Best top off system?

[Hustler]

Im looking to get this top off thing going asap....
I need it to go in the sump far chamber....
Shouldnt have any critters in there.... and I can whip up just about any kind of res and have pumps already.... Ill be doing an order online right away and would love to add a controller or whatever it is i need on it asap :)
Thanks folks

[bignose]

tunze.

[Maverick00]

tunze.

agreed :) never had any issues and works great. (only one ive tried)

[The Grizz]

Elos makes a nice unit as well, comes with a pump, hose & control. Just plug it in, set the sensor & you done.

I just installed a JBJ into my 165 gal & so far it's a good unit as well.

[Hustler]

Right on ill check em out... gotta do a j&l order i guess as no one has much of what i need in stock so Ill add one to it :)

[The Grizz]

Check out Concept's web site, if it's equipment your looking for ask Dave if he can get it & I am sure he can.

[mike31154]

Don't know about best, but IMO, simple is better if you have the room to do it. By this I mean an elevated reservoir gravity feeding your sump/display through a simple mechanical float valve. Only a couple of failure modes & no electrical gizmos to break.

[ScubaSteve]

+1 on Tunze

[Bblinks]

I got 2 Tunze ato and so far no issues, sensor is a bit sensitive, a bad angle can throw it off but it's easy enough to manage. My vote is for Tunze but mind you I have never tried the Elos unit.

[frizzo1983]

I have had Tunze and other top off systems but nothing has worked better than the Genesis Storm system never failed tones of backup protection and is refills your fresh water from your ro/di unit. I have not touched it since i set it up... going to buy the renew to do auto water changes too. Just my honest opinion nothing works better than tried and tested float switches they never get film on them and in my case always work. tunze you replace too many pumps if you forget to top off your bin.

http://www.genesisreefsystems.com/

[Myka]

The Tunze Osmolator is the ONLY top off unit that is allowed on my systems. It has an optic sensor and a float sensor back up with alarm. I have 3 of them that I have had for years, and none have failed me yet. Replacement pumps are stocked at J&L Aquatics (and other places too I'm sure) too, so if there is pump failure a quick and easy fix is just a couple days away (J&L has quick shipping).

[Lampshade]

I have a rubbermaid bin that feeds my tank on a float switch. I turn on my RODI unit once every couple days to fill up the bin that has a float switch in it as well for when I forget to turn it off... oooo.. like right now. My bin sits partially below my sump water level when empty, it allows me to store 30 gallons of RO, with only the risk of 15 gallons getting to my tank if somehow my tank's float fails. I've also got a bin filled in the garage for emergency's. but the 30 gallons is used regularly for water changes.

I've been using the same float for 3 years now, as long as you put it somewhere where it'll get rinsed, there's little risk of the salt build up stopping it from sealing.

But yeah, if I where to buy a nice one I'd go tunze, i did this because it was a $15 float switch and works. Lots of great reviews on the tunze, which is hard with something like this, because the people with the negative experiences would be really ****ed, and speak the loudest.

[lastlight]

I've had two Tunze units (one used and one new) and zero problems with either. As said already you want to avoid the pump running dry I suspect this is the cause for all the pump failures. I've also never cleaned my sensors and they've worked perfectly.

[fishytime]

Tunze

[Myka]

I've had two Tunze units (one used and one new) and zero problems with either. As said already you want to avoid the pump running dry I suspect this is the cause for all the pump failures. I've also never cleaned my sensors and they've worked perfectly.

One of my pumps runs dry at least once a week. I don't know why I haven't killed it yet, it is tough! :lol:

[ponokareefer]

I've got 2 tunze top off's. Lately, my power connector that plugs into the controller doesn't always connect. I looked inside and see there is a build up of salt/corrosion. Has anyone had this issue with Tunze and fixed it? I'm worried one day it won't power-up and stop filling up my tank. I'm not sure what to use to clean it up and how to actually get to it to clean it up.

[lastlight]

just unscrew the back if i recall correctly that exposes everything...

