HELP HELP HELP SERIOUS PROBLEM!!!!!

[Nano]

Look at my Alkalinity specifically I was using test strips before, newb mistake I KNOW!! But what do I do!?!?!
PARAMS
Salinity 1.0235
CA 320
ph 8.1
Ammonia 0 ppm
Alk/Kh 27???? WTF?
Phosphate less then .25
Nitrites 0 ppm
Nitrates 0 ppm

What do I do about my alkalinity? and my calcium is a bit low too! AHHHH I'M NEVER USING TEST STRIPS AGAIN! I am now using API liquid tests and ELOS SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!!:noidea::microwav:

[FitoPharmer]

Change some water is your best bet whenever something is wrong with your water parameters.

How did it get that high? dosing & poor quality tests?

High alk is not the worst thing to happen. If everything looks fine in your tank don't rush to change it back or you could cause more problems. Almost everything good happens slowly.

[Nano]

Change some water is your best bet whenever something is wrong with your water parameters.

How did it get that high? dosing & poor quality tests?

High alk is not the worst thing to happen. If everything looks fine in your tank don't rush to change it back or you could cause more problems. Almost everything good happens slowly.

The only thing I was doing was dosing aragamilk cause I am new an big Als told me to for ph. I now find out its for calcium... I am so afraid I'm just f-ing things up! is my test kit bad? I just bought it this week! I checked 3 times on the alk, everything else was accurate to my other test kits, alk is the only kit I am having problems with and yeah its high, its more then twice what it should be. The test KIT is by "API"

[gregzz4]

I'm not an experienced reefer yet but from what I see, one of your tests is still off.
I found this on the web for you

Here's a chart that shows what alk should be in relation to calcium.

Alk meq/L Alk dKH Calcium ppm
0------------0-----------360
0.5----------1.4---------370
1------------2.8---------380
1.5----------4.2---------390
2------------5.6---------400
2.5----------7---------410
3------------8.4---------420
3.5----------9.8---------430
4------------11.2---------440
4.5----------12.6---------450
5------------14---------460
5.5----------15.4---------470
6------------16.8---------480
6.5----------18.2---------490
7------------19.6---------500

So either you alk test is off, or your calcium test
But wait to hear from others as I may be missing something
Good luck

[Nano]

I'm not an experienced reefer yet but from what I see, one of your tests is still off.
I found this on the web for you

Here's a chart that shows what alk should be in relation to calcium.

Alk meq/L Alk dKH Calcium ppm
0------------0-----------360
0.5----------1.4---------370
1------------2.8---------380
1.5----------4.2---------390
2------------5.6---------400
2.5----------7---------410
3------------8.4---------420
3.5----------9.8---------430
4------------11.2---------440
4.5----------12.6---------450
5------------14---------460
5.5----------15.4---------470
6------------16.8---------480
6.5----------18.2---------490
7------------19.6---------500

So either you alk test is off, or your calcium test
But wait to hear from others as I may be missing something
Good luck

BIG ALS YOU BETTER REFUND ME! I AM SO TICKED

[gregzz4]

Do you have a good LFS nearby? And I mean a true SW store
I'd be inclined to have someone test your water for you
Then you can crap on Big Als if it's deemed fair
Until then, do some more research tonight so you can sleep knowing you haven't nuked your guys

[Nano]

Do you have a good LFS nearby? And I mean a true SW store
I'd be inclined to have someone test your water for you
Then you can crap on Big Als if it's deemed fair
Until then, do some more research tonight so you can sleep knowing you haven't nuked your guys

I live out of the city(edmonton) but am going there tomorrow, big als was where I got my test kit cause they "seemed" to know what they were talking about.. now I'm so confused lol. I havent nuked my tank cause odds are its been like this since day one! everything is alive and well at the moment, but I'm concerned no and rightfully so

[Aquattro]

Do a water change, buy some good test kits (Elos or Salifert) and retest. If your alk was 27, everything would be dead, so it's not 27. Ca is way too low and if you're using any good brand name salt, your number is off there as well.
To confirm, test the new water you make and post the brand of salt and the values. And find a good LFS that will give you better advice.

[Aquattro]

And get that refractometer and get your salinity to 35ppt.

[Nano]

Do a water change, buy some good test kits (Elos or Salifert) and retest. If your alk was 27, everything would be dead, so it's not 27. Ca is way too low and if you're using any good brand name salt, your number is off there as well.
To confirm, test the new water you make and post the brand of salt and the values. And find a good LFS that will give you better advice.

Salt is instant ocean reef crystals, values are... I dont know? lol
Calcium at a SG 31.ppt salinity of 1.023(which I have) 405 ppm
and magnesium at the same salinity is 1200 ppm
these are the only values I can find..

