west epoxy plywood tank

[KevinK]

ok, getting started with a frag tank / sump, where I can put everything in, as we soled the house, and we are prepairing for the move.\

in order to keep stuf alive, I will build the sump for my future new tank, and put what I have all in there, and than in a few months, i will build the main display tank.

any how, so the size I'm going for is 6 feet long x 3 1/2 feet and 1 feet tall, in this tank I will put everything in rows. (water depth would than be about 10inches)

so back to wat I need, and keeping in mind that I will use the info also for my main tank, that will be about 5 1/2 x 5 1/2 feet sq. and about 30 inches TALL


- I go for west system
- how thick ? would 1/6 inch do, ore would less be ok, ore do I need more
- I will ad 1 layer of fiberglass to be shore
- do I go for the west system 5:1 mix kits, ore the 3:1 mix kits

the screw hols, do I gust putty them ?

when adding layers of west, I read that when it is not fullt hardened, like still a bit tacky, I ad a new layer, and than when one side is dun, I turn it all, san the corner a bit and add layerson that side.

ore

do I ad one layer, flip it do the other and flip it, and so on, but than once I get back to the first one, it is fullly hardened

anny how, some guydance ore tips ?

[KevinK]

hmm, no one

[StirCrazy]

don't know if anyone has used west system to build a plywood tank. I have seen it but nopt used it myself and I almost wonder if it is overkill for a tank.

regular fiberglass resin and material should surfice as your going to have to paint it with an epoxy after to get the color you want.

use a quality bondo to fill in any holes first.

Steve

[lastlight]

Nobody still around on canreef has done this to my knowledge. My instinct would be to ask over on RC as that's got plenty of such builds. One even degraded over time and had to be taken down so there are lessons to be learned as well.

[TimT]

I have made plywood and acrylic tanks(4' x 8' x 16" tall) before. I quit making plywood tanks years ago as acrylic is easier to work with and better suited to aquariums than plywood. Plywood tanks generally have a limited life span unless you do a perfect job and never have rock tumble and hit side of tank, which cracks the resin and then the fun starts!!!

Couple important points for plywood tanks:
-Use Marine Grade Plywood as the glue is waterproof
-Use Stainless Steel screws and pre drill all screw holes
-Food safe fiberglas or epoxy resin is good. use two coats.
-Pigment can be added to the final coat
-Use aquarium silicone in all corner seams. You will need to scuff(with 120 grit sandpaper) the cured epoxy/fibreglas and then clean with isopropyl alcohol so the silicone will stick.
-Curing fibreglas/epoxy fumes are not good to breath. Use a respirator and don't do it in a house.

anymore questions you can pm me.

[KevinK]

So I placed my order of epoxy, and cloth

I`m sorry to mention that I went to US composite for all this, I would like to have the local company to make a dollar as well, but for me it turned out to be Canadian price –45% and than is the shipping already in it.

I have 12.5 gallon of epoxy coming over, I will probably need 3 to 4 gallons for my sump (3x7 and 16 inches tall) the sump will function as a frag tank as well, the plan is to put the skimmer in one corner of it (about 18 x 18 inches) than next to it 18x18 my fudge corner with 4 inches of live sand, and than the remaining 5.5x3 feet will be frag tank.

plan is to put a divider in the 5.5x3 feet frag part, by placing a 3.5 feet strip of acrylic in the middle, making it 5.5x1.5 feet x 2 (2 sides).

reason for the divider is to direct flow of the pump, in this case I only need one tunze mounted on a sea swirl pushing over 2.000 gal. of water into one channel, and by the movement of the sea swirl, it will push water into the other channel, giving the water direction in the channel a 180 degree turn, each 8 ore some what seconds.

the remaining epoxy I will use later on to build my main tank, but this would be a few months later.

all sides will be covered with 2 layers of 7.5 oz. woven fiberglass, this should keep it nice and stiff, egg crate on the entire bottom, and it should last (I hope !!)

[KevinK]

I have made plywood and acrylic tanks(4' x 8' x 16" tall) before. I quit making plywood tanks years ago as acrylic is easier to work with and better suited to aquariums than plywood. Plywood tanks generally have a limited life span unless you do a perfect job and never have rock tumble and hit side of tank, which cracks the resin and then the fun starts!!!

Couple important points for plywood tanks:
-Use Marine Grade Plywood as the glue is waterproof
-Use Stainless Steel screws and pre drill all screw holes
-Food safe fiberglas or epoxy resin is good. use two coats.
-Pigment can be added to the final coat
-Use aquarium silicone in all corner seams. You will need to scuff(with 120 grit sandpaper) the cured epoxy/fibreglas and then clean with isopropyl alcohol so the silicone will stick.
-Curing fibreglas/epoxy fumes are not good to breath. Use a respirator and don't do it in a house.

anymore questions you can pm me.

tim, proublem is that the acrylick locally is $12 a sqft for 1/4 material, so for a 7x3 and 16 inch tall tank, that sould be lots of $$, and the acrylick needs support as well, so for wood, there is not much to save on

[mike31154]

12.5 gallons of epoxy sounds like a bit much for what you plan to build. I provided some input on your previous thread dealing with epoxy since I built a 16' cedar strip canoe using West System & fibreglass cloth over the cedar strips.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=78068

I ordered the cedar, fiberglass cloth & epoxy from Great Northern Craft in North Van. Cedar was all 1/4 inch thick, don't recall the weight of the cloth. The Bear Mountain Boat Shop plans for the Bob's Special design I purchased at Lee Valley Tools in Ottawa just before I moved to Vernon.