[Skimmerking]

Dude all I ever did was a line straight from my rodi line straight to the float switch and it's. Never failed on me since 2002 all these top off gadgets waste of money

[Myka]

Dude all I ever did was a line straight from my rodi line straight to the float switch

You have some horseshoes up your butt. I've seen systems like this fail quite a few times...a friend did this and lost his whole 300 gallon system. A top off is something I personally absolutely will never cheap out on, and I cheap out on a lot of stuff.

[ponokareefer]

just unscrew the back if i recall correctly that exposes everything...

What did you use to clean it?

And sorry if it appears that I am derailing the thread. I thought about starting a new one, but since most people are raving about Tunze's, I thought I'd point out that I am having issues with mine. It may just be a quick fix though. Up to this issue, both of mine have worked flawlessly.

[globaldesigns]

Tunze all the way... I just replaced the pump on mine, as it was about 5 years old and finally gave out. But the replacement was only $30. Great and reliable.

[lastlight]

What did you use to clean it?

Yeah don't want to derail but I think the consensus here has been reached and we all know Mike is one hell of a lucky SOB =)

Basically my unit was new and when I filled my tank up I accidentally submerged the entire control unit! So I unscrewed it and 'washed' it in a bucket of ro/di and allowed to dry. That's the only reason I opened mine up I've never had any other issues.

[Lampshade]

The main reason float's fail on people is because of salt or algae build up on the seal. They only use the weight of the hanging float to seal, so it doesn't take much. Make sure it's somewhere that never see's splash, or always see's splash and gets flushed, and everything should be fine.

[The Grizz]

ELOS!!!!

[lastlight]

Greg I appreciate what you're saying but a consensus was reached man =)

[RGS88]

I'm also leaning heavily towards Tunze ATO, but out of curiosity, has anyone seen or used the "Storm" ATO system from Genesis Reef Systems? It looks like a nicely equipped unit for about the same price as the Tunze. The "Renew" auto-water-change system also looks pretty cool.

[The Grizz]

Greg I appreciate what you're saying but a consensus was reached man =)

Damn it anyway, no one listens to me any more :sad:

I did not realize that you can get a Tunze complete with a pump, when I first look at them some time ago I didn't see a pump with them.

[lastlight]

I'm also leaning heavily towards Tunze ATO, but out of curiosity, has anyone seen or used the "Storm" ATO system from Genesis Reef Systems? It looks like a nicely equipped unit for about the same price as the Tunze. The "Renew" auto-water-change system also looks pretty cool.

Scroll up =) Post #10...

[Reef Pilot]

I just use a simple 2 float system from my rodi. If the first one would fail for any reason, the 2nd one would stop the flow 1/2 inch higher. Seems pretty fool proof to me.

[globaldesigns]

Was Greg here? Just wondering as I thought I heard him.... HEHE :biggrin:

Another thing to note, is that I have my water line for the Tunze setup so it is actually pouring the water over the IR sensor and float switch... I have never had to clean either in all the years I have had this, they stay clean because of this. FYI...

[Reefer Rob]

I'm with the keep it simple group: gravity feed to a mechanical float switch. Too many gadgets, pumps and switches keeps me awake at night.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who actually had this system fail... and why.

[Aquattro]

I'm with the keep it simple group: gravity feed to a mechanical float switch. Too many gadgets, pumps and switches keeps me awake at night.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who actually had this system fail... and why.


It failed once on me due to a leaky float valve. It filled with water and would no longer float, luckily I figured it out before anything bad happened.
Now I use floats and switches, plumbed directly into my RO.

[Reefer Rob]

Any idea what caused the float to fill with water?

[Aquattro]

Any idea what caused the float to fill with water?

The seam separated slightly. It was quite old (Kent), but I drained it and applied silicone around the seam and used it for a few more years.
I did notice potential failures when I topped off with kalk, I would get large Ca deposits around the input, but easy enough to clean.