[Nano]

And get that refractometer and get your salinity to 35ppt.

money isnt exactly my strong point at the moment I had my hydrometer compared to a refractometer though and its .003 high

[gregzz4]

And get that refractometer and get your salinity to 35ppt.
Good point
Now I feel bad for not even spotting that
You're @ 1.023
You know that's low right?

[Nano]

Good point
Now I feel bad for not even spotting that
You're @ 1.023
You know that's low right?

see now big als told me 1.023.. they are the reason I am failing at this! you guys are the reason I am correcting my mistakes. thanks so much so should I mix up some fresh saltwater at a higher salinity say around 1.026? to start raising it?

[gregzz4]

If you've been running it for awhile @ 1.023 I'd suggest you bring it up slowly. Like over the next week. Otherwise you'll just upset everyone
Remember, nothing good in a SW tank happens quickly

[Nano]

If you've been running it for awhile @ 1.023 I'd suggest you bring it up slowly. Like over the next week or 2. Otherwise you'll just upset everyone
Remember, nothing good in a SW tank happens quickly

so if I have a 20 gallon tank, and I do a 20% wc at a salinity of say 1.024-1.025 is this too much? or should I do like 10%

[gregzz4]

Hopefully someone more experienced than myself will chime in here...
I'd think you'd want to change small amounts daily with a higher SG
How much I can't say, my reef is still on the drawing board

And stick to your regular WC routines
Don't go nuts...slow changes :lol:

[Nano]

ok well since my tank is small, I think I will do one gallon tonight at a salinity of 1.0245 that way its just a small increase I'm also going to test my fresh batch to make sure that my tank really isnt screwed this bad lol.. I'm so agravated lol

[Aquattro]

Salt is instant ocean reef crystals, values are... I dont know? lol
Calcium at a SG 31.ppt salinity of 1.023(which I have) 405 ppm
and magnesium at the same salinity is 1200 ppm
these are the only values I can find..

No, don't find them, measure them. That way you know how accurate your test kit is.

[Aquattro]

money isnt exactly my strong point at the moment I had my hydrometer compared to a refractometer though and its .003 high

I did the same, but it will drift on you. Trust me. A refractometer is an essential piece of equipment :)

[Aquattro]

see now big als told me 1.023.. they are the reason I am failing at this!

That won't do anything bad, but the values people post for Ca and Alk are for natural seawater conditions, which, on most equatorial reefs, is 35ppt at 80 degrees F

[Nano]

That won't do anything bad, but the values people post for Ca and Alk are for natural seawater conditions, which, on most equatorial reefs, is 35ppt at 80 degrees F

k so I just finished a calcium test on a fresh batch and its saying 420 compared to 320 in my tank. I wil do the alk, and then update but I am beginning to think it is my tank thats off now...:sad:

[Aquattro]

Ok, so we know Ca kit is probably good. 320 is low. Once you get the salinity balanced out, do a large water change. Do not dose anything :)

[Nano]

k so my alkalinity is still reading high on the new batch at 24dkh which I'm guessing this means I got a rotten test kit. everything else is accurate from what I can tell.. so if my calcium is reading 420 now in the new batch compared to 320 the alk should realistically be ok right?

[Nano]

Ok, so we know Ca kit is probably good. 320 is low. Once you get the salinity balanced out, do a large water change. Do not dose anything :)

again thanks so much man, I'd be lost with out you guys.

[Nano]

seeing as though I know my hydrometer is off by .003 cause it was just compared to a refractometer on wednesday, I made a mistake saying it was 1.023, I checked it 5 times and it reads 1.0215(so + .003=1.0245) so my actual salinity is 1.0245 so its just slightly low, but tomorrow I am going to have my hydrometer checked again as well as take a water sample for testing, and replace the bad alk test kit.
other then that my params
PARAMS
Salinity 1.0235---actually is 1.0245
CA 320-----accurate but bringing it up slowly
ph 8.1 accurate
Ammonia 0 ppm accurate
Alk/Kh 27???? WTF?--broken test kit
Phosphate less then .25---is this ok?
Nitrites 0 ppm---accurate
Nitrates 0 ppm---accurate

so all this being said, should I still hold off on my fish purchase if this is my actual parameters? or are they in fact ok?