Back to the amount of epoxy required to build my boat. I still have almost a half gallon of epoxy and just under a quart of hardener left over from this project. The original order came with 2 x 2 gallons of 105 B resin & 2 x 0.33 quarts of 207 SB hardener. Don't know anything about the epoxy brand you ordered but still sounds like way too much to me. IIRC I put down 3 or 4 coats of epoxy on the outside & inside of a 16' boat using just over 3 gallons of epoxy & maybe a quart of hardener. I'd say 6 gallons of epoxy would be more than enough for what you plan to build. Not sure what ratio of hardener that requires for the brand you ordered, but probably half or less.

I also ordered 6 oz of 403-6 microfibres. These can be added to the epoxy to make it thicker for use as a glue to bond pieces of wood together (clamped) or as a filler (depending on the amount of fibres used). You can also mix sawdust or small wood shavings into the epoxy for similar results. The West System comes in cans with appropriately sized pumps available to meter the epoxy & hardener in the correct ratio, so no need to figure out the ratio required for proper curing. Two squirts from the resin can requires two squirts from the hardener can. Different numbers of West System are for different applications and varying cure times.

As far as building itself goes, I'd say completely assemble the tank first with all the screws etc to hold it together. The fibreglass cloth can be cut & overlapped at the seams to ensure there are no folds along the flat surfaces. It does lend itself to some stretching and is relatively easy to work with. Any larger holes should be filled before the epoxy goes on, but smaller ones may be left alone since the epoxy will fill all the crevices. Using this approach, there should be no need to silicone the corners or perform additional waterproofing. Doesn't matter whether you do the outside or inside first, but finish one & allow to cure before doing the next. In my case, I completely finished the outside of the boat (all coats) & allowed to fully cure before flipping it over & doing the inside.

Applying the epoxy can be a bit nerve wracking since you need to proceed relatively quickly when working large surface areas and this is where the properties & cure time of the brand you're using becomes the driving factor. To build my boat I had a helper mix the epoxy in small margarine containers while I applied it. When I was part way through using the first container, I had my assistant start mixing the next batch. This covered about 3 to 4 feet of length. This procedure ensures that when you start applying epoxy to the next section, the first is still wet enough to blend into the new section you are starting. For the surface area you'll be dealing with, you might be able to do cover a complete side (inside or outside) in one shot. At some time during the process, you need to scrape off the excess epoxy with a plastic squeegee for a nice smooth surface. This also ensures the first coat is properly absorbed into the fibreglass cloth and there are no bubbles. Bubbles are to be avoided at all costs since these will weaken the structure. This is where the proper mixture ratio, ambient temperature and good quality epoxy pays dividends. You'll need a grunge container to take the excess epoxy you're scraping off. Empty frozen orange juice cans (the cardboard kind) with a slit cut into the side work well to clean off the plastic squeegee & catch the excess.

For additional info, any boat building sites are a valuable resource, since the goal is pretty much the same, a strong, waterproof structure. Here's a link to the Bear Mountain site. A book such as Canoe Craft or Kayak Craft is also a great resource for step by step instructions on applying epoxy. Don't forget a couple of coats of good quality marine varnish to protect the epoxy from breaking down. This applies more to UV from sunlight, but marine aquarium lighting tends to be pretty intense as well, so an ounce of prevention here can save you some grief down the road.

http://bearmountainboats.com/

Edit: FWIW, I don't think you need to use marine plywood since the epoxy & fibreglass will waterproof the whole thing anyhow. I used ordinary carpenters glue to bond the cedar strips together. Save some $$$s by using construction grade plywood.... unless looks are important, then use something that's 'good' on one side.

What the hey, here's a link to my windows live photos of a good portion of the boat build.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=a0157e1b64909474&page=play&resid=A0157E1B64909474!968

[StirCrazy]

What the hey, here's a link to my windows live photos of a good portion of the boat build.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=a0157e1b64909474&page=play&resid=A0157E1B64909474!968

man that turned out nice. when you say it took all summer to do, how often were you working on it? I have been toying around with trying to build one myself.

Steve

[mike31154]

Thanks Steve. First I had to build the strongback and moulds from the plans, that took a while. Setting up the molds and aligning them on the strongback took a bit of time as well, you want a straight, true running boat. Same idea when you attach the first strips, they need to be bang on, once you start gluing & stacking them it's pretty much impossible to make any corrections. Worked on it fairly steady for probably a month and then ended up waiting for an order of the exotic coloured wood to make the Haida Raven inlays. Also had to wait a bit for the seats & thwart which I ordered from Ontario.

From the photos I have it looks like I started in May and christened it on Kalamalka Lake with a bottle of beer October 30th, 2005. Probably took a little longer than it had to since it was my first attempt & I wanted to get it right, no rushing stuff. Now that I already have the molds & strongback built, any subsequent build should go quicker. It's hard to describe the satisfaction you get on completion of such a project and the day you first get the bottom wet. Every build is unique and there's not another like it anywhere, even if it does come from the same plans.

Might do another some time, maybe even a kayak. I have the Kayak Craft book which includes the tables to draw up your own molds. That's a lot of work too though. The canoe plans I used are actually taken from a 15' design, but by spacing each of the 12 mold stations an extra inch apart, it becomes a very fine 16' boat. The plans include this information and the fact that it is still a true design.

I've owned two previous canoes, a Maurice 16' fibreglass when I was still in high school in Cold Lake & later a 17' Lund aluminum. Neither one of them paddled anywhere near as nice as my Bob's Special. If you're itching to give it a go, I'd be prepared to lend you my molds, although technically Bear Mountain Boats would be owed a royalty for each subsequent build using the same plans & molds. The strongback might be a little more difficult to transport to Kamloops though, it can't be broken down easily so you'd need a vehicle that can handle a bulky 16' beast.