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View Full Version : Weigh in with your experiences with biopellets or vodka dosing


ScubaSteve
11-03-2011, 06:07 PM
With my new system up and running now (albeit in sore state after the crash that followed the transfer :cry:) I am wanting to start implementing all of the features that I have always wished were on my tank. One thing I have always wanted to do was carbon dosing of some sort, be it biopellets or vodka dosing.

I typically keep the system heavily stocked with corals (I will be shooting for this again once the tank turns around) and I like to feed on the heavier side as this helps me get some awesome growth out of the corals. However, this has had me doing big weekly water changes for the past two years and I'm tired of it. I'd like to have a system where I can feed a bit on the heavy side without having to worry about water quality as much. I'd love to use a macro refugium and go au natural but this isn't in the cards for me because of space limitations. So, enter carbon dosing...

I'd really like to give this a try. I've done my homework, I know what I'm doing and I've narrowed it down to dosing MB7 and vodka (http://www.rimlessreef.com/1/post/2010/2/-probiotic-reef-keeping-mb7-and-vodka-dosing-instructions-and-tips.html) or swapping my Phosban reactor over to biopellets. I've been reading good and bad things for both (I think the bad comes mostly from people underfeeding) and can't quite decide which route is the best way to go. I've eliminated zeovit for a few reasons but the biggest being cost (I be a poor grad student).

I was wondering if anyone can weigh in with their experience with either method? I'd love to hear your stories!

spawn
11-03-2011, 06:38 PM
IME vodka has worked effectively for me. I followed the directions on this site
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

TimT
11-03-2011, 08:01 PM
Since you said your a "poor grad student" just use the Vodka Sugar Vinegar method minus the vodka. So use 750ml RO water, 3tbsp white sugar and 175ml plain white vinegar. Go slow and gradually increase the dosage. I use this method myself for nitrates and then I use the Foz Down to eliminate the Phosphates.

I will be switching from Rogers white sugar as it is made from GMO Round Up Ready Sugar Beets.

Cheers,
Tim

ScubaSteve
11-04-2011, 07:26 AM
Thanks guys, VSV is sort of the way I have been leaning as I believe in the idea of multiple carbon sources to avoid creating a bacterial monoculture, but I really like the idea of having the biopellets basically run themselves. When the PhD gets busy, maintenance can slide a little somI want to make some things a bit more automated.

Tim, if I used VSV, how much vodka would you add to that recipe you have there? Would I follow the same dozing scheme as vodka or do I have to wing it, go slow and just feel it out (by which I mean test kit)?

Reef Pilot
11-04-2011, 02:22 PM
Well, am still pretty early to have good meaningful results, but am trying the Vertex UF-20 reactor with the Vertex Pro-Bio Pellets. Started a couple months ago, but ramped up very slowly with small additions. Just yesterday, I am now finally up to the maximum recommended bio pellets in my reactor.

For me, it is as much an experiment as anything. I had very high nitrates in my long running, very mature, tank, and wanted to see if I can bring them down, without taking out all my sand and live rock to clean them, and resetting the entire tank. I have a heavy bio load, as I feed my fish about 4 times a day, although small portions.

The nitrates were as high as 100, yes, very high, and are now down to about 40. Amazingly, my corals (no fancy or delicate ones) all seem to be doing well, and fish are active and healthy.

Probably because I ramped up slowly, I did not have any cyano issues or initial tank cloudiness that some others have reported. I did change my skimmer pump, which may have been my big problem all along. It was only pulling about a cup of skimmate a week before, at best. Now I get that everyday, and more, if I don't dial down the water level in my skimmer. I also use MB7 to ensure a good bacterial culture.

So now that I am fully ramped up, will be interesting to see if this will bring my nitrates down all the way or not. I am continuing my feeding as before. My P04, tested (Hanna) last a few days ago, was at .47.

chris121277
11-05-2011, 05:58 AM
:popcorn: just tagging along here

cwatkins
11-05-2011, 06:03 AM
Someone I know actually uses both methods. BioPellets and Vodka dosing.

daniella3d
11-05-2011, 03:25 PM
MOst of the crash I have seen are from people going to fast and creating a bacteria bloom and that endup up killing all the fish usually from lack of oxygen in the tank.

So what ever you do, go very very slowly.

Bblinks
11-05-2011, 04:30 PM
Why don't you give Paul form oceanic corals a call, he has experience on both systems, he is currently running both on his systems.

Parker
11-05-2011, 04:43 PM
I've used both with success, I found the bio pellets the better option for me only from a time investment standpoint. You really can forget about biopellets and let the do their thing.

Bblinks
11-05-2011, 05:36 PM
I've used both with success, I found the bio pellets the better option for me only from a time investment standpoint. You really can forget about biopellets and let the do their thing.

Parker, do you by chance dose any bacteria source? I am adding zeobak so it doesn;t case a monstrain of bacteria. Also when you are running the pellets, do you also use a phosphate absorbing material like rowaphos or do you soley rely on the pellets?

