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View Full Version : FISH DYING AND BREATHING HEAVY


reefcat
10-09-2011, 04:47 PM
So on another thread i was reading about some one who had added new powerheads and his fish started dying, same thing has happened to me when I added 2 new powerheads, all parameters are fine so I thought it was just a bit of sediment that the powerheads had stirred up because there was a bit of a film on the top of the water. But in the thread some one said that there is a harmful coating on some powerheads and I should run them in vinegar and water, I'll do that but in the mean time can I set up my new skimmer without there being a coating problem??!! HELP PLEASE!!
I have done about a 40% water change since all this started.

arash53
10-09-2011, 04:56 PM
Whats your temperature, power heads increase the temperature.

reefcat
10-09-2011, 05:03 PM
Temp is 78 and was the whole time the powerheads were in there, I took the powerheads out yesterday.

daniella3d
10-09-2011, 05:08 PM
what type of powerhead is it? could there be some electrical leak into the water?

If they are made for aquarium, they should not have any dangerous coating, at least I hope! I use koralia and never even washed them prior to putting them in the aquarium.

Temp is 78 and was the whole time the powerheads were in there, I took the powerheads out yesterday.

reefcat
10-09-2011, 05:12 PM
These are brand new koralia 750gph

2pts
10-09-2011, 05:20 PM
If the new powerheads are stirring up the sand, it could be releasing toxins that were trapped under the sand.

reefcat
10-09-2011, 05:22 PM
Well i have a sandsifting goby and it wasnt really stirring up a lot of sand to begin with.

2pts
10-09-2011, 05:51 PM
If you have a film on top of the water, that indicates to me that the top of the water is still. ( I don't know if I'm right, just trying to rule stuff out to help you )

Try placing one of the powerheads just a few inches below the water suface (not high enough that it sucks air into the powerhead). Aim the powerhead up so it agitates the surface, this will create "waves" which will help with gas exchange as well as add more oxygen to the water, it will also drop the temperature of the water.

Higher temperature water will decrease the saturated oxygen level in the water. Adding powerheads generally raises the temperature.

Also if your salt level is on the higher end, this also decreases the maximum saturated oxygen level in the water.

reefcat
10-09-2011, 08:18 PM
Before I took the powerheads out they were like that. And thats when this all happened, salinity is 0.024. Im scared to put the powerheads back in unless i know theyre clean :sad:

Lampshade
10-09-2011, 09:07 PM
The powerheads would have to be dipped in something pretty nasty to cause that much chaos. Diluted to a full tank system, it would have to be something VERY strong to cause something like this. Try looking at other causes, what are your nitrates at? nitrates will strip oxygen from the water faster than anything if they get out of control. You said your skimmer is not hooked up? what are you using for filtration currently? it that leeching nitrates back to the tank?

reefcat
10-09-2011, 09:12 PM
Nitrates are 0, I just have a fluval 205 running like i have for the past 2 years and I was just gunna install the skimmer and the powerheads, all this happened in one night after i installed the 2 powerheads. I clean the filter alot so it cant the putting nitrates in there.

Bloodasp
10-09-2011, 09:19 PM
Well, your salinity is too low. :p

Aquattro
10-09-2011, 09:26 PM
Can you post the link you found with this similar problem? Any tips from that thread?

reefcat
10-09-2011, 09:31 PM
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=73707&highlight=fish+breathing+heavy

daniella3d
10-10-2011, 12:38 AM
The fish in that thread had a major ich attack, so maybe they were stressed out by the change in the flow in the aquarium and they got ich. Ich will attack the gills of the fish first so before there is even white spots on the fish their gills are covered with parasites, thus the heavy breathing.

I do not beleive that the problem in that thread was caused by the new pump, rather it was caused by the ich attacking the gills of the fish.

Probably the person putting a new pump stressed the fish out while doing a more extensive maintenance and work in the aquarium than usual, and since that person had ich present in the aquarium, it simply took the opportunity and spead on the fish.

I put 2 koralia evolution 1050 in my aquarium and never even washed them. No sign of any problem with my fish...but my fish don't have ich so they don't get sick at the slightest stress.


http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=73707&highlight=fish+breathing+heavy

reefcat
10-10-2011, 01:35 AM
well ive never had ich in here before, man im so confused:sad:, it could be anything at this point i just hope the damage has been done and i can ride it out.

Nate
10-10-2011, 03:29 AM
I'd put money on you having an issue with a protein film on top of the tank. This prevents oxygen exchange and tends to happen in mature systems running a cannister filter (205) and no skimmer ( or a cruddy skimmer)

It's not the powerheads.

