cold water question

[rickwaines]

I have had a brain storm that it might be a gas to set up a cold water salt set up on my patio. It is a large concrete patio with tonnes of room and a big glass wall. I am thinking of setting it up next to the glass wall so I can watch it from inside while keeping the mess outside. I also think an added bonus would be no, or little chilling in the winter months. Problem is, I have heard that if there is too much light on these cold water systems the algae gets out of control. Any suggestions? I have never used a UV sterilizer but are they effective at eliminating algae?

The patio is east facing and will need chilling in the summer obviously. For now I am just trying to solve the algae problem.

Rick

PS Any one know why the algae issues would be different with cold water than warm water? I know that the denizens of the cold water reef don't need light to grow unlike a warm water sw set up but I don't get why the algae problems would be so much worse with a cold water set up. And I don't understand why one couldn't control it. It should be said that all of my reef experience is with fresh.

[ScubaSteve]

To some degree, yes, a lot of light can cause algae. But I think of lot of that is going to depend on other factors like nutrients. If you keep it as a low nutrient system, that'll be half the battle with algae. If you are designing a cold water system, you are going to want to pick a region and a depth and design around that. If you were to, say, design a BC species tank, you'll see that aside from macroalgae, there really isnt anything photosynthetic in our waters. We simply don't get enough light here for photosynthetic species to survive. So it begs the question, do you even need a lot of light on this style tank? You should be looking more toward azoox or NPS tanks for maintenance and set-up inspiration. A low power actinic or blue led light would suffice. If you are using high light, you would be creating an environment similar to the shallow zones where algae dominate such as the kelp forests and tide pools we find here.

If you are using natural seawater for water changes, you may introduce waterborne algae into the tank. These could cause algae blooms, but the blooms arise more from the availability of nutrients and warm temperatures rather than light alone. I have no experience with UV in aquaria but my PhD research is based on UV; I'd say yes, it could help reduce algae in the water column. Someone, please correct me if I am wrong on this.

I think husbandry and light selection will be more effective in keeping the algae down than a UV.

I've been dreaming of a coldwater tank for a while. Everytime I go diving I have these wild dreams and aspirations on what I COULD do. What a PhD student can afford to do is another matter.

[Corbin]

Hmm after reading this thread, i read this web page, and he uses t5s on his cold water reefs.

http://www.oregonreef.com/sub_coldwater.htm

"Lighting
Since everything is non-photosynthetic, the lighting requirements are really just for the viewer’s pleasure. I employ a six bulb T5 fixture over each tank..…but, unless I’m photographing critters, I only use two lights from each fixture to illuminate the tanks for ten hours a day. An actinic/10K bulb combination is used in each fixture…..and bulbs are only replaced when they burn out."

i dont think you'd ahve to much light outside honestly - if anything just build a box around the tank, or something like that to get rid of it or bring it down a notch
not during winter/fall anyways

[rickwaines]

Thanks Steve and Corbin

Steve, azoox? NPS? I aint too up on my acronyms. I don't plan on using natural sea water. And I guess it is just a bit harder to control the amount of light when it is outdoors. Worth trying? I guess picking the right critters and building the right system will be key. I am a free diver and I get so excited thinking about stocking my own tank. Just seems like a good idea.

Corbin, I read that link too and that is where the concern came from. It is goot to know that if I got stuck and loved the system though that I could reduce the light even further with an enclosure of sorts.
Thanks you two.

Rick

[rickwaines]

nps and azoox, same same, non phtosynthetic corals. Got it.

[Corbin]

kinda makes me want to make one.

[rickwaines]

kinda makes me want to make one.


I know, it is seems like a great project no?

[ScubaSteve]

nps and azoox, same same, non phtosynthetic corals. Got it.

Right on dude! Ya, sorry... when you nerd out over stuff it's easy to get lost in the acronyms. My bad. I mentioned Azoox because there is a forum (elsewhere) dedicated to them. They have some techniques for feeding and subsequent nutrient removal that I think would work well in a cold water tank.

But yes, same same.

Dude, this is an awesome project. Do it! I think you could get away with whatever amount of light coming in, though darker would better emulate a deep habitat (where the coolest cold water stuff is found.... ugh, horrible unintended pun. Sorry). Like I said, the more you keep nutrients down like you would in a warm reef tank, the more you'll keep the algae down.

Personally I'd vote for an enclosure around the tank but if you are doing it outdoors a wide and shallow "tide pool" type tank would be pretty snazzy. You'd need some way to cut the intensity of the sun in the summer though.

[asylumdown]

If you design for a deeper water cool system as opposed to a shallow system like a kelp forest or tidal zone, where will you get livestock? You don't hear about species from cold water zones being brought up in to the hobby trade all that often. I imagine as a local free diver it would be easy to collect relatively shallower organisms, but the only deep cold water organisms I've heard about being brought to the surface are usually on that night's sushi menu...

[ScubaSteve]

Ya, this is actually probably the biggest hurdle of cold water tanks: livestock. It is unfortunately (or possibly fortunately) illegal to collect sealife here in BC. You need a scientific license to do is legally (believe me, I've considered this on more than one occasion). And to make matters worse, there are no LFS around here that do any coldwater livestock that I know of. That being said, it can be done. You can collect on the sly (though you really shouldn't) and I know of some importers that can get some really sweet coldwater livestock (like Shaw's cowfish).

Our "deep water" species around here actually don't start that deep. Our waters get pretty dark pretty quick. When I say deep water I am meaning something that lives more than a few feet deep and isnt algae. When diving I come across tube anemones and painted anemones (I want a tank for one of these alone) as shallow as 10ft. All of the cool skulpins can be found a couple feet under the water and at night time you can find them right at the surface.

Probably your best bet is to try the tidepool approach for now. You can find brooding and strawberry anemones in tidepools and some times some green ones if you know where to look. Decorator crabs are a cinch to find and starfish you don't even have to try for. If you go some place like Ansel point, just past west van, at low tide you can access a rock wall that has a lot of these sorts of small to medium size tidepool and deeper water species within arms reach. Vancouver island will be even more successful.

I'll leave the logistics of this ip to you :razz: Don't muck up my favorite dive spots though!:twised:

But really, I think a cold water tank would be well worth the effort needed to plan one out.

[rickwaines]

yeah, it is amazing what you can find a few feet from the surface. I have even encountered pipe fish stuck in eelgrass on minus tides just walking around and keeping your eyes peeled. The planning is the part I am going to have to take my time with. I have never kept salt before, never mind a cold salt. I am not sure it will be that tricky but I will have to learn more than I currently know, Pun intended Steve.