vortech or tunze

[bignose]

Yeah I know another comparison thread But I don't know anything about either. I'm looking to buy a controllable pump either a mp40wes or a Tunze Stream 6105 Pump Kit. I'm currently running 2 Koralia 4's so either would be an impressive upgrade. I still plan on running 1 K4 because I can't afford 2 controllable pumps. It's going in a 90G sps dominated reef.

I did some research about both and found:

Tunze 6105 with 7091 controller:
rock solid quality
quiet
cheaper
no wireless link

ecotech mp40 wes:
smaller in tank
expensive
noisy
wireless link

Any advice is appreciated, I'm having a hard time choosing.

[sphelps]

I like Tunze for the reasons listed and because they can be pointed in various directions. IMO vortechs save little room inside the tank while taking a lot more space outside the tank, it depends how your tank is setup but in all my cases tunze gives a cleaner look. Also not sure about vortech but Tunze warranty is amazing.

[MarkoD]

i have an MP40 in my tank and its not noisy at all.

i cant even hear it over the noise of my return pump and skimmer (which are pretty quiet in an enclosed stand)

the vortech pumps are not focused flow. the stream that comes out of them is really wide. Plus they create undertow.

in my tank i run 4 controllable koralia 4s and 1 MP40. so i have no idea what the tunze offers

[Raf]

they are both good but if ya want to make more of a wave on larger tanks you really need two vortechs....hence a pricey option. Plus, with the vortech you can't adjust direction of flow....so my vote would be for the tunze even though i run both...

[knickle22]

I like the vortechs also, I have 2 mp10's . The wireless link is pretty cool, very quiet in tank (my return-pump is in the basement and i can still here its hum over the mp10s )

[BlueTang<3]

I have 6 vortechs and i think there great product.

[bignose]

Wes I seen your tank with the mp40s before you got the 60's and I was impressed.

I've listened to the vortechs and they do make some noise.

[BlueTang<3]

Wes I seen your tank with the mp40s before you got the 60's and I was impressed.

I've listened to the vortechs and they do make some noise.

They are defiantly noticeable, loudest part of my tank, I actually switched back to the 40's. To me there is not much of a difference between a tunze or a korallia.

[claymax]

the fact that you can keep wires out of your tank with the vortechs weighs really huge for me. i cant stand having something in there just dangling around

[viperfish]

Having owned both I would have to say with 100% certainty, I prefer Tunze. They make for a cleaner look, can be pointed in any direction allowing for more options when aquascaping, are dead silent, they can do a wave every bit as good as a Vortech, are more controllable, and you can't beat the quality.

[bignose]

Which pump has a wider flow?

[MarkoD]

vortech has wider flow. and it creates a major under tow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyZJR5Xs4eU

[viperfish]

The 6105 now has the wide flow option which makes it closer to a Vortech flow pattern.

[asylumdown]

It all comes down to what you are looking for specifically. For some people's applications vortech's are better, for some people, tunze will be better. My tank's going to have enclosed sides that will hide the external pump of a vortech, so for me, the low in tank profile works. You either have to have a big obnoxious cord in your tank or out of your tank - which is 'better' is up to you.

Yes, they make some noise, but it depends on what your noise threshold is. Like others here have said, my return pumps, skimmer, and the fan for my old MHs were way louder than the vortech's, so I don't know why the noise a vortech makes would be too much of a mark against it. I only ever heard my MP40's when I was sitting a few feet away as they were ramping up to full strength on reef crest mode, and even then I only noticed it for a second. To be honest I kind of liked hearing it - it wasn't an obnoxious sound and it let me know they were working for the money ;)

They also don't transfer much by ways of heat to your water, which if you run halides can help.

never owned a tunze, but I hate, hate, hated the look of koralias in my tank when I had them, and they seem similar to me. Again, that's just a personal aesthetic thing.

So really, it just comes down to personal preference. They both move a vast volume of water around and are versatile in their controllability. The rest is just taste.

[lastlight]

I came really close to going with vortechs but didn't for a few reasons:

- I'm quite noise-sensitive. The larger Tunze are silent either but they are a lot more silent.