Take both powerheads and point them at the surface of the water, from About 3 inches under the surface to agitate the waters surface and break surface tension .

3 hours later, when normal oxygen levels are reached and maintained, fish will act normal

daniella3d
10-10-2011, 04:17 AM
+ 1 on that. No skimmer and a greasy fil at the surface is probably pushing it. At first I was shutting down my skimmer at night because I thought it would help my fish to sleep better because it is a bit noisy in the water when the skimmer is running, but after seing my fish breath very fast in the morning I resumed running the skimmer 24/7. I have not seen my fish do that since then.

I'd put money on you having an issue with a protein film on top of the tank. This prevents oxygen exchange and tends to happen in mature systems running a cannister filter (205) and no skimmer ( or a cruddy skimmer)

It's not the powerheads.

Take both powerheads and point them at the surface of the water, from About 3 inches under the surface to agitate the waters surface and break surface tension .

3 hours later, when normal oxygen levels are reached and maintained, fish will act normal

reefcat
10-10-2011, 04:48 AM
im just wondering why they all started breathing heavy when I introduced the powerheads, thats why i am hesitant to put them back in.

kien
10-10-2011, 06:13 AM
im just wondering why they all started breathing heavy when I introduced the powerheads, thats why i am hesitant to put them back in.

It could be an unfortunate coincidence. The fish death may have happened even if you had not added the powerheads. If death by powerheads was a common thing there would be a lot more threads and discussions about it. I've searched and can't find anything (other than the thread you linked) about death by powerhead. Well, aside from the usual fish swimming into powerheads and getting chopped up.

Film on the surface of the water is definitely not a good thing though.

kien
10-10-2011, 06:17 AM
Actually, if we go with Nate's suggestion about poor oxygen exchange (which I would agree with btw) this could explain the heavy breathing and death. It could be that your fish were just barely getting by with the poor oxygen level in the tank. Then one day you add a powerhead which introduces more flow which forces the fish to swim more which causes them to breath heavier consuming more precious oxygen which is already lacking in the tank and releasing deadly CO2 and suddenly you have a series of unfortunate events :(

reefcat
10-10-2011, 06:25 AM
I agree, I think I'll set up the skimmer and once the film isnt present ill start the powerheads up, thanks for all the advice, I'll update as the whole situation unfolds:biggrin:

cwatkins
10-10-2011, 06:35 AM
You could try throwing an airstone in there on an air pump until the skimmer is all setup and running.

daniella3d
10-10-2011, 04:42 PM
how old is the aquarium? if it is old, it could be the "old tank syndrom" as you added a power head and it might have steared underneat the sand and released some toxic gas?

I agree, I think I'll set up the skimmer and once the film isnt present ill start the powerheads up, thanks for all the advice, I'll update as the whole situation unfolds:biggrin:

reefcat
10-10-2011, 04:54 PM
That is a very good assumption because it is almost two years old now, but how can I prevent that from happening again when I put them back in.

cwatkins
10-10-2011, 05:07 PM
Slowly siphon the sand bed and ensure you are stirring up the deeper sand. In theory it should suck up and remove any gasses.

paddyob
10-10-2011, 07:00 PM
These are brand new koralia 750gph

I run 5 Koralias in two tanks. Never heard of a coating issue. With any brand for that matter.

Good luck.

AquaticFinatic
10-11-2011, 02:37 AM
I'm thinking a little different to most on here. Did you was your hands before you stuck them in there? Could be a poisoning thing going on in there?

reefcat
10-11-2011, 02:54 AM
Ya I always make sure my hands are clean, I don't wash with soap though but I always take all the precautions.

apex82
10-11-2011, 03:21 AM
Ya I always make sure my hands are clean, I don't wash with soap though but I always take all the precautions.

You and I both know that the chances are very likely that the powerheads caused the issue... I had the exact same symptoms in exactly the same duration of time after adding the exact same brand and model of powerheads.

I ended up losing my whole stock after this episode brought on a major case of velvet from the stress caused. There was no evidence of any ich or velvet outbreak the day before. It would be impossible for it to take out 15 fish with all the same symptoms in a night.

Wash those powerheads in vinegar and water for many hours before using them again. If you notice any onset of ich due to the stress caused from this episode I would quarantine right away... Dont wait and try try to ride out like I did.

reefcat
10-11-2011, 04:07 AM
Ive got them running in vinegar, illl keep'em in there for a while before I even think about putting them back in there. I ended up losing 1 purple firefish and one regular firefish fortunately that was it, the rest of the fish are eating well with no signs of velvet or ich. I'll keep updating though.

daniella3d
10-11-2011, 12:23 PM
It is usually a problem with deeper sand bed and usually the sand on that spot become sort of black or dark. The way to prevent this is by having sand sifting snail, like a conch or something limilar. It will go inside the sand and aerate it.

