That is part of the fun, designing the tank, sump, mechanics... Then landscaping, then fish and coral, etc.

I would suggest starting from scratch, with a new tank or even a gently used one, as long as it is empty and ready for you to start from nothing.

There are alot of good deals on here, so don't dismiss them, but if you want new, check out Kevin @ Red Coral as he will design for you. He is also in the process I believe of designing packages ready to go, not sure if this is still the case, but worth contacting him to ask.

Have fun, it is a wild ride... I am also a FW guy since childhood, and I have dismissed ever having FW again, love my salt... Well most of the time, but that is another story.

reefgirl189
11-25-2011, 10:06 PM
The tank seem well maintained though but it's not 3000$ nice. Is it 190 gallons or 190 liters? it look small for a 190 gallons.


It's supposed to be a 290, but I think he's off on the measurement.

The dimnesions were 6'X2'X32" high

Which would make it around 240 I believe.

You guys are right, I'm glad to have found this place sooner rather than later. Thanks for talking some sense into me and (potentially) saving me some $$$.

The bow front I'm looking at would have internal overflows, a 130 sump, be 6'X2' at the sides bowing out by 6" so 30" at the center and 29" tall. I don't know exactly what that would make it volume wise but probably around 210? I haven't had larger than a 125 FW live planted but they always say bigger is better when it comes to either set-up. I guess that's what I'm going for here.

SeaHorse_Fanatic
11-25-2011, 10:20 PM
I would say keep your options open. You can often find really great deals on used or slightly used tanks/stands/etc, both with live rock and livestock or without anything but the equipment.

The thing you need to do is not jump in too quick. Figure out exactly what you are looking for (not just footprint) but also type of lights, skimmers, etc. Much of this will depend on your "must have" livestock wishlist (ie. sps vs mixed reef vs fishonly), as well as your budget.

You can also do a mix. Buy some stuff new and look for great deals in the classifieds.

Also, go visit Ken at Blue World Aquatics. He's a great guy and can give you some good pointers and you can then make arrangements to take him up on his offer of free delivery to Bonnyvill in the future.

If you've been doing salt for a long time like some of us, getting everything used is a great option because you already know what to look for and what to avoid. If you're a newbie looking to go big (or go home:wink:), then its a lot trickier to find what will work for you long-term.

You took the right first steps which is to find a tank system and then ask for help before making a commitment. One of my newbie friends didn't do that and ended up being terribly ripped off (not from a Canreefer, but from another buysell site).

180s and 210s come up for sale reasonably frequently. The bigger tanks are usually slower to sell so if you're not in a rush, keep checking the classifieds. Also, post a LF thread asking if anyone in your part of the world has a tank with that footprint for sale.

If you were in BC, I know of a couple tanks that would fit your space.:wink:

Good luck,

Anthony

SeaHorse_Fanatic
11-25-2011, 10:24 PM
That bowfront would probably be slightly over 240 gallons as well. I love the look of deep tanks, but they are a PITA when you have to stick your arm in & your armpits get wet:twised:

It's supposed to be a 290, but I think he's off on the measurement.

The dimnesions were 6'X2'X32" high

Which would make it around 240 I believe.

You guys are right, I'm glad to have found this place sooner rather than later. Thanks for talking some sense into me and (potentially) saving me some $$$.

The bow front I'm looking at would have internal overflows, a 130 sump, be 6'X2' at the sides bowing out by 6" so 30" at the center and 29" tall. I don't know exactly what that would make it volume wise but probably around 210? I haven't had larger than a 125 FW live planted but they always say bigger is better when it comes to either set-up. I guess that's what I'm going for here.

paddyob
11-25-2011, 10:41 PM
Well said Anthony. Additionally, moving something like that could result in a cascade of issues. You'd have to unsettle all the rock and sand, potentially releasing lots of nutrients, which could result in huge algae outbreaks. In itself, that can be managed, but if you're new to SW, it could be more than you are able to deal with, and quickly end your time in the hobby.
I'm all for starting big, but that might be a bit much for a start in the hobby. Not much in FW translates over.

It could also result in a complete system crash. A couple years back I moved from one apartment to another apartment - IN THE SAME BUILDING - and it upset the balance and killed off all my fish and most corals.

I would say buy used, but empty.

Good luck.

reefgirl189
11-26-2011, 03:00 AM
180s and 210s come up for sale reasonably frequently. The bigger tanks are usually slower to sell so if you're not in a rush, keep checking the classifieds. Also, post a LF thread asking if anyone in your part of the world has a tank with that footprint for sale.

If you were in BC, I know of a couple tanks that would fit your space.:wink:

Good luck,

Anthony

Thanks, I'll post an ad. Any chance of you coming to Alberta with those "couple tanks" *wink lol