[mike31154]

Variation on the gravity feed that's worked flawlessly for me for better than two years. No sump, impractical for me to elevate top off container above display, so I do need to cheat a little to help gravity along.

Uses air pump on a timer, 7 gal glass wine carboy pressurized by air pump, some rigid & flexible tubing, stopper with two holes, mechanical house humidifier float valve on a DIY acrylic bracket. Takes a bit of tuning to get the timing for the air pump so that it keeps the car boy sufficiently pressurized as it slowly empties, but once done, no further adjustment required. In my case, the water level in the display needs to have a close tolerance otherwise the overflow box housing the pump feeding my HOB skimmer will cavitate. This system has been rock solid in keeping water level constant with a slow trickle. Folks with a sump will be able to get away with a bit more variation with regard to water level without any disastrous consequences.

Occasionally I'll throw some calcium, epsom salts or baked baking soda in the top off if I find any of the pertinent parameters are getting a little too far out of the ballpark. I will use gravity fed once I get a new setup with basement sump. The fewer components you use, the less can go wrong. You can throw all the money you wish at backups & failsafes, but every component you add will also add the possibility of another thing that can go wrong. I'll take a guess and say that I may have spent 50 bucks on all the components. Several I already had kicking around & I don't have to go back to a specific manufacturer to replace any one of them.

I've posted these photos of my ATO setup a number of times now, some of you are probably getting sick up & fed of seeing them, but for the benefit of those that haven't....

Glass wine carboy, 7 gal, give or take. Sits on a stand next to display & keeps it topped up for 7 days. Short tube is air in, long one water out to mechanical float valve. The timer kicks in for a few minutes every hour to keep the carboy pressurized. Even if there's a power failure, there will still be residual air pressure to continue topping off for some time if required.

https://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pdTBNxNGXN4ichJYN7QEJmzgE1RmHeDKv0AXRaXrpjgpN-raAsCGR0Aq5621fEYnxF5NP3ECdBFU/Carboy.JPG?psid=1

Mechanical float valve. Not a sealed unit, but open chambers at bottom that trap air to lift it, so will not ever get water logged. It has a wheel on the top that allows for additional water level adjustment. I've recently shortened it by cutting one chamber off the end for a smaller in tank footprint. Still works like a charm. Very slow trickle into the display due to relatively low air pressure provided by the small air pump. You'd really have to be out to lunch for a few days for this to screw up & either over fill or not fill. It has never clogged even though I've mixed kalk, alk & mag into the carboy top off water.

https://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pGNONVx5kJLM8zKaRZ27NwsbGYa2ziq5AXKPAtrKuuvXYKJp RXT91eqsXPQwsHmsiOXiz79UASUA/FloatValve.JPG?psid=1

[frizzo1983]

I'm also leaning heavily towards Tunze ATO, but out of curiosity, has anyone seen or used the "Storm" ATO system from Genesis Reef Systems? It looks like a nicely equipped unit for about the same price as the Tunze. The "Renew" auto-water-change system also looks pretty cool.

If you read on page one I use this system and it is the only system that will ever be setup on any tank I own.

[Skimmerking]

It failed once on me due to a leaky float valve. It filled with water and would no longer float, luckily I figured it out before anything bad happened.
Now I use floats and switches, plumbed directly into my RO.
see mindy another smart one plumbing it straight to your RO line is so much eaier and safer. IMo and IME the float valve cant fail its full of air.:wink:

[fishytime]

ATO to RO is a disaster waiting to happen.....never plumb an ATO to an unending water source, or a reservoir big enough to cause a drastic salinity swing......RO membranes function best when they have water running through them for more than just a few seconds.....short run times, like when you have it plumbed to an ATO will shorten the lifespan on the membrane....

[Hustler]

Ok went with the tunez lol....
i have wayyyyy too many things to worry about right now with this setup..... peace of mind isnt cheap... but Ill take it anyways

[Hustler]

Now I have to try and find a good reservoire that isnt too ugly LOL.... Or a way to get it set up in another room and run to the tank?
anyone have a large capacity thinner and taller kind of setup?
Also do you have a powerhead in there too to prevent stagnent water?
It looks like im loosing about 4 gallons a day.......... So it will have to hold a fair bit.

