This really steams me.

[Black Phantom]

So I decide to go into one of the "big box" LFS in the northeast (which I don't usually do). And as I'm walking around the salesperson is adding up a list of all the new marine fish (8 to be exact)that this gentleman is picking out. When I mention he must have a large tank he says that he is just starting a 28 and is picking it out today.
When the salesperson mentions he will need live rock he asks "what's that".
The salesperson says he will need it to balance the system and with the right additives he should be able to put his fish in the tank in about 3 days. Now I'm mad. This is just wrong. :mad:
So while the salesperson is off getting "stuff" I quickly jot down the URL for Canreef and convince the guy to hold off on the fish at least for a couple of weeks. Hopefully by then he will come online here and start to gather some knowledge of what it really takes to have happy critters and not kill a ton of stuff getting there.
I realize the bottom line for these stores is sales but a little more information to the customer would sure go a long way.

[kien]

That customer has probably been watching 'Tanked' ...:neutral:

[xtreme]

You're not the only one that gets steamed. Anytime I am in either of the box stores in the NE I usually leave shaking my head....

[Ross]

I'd confronted staff at both of the stores about the lack of concern over sick fish in their tanks, and the typical responce is that "the fish are all qt'd at the wholesailer and that they are all in pristine shape".

So that white fuzz and spots all over those fish is a sign of health then?

Red Coral, Golds and Ocean City for me thanks.

[Parker]

I often wonder if the management at said establishments are directing the employees to sell, sell, sell or if it’s just a general lack of knowledgeable employees, or the lack of proper training and education. If they don't know what they are doing is incorrect, is it the employee's fault? I don't believe so.

[cityreefer]

i agree parker, educating staff is the one on problem for stores like this. its hard to keep employees as i image the wage is just not where it needs to be to live in Alberta.
How do you keep good staff for long, the box stores in Edmonton seem to be doing good with staff for the most part.

[JMes]

Those 2 stores cater to this type of clientele. Anyone with any type of common sense and knowledge doesn't buy their live
stock or dry goods from these type of stores.

I sold a HOB skimmer awhile back to a person that only shops at those 2 stores,and to be honest this had to the be dumbest guy I ever met in this hobby. Calls me up 3 times that evening complaining that the skimmer is making all sorts of noise and that its my fault that it's not working. Turns out this genius didn't add water inside the skimmer.:wink:

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

I sold a HOB skimmer awhile back to a person that only shops at those 2 stores,and to be honest this had to the be dumbest guy I ever met in this hobby. Calls me up 3 times that evening complaining that the skimmer is making all sorts of noise and that its my fault that it's not working. Turns out this genius didn't add water inside the skimmer.:wink:

Water? What's water?

[Aquaria]

If u didn't know already most big stores are about profit do u really think they care? I mean buddywill kill his fish and come back for more after instead of seeing him one time they get to see him many times. It's a sad realization that people just don't care. I'm waiting to see something like that on a bad day lol I would make them feel like complete idiots for the obvious disregard for basic life

[Proteus]

I was at the big biz here in Edmonton when I overheard a guy buying a ro unit cause he had high nitrates in his tank. 80/90. I said waste of money. And walked over. The sales guy just walked away. I started to talk to they guy and all that was in his tank was fish. No cleanup crew no mangrove Nothing. I educated him to the best of my knowledge. Told him to take the 400 buck he was going to spend on the ro unit and buy a cleanup crew. He started to walk to the back and I said why the hell would you buy it here when they just tried to rip u off. He was shocked. Sent him to a local FS. I asked the sales guy wtf and he just shrugged his shoulders and walked away. Ffs

[shrimpchips]

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing..

[parkinsn]

I often wonder if the management at said establishments are directing the employees to sell, sell, sell or if it’s just a general lack of knowledgeable employees, or the lack of proper training and education. If they don't know what they are doing is incorrect, is it the employee's fault? I don't believe so.

I worked for a big box store in my FW days years ago. Thats all it was.... Sell, sell, sell. I would send people to other stores to be sure they were getting what they need not what we had on the shelf. I figured that if your going to buy something and have half a head on your shoulders buy what is proper. If you help a customer out properly the first time they will remember that and come back to you when then need something, at least I remember customer service like that. I quit shortly after management gave me a talking to about not sending people away and just making a sale.

[Zoaelite]

Those 2 stores cater to this type of clientele. Anyone with any type of common sense and knowledge doesn't buy their live
stock or dry goods from these type of stores.

I sold a HOB skimmer awhile back to a person that only shops at those 2 stores,and to be honest this had to the be dumbest guy I ever met in this hobby. Calls me up 3 times that evening complaining that the skimmer is making all sorts of noise and that its my fault that it's not working. Turns out this genius didn't add water inside the skimmer.:wink:

Funny, said store in question sold me this yellow colony for a WHOPPING $20.00 out of there brown bin. Threw common sense out the window on that one!

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/3853/img2050v.jpg (http://img853.imageshack.us/i/img2050v.jpg/)

[naesco]

So I decide to go into one of the "big box" LFS in the northeast (which I don't usually do). And as I'm walking around the salesperson is adding up a list of all the new marine fish (8 to be exact)that this gentleman is picking out. When I mention he must have a large tank he says that he is just starting a 28 and is picking it out today.
When the salesperson mentions he will need live rock he asks "what's that".
The salesperson says he will need it to balance the system and with the right additives he should be able to put his fish in the tank in about 3 days. Now I'm mad. This is just wrong. :mad:
So while the salesperson is off getting "stuff" I quickly jot down the URL for Canreef and convince the guy to hold off on the fish at least for a couple of weeks. Hopefully by then he will come online here and start to gather some knowledge of what it really takes to have happy critters and not kill a ton of stuff getting there.
I realize the bottom line for these stores is sales but a little more information to the customer would sure go a long way.

It is great to hear that you involved yourself in this situation.
We as reefers owe it to the critters that remove from their home to do everything we can to protect them from this kind of abuse.
Good job!

[Myka]

I was at the big biz here in Edmonton when I overheard a guy buying a ro unit cause he had high nitrates in his tank....

Nice! Good job!

[Wayne]

Funny, said store in question sold me this yellow colony for a WHOPPING $20.00 out of there brown bin. Threw common sense out the window on that one!

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/3853/img2050v.jpg (http://img853.imageshack.us/i/img2050v.jpg/)

Um if thats common practice at that LFS then I need to know where they are located!

[intarsiabox]

I have been to the box store in Edmonton a number of times over the years and have been asked about my tank size and how long it's been set up by quite a few of the staff before selling me any live stock. Dry goods are over priced but livestock is usually good and always in great shape anytime I have been there. You can go to any fish store and be miss-informed about things, just because someone works in a small store does not mean they know any more than the guy working at a box store. I've seen the same things going on at smaller LFS that people are complaining about happening at big box stores too. Research what you want before you buy and if you don't see it wait. Plenty of times smaller LFS won't have what I want in stock and will try convincing me to buy something that is in stock but I know nothing about.

[Black Phantom]

LOL
I've got to tell you that it was really hard not to push the salesperson aside and take over.
But then I would have to hang around the store every day:sad:

[JMes]

Funny, said store in question sold me this yellow colony for a WHOPPING $20.00 out of there brown bin. Threw common sense out the window on that one!

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/3853/img2050v.jpg (http://img853.imageshack.us/i/img2050v.jpg/)

I would like to buy a fish. Anything that is blue. It has to be blue because I just decorated,and I want the fish to match my nice blue wallpaper. All your fish have velvet or Ick. Whats that? Oh,its normal in healthy fish. COOL,
thanks for clearing that up with me. Ok,I want a blue fish,Preferably velvet as the word velvet sounds sexy.OMG!! I will name it velvet Revolver!! Size? DAmn right size matters. Always say Bigger the better. My tank? It's one of those cube things. Biocube 14? Doesn't matter as velvet Revolver will fit right at home with the other 10 fish in there.
Oh,I will also take one of those dying or dead stick corals. Do those 1000 little flat things covering it cost extra?

Big deal,obviously someone you know sold you the coral at discount price. Fact of the matter these guys sell alot of unhealthy fish,dead or dying corals to inexperienced hobbyist at premium prices. I have seen this first hand. I wouldn`t put any of their corals or fish 10 feet from my tank. Go BS someone else:wink:

[daniella3d]

yep...that's probably it!

good one :)

That customer has probably been watching 'Tanked' ...:neutral:

[Madreefer]

I would like to buy a fish. Anything that is blue. It has to be blue because I just decorated,and I want the fish to match my nice blue wallpaper. All your fish have velvet or Ick. Whats that? Oh,its normal in healthy fish. COOL,
thanks for clearing that up with me. Ok,I want a blue fish,Preferably velvet as the word velvet sounds sexy.OMG!! I will name it velvet Revolver!! Size? DAmn right size matters. Always say Bigger the better. My tank? It's one of those cube things. Biocube 14? Doesn't matter as velvet Revolver will fit right at home with the other 10 fish in there.
Oh,I will also take one of those dying or dead stick corals. Do those 1000 little flat things covering it cost extra?

Big deal,obviously someone you know sold you the coral at discount price. Fact of the matter these guys sell alot of unhealthy fish,dead or dying corals to inexperienced hobbyist at premium prices. I have seen this first hand. I wouldn`t put any of their corals or fish 10 feet from my tank. Go BS someone else:wink:

Man that sounded like me when I first started. Alot of people wont admit that but pretty sure alot were the same. I used to think that those guys at the fish store were sooo smart. After reading several books and hours researching on the net my attitude has totally changed towards this rewarding hobby. I regret to say I have killed alot of fish and corals and wasted tons of money over the years. I do my own research now and it has paid off and there really is not alot of people working in fish stores that I trust. None in my town at all.

[Proteus]

We all make nube mistakes. Heck I'm still a nube. But I've learned that there are people willing to help and even this site helped me out Alot. But honestly I never knew bout the better FS only the big box. Made my mistakes now I no

[Zoaelite]

I would like to buy a fish. Anything that is blue. It has to be blue because I just decorated,and I want the fish to match my nice blue wallpaper. All your fish have velvet or Ick. Whats that? Oh,its normal in healthy fish. COOL,
thanks for clearing that up with me. Ok,I want a blue fish,Preferably velvet as the word velvet sounds sexy.OMG!! I will name it velvet Revolver!! Size? DAmn right size matters. Always say Bigger the better. My tank? It's one of those cube things. Biocube 14? Doesn't matter as velvet Revolver will fit right at home with the other 10 fish in there.
Oh,I will also take one of those dying or dead stick corals. Do those 1000 little flat things covering it cost extra?

Big deal,obviously someone you know sold you the coral at discount price. Fact of the matter these guys sell alot of unhealthy fish,dead or dying corals to inexperienced hobbyist at premium prices. I have seen this first hand. I wouldn`t put any of their corals or fish 10 feet from my tank. Go BS someone else:wink:

At the end of the day Caveat emptor applies, if your going to purchase something research it first. Your generalizing about all staff members @ all big box stores, I'm just playing devils advocate and saying there are few good ones out there.

I know of one person at this certain location that is highly knowledgeable about our hobby, having worked at a chain store your melodramatic impression of a LFS employee was a little insulting. Have you worked @ a LFS? Have you worked a retail job? I'm certainly not BS'ing when I say customers with predetermined mind frames like yourself make retail miserable.

[kien]

And we're back! :pop2:

ZoaSensei is right tho. There are a couple of very knowlegable staffers at both Big Box stores that are in this hobby and also frequent this board. However they don't work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week so to fill the void there are some not-as-knowledgeable staffers, sadly :-(

[Aquattro]

And we're back! :pop2:


Do you, by any chance, deliver? I could use some of that popcorn :)

[kien]

Do you, by any chance, deliver? I could use some of that popcorn :)

Focus Brad focus!! The random thought thread is over th... Oh.. Nevermind..

[Zoaelite]

Focus Brad focus!! The random thought thread is over th... Oh.. Nevermind..

I laughed so hard at this <3.:lol:

[reefwars]

At the end of the day Caveat emptor applies, if your going to purchase something research it first. Your generalizing about all staff members @ all big box stores, I'm just playing devils advocate and saying there are few good ones out there.

I know of one person at this certain location that is highly knowledgeable about our hobby, having worked at a chain store your melodramatic impression of a LFS employee was a little insulting. Have you worked @ a LFS? Have you worked a retail job? I'm certainly not BS'ing when I say customers with predetermined mind frames like yourself make retail miserable.


agreed completely:) i knew one at edmontons store and he was very knowlegeable it is what it is some are some arent.....its on the consumer


healthiest clam i ever bought came from aqua giant, guy at big als found me a gate valve in a hurry/emergency from his house and gave it to me for free.....ive also had not so good experiences similar to the one the op is talking about....it is what it is....some of our own most respected reefers that work at these stores are on this site and unless you knew them in person you would never have guessed,hell id go as far as to say some of you accepted advise from them not knowing it lol :):)

[martinmcnally]

I was in and LFS in San Francisco one time and watched the clerk as this guy approached with a fish tank and his 5 year old daughter coming walking with a little container of clown fish haha. This place you pick our your own fish. He just looked at the guy and said "ummm yea, your not ready for those, gold fish are over there" haha

[Aquaria]

Ok buying fish is just like buying a dog big box store=pjs pets,pet smart, pet cetra ect. Small LFS=the small reputable non puppy mill breeders NOW that being said. a small reputable breeder would NEVER sell a dog to someone they thought wasn't ready or didn't know enough about the breed but on the other hand the big box stores won't even ask where u live or if u know anything about the dog ur buying. Now why should a lfs be any different? I'm also not saying this is a everyone or all situation I'm just saying what iv noticed

[Parker]

I think you also have to factor in the variability of the hobby as well. There are so many ways to do so many things that it's impossible to come up with a tried and true solution for everyone. As a novice the method I researched may not be the method the employee has been taught. The employee has mostly been trained ( I’m sure ) to offer up solutions according the material stocked on the shelves. While it might not be the overall best solution to the issue at hand it's not necessarily wrong.

We all have to at the very least remember that this is a business designed and built to make money. The general public may put too much faith in the employee. Case in point how many people would take the word of a used car salesman saying this car was only driven by a little old lady to church on Sundays. It happens sure, but I bet it's far less than the people walking in to buy a tank and a clown fish the first day. As mentioned above the buyer needs to be educated as well as the employee.

I ( and I'm sure everyone here ) use those big box stores. I really like the guys at my small LFS and enjoy talking with them, but let’s be honest sometimes it's nice to run into the big box store grab what you need off the shelf and take off, in and out in 2.3 minutes. There is a place for them.

[mark]

so manager hears the employee telling the customer 'since you just setup your tank, come back in a month and I might sell you something then', wondering if employee still has a job?

[shrimpchips]

A lot of the smaller stores will sell crap to stupid people. Not everybody who buys at the small stores is getting super healthy fish and a great deal - and the opposite can be said for the big box stores. Not all the stuff they have is crap and over priced.

If you don't know what you're looking for, no matter where you go, you won't be getting what you want - it's not the LFS employee's job to fully educate each and every joe schmuck that comes through the door on every product they want to purchase; they just work there.

[amoreira]

There's always pressure on the LFS employee to be the "expert" - all in the interest of customer service. Good employers should tell their employees that honesty is the best policy. I'd appreciate it as a customer. I'd appreciate employers that encourage their employees to learn something about the hobby too. I suspect in a big box store, during off hours there's lots of opportunities for staff to read a book on it (say one of the Two Little Fishies books) or surf the web for information. They want to retain staff? Make the job interesting and pay better.

Maybe the type of customer that these stores get doesn't warrant knowledgable staff. I think the type that go there wouldn't be inclined to invest the $ or time to do it right. They stock up the tank, it crashes and they sell it in a garage sale or kjijji. Ultimately, perhaps we need regulation of the industry. You need a CITES permit to export livestock. This is in interest of protecting the species... Why don't we license hobbyists and LFS's? Take a certification course, pay a fee and get your license. Just some random thoughts on the subject. Might save a few clownfish from doom.

[reefwars]

[quote= Ultimately, perhaps we need regulation of the industry. You need a CITES permit to export livestock. This is in interest of protecting the species... Why don't we license hobbyists and LFS's? Take a certification course, pay a fee and get your license. Just some random thoughts on the subject. Might save a few clownfish from doom.[/quote]



id like to know whos going to pay for this course?? this happens you can say goodbye to the little lfs and all you will get is big box stores that now hire teenagers still who have done a course but are still told to sell sell sell;)



its not that difficult people.....research what you buy.....how many business's are gonna go educate people and read books in their off times? not many....you buy smokes you think the clerk is gonna tell you the bad stuff? you buy deep fryer fat you think the grocery store cares? walmart and buying bullets or a gun and how its wrong to hunt?? sometimes people just dont want to be told what to do its up to us this for just about every type of business :)


grow up were not 4 yrs old then its mom responsibilitie, buy what you like when you like take responsibilitie for your own purchases

[kien]

I have been to LFS' where the owner did not know the answer to some of my questions. I know, ZOMG right?!?!?

[bignose]

It should be a priority for store owners/mangers to have a quality control program which should include training. The store should have someone with adequate training for the group of employees to learn from from. A customer will most likely come back to a store that is honest to them.

I'm not saying the stores are responsible for uneducated customer purchases but someone should lead them in the proper path to what they want in their tank.

From my personal experience with "big box" stores is they DO have educated staff but not all of them.

[albert_dao]

The salesperson says he will need it to balance the system and with the right additives he should be able to put his fish in the tank in about 3 days.

To be fair, this is not entirely incorrect... Just throwing it out there.

[globaldesigns]

I have been to LFS' where the owner did not know the answer to some of my questions. I know, ZOMG right?!?!?

Nothing wrong with that, as long as they are honest and state they don't but will help you find the answer. I have much more respect for any store that operates this way. Noboday can know everything, just not possible!

[Myka]

Most people into reef keeping seriously aren't the type to work a $10-15/hr job at an LFS. Albeit many/most(?) of the box stores do have some really good benefit plans and RRSP contributions. If LFS were able to pay $20-25/hr there would be many more "experts" working there. The market won't support that wage though. I'm not working anymore, but I would go work part-time at an LFS for $20/hr plus benefits and RRSPs and I would actually enjoy the job! :mrgreen:

[StirCrazy]

Most people into reef keeping seriously aren't the type to work a $10-15/hr job at an LFS.

thats being generious.. most LFS are min wage just like the box store and the employs generly know how to clean glass and stock shelves. granted there are some knowlagable people working in both.

I shop at big box stores if I can get the same thing for a cheeper price over the LFS, other wise its mail order as I believe the onus is on us to know what we want and how to select quality.

and for the record there are many LFS that will sell the same way as mentiond originaly. I have been to some very good LFS and watched people walk out the door with a new tank and rock and fish. there bottom line is the same.. there in it to make money other wise they won't be there.

Steve

[kien]

Nothing wrong with that, as long as they are honest and state they don't but will help you find the answer. I have much more respect for any store that operates this way. Noboday can know everything, just not possible!

you are right, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all.

[Coralgurl]

I'm a total newb to this hobby and I've relied on all the stores for information (big and small). Yes, I have taken some bad advise, but most i have talked to have been helpful and knowledgable and if they didn't know, one guy actually gave me the manager's business card to call later. I didn't start looking for forums or websites until I started having a problem with my corals. With the assistance of people on the forums, I was able to go into any of these stores, knowing what i needed and walk away from what I didn't. I've been able to figure out what stores have what, the prices and convenience - I make the choice where I want to go. That said, regardless of knowledge, customer service goes a long way - one NE store I've been in twice looking at new pumps. They have theirs locked up. I browsed the area for some time, looking at a number of things. Went to check out the fish, the corals, everything. In there for an hour, not one person approached me to see if I needed a hand, had questions, nothing. Thought, maybe just an off day, went back a week later, exact same thing and there was no one else in the store, so it wasn't like they were busy, other than gossiping at the front till. That alone is the reason I won't go back. I went somewhere else, dropped a few hundred dollars on the pump and then when I had problems, went back in and the guy spent another 1/2 hour with me to get it straightened out.

I wish we had researched before we started, but it seems like this is the way a lot of people start out. Point is now I'm learning and using a number of resources, websites, forums, books and sometimes even the employee in the lfs.