[gregzz4]

Good to hear your SG is almost great
About your PO4...
Is yours a reef tank? If so, I understand you want no measurable phosphates
If it's a FOWLER you should be OK, but the phosphates may create algae
Plus, they will eventually build up in your rock and sand. Then you'll have fun getting rid of it

And as far as having your SG tested @ the LFS goes, unless they have a way to bring the water back up to your tank's temp, don't bother, but definately have your hydrometer tested again, and your other params too

I'd hold off on the fish until you find out where you truly are @ with your alkalinity

And not to harp on you but, buy a refractometer before you spend money on fish
Maybe you can find a used one here on the forums?

[Nano]

Good to hear your SG is almost great
About your PO4...
Is yours a reef tank? If so, I understand you want no measurable phosphates
If it's a FOWLER you should be OK, but the phosphates may create algae
Plus, they will eventually build up in your rock and sand. Then you'll have fun getting rid of it

And as far as having your SG tested @ the LFS goes, unless they have a way to bring the water back up to your tank's temp, don't bother, but definately have your hydrometer tested again, and your other params too

I'd hold off on the fish until you find out where you truly are @ with your alkalinity

And not to harp on you but, buy a refractometer before you spend money on fish
Maybe you can find a used one here on the forums?

thanks will do! I think my phosphates might be a bit measurable, because I'm due for a water change

[Madreefer]

Safe yourself some problems and probably some cash. Stop going to stores like that. Theres some good stores in Edmonton that are mentioned on this site often and are sponsors. Blue World Aquatic and Red Coral Aquarium. Never been to either but also have'nt seen any bad comments about them. Also try to get your hands on this book. It's a good one.
http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/lit-cma2/Conscientious+Marine+Aquarist+-+2nd+Edition+by+R.+Fenner+%28Hardcover%29.html

[Nano]

Safe yourself some problems and probably some cash. Stop going to stores like that. Theres some good stores in Edmonton that are mentioned on this site often and are sponsors. Blue World Aquatic and Red Coral Aquarium. Never been to either but also have'nt seen any bad comments about them. Also try to get your hands on this book. It's a good one.
http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/lit-cma2/Conscientious+Marine+Aquarist+-+2nd+Edition+by+R.+Fenner+%28Hardcover%29.html

yes these places I like alot better, more knowledgeable staff as well as better prices and no bull SHH.. also another great store is marine aquaria, not a huge selection, but again honest staff, and more knowledge. there is one guy there who has served me a few times, he wont try to push you to buy things, or tell you "It should be ok" just to make a sale. but I havent ever had a water test there.

[gregzz4]

Safe yourself some problems and probably some cash. Stop going to stores like that. Theres some good stores in Edmonton that are mentioned on this site often and are sponsors. Blue World Aquatic and Red Coral Aquarium
This is what I was getting at on page 1 when I asked if there were any true SW stores nearby you

[Nano]

ooops sorry my bad :lol: Hey I found a refractometer on kijiji in edmonton for $30 it looks like its in great shape, its a Sybon is this a good deal? its regular $59.95

[gregzz4]

As long as nothing is broken, scoop it up
Just make sure the sample lens is not scratched up
And check the focus on the eye socket
Good luck, it's a great deal
I've never seen a used one that cheap out here

[Nano]

As long as nothing is broken, scoop it up
Just make sure the sample lens is not scratched up
And check the focus on the eye socket
Good luck, it's a great deal
I've never seen a used one that cheap out here

well there is a picture, lol but a pictures worth 1000 words, it looks pristine but as you said I have to actually look at it

[Myka]

Nanomano, I can tell by looking at your tank that the alkalinity is not at 27 dKH. I think you goofed on the test. Re-read the instructions from beginning to end, then test again following the steps one by one. The alkalinity kit is really easy, and the API alkalinity kit is actually quite a good one even though it is cheaper. The Salifert alkalinity kit will test 1-2 dKH higher than it actually is, so I don't like Salifert for alkalinity, but API and Elos are both good for alkalinity and will both give you a really similar reading.

IIRC, the API kit is 1 drop = 1 dKH. First it turns blue, then it turns yellow. When it is clear yellow you stop adding drops. Is that what you did? Did you have to add 27 drops to get it to turn yellow? I have a feeling that the dKH is half of that, and you goofed some weird calculation you did...?

The AragaMILK is essentially really, really fine aragonite sand and at saltwater pH values it will not dissolve. It doesn't really do anything at all.

Reef Crystals out of the bucket will be around 500 ppm calcium, 8 dKH, and mg I can't remember. Mix up a batch of saltwater (to 35 ppt or 1.025-6), let it mix with a powerhead for 24 hours. Double check salinity then test calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium. This will tell you what the waterchange water is, which is important to know. Are you using tap water or RO or RO/DI?

Since you got your hydrometer calibrated, you can still use it will no issues. Just remember to re-calibrate it every 6 months.