[Aquattro]

see mindy another smart one plumbing it straight to your RO line is so much eaier and safer. IMo and IME the float valve cant fail its full of air.:wink:

But I have horseshoes as well :razz:

[Aquattro]

ATO to RO is a disaster waiting to happen..

Probably. but I've got mine running through a solenoid that is only open enough in 24 hours to compensate for evaporation. So for a disaster, I'd need the float, shutoff valve and solenoid to all fail. Could happen I suppose, but so far I'm happy.

[Skimmerking]

ATO to RO is a disaster waiting to happen.....never plumb an ATO to an unending water source, or a reservoir big enough to cause a drastic salinity swing......RO membranes function best when they have water running through them for more than just a few seconds.....short run times, like when you have it plumbed to an ATO will shorten the lifespan on the membrane....
Agree with ya there Doug on the life span. but my water is 980 coming out so i might as well have some happiness withthe RO DI line

as for the RO line running the Kalk reactor when the water goes in it only goes in at the speed as the small union is screw into so If I want 3 drips per second coming out. Then 3 drips per second will only go in.

[martinmcnally]

I used to have a Tunze. Pump would burn out every few months to the point where I was buying 3 at a time. Then the unit died one day :(

Ordered a kit from this guy: http://autotopoff.com/

I got the solenoid version so I have it plumbed directly into my filter. Never had a problem or hickup since. That was about a 2 years ago now.

[Douglas]

I use this system, with an aqua lifter, in my tank/sump. it hasn't failed me yet. Just another option. And is cheaper.

http://www.aquariumsupplies.ca/tsunami-auto-system-p-840.html

[mark]

go the mechanical float valve (for furnace humidifier from HD, $12) connected directly to RO/DI. 6 years, zero problems, can't say I notice TDS creep, only second membrane since started (and believe probably changed out first when didn't have to), simple.

Yes there's a risk but the valve is continuously being flushed with fresh water and really this is the same valve used on furnaces. Figure there's a whole bunch more furnaces than fish tanks and can't ever say I've heard of someone flooding their basement because the humidifier screwed up.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h316/das75/float.jpg

[lastlight]

Just got my osmolator back online last night topping up the new tank. Dumping several gallons by hand everyday wasn't difficult but man I love the convenience of my Tunze! The pump is going to be on much longer each time so I'll have to see what that means in terms of its lifespan.

the valve is continuously being flushed with fresh water

Not to mention the furnace version would be flushed with regular water so there could be buildups. I still am not a fan of this method though.

[pscott99]

Mark how did you mount the HD float. I am looking at that today also. As long as you don't have too large of a supply bucket this will work fine for my tank. I do have one on my furnace. If I was running a 30gal bucket I wouldn't take the chance. I am actually using a simple gravity feed with a loop tied in the pvc and even that works fine. The float will give a little better control.

[TimT]

I use a Little Giant livestock waterer with an acrylic rod mod and nylon bolts/nuts to attach it. Plumbed via a 1/4" shut off valve(to reduce flow) to my 75gpd ro membrane with auto shut off valve. 0 failures in 12 years. 3 membranes in 12 years too.

If you can't do it that way then I would recommend the Tunze. I stay away from American labeled off shore crap whenever possible.

[mike31154]

Plumbing ATO directly to RODI system probably works fine if your tap TDS is 10 or less like many folks on the west coast are fortunate to have. No way I'm doing that, not only because I don't trust direct hookup even if there hasn't been a flood, but also because my tap TDS is 210 or more. It only takes one flood to ruin your day, or crash your tank. Might as well use treated tap water like I did for the first year my system was set up. I was never any good at horsehoes and with my relatively high source TDS, it takes the membrane a while to get that down to an acceptable level.