How deep is your sand? It if is only an inch or 2, I doubt that's what hapened.

That is a very good assumption because it is almost two years old now, but how can I prevent that from happening again when I put them back in.

daniella3d
10-11-2011, 12:31 PM
If you had velvet, it is quite clear what caused the death of your fish and it was not the powerhead!! You probably introduced something what had marine velvet (it can live for a few weeks and go unotice before it spread too all the fish) and that was brewing in your tank until it reached all the fish gills and more.

Marine velvet does not come from the air, it does not appear on freshly installed new powerhead either. It does not appear out of nowhere. Weater you stress your fish or not, marine velvet will kill them if you don't treat them with medication and it is a very deadly and fast killer.

It is not because you had no evidence of velvet before installing the pump that they caused it. Velvet had to be present in your tank and it could have been there multiplying to plague proportion for weeks!

It is not impossible for marine velvet to kill all fish withing 24 hours no, actually it is quite common especially if your fish were stressed out by you doing maintenance. Installing a new pump may also have made the velvet larvaes more mobile and able to catch the fish easier due to increased flow.

Next time, do a proper quarantine.

I ended up losing my whole stock after this episode brought on a major case of velvet from the stress caused. There was no evidence of any ich or velvet outbreak the day before. It would be impossible for it to take out 15 fish with all the same symptoms in a night.

Wash those powerheads in vinegar and water for many hours before using them again. If you notice any onset of ich due to the stress caused from this episode I would quarantine right away... Dont wait and try try to ride out like I did.

apex82
10-11-2011, 02:40 PM
I am sure you will come up with a reason how velvet also caused some of my soft corals to completely wither, turn grey and completely die the same night... Get a clue, something got in the water and all evidence points to the pumps.

You put any fish into a situation where they are on the last breath and then barely recover, you will be amazed what stirs up in your tank due to this kind of stress. You seem to forget daniella, the fish were fine for several days after the catastrophe happened... then the disease came a week or so later.

Insuating that everyone's problem has to do with not having a quarantine does not help the purpose of this thread. The point is to keep people aware that it is possible for some contaminant to either get placed or not removed from the product in the manufacturing process and that people should be diligent cleaning everything before it goes in the tank.

Nate
10-11-2011, 03:27 PM
Hey Apex,

I work for a distribution company that distributes hydor pumps in western canada, we have sold 2500 + pumps and have never had this issue. I would suspect you had another problem in your tank. It was likely not the pumps as I would have heard of a problem from the manufacturer as I talk to them very often.

soft corals aside, with velvet present in the system, it does not sound like it is a very healthy one. I'm sorry to hear that you suspect this is your issue, and I wish you good fishkeeping in the future!

OP,

Again I challenge you to take my suggestion from page 2 and throw the powerheads back in pointed at the surface.

Your surface "scum" is a protein layer. Protein skimmers can pull protein from the water, but many rely on aquarium overflow boxes, overflows, or powerheads to keep the protein in the water. Your skimmer will not be efficient at removing the floating protein on the top unless it has a surface extractor on it like the old hang on prizms or skilters...

I would bet that your fish look worse in the morning becasue CO2 levels go up at night naturally as photosynthesis is not happening.

Alternatively, if I cannot convice you to throw the Koralia's back in, take your average gravel vaccum, start a syphon, flip it upside down in the tank, and suck the proteins off of the waters surface. This will increase oxygen exchange and I would bet some money that that is going to show a difference in the tank, and perhaps that will convince you to throw the koralias back in.

I only hope you get to it, as when oxygen levels get too low, you wont just lose one fish. They will all die if oxygen levels are the case. Soft corals and inverts will be able to handle the lower oxygen levels (for the most part, not all), but will eventually die if this problem continues.

If you were in Calgary I would lend you two of the many koralias I have laying around so you could see for yourself.

daniella3d
10-11-2011, 04:03 PM
is that real? you actualy think that a pump could have brought marine velvet into your tank? oki...was it used and recently been in a contaminated aquarium without being desinfected? because if it was brand new, there is NO WAY it could have brought velvet into your tank.

get a clue? maybe you should read a little about marine velvet first? and since you obviously are not doing quarantine, maybe you should get a clue about it? Seem that having velvet in your tank did not do it, not sure what will.

for the purpose of this thread you should have left marine velvet out of the equation because there it is impossible that a brand new pump can bring marine velvet into a clean aquarium. It has to be there first.

