How many people fall for the "deluxe" frags?

[ReefOcean]

I am looking to stock my new tank, and the journey has led me through google and back and I am finding a lot of retailers that sell "deluxe" coral frags

Some blue Mille called stuff like "super electric awesome thug kanye west explosion mille" and whatnot. But, instead of 10 bucks, it is like hundreds of dollars for a 1" frag.

Now Kanye West doesn't have a coral named after him yet - it was just an example.

This site I found extra fascinating:

http://sexycorals.com/Sexy_SPS.html

Almost all of the stuff there I have seen at J&L at some point, but usually called "assorted Mille" and "Pink Acro"

Look at their Chalice prices....

And the Canadian market isn't without it's perpetrators either. It is common to see colony pricing on Canadian frag variants of common coral with super names.


The internet seems to be littered with these sites

Do people really fall for this? I find it laughable and unjustly elitist, like buying a $10,000 dollar watch with a ETA movement in it.


It really makes me want to sell my Chocolate Hershey Machine Gun Staghorn (browned out staghorn) for 300 loonies a frag...any takers? Can't find Machine Gun Stag for any cheaper...

[ALang]

Yeah, more money than brains.
But if I had the money...I still probably wouldn't spend it like that...

[lorenz0]

I agree with you to a certain extent

when I orginally bought my red planet frag (about 1" max) it ended up costing me close to $240 by the time it got into my tank. To say the least it paid itself off and ended up being my largest acro. There are certain corals that you will never or rarely see in a shipment. Than there are corals that come in as a wild coral that just don't make it. strawberry shortcake is a great example of this. I have seen 3 colonies come in and not one of them survived.

IMO i have given up on "designer" sps frags. My new set up consists of caps, some digi, and birdsnest... I love it. After spending hundreds of $$$ on frags/cultures I will never do it again.

[shrimpchips]

A lot of sps and other corals (you LPS folks are guilty of this too) are pretty garden variety and get hyped up to get caught up with the really "unique" corals. Quite a few of those millies and the like show up all the time - however, I have yet to see anything like a Red Planet, Hawkins Echinata, Montipora setosa, Sunset monti show up in a cultured/wild shipment to date. Those "named"/"designer" corals are often worth their cost.

Like lorenz0, my montipora setosa probably took an arm to get into my tank in the end. But now after almost 2 years with it, it's made it's cost back and is already over 6" wide and is a one of the most spectacular corals in my tank. Well worth the cost to me :)

[phi delt reefer]

lot of the "brand name" stuff is heavily aquacultured so it does very well in home aquaria vs the random crap LFS ship in from the ocean. You can get similar stuff cheap at the LFS in every shipment but theres a 50% its just gonna brown out or just die on you. Some corals just dont do well in closed systems.

also buying designer from the store is like buying Hugo Boss at the Holt Renfrew at full retail. You gotta find deals from hobbyiest who are just looking to make a few extra bucks to help pay their aquarium costs.

[Aquattro]

These are certainly nice pieces, but I won't pay that kind of money. I don't mind waiting for you to buy it and grow it out, I'll get a $20 frag from you next year! I think the most I've paid for a frag is about 40 bucks, and even that was a lot.
On the flip side, once all my "named" acros grow up, frags will be 10 or 15 bucks. And my frags are never 1" :) There are enough people that just want the nice piece and not want to recoup their costs in the first 2 frags they sell, so once they have frags, them I buy the fancy stuff.

[Haloreef]

Hey, you know I have a tank full of named corals, but I would not have bought any of them if I did not like them, regardless of cost.
I buy what I like! Some of my nicest pieces are wild collected and in the last few years I have noticed that the wild pieces are starting to cost more because LFS are not bringing them in as much. I have been good friends with 3 LFS owners over the years and have had the good luck to help un pack many coral orders as they come in and as such have had first shot at a lot of corals before the general public. I have never seen anything like a Purple Monster or a Red Planet or Ice Fire Echinata show up in these orders.
There have been some realy nice stuff don't get me wrong.
I guess you just buy what you can afford and like and thats the way I look at this hobby.
I don't think I would call anybody names because they were buying stuff for reasons other than mine.
Just my two cents though.
Keith.

[Aquattro]

Absolutely right Keith. Nothing wrong with buying a frag of something nice if you like it and can justify the cost. For me, my money needs to go to other things, like feeding baby, dogs, etc. I have a limited tank budget and couldn't spend that kind of money if I wanted to. For me, I have to wait a year for your purple monster to be sprouting branches out of the top of your tank, and hopefully you're throwing it away by then :) Sometimes I just have to wait longer than you to have these pieces.Sometimes a lot longer -lol

[apexifd]

catchy names or slogans help to sell products right?

[albert_dao]

These are certainly nice pieces, but I won't pay that kind of money. I don't mind waiting for you to buy it and grow it out, I'll get a $20 frag from you next year! I think the most I've paid for a frag is about 40 bucks, and even that was a lot.
On the flip side, once all my "named" acros grow up, frags will be 10 or 15 bucks. And my frags are never 1" :) There are enough people that just want the nice piece and not want to recoup their costs in the first 2 frags they sell, so once they have frags, them I buy the fancy stuff.

Why would you sell something for less than market value?

[Aquattro]

Why would you sell something for less than market value?