As mentioned, my tap TDS is 210+ & I've observed my dual TDS meter showing around 180 TDS after RO when I initially turn the system on. It then takes a good minute or more (depending on time of year) to get down to a TDS of 2. After a few more minutes it finally gets to 1 TDS. I usually check again after about 15 minutes and during the colder months, the output of my 75 gpd membrane is then down to 0. All this tells me that if I want my DI media to last longer, I'm better off making my DI water in large batches. The first few gallons I produce are always diverted as RO only for drinking, cooking, coffee etc. If I were to run my ATO directly off the RODI, with short bursts of water produced governed by my top off, I'm pretty sure I'd be going through DI media like there's no tomorrow. I'm on a fixed income and can find better ways to spend my $$s.

[lastlight]

my tap TDS is 210+ & I've observed my dual TDS meter showing around 180 TDS after RO when I initially turn the system on. It then takes a good minute or more (depending on time of year) to get down to a TDS of 2.

This is it exactly. I can get down to 0 for a short time if the membrane is new, 1 for quite some time and then anywhere from 2 - 10 in the first hour or so. If it runs all day it will very slowly go back to sub 5.

TDS for me stays far too high in the first minute. I can't afford to blast through resin like that. Once it's low... it won't creep all the way up to 200 if it runs frequently enough but you never know.

My thing with plumbing direct into ro/di has much more to do with costs of resin than it does with flood fears.

[fishytime]

this blows me away.....we all spend X amount on a tank, X amount on lights, X amount on a skimmer, hundreds if not thousands on livestock and then cheap out on something as critical as the stability of the salinity and the safety of the tank.........amazing:neutral::razz:


Ive been through a couple of the osmolator pumps as well......but in fairness to the pumps, I have been guilty of letting them run dry a time or two:redface:

[intarsiabox]

this blows me away.....we all spend X amount on a tank, X amount on lights, X amount on a skimmer, hundreds if not thousands on livestock and then cheap out on something as critical as the stability of the salinity and the safety of the tank.........amazing:neutral::razz:


Just because something costs more doesn't make it more reliable than other proven methods.

[fishytime]

proven to what?......fail more often then a tunze?....I may be wrong but I have never read or heard of any tunze ever flooding a persons tank......Ive heard of pumps dieing and head units dieing, but I have never heard of one killing someones tank ..... anything mechanical if given enough time will fail.........especially in a humid salty environment

[intarsiabox]

proven to what?......fail more often then a tunze?....I may be wrong but I have never read or heard of any tunze ever flooding a persons tank......Ive heard of pumps dieing and head units dieing, but I have never heard of one killing someones tank ..... anything mechanical if given enough time will fail.........especially in a humid salty environment

Yes anything mechanical or electrical can fail, and Tunze has both. Lots of people on this forum and many others that don't use Tunze and have never had problems either. Tunze makes a good product but so do many other companies which also have a second level failsafe. Tunze pumps constantly dieing seems to be very common on any forum you go to and it's kind of hard for an ATO unit to keep your reef stable and safe when it's not working. Tunze would be a much better product if you could add your own reliable pump instead.

[BlueTang<3]

Yes anything mechanical or electrical can fail, and Tunze has both. Lots of people on this forum and many others that don't use Tunze and have never had problems either. Tunze makes a good product but so do many other companies which also have a second level failsafe. Tunze pumps constantly dieing seems to be very common on any forum you go to and it's kind of hard for an ATO unit to keep your reef stable and safe when it's not working. Tunze would be a much better product if you could add your own reliable pump instead.

I have used tunze for 3 years now with out a hitch, still on the original pump. They actually make a relay so you can run almost any pump you want off the tunze controller.

[intarsiabox]

I have used tunze for 3 years now with out a hitch, still on the original pump. They actually make a relay so you can run almost any pump you want off the tunze controller.

Any idea what the part number is for the relay, Wes? I have been considering getting a Tunze ATO myself as I think they are a great product. I just don't like people chirping that there is only one product that anyone should use and implying that you'd be an idiot for getting anything else.