From Wetaskiwin, Blue World is probably the closest "REAL" saltwater store to you. It is actually only a few blocks away from the Big Al's in the south end. Go there instead! ;) Red Coral in the north end is good too, and Aquarium Illusions is up there too (more west of Red Coral), but I haven't talked much to the staff at AI so I can't vouch for them.

[paddyob]

BIG ALS YOU BETTER REFUND ME! I AM SO TICKED

Relax. Problem is not so bad. BA does tend to have under educated staff but their products should not be to blame.

Aragamilk is primarily for Ca bu is more of a cocktail mixture. It should raise your parameters as s whole.

If you move you Kh too quick you can cause major Ph swings and that can cause more trouble than being high.

Research. Number one in this hobby. Do lots before buying anything.

Good luck.

Ps... Shake the hell outta the bottle when using it.

[daniella3d]

Why not get a refractometer and toss the guess work?

It's around 20$ at ebay with automatic temperature compensation (ATC).

This is by far the most important piece of equipement to have when you start in saltwater. Hydrometer can be off too much and they can swing in that margin too much. Even when you think you know, it can still be off. Take out the guess work, buy a refractometer.


seeing as though I know my hydrometer is off by .003 cause it was just compared to a refractometer on wednesday, I made a mistake saying it was 1.023, I checked it 5 times and it reads 1.0215(so + .003=1.0245) so my actual salinity is 1.0245 so its just slightly low, but tomorrow I am going to have my hydrometer checked again as well as take a water sample for testing, and replace the bad alk test kit.
other then that my params
PARAMS
Salinity 1.0235---actually is 1.0245
CA 320-----accurate but bringing it up slowly
ph 8.1 accurate
Ammonia 0 ppm accurate
Alk/Kh 27???? WTF?--broken test kit
Phosphate less then .25---is this ok?
Nitrites 0 ppm---accurate
Nitrates 0 ppm---accurate

so all this being said, should I still hold off on my fish purchase if this is my actual parameters? or are they in fact ok?

[reefwars]

dude trust me slow down , your tank is new and your also new to the hobby i wouldnt be dosing anything at all. if i were you i would forget about alk,cal and mg for a short while.... do some water changes and forget about your tests. water changes will bring you back to where you need to be since your tank prob doesnt actually consume anything.its a 20g right?? in a 20g with a few water changes you will be where you need to be in no time and it wont cost a fortune in salt. bring your water in for testing to an lfs for now.buy good quality test kits i prefer elos for most and api for nitrate and amonia. do the test over and over but do not dose anything.if after a couple weeks your levels stay consistant with water changes then you can try to figure out whats low and for what reason.when dosing you ABSOLUTELY NEED TO KNOW WHY YOUR LOW OR HIGH or you wont know what to dose or why to dose.dosing blindly is bad, adding only one thing like calcium is also bad when dosing daily and in a small tank of 20g. just do some frequent water changes and let your eyes be the judge. once you start to add corals and your tank gets more full and mature you can start to see what your tank uses up.i think youll find at the stage your in your tank doesnt use practically anything.start with calcium keep an eye on it and do water changes, test before and after the water change, if your at 320 keep doing the water changes and watch it go up slowly, once your at where you need to be(i like 420) then watch your alk, it should also be where it needs to be.with a tank as small as 20g and not a full blown mature reeftank water changes is all you will need......keep it simple is the key;)



salinity at 1.023 isnt bad salinity above 1.026 is bad so its better to be slightly lower than higer, you dont need to add salt to raise your salinity let evaporation do it for you its slow and free, then just replace the salt at the level that matches your tank;)get a refractometer hehehe:):)

[spawn]

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, is that if you do your mixing in a 5 gal pail with a pump & a heater, it takes 2 2/3 of a household measuring cup to mix your water to 1.026 @ 79 degrees. So if you want to mix your new batch at 1.024 just put a little bit less salt then that, & you should know that your water is very close in terms of sal.

[Nano]

k again, thanks guys.. I hate being the newb.. its so frustrating, and I'm sure most of you have been where I am at some point. I'm just glad I have the help. I am getting a refractometer today. you know to top of all my other problems, my only fish (Ocellaris Clown) has ICH. ughhh.... so I am treating him with ich attack. I use garlic rich food (new life spectrum with garlic) and he is still eating, but today I came and saw he is covered head to tail poor guy. I know this is a typical thing to say, but I just feel like giving up, I am afraid of killing everything.
the few zoos and ricordea I have are fine, and my clean up crew as well are fine. I just don't get it. lol.. I'm going nuts over here!! :lol::lol::lol: I mean fresh water is a breeze but this is just giving me a brain tumor.