- Versatility. I don't think I can lose the ability to aim. I might change my rockwork down the road or the coral landscape will most certainly dictate that I change things up. Sometime just sliding a powerhead around or switching which pane it's on is not enough

- Long-term reliability. It's much more likely that a vortech will need a part serviced or replaced. Tunze powerheads seem to last forever.

And regarding the Tunze/Koralia looks thing... personally it's no contest there. Koralias I find to be pretty ugly. I like the looks of both the Stream and Stream 2s.

And cords... I mount all mine fairly high up or manage to have the cords behind rocks. Never really bothered me.

[doch]

I have both... Tunze for sure.

[Coleus]

You can't go wrong with either them. They are good products. You have to consider flow, design, and style and go with the one you suit you better. I have both and there are both pros and cons.

For noise, i would pick tunze
For flow and aiming, i would pick tunze
For space and wire hanging and cleaning powerhead, i would pick vortech
For control, i would pick vortech

[globaldesigns]

About people saying Tunze's can be pointed and Vortech's can't, this is true, however I run 2 MP40's and they are able to create the undertows and currents required that lift the garbage from the bottom, behind rockwork, etc. So in my opinion, they don't need to be pointable.

For the noise, they make a slight noise in the pulse modes, this is the ramping up and down of the motor. Is it loud, I would say NO, but it is there. In Reefcrest or Lagoon mode, they are virtually silent for me.

My vote is for the Vortech's, they just have so much more power and capabilities over any other brand.

Edit: I have also used pointable wave devices (Koralia's #4 with wavemaker) and have recently removed to let the Vortech's do all the work, and can say much much better. Didn't need any pointable powerhead in my tank.

[Parker]

I run a closed loop so my opinion in this discussion is useless. However, if I had to choose one over the other I would probably go with the Vortech, and mostly for aesthetic reasons. In one of my smaller tanks I ran Maxi-Mods and I just couldn’t get used to look of them in the tank and the Tunze are even larger.

[Sunee]

I have had both and prefer the Tunze. I ran my MP40 in lagoon mode at 70% and the whine of the ramping to the higher speeds really annoyed hubby and me (aquarium in the living room).

I notice a difference in the flow too, the MP40 did not move the sand around but I am currently getting drifts with the Tunze (the max is set at 60%, random flow, sinus wave). I will have to work on the positioning and the Profilux program as I don't like having to unbury my rics and zoas.

[bignose]

Wow lots of input thanks everyone.

Seems like the vortech would work perfect for me, I'm having problems with dead spots and funny enough it's directly below my powerhead.

edit. do the vortech and tunze have dead spots under the powerhead?

[Funky_Fish14]

I have 2 MP10wES... 1 is set to reef crest(at 100%) and 1 is in lagoon mode(at 80%)... Opposite ends of the tank. There are no dead spots below or around the powerheads (water flows fully all around the front 3/4 of the tank).

The newer one is fairly silent... yes I can hear it but its not bad. The older one (6 months?) is about 4 times as loud at the same settings as the new one. I dont know why, and plan to speak to the retailer or ecotech about it. I understand ecotech customer service is very good though.

Cheers,

Chris

[globaldesigns]

I have 2 MP10wES... 1 is set to reef crest(at 100%) and 1 is in lagoon mode(at 80%)... Opposite ends of the tank. There are no dead spots below or around the powerheads (water flows fully all around the front 3/4 of the tank).

The newer one is fairly silent... yes I can hear it but its not bad. The older one (6 months?) is about 4 times as loud at the same settings as the new one. I dont know why, and plan to speak to the retailer or ecotech about it. I understand ecotech customer service is very good though.

Cheers,

Chris

I always used mine in sync or ant-sync to each other, but they were linked on the same setting. HMMMMM.... I have just changed mine to what you have to see how it works. They have always created great currents and undertows, but maybe doing your way has more caos, and therefore even better undertows, etc.

Thanks for posting.

Also, I do believe you need to talk to Mike @ Aqua Digital.... And yes, the service is great!

[ponokareefer]

As a Koralia fan, I'd go with Tunze. My Koralia's have flow directly under then, so I would think Tunze's would as well. I had considered a Vortech for my RSM130, but after hearing a couple in stores, I went with another Koralia. Just way too loud. I like my tanks as quiet as possible. I had considered changing my Koralia's to Tunze's, but the price was just too high. Plus, I have 2 of my Koralia's on a wavemaker, and it works great.

