Help with water changes, ATO and patience :)

[Hustler]

Ok so i have a 120 gallon water reservoir with my 100gpd 5 stage ro/di unit from aquasafe all rigged up for her first run... It has a check valve that senses when the water hits the in tube but i dont trust it and would like to install a float valve if they make them to stop the unit from pouring over?
Im very happy with how this is set up in my laundry room and will be adding a sink to the mix just to keep the washroom free of random fish stuff :)
Im so used to water on demand that waiting for 100 gallons of ro water is a real pain....I need 150G to leak test my plumbing and get my sump working asap.
Can i use my RO tank to mix and keep backup salt water or should I have a seperate tank for this aswell? I have a heater and powerhead in there now and Ill be pumping water from this to either buckets or my tank direct with a python and a 2500gph pump.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/dragonfish1ca/001-14.jpg
I should run the salt for a minimum of 1 day before i add it to my tank correct? cant just mix it per garbage bin infront of the tank for an hour and test with a refratometer?
Then.... For my auto top off system I hear bad things about trying to direct connect my ro unit to my sump so Ill have to find a decent looking container or tall tank with a pump for the top off, Anyone have any good plans or ideas for this? also what do you guys recomend for a float valve or controller for the top off system? It will go in the return section of my sump and shouldnt have any crawlers on it (i hope). My 300 gallon looses a ton of water each couple days so Ill need something bigger..... or find a better lid.
Any insight into any of this is GREATLY appreciated as Im fresh to the salt hobby and I dont want to start making mistakes now :)

[The Grizz]

When I do water changes all I have done is fill my brute can with water, dump in the amount of salt required, plug in mixing pump & let it mix until there is no sign of salt, check salinity with refractometer if salinity is right in the tank it goes.

A for ATO I would not recommend direct from your RO, find another container around 50 gals and get 2 ATO like an Elos, JBJ or one of the other brands. Run one from your RO tank to your ATO tank and the other from ATO to sump.

[Hustler]

Awesome idea grizz :) I have the line run for the water to my tank throught the roof joists already for my constant auto drip system i used in freshwater and it would be such a waste to rip it out LOL Ill just set it up for filling my tank next to the sump :)
Do you not have that cloudy binding (calcium or whatever) when you add the salt and dont let it simmer outside of the tank?
Are your floats, floats or sensors? Im trying to DIY this without having to buy whole kits as I have tons of pumps and line already I just need the mechanics of it

[Reef Pilot]

A for ATO I would not recommend direct from your RO, find another container around 50 gals and get 2 ATO like an Elos, JBJ or one of the other brands. Run one from your RO tank to your ATO tank and the other from ATO to sump.
Why not direct RO/RI water into the sump with an ATO?

[MarkoD]

Why not direct RO/RI water into the sump with an ATO?

what if ATO fails and you flood your tank with RO water?

[Lampshade]

Also the frequent start stops on the ATO are not always good for it.

I use one of the generic rubbermaid blue bins with a Kent float valve drilled into the top, and a 1/4" hose to another Kent float in my tank. Been going this way for a year now with no issues.

[Reef Pilot]

what if ATO fails and you flood your tank with RO water?
I have a double float on my ATO. If the first one fails for any reason, the 2nd one higher up, will stop the flow entirely.

Is that the only concern? I was wondering if the RO/DI water needed to be aged or something before going directly into the sump, similar to when mixing salt water prior to a water change.

[Aquattro]

I plumb my RO directly to my sump. I use a float valve, with a pressure switch inline. I also run it through a solenoid that only turns on 15 minutes every four hours. My RO unit does about 3.5 gallons in 90 minutes, which is about my evaporation for the day, so I could go a few days at least with a blown float system.
1 year on this system so far.

[mike31154]

Interested in more info about the feed line you put through the roof joists? How is that fed exactly, pump or household water pressure? Are you planning on using that as your ATO feed line to the sump?

My system is much smaller and I use a variation of gravity fed ATO through a simple mechanical float valve. Since I don't have room to elevate the ATO container above my display (yes I run sumpless) to use gravity, I use a glass wine carboy next to the tank that is pressurized by a small air pump on a timer. The air pressure provides ATO water at a trickle to the display thru the mechanical valve. This has worked great for me for a number of years now & the 7 gal carboy keeps the display topped up for 7 days. For a future basement sump I plan to use the gravity feed method with an appropriately sized container elevated above the sump.

I don't trust ATOs that have too much complexity and a pile of electrical components, there are more failure modes which can have disastrous effects on your tank or your home in the form of flooding. I've also never trusted the auto shutoff gizmo on my RODI system which is actually a mechanical device. It's never shut the system off reliably. While the float valve in the collection container works well, the waste water will continue to run & it shouldn't. I always make my RODI water when at home & keep an eye on it. With no drain in my basement floor, it's not worth trusting an auto shutoff & then come home to a flood. This is also one of the reasons to avoid feeding your sump directly from your RODI system. The other is that short duty cycles on the RO membrane are not an efficient way to make pure water. I know it takes a good 5 minutes after starting up my RODI for the TDS out of the membrane to drop to 1 or 0 with an incoming TDS of over 200. If you allow a float in the sump to control RODI production, it will likely run for short bursts every few minutes. The DI stage might take care of the excess TDS from the membrane after each short cycle, but you'll be spending a lot more time & money replacing DI media this way.

For mixing salt water, I use a separate container & allow it to stew with a powerhead for at least a day. A few hours before the water change, I'll throw a heater in there to match display temperature.

[Hustler]

The line in the the joists is just a clear 1/4" line from a filter system run to my tank, My laundryroom pipes put out about 80PSI so i have valves on both ends of everything lol. My laundry room is kiddy korner to my tank so I had to go the whole length of the basement to get it there. I used to run a chlorimine/chlorine block and add water 24/7 on a drip to my tank as its got a bulkhead in the sump that goes right to the main drain in the house. I just use it as a back up now incase something goes more wrong than i though it could :) it will atleast drain and not spill all over the floor.

[lastlight]

If you watch your Tds out if the ro membrane you'll notice on startup there is a large spike before it hits it's stride. This is Tds creep and I use a valve to divert ro water straight down the drain until it subsides then allow it into the di resin. Not doing this and also allowing the unit to turn off and on itself without bleeding this Tds off will exhaust your resin much faster.

[Reef Pilot]

I have a before/after TDS monitor on my RODI system. I have only ever seen 1 or 2 tds (mostly 1) after the RO membrane, and always 0 after the DI filter. My incoming tap water is around 40 - 70. I also have 2 pressure tanks (3.2 g each) after the RO membrane (and before the DI), so that provides some buffering of flow from the membrane. And I have an RO only feed to a faucet on my kitchen sink, so I don't waste DI resin when filling water bottles or whatever.

[Parker]

I plumb my RO directly to my sump. I use a float valve, with a pressure switch inline. I also run it through a solenoid that only turns on 15 minutes every four hours. My RO unit does about 3.5 gallons in 90 minutes, which is about my evaporation for the day, so I could go a few days at least with a blown float system.
1 year on this system so far.


Ditto