Nate, not sure why you are addressing your message to me, as I am not the OP of this thread and beside both of my Koralia evolution 1050 runing backward half of the time, I never had any problem with them.


I am sure you will come up with a reason how velvet also caused some of my soft corals to completely wither, turn grey and completely die the same night... Get a clue, something got in the water and all evidence points to the pumps.

You put any fish into a situation where they are on the last breath and then barely recover, you will be amazed what stirs up in your tank due to this kind of stress. You seem to forget daniella, the fish were fine for several days after the catastrophe happened... then the disease came a week or so later.

Insuating that everyone's problem has to do with not having a quarantine does not help the purpose of this thread. The point is to keep people aware that it is possible for some contaminant to either get placed or not removed from the product in the manufacturing process and that people should be diligent cleaning everything before it goes in the tank.

apex82
10-11-2011, 05:34 PM
I am sure you will come up with a reason how velvet also caused some of my soft corals to completely wither, turn grey and completely die the same night... Get a clue, something got in the water and all evidence points to the pumps.

Read something and process it before responding. The pumps brought the contamination which lead to stress which then lead to disease. Only an idiot would think a pump could bring in velvet and ich.

daniella3d
10-11-2011, 07:05 PM
No sir. If you had marine velvet in your aquarium, it was only a matter of time before it exploded and kill all of your fish.

Read a bit on marine velvet before you post such thing. Marine velvet is a very serious desease and it is a very fast killer. No matter what you would have done, pump or no pump, this would have hapen all the same.

Unless you have chimical analysis to prove that the pumps you put in were contaminated by something, then it is only your own opinion. There are thousands of people buying these pumps and like me, putting them in their aquarium without even rinsing and yet no negative effet. It is not impossible but in your case, it is quite obvious what killed your fish and it was a deadly parasite brought about by you neglecting a proper quarantine and introducing this disease into your tank.

That's not what you want to hear but that is the obvious scenario in your case.




Read something and process it before responding. The pumps brought the contamination which lead to stress which then lead to disease. Only an idiot would think a pump could bring in velvet and ich.

bvlester
10-16-2011, 04:57 AM
Read something and process it before responding. The pumps brought the contamination which lead to stress which then lead to disease. Only an idiot would think a pump could bring in velvet and ich.

Marine velvet is a serious decease stress does not bring it on it has to be introduced in to the tank and can take a week or even 2 before it shows it ugly head, you can only get rid of it by removing the fish and letting the tank go fa-low for 3 months treat the fish with copper safe as copper is the only thing that will kill MV.... ICK on the other hand is present in most fish and can be kick started by stress. Easaly treated with Extreem garlic and selcon soaked flake food for a few days to a week. I think you should start reading more marine aquarium information before jumping in to a thread and making claims.

Bill

reefcat
10-16-2011, 05:15 AM
well the whole ordeal is over. The fish that lived are back and feeding very well. Ive re-introduced the powerheads without flaw and everything seems to be back to normal. After all these opinions it obviously wasnt the powerheads that contaminated the water but I still cannot be sure to what it was. Anyways thanks for all the help everyone!!!

CandyCane
10-17-2011, 03:33 AM
So posted this before reading it was all back to normal but if something like this happens for anyone else heres the steps I would take ===>


I've heard of added oxygen to a system causing fish loss before, its some kind of horrible reaction that oxygen brings out in heavily stocked tanks that were originally very low on oxygen. It doesn't just occur in saltwater tanks it also happens in fresh water ones.
Can you post all of your readings like ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates? Those could help us out a lot to fix the problem!
Keep doing 20% water changes every 2 days! or little 10% ones everyday for the next week or two!
None of this arguing over the problem will ever fix the problem guys :cry:

-Hook the protien skimmer up and don't turn it off. If you think its to loud I would sell it and buy a quiter one you can run all the time

-Email or call the power head company and tell them about the problems you've been having! They will never know their products might have killed your tank or others if people don't let them know!

-If you still have the boxs and recite or the powerheads return them for different ones. I recently baught the same brand and stuck it straight in my tanl as well so the chances must be 1 in a billion

-If your not comfortable with the powerheads add a huge air stone. Gasping fish almost always end up dieing they just can't handle that kind of stress and need tuns of oxygen to possible get them going again

-Do the water changes I suggested earlier for sure!

Tell us your nitrates, nitrites and ammonia levels, I think somethings really up with them.