ScubaSteve
11-05-2011, 07:47 PM
Parker, do you by chance dose any bacteria source? I am adding zeobak so it doesn;t case a monstrain of bacteria. Also when you are running the pellets, do you also use a phosphate absorbing material like rowaphos or do you soley rely on the pellets?

Ya, I've been tossing this idea around too. I already dose MB7 too help with the new set up and so I was considering keeping that going with whatever carbon source. I think some of the big reasons why ULNS fail is the development of bacterial monocultures.

I've also been debating having my TLF reactor run rowaphos or GFO forthe phosphates. I know people recommend not doing this so that there are phosphates to support the bacteria, but I don't think, at least from what I've been reading, that the bacteria handles enough of the phosphates.

Parker
11-10-2011, 12:24 PM
Parker, do you by chance dose any bacteria source? I am adding zeobak so it doesn;t case a monstrain of bacteria. Also when you are running the pellets, do you also use a phosphate absorbing material like rowaphos or do you soley rely on the pellets?

For the moment I'm running BP's alone, but I have been considering suplementing them. No phosphate removing material either, last night my No3 was 2.5 and Phos was 0. I feed pretty heavy and I don't rinse the food before dumping it into the tank.

Baldy
11-10-2011, 12:39 PM
I have been using biopellets in my 75g for over 6 months now. I dont have a heavy load either fish or corals, but they have kept nitrates and phosphates undetectable on my test kits. just dont make the bonehead mistake i made about a month ago and replace all the biopellets. from what ive been told you just top them off every so often. i didnt have the cloudy water like some get, but cyano definately took hold.

untamed
11-11-2011, 03:52 AM
I did extensive vodka, sugar and vinegar dosing and never saw any significant change to anything. I ended up at a dose size well over the suggested maximum.

ScubaSteve
11-11-2011, 05:04 AM
I did extensive vodka, sugar and vinegar dosing and never saw any significant change to anything. I ended up at a dose size well over the suggested maximum.

Was your tank relatively "old" at the time you started dosing?

Lampshade
11-11-2011, 05:41 AM
I use biopellets, only one of the vertex bag things in my 150gal tank, so less than half of the recommended amount. Any time I notice that algae is getting abnormally high, I'll add a shot of vodka for me, and then another one for the tank. Seems to keep everything pretty happy so far. No bleaching, lots of sps. My only complaint is that after I vodka dose, the tank gets cyno for a week or 2. Which apparently is because pellets remove nitrate/phosphates at a 16:1 ratio, so when you use vodka and nuke your nitrates, you end up with extra phosphates. Clears up after I stop dosing, so never worry about it too much. And by some, it's very little, only one birdsnest style rock that is impossible to get good flow to. Overall, very happy, seems to be a nice buffer in the tank, I wouldn't rely on it to be a 1 stop fix all your problem magic device, but it certainly helps stabilize my tank. I'm running them in a TLF 550 reactor with a MJ1200 pump and about 12' of hose, so not much turnover at all.

edit: I should add, that i overfeed, change filter socks weekly, and have my skimmer set at an extremely dry skim. I read less than 5ppm nitrates at any given time. I had a HA outbreak awhile ago, thought it was pellets until I found a 3"+ snail dead behind some rocks, took it out and everything balanced out shortly after.

Spiny
11-11-2011, 12:30 PM
I can't exactly vouch for the benefits of vodka as I don't even remember the colors I had before I started dosing, however both my nitrates and phosphates are very low and I have not had a single negative effect from dosing vodka. You can try (ramp up slowly if you do) and if you dont like it you can always stop

Baldy
11-11-2011, 03:42 PM
I use npx bioplastics in a tlf 150 reactor, and I find a mj1200 to not be enough flow even wide open. When I move it to my new sump, I'll be hooking it up to a mag 5

Lampshade
11-11-2011, 03:48 PM
It's not really the mj1200 with not enough flow, if you look at the inlet of the reactor it's a VERY small opening, there's a spot in there where it's down to 1/4". I went to a 550 thinking that would help, but they have the same thing. Havn't seen mods on hoe to fix it, but i've debated running a drill through there.
I also get pellet build up in the inlet and outlet corners, something to look for. when the pump shuts off i have backflow that pull them into the inlet corners, and they get stuck there.

Only reason i say it's not the MJ is because i've seen the MJ on a proper biopellet reactor and they where stirring like crazy.

untamed
11-11-2011, 06:30 PM
Was your tank relatively "old" at the time you started dosing?

Yes, very mature. High nutrient load. I was able see a nitrate reduction, but nitrates weren't particularly high in the first place. Routine cleaning did a better job.

dc4
11-11-2011, 06:48 PM
I have been vodka dosing for a few months now and I think its great. I admit, I over feed my tank and before I started dosing, I always ran into algae issues due to excess nutrients. Since I started dosing though, the algae has not returned (knock on wood) and everything is growing and doing great.