[Madreefer]

This is it exactly. I can get down to 0 for a short time if the membrane is new, 1 for quite some time and then anywhere from 2 - 10 in the first hour or so. If it runs all day it will very slowly go back to sub 5.

TDS for me stays far too high in the first minute. I can't afford to blast through resin like that. Once it's low... it won't creep all the way up to 200 if it runs frequently enough but you never know.

My thing with plumbing direct into ro/di has much more to do with costs of resin than it does with flood fears.

My TDS is at 0ppm when finished making water, when resevoir is full it climbs up to 50ppm over a 8-10hr period while it is no longer filtering water. TDS probe is between DI cannister and auto shut off valve to resevoir. Is that what your talking about? To add to this thread i use a JBJ ATO with no problems in 3 years.

[BlueTang<3]

This is the tunze relay, don't think it will work for us looking at the plug. If i wasn't so lazy I could find the pages i had found earlier about guys diy a relay in to run a maxi jet.

http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/tz-osmsr/Tunze+Universal+Osmolator+Relay+Switch+-+3150.110.html

[lastlight]

they just show the euro plug. j&l wouldn't sell you that =)

i was worried my evap rate would exceed what the tunze pump can do but so far it's working like a champ. never let one run dry and never had one fail (as a result i think).

I don't care what topoff you run so long as it's a tunze! <- if henry ford was a reefer...

[intarsiabox]

This is the tunze relay, don't think it will work for us looking at the plug. If i wasn't so lazy I could find the pages i had found earlier about guys diy a relay in to run a maxi jet.

http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/tz-osmsr/Tunze+Universal+Osmolator+Relay+Switch+-+3150.110.html

It might work with a North American to European plug adaptor. Don't know, I'll have to research into it. I wouldn't need it until the Tunze pump died but maybe I'll get a good one that lasts forever like yours and not have to worry about it. (Hope I didn't jinx you!)

[fishytime]

I just don't like people chirping that there is only one product that anyone should use and implying that you'd be an idiot for getting anything else.

The OP asked "which is the best ATO?"......I answered Tunze as did a whack of other people.......he didnt ask for a bunch of cheap DIY ATO setups.....if he wanted that he probably would have asked how he could "Jerry rig" something together.....IMO everyone else is chirping:wink:

[intarsiabox]

they just show the euro plug. j&l wouldn't sell you that =)

i was worried my evap rate would exceed what the tunze pump can do but so far it's working like a champ. never let one run dry and never had one fail (as a result i think).

I don't care what topoff you run so long as it's a tunze! <- if henry ford was a reefer...

Do they come in any color or just black?

[BlueTang<3]

Even if it does die there like 20 bucks for a new one and if we can get another few years out of that were laughing.

[fishytime]

oops didnt realize this was in the DIY section:redface:.......the title is misleading with "system" in it.....anyway tunze is still the best ATO "system":mrgreen:

[intarsiabox]

oops didnt realize this was in the DIY section:redface:.......the title is misleading with "system" in it.....anyway tunze is still the best ATO "system":mrgreen:

After my wife lets me get the "It's only going to cost $50" Tunze ATO system, we'll see if it's really the "best" because I have no luck.

[Hustler]

Bought it... Picked it up.... Still waiting to set it up.... But the stuff it comes with is worth its price alone.....
It better be LOL
now i have to jerry rig a res and see if i cant get an ATO to fill the ATO lol....

The OP asked "which is the best ATO?"......I answered Tunze as did a whack of other people.......he didnt ask for a bunch of cheap DIY ATO setups.....if he wanted that he probably would have asked how he could "Jerry rig" something together.....IMO everyone else is chirping:wink:

[BlueTang<3]

Bought it... Picked it up.... Still waiting to set it up.... But the stuff it comes with is worth its price alone.....
It better be LOL
now i have to jerry rig a res and see if i cant get an ATO to fill the ATO lol....

I use a float valve from my ro unit to fill my ato reservoir.