[Funky_Fish14]

I always used mine in sync or ant-sync to each other, but they were linked on the same setting. HMMMMM.... I have just changed mine to what you have to see how it works. They have always created great currents and undertows, but maybe doing your way has more caos, and therefore even better undertows, etc.

Thanks for posting.

Also, I do believe you need to talk to Mike @ Aqua Digital.... And yes, the service is great!


I like the effect from having them in different modes. I actually dont know which is reef crest and which is lagoon. The one with the second pair of lights on (lights 3 and 4 inward from the left) is at 100%, and the one with the first two lights is at 80%. This one ramps up and down more frequently (within a minute), while the other takes a couple minutes. It seems to bounce most often between 100% and down to 55-60% at the lowest... I like that the flow is different at any one time, like you said, more chaos. Its never too rough though.

I dont really like the stress from the Ecosmart Nutrient transport mode or pulse modes. Its a hard kick each time, I feel like it would wear out the pump too quickly. Let us know what you think of the opposing flow types!

Yeah, I'll talk to the retailer and see what they say, then speak to Michael if it needs to go further.

[Madreefer]

I dont really like the stress from the Ecosmart Nutrient transport mode or pulse modes.

Really? This is my favourite setting. With a half circle tank it makes a really nice wave in my tank. I really wanted to get the Tunze when I was in the market for a wavemaker. Nobody could answer me on how it would work in an odd shaped tank so I emailed Tunze asking how it would work. I was really impressed with their honesty when they suggested that I not buy their product as it may not work with the shape of my tank. So those with an odd shaped tank migh want to consider the Vortechs.

[bignose]

would one vortech work for a 48" tank?

[mike31154]

would one vortech work for a 48" tank?

Sure one will work, but as you mention in your first post, you'll need to continue running at least one of your Koralias on a tank your size.

My used 77 gal, 4 foot tank came with some real tiny AquaClear powerheads. I was a total noob & had no clue until after I set it up & started researching. Added a couple of larger AquaClears pretty quick, but it wasn't until I purchased my first MP40W that the tank really got the flow it needed. Just had a few fish, a BTA & no corals to speak of, but the strong flow of the single VorTech really started to clean things up. Water quality improved because of it.

I had purchased it just before they came out with the new wet side magnets that didn't rust after 6 months like the originals. Was a pretty cheap retrofit though and that's one of the things I've found pretty good about EcoTech's design. It's relatively easy to retrofit, repair & update your pump as improvements come along. Sure they didn't get the original magnet design down the first time, but the fix came & it was inexpensive to implement. Same idea with the pump drivers, you can update the driver to add functionality to an older model without having to buy the complete package all over again. Folks with MP20s could even update the pump to 40 with a power supply & driver.

A year after buying the new one, I snagged a used one for sale on one of the US forums. I couldn't afford two at once either, so bided my time before getting the second. I've upgraded the drivers for both to the ES versions and now run the two in the EcoSmart TSM (Tidal Swell Mode). Found this mode provided the most chaotic, random type conditions in my tank. In this mode, the pumps hardly ever run at the same speed at the same time, so the flow in the tank is constantly changing. I don't find it as annoying as the NTM (Nutrient Transport Mode) mentioned in a previous post. I do however, occassionally switch to the NTM to clear up the rockwork & sandbed. All it takes is one push of the mode button to switch back & forth between TSM & NTM.

I've never owned a Tunze, so can't really contribute much in that regard. Doubt that I will ever switch though, the VTs are working great for me & I'm not a fan of any kind of electrical cord in the water. I'd even lose my heater & another small powerhead used to feed my HOB skimmer, but haven't figured out how to do that. I like to keep the cords above the surface though. I cringe when I see folks fully submerge a heater, cord & all in their water.

Keep your eyes peeled on the for sale forums, there are currently a number of MP40Ws for sale so you could save a buck or two. Probably the odd Tunze as well. Either way, I'm pretty sure after you get one, you'll soon be looking for a second, especially if it's a VorTech. The ability of the wireless drivers to communicate & control the pumps definitely takes your flow options to a whole new level.

[MarkoD]

If you want a brand new mp40es, I'm still selling mine. If not, it's going in my tank :)

[Ryan]

About people saying Tunze's can be pointed and Vortech's can't, this is true, however I run 2 MP40's and they are able to create the undertows and currents required that lift the garbage from the bottom, behind rockwork, etc. So in my opinion, they don't need to be pointable.

For the noise, they make a slight noise in the pulse modes, this is the ramping up and down of the motor. Is it loud, I would say NO, but it is there. In Reefcrest or Lagoon mode, they are virtually silent for me.

My vote is for the Vortech's, they just have so much more power and capabilities over any other brand.

Edit: I have also used pointable wave devices (Koralia's #4 with wavemaker) and have recently removed to let the Vortech's do all the work, and can say much much better. Didn't need any pointable powerhead in my tank.


Id have to agree here. Alot of people dont remember the flow from a vortech isnt only about the stream it puts out but also the huge undertow the pump creates. I was running a MJ900 with SF kit & a K3 on my 4 foot tank since the beginning. A week ago I picked up 2 MP10w ES pumps, at first I put them on short pulse and was amazed to see even the polyps on my mille blocked by my internal overflow moving. I also had my frogspawn deep inside of a cove well out of the stream and its tentacles were pulsing back and forth as well. Once I set it to the Nutrient Export my jaw dropped with what was being pulled out of the rocks, so much so I had to change my filter sock the next day.

Also the none wireless complaint for the tunzes is a bad one. Being able to run up to 8 pumps on the 7095 controller means you dont need to sync 8 of the single controllers together.

Ive always thought of it like this, for moving water in shorter distances the Vortechs are tough to beat. But if you need to push water a long ways, such as if you have a peninsula style tank, a Tunze is going to be a better pump for this application.

PS. It wouldnt hurt to run a MP40 and when you can afford it look at a 6055 or 6105.

[bignose]

I have about a month to wait until I can buy a pump. I have a friend who might lend me a mp40 just to try out. I like the tunze 7095 controller but I've never seen one in person though. I would only ever want 2 pumps for my tank.

[bignose]

I got my hands on 2 mp40 pumps to try out. First impression was the look of the pumps they are very nice. I quickly looked through the manual 40 some pages. This pump has some nice running modes. I got them running I could hear them especially when I turned them up, they are really noisy in pulse mode. I can't run them at max speed anyways because it disturbs my sand. I turned them down and they are not so loud but definitely noticeable. I'm currently using reef crest mode.

[The Codfather]

Jason,
maybe try two mp10w es? you have the 40's dialled back, maybe two 10's would be enough? Just a thought, I know where you can get two 10's to try, you saw how quickly they made a wave in the 90. LMK

[bignose]

They are running little above about 80% (10th led)power. I'm really surprised how wide the flow is on these pumps. I'm going to do some research on the mp10's never even thought about them before.

[MarkoD]

watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWUSIt9yu_A&feature=feedlik

[mike31154]

I run my MP40W ES pair at about 80 to 85% as well (4 foot 77 gal), in TSM as mentioned earlier. Find this a good compromise between the right amount of flow, flow patterns & sound from the pumps. I've never seen an MP10 in action but I would think on a tank your size they will need to be set to 100% for best results. No idea how much noise an MP10 makes compared to a 40, but personally, I'd rather have 40s turned down a little than 10s running at max. If you can get your hands on a couple of MP10s to try, that's great, 'cause in the end that's the best way to see what works for you.

That's a great video there Marko, really condenses the capability of the MP10s, wireless, battery backup & flow modes.

[MarkoD]

I honestly don't understand the issues people have with the noise. I have an old non es mp40 at 100% and I can't hear it standing in front of the tank

[bignose]

I can hear these pumps over anything in my room at 100%. It's the loudest thing on my tank, if people can't hear it they need hearing aids. I'm kidding. Anyways if it came down to the decision it wouldn't be the noise. Although they can be noisy I'm starting the like the features, I've gotten used to my overflow so I can put up with some humming sounds..