[Blom]

Well as many have said you need to slow down... fresh water is easy because most people don't over think it.... tank, water, fish... pretty easy. Ive noticed that there are alot of people who over think these salt water tanks at the start. Just worry about your temp, ph, and sg. I test for nitrates from time to time just to see, but I can usually tell from looking in the tank if somethings off. The old hammer coral shrivels up like George off Seinfeld. There is no need to panic... a small water change can have a big difference. Its basically the only thing I need to do to get the water parameters back into a good range. And remember Big Als is like a walmart, lots of stuff, some good some not so. But it is for the most part a one stop shop, I just tend not to talk to the staff lol. Over the next bit you will figure your tank out and have more confidence to deal with it.

[Zarstar]

Is there anything wrong with the tanks inhabitants? and the test kit is probably expired or contaminated. If your alkalinity was that high everything would likely be dead or dying. Have someone else test your water.

[paddyob]

Well as many have said you need to slow down... fresh water is easy because most people don't over think it.... tank, water, fish... pretty easy. Ive noticed that there are alot of people who over think these salt water tanks at the start. Just worry about your temp, ph, and sg. I test for nitrates from time to time just to see, but I can usually tell from looking in the tank if somethings off. The old hammer coral shrivels up like George off Seinfeld. There is no need to panic... a small water change can have a big difference. Its basically the only thing I need to do to get the water parameters back into a good range. And remember Big Als is like a walmart, lots of stuff, some good some not so. But it is for the most part a one stop shop, I just tend not to talk to the staff lol. Over the next bit you will figure your tank out and have more confidence to deal with it.



Don't even worry about Ph. If you play with that you might cause more issues. I have never dosed a thing to control ph.

It's the last thingnon the list.

Denny has it pegged. +1.

[Nano]

Is there anything wrong with the tanks inhabitants? and the test kit is probably expired or contaminated. If your alkalinity was that high everything would likely be dead or dying. Have someone else test your water.

no everyones fine, just my clown has ich lol argh.. my corals are all opened and mushrooms have split a few times, other then that ich is the only other problem.

[Blom]

Don't even worry about Ph. If you play with that you might cause more issues. I have never dosed a thing to control ph.

It's the last thingnon the list.

Denny has it pegged. +1.

Never said dose anything... just monitor. To be honest Im starting to get more out of my pH trend off the profilux. Ive noticed a cycle from my water change schedual. After a water change I see an overall gain in my pH of approx 0.2. Not a big gain, but enough that it keeps my night pH swing above 8.0 and 8.3 during the day. If I neglect a weekly water change then the pH starts to dip in the second week. At night I can dip just below 7.9. I dont dose anything at all. I just think that as someone who is new to salt water it is important to watch the parameters to gain some incite into the working of your tank.

[Myka]

I agree that you are better off monitoring and doing waterchanges right now than trying to dose anything. If you do a weekly 15% waterchange the parameters should stay pretty good because you only have a few corals that will use calcium and alkalinity anyway.

[outacontrol]

Do you have any coral?
You are new and should not need to be dosing anything, regular water changes will keep everything in the proper values for Fish and basic coral.

[gregzz4]

I hate being the newb.. its so frustrating, and I'm sure most of you have been where I am at some point. I'm just glad I have the help
Hehe, just you wait. I haven't found a tank yet but when I do, you can help me :smile:

And not to hijack the thread...
Myka, I'm sick and couldn't sleep so I read your 90g build last night (this morning ). The whole thread. Whew.
Glad to see you are sticking to it
I learned so much. Plus your links.
Thanks for your contributions
PS: it's your fault that I'm re-thinking a FOWLER with a 6 bulb t5...150w twin MH and LPS maybe :x-mas:

[Nano]

Hehe, just you wait. I haven't found a tank yet but when I do, you can help me :smile:

And not to hijack the thread...
Myka, I'm sick and couldn't sleep so I read your 90g build last night (this morning ). The whole thread. Whew.
Glad to see you are sticking to it
I learned so much. Plus your links.
Thanks for your contributions

no worries hopefully I wont be totally useless at this by then haha. and yes myka is a very useful user! lots of good threads

[gregzz4]

no worries hopefully I wont be totally useless at this by then haha. and yes myka is a very useful user! lots of good threads
Oh, dude... I'm sure she is so happy she's useful :redface:
We know what you mean but, err, maybe knowledgeable, or, helpful... :mrgreen:

[Nano]

Oh, dude... I'm sure she is so happy she's useful :redface:
We know what you mean but, err, maybe knowledgeable, or, helpful... :mrgreen:

lol yeah you know what I mean:mrgreen: