help...durso or herbie

[Bblinks]

I am in the middle of setting up my 300dd, it didn't come with the overflow so I want to get some opinion on wether to do durso or herbie.

I have durso right now on the tank that I made out of 1.25 pvc, beside the sump being a wave pool I really don't have a problem with durso overflow. I also ran a filter sock on the sump so it is near silent. The main reason I want to go with herbie is due to turn over rate in the sump, so the question is will herbie give me more flow or is it gonna be the same as the durso?

From all my research it seems that the flow rate really depends on the wether the inlet teeth of the overflow beening restrictive or not and the size of the bulkhead you are using. The 300 came with 1" bulkhead so really doesn't matter what I do it can only accommodate 600gph per bulk head. So is it worth it to lose my hidding return line for the extra emergency overflow design on the herbie and get more flow or am I just wasting time and effort for no reason. keep in mind that I am okay with noise level of the durso and the turbulent water in the sump.

[Raf]

100%. Use the emergency drain if you are going to do herbie!

[ScubaSteve]

Personally, I'd say if you can drill one more hole to with the beananimal design (basically a mash up of a durso and a herbie). Just built one myself using 1" lines and it handles retarded amounts of flow. I tried measuring the main siphon at wide open and it was over 1500 gph (in theory it could do 2000 gph at 3 ft of head. Use the Bernoulli equation or if you're lazy you can use this calculator (http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx)). I have to turn it way down so that it stops draining my overflow box! I have the diamond hole saw for 1" bulkheads if you want to borrow it.

If this is not an option, I say herbie as it's basically the beananimal design minus the emergency overflow (which does an amazing job and I am happy to have). If the system is tuned so that the full siphon handles most or all of the flow, and you aren't introducing air anywhere into the siphon, it should be pretty quiet. Stick the pipe just below the water line of your sump and you're set. The water surface in my sump is almost like glass once the bubbles are out of the system.

I agree that the teeth on your overflow will be a limiting factor. I went with a toothless overflow for this reason (though it remains to be seen how I feel about that decision... Love it so far!). What is the length of your overflow and what percentage of that is actually opening?

[Bblinks]

Personally, I'd say if you can drill one more hole to with the beananimal design (basically a mash up of a durso and a herbie). Just built one myself using 1" lines and it handles retarded amounts of flow. I tried measuring the main siphon at wide open and it was over 1500 gph (in theory it could do 2000 gph at 3 ft of head. Use the Bernoulli equation or if you're lazy you can use this calculator (http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx)). I have to turn it way down so that it stops draining my overflow box! I have the diamond hole saw for 1" bulkheads if you want to borrow it.

If this is not an option, I say herbie as it's basically the beananimal design minus the emergency overflow (which does an amazing job and I am happy to have). If the system is tuned so that the full siphon handles most or all of the flow, and you aren't introducing air anywhere into the siphon, it should be pretty quiet. Stick the pipe just below the water line of your sump and you're set. The water surface in my sump is almost like glass once the bubbles are out of the system.

I agree that the teeth on your overflow will be a limiting factor. I went with a toothless overflow for this reason (though it remains to be seen how I feel about that decision... Love it so far!). What is the length of your overflow and what percentage of that is actually opening?

I was thinking about drilling one extra hole beside the other 2, but I came accross a thread on rc where the guy drilled the exact hole where I want to do mine and ended up with the whole tank leaked out through the bottom a few month after setting it up. Mind you he added 4 extra holes on the bottom for a closed loop system.

My overflow is 26 inches tall and I think its got only a small percentage of an opening, some where around 5%. The plan I have is to use durso as a back up, herbie through the 1 in bulk head and run the return behind the tank. I just hate to see extra plumbing in behind the tank. I want to try to make it look as clean as possible.

I guess my only concern with durso or herbie(bean animal is not an option) are can the durso handle as much flow as the herbie using the same 1 inch bulkhead?

[Bblinks]

BTW I might just take you up on that offer Steve on the hole saw. :lol:

[Bblinks]

100%. Use the emergency drain if you are going to do herbie!

Yeah, I think you are 100% correct. The emergency drain is a must if the herbie is installed, but like I said I really don't want to run an extra pipe just for the return on the back of the tank as I only have 2 drilled holes in each of the overflow.

[marks69]

i used just 2 drains for mine. 1 1.5" submerged, and 1 1.5" turned up for emergency. my sump is in the basement and will flow around 9000 gph. i have it dialed down so no water goes in the emerg, and my hammerhead is dialed down a bit. there is no sound, but if i turn off the main drain, the emerg will pick up all the flow.

[ScubaSteve]

Imma confused!

Do you have internal or external overflows? The bottom of the tank is drilled?
What is the total linear length of overflow that the water goes over?
If it's internal overflow, what are the dimensions of the box? Is there room to drill one more hole?

As for the guy who decided to swiss cheese the bottom of his tank, I'd put money on the fact that he:

a. drilled the holes too close together
b. drilled them too close to the edge
c. overtightened the bulkheads
d. all of the above

I've got the 1-3/4" hole saw here in front of me if you want to use it. I'm working at home all day today (or rather, supposed to be working), so you can come by at any time. I'm in the afternoon and evening tomorrow as well.

[Bblinks]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15036348&postcount=136[quote=ScubaSteve;643965]Imma confused!

Take a look at this thread as it is the exact same set up as my tank. Its a marine land 300dd tank with corner overflow. Do you think I can drill an extra hole on the bottom of the tank?

[lastlight]

I drilled my emergency in thru the side... looks like you can easily do that.

http://www.fishbrains.net/images/97/transfer4.jpg

[Bblinks]

I drilled my emergency in thru the side... looks like you can easily do that.

http://www.fishbrains.net/images/97/transfer4.jpg

Not a bad idea at all.

[ScubaSteve]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15036348&postcount=136[quote=ScubaSteve;643965]Imma confused!

Take a look at this thread as it is the exact same set up as my tank. Its a marine land 300dd tank with corner overflow. Do you think I can drill an extra hole on the bottom of the tank?

I think so but you're going to have to break out the tape measure on this one. I think you could fit it in closer to the corner, though its a bit tough to see in the pic.

Some rules of thumb for drilling glass. The minimum distance from the edge of the glass to the edge of the hole is 1 to 1.5 times the thickness of your glass for glass less than 1/2" and 1.5 to 2 times the thickness for glass over 1/2". The minimum distance from the corner of the glass (measuring from the point) is 6.5 times the thickness of your glass.

Other rules of thumb I've heard are: at least one hole diameter away from the edge and two hole diameters from the corner. It all roughly works out the same.

Measure it out and see what you think. If I recall, your tank has a 3/4" think bottom pane?

[Bblinks]

[quote=Bblinks;643969]http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15036348&postcount=136

I think so but you're going to have to break out the tape measure on this one. I think you could fit it in closer to the corner, though its a bit tough to see in the pic.

Some rules of thumb for drilling glass. The minimum distance from the edge of the glass to the edge of the hole is 1 to 1.5 times the thickness of your glass for glass less than 1/2" and 1.5 to 2 times the thickness for glass over 1/2". The minimum distance from the corner of the glass (measuring from the point) is 6.5 times the thickness of your glass.

Other rules of thumb I've heard are: at least one hole diameter away from the edge and two hole diameters from the corner. It all roughly works out the same.

Measure it out and see what you think. If I recall, your tank has a 3/4" think bottom pane?

okay dude, thanks for your help, I will break out the tape measure when I get home tonight.

[Bblinks]

Okay guys, I got my mind made up and I am gonna go with a herbie system. Thanks to everyone who chimed in. Thanks scubasteve for your offer. much appreciation.