[MarkoD]

I can hear these pumps over anything in my room at 100%. It's the loudest thing on my tank, if people can't hear it they need hearing aids. I'm kidding. Anyways if it came down to the decision it wouldn't be the noise. Although they can be noisy I'm starting the like the features, I've gotten used to my overflow so I can put up with some humming sounds..

i just installed another MP40. and it took me about 20 min to get the alignment right, but its i can barely hear it at full power pulsing

[mike31154]

I find the noise or sound of a VorTech actually varies from one to another. I always put my ear to the glass when aligning them to ensure I get the quietest result possible, yet one of my pumps is somewhat louder than the other. I've also read that if you don't choose the right spacer setting, this can cause the pump to run louder. In any case, I don't find the sound that obtrusive and the features outweigh the whirring or humming noise in my case. There are folks that run very silent tanks and the VorTech will not be for them. I take advantage of the night mode not only to reduce the sound in the evening, but more so to save power & wear & tear on the pumps.

[bignose]

Your right these 2 pumps make different noise, one is noisier than the other.

[MarkoD]

Make sure the spacer is on the correct thickness and that they're aligned. They barely make any noise.

And on the spacer, make sure the little nibs go into the holes and don't get bent

[staceyd72]

Not sure if you have made a decision yet. Here is a link on a comparison of measured flow output for propeller pumps.

I have both a MP40 and a Tunze 6305(x2) and prefer the Tunze because of their maneuverability.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/7/aafeature

Note the experiment was sponsored in part by Ecotech.

HTH

Yeah I know another comparison thread But I don't know anything about either. I'm looking to buy a controllable pump either a mp40wes or a Tunze Stream 6105 Pump Kit. I'm currently running 2 Koralia 4's so either would be an impressive upgrade. I still plan on running 1 K4 because I can't afford 2 controllable pumps. It's going in a 90G sps dominated reef.

I did some research about both and found:

Tunze 6105 with 7091 controller:
rock solid quality
quiet
cheaper
no wireless link

ecotech mp40 wes:
smaller in tank
expensive
noisy
wireless link

Any advice is appreciated, I'm having a hard time choosing.

[bignose]

Lots of scientific bla bla bla to me.:lol: Although I did see the charts. I don't think the tunze pump flow rates would be that much lower than the advertised rates, this seems a little biased.

[globaldesigns]

Again, I think a big thing about Vortech is their ability to create the flows and undertows, therefore the ability to point them is irrevelant.

All are good products though, so whatever you choose, I think you will be happy.

[Ryan]

Lots of scientific bla bla bla to me.:lol: Although I did see the charts. I don't think the tunze pump flow rates would be that much lower than the advertised rates, this seems a little biased.

Do a search on reef central and you will see the 6105s were putting out much less than advertised. The problem was an 18v power supply instead of the 24v. Now that the proper ones are out I have seen a couple reviews stating the 6105s can be heard outside the tank.

[Jaws]

How much sand disruption do you think you'd have at the front of a tank if you had a 6 or 7 foot long tank, 36" wide front to back and 30" tall with vortech's running full out at the back of the tank?

[bignose]

How much sand disruption do you think you'd have at the front of a tank if you had a 6 or 7 foot long tank, 36" wide front to back and 30" tall with vortech's running full out at the back of the tank?

I'm running ~85% power across 4' and there is no sand disruption except for directly under the pumps. Some minor changes in the sand but if I had it a 100% there would probably be no sand below the pumps.

[mike31154]

How much sand disruption do you think you'd have at the front of a tank if you had a 6 or 7 foot long tank, 36" wide front to back and 30" tall with vortech's running full out at the back of the tank?

With a 30" tall tank you'll be able to mount the VorTechs higher and there should be minimal sandbed disruption, if any. I think the top of my MP40s are about 3.5 inches from the water surface on a standard 24" inch tall 4 foot long 77 gal tank. I also run them at about 85%. If they were mounted any closer to the surface, they would probably be pulling little air tornados (vorteces) from the surface. You've got an extra 6 inches of height and 3 feet of distance to the other glass, so depending on the depth of your sandbed, you should be ok. The flow pattern of VorTechs broadens quickly as distance from the nozzle increases. Another reason the pointing issue as with other power heads is really a non issue.