Because I'm fragging it to prevent contact with the adjacent coral, and I get to help a fellow hobbyist obtain something they might otherwise not have access to and when I need a frag back of something, the favor is almost always returned. It's called karma and works out really well for me almost all the time.

[nc208082]

removed

[Aquattro]

removed.

Don't even go there! We are not discussing him, any reference to that site in this thread will be removed.

[don.ald]

^^^^
hey! i was just making the popcorn.

[Aquattro]

^^^^
hey! i was just making the popcorn.

Sorry, we're just not doing that again :)

[albert_dao]

Because I'm fragging it to prevent contact with the adjacent coral, and I get to help a fellow hobbyist obtain something they might otherwise not have access to and when I need a frag back of something, the favor is almost always returned. It's called karma and works out really well for me almost all the time.

It also devalues the product over the span of the local market in the short term and possibly beyond in the long.

Makes for a great buyers market, but stymies the profitability and resulting development of the businesses that assume the time and risk to import these animals in the first place.

Why would I, assuming I sold corals, spend the countless hours and dollars needed to do all the import/export processes to bring in a lineaged coral from the States when its profitability is destined to be undermined within the year? What incentives do I have to not just sell more of the same stuff that I'm already selling?

[Aquattro]

Albert, I work within the 2nd phase of the market (the used car people :)), and sell only to those that otherwise wouldn't buy your product to begin with. The only way I, or others, will ever own those pieces is by buying from other hobbyists that feel as I do.

So for your efforts you will still have the customers that purchased the original pieces wanting your newly imported special of the month. That market segment will always exist and will always pay your asking price. I will not, so I'm not a part of your market scope. Your business goes on with or without me, with so little impact from my part that it isn't worth considering.

To add, I'm also not able to bring any of my product to market in the first year, so short term is not something I participate in, and long term shows us new product where my items are now old news. Keep inmind, I'm not buying a piece to turn around and frag in 3 months, I'm fragging excess growth, which I won't realize for at least a year.

[albert_dao]

Albert, I work within the 2nd phase of the market (the used car people :)), and sell only to those that otherwise wouldn't buy your product to begin with. The only way I, or others, will ever own those pieces is by buying from other hobbyists that feel as I do.

So for your efforts you will still have the customers that purchased the original pieces wanting your newly imported special of the month. That market segment will always exist and will always pay your asking price. I will not, so I'm not a part of your market scope. Your business goes on with or without me, with so little impact from my part that it isn't worth considering.

To add, I'm also not able to bring any of my product to market in the first year, so short term is not something I participate in, and long term shows us new product where my items are now old news. Keep inmind, I'm not buying a piece to turn around and frag in 3 months, I'm fragging excess growth, which I won't realize for at least a year.

Fair enough.

Not that my product (love and peace for the common man) depreciates in value ;)

[lorenz0]

When I first started selling red planet I was able to sell frags for $120 and they were decent sized frags. over the term of a year, prices dropped due to other hobbiests selling frags for a lower price. In the end I dropped my price down to $40 and than I got a whole bunch of interest. Fragged it a few more times, than said screw it. I just let it grow to the point where I was busting tips off cleaning the glass. I must say, that colony funded my hobby while being in school.

Point of the story is albert is right. You will never see purple monster drop in price, it seems like it is such a slow growing coral. Wicked Frags had a small colony at one point and I think he had a nub frag for sale

[Haloreef]

If I can ever get this bleeping Purple Monster to grow out the top of my tank iI will be happy, and, also it seems, long dead! That stupid thing is slow.
I could probably take a frag off of it now but I would be so freaked of loosing it i'd probably have a stroke while cutting it. So... unless something changes and this thing goes nuts and starts growing, I think it will be a long time before frags hit the market!
From me any way.
Keith.

[Bblinks]

You guy know that website looks almost identical to you know who.....the guy who supposedly have a lot of frags. I wouldn't spend that kind of money unless I am able to see the product prior to purchase. God I can almost put money on it, its him.

I call Scam.
Buyer beware.

[albert_dao]

You guy know that website looks almost identical to you know who.....the guy who supposedly have a lot of frags. I wouldn't spend that kind of money unless I am able to see the product prior to purchase. God I can almost put money on it, its him.

I call Scam.
Buyer beware.

Sexycorals is well known on Reef2reef. He's in Cali and his name is Mike.

Just FYI.

[Bblinks]

Albert. thanks for the clarification. They do have extreme similarties if you know what I mean. So really, even if we want we can't order it from there anyways.

[kien]

You guy know that website looks almost identical to you know who.....the guy who supposedly have a lot of frags. I wouldn't spend that kind of money unless I am able to see the product prior to purchase. God I can almost put money on it, its him.

I call Scam.
Buyer beware.

He who shall not be named!!!

really it just boils down to supply&demand with a heap of perceived value sprinkled in. Who in their right mind would spend thousands of dollars on a car?! Not me!! But hey, that doesn't mean it isn't worth that much to someone else who appreciates it's value. Why do people buy "organic" fruits and vegetables? Why do people buy $300 jeans?? Why do people even open their wallets?!?!?! This applies to everything with a sticker price applied to it, not just corals.

[albert_dao]

Albert. thanks for the clarification. They do have extreme similarties if you know what I mean. So really, even if we want we can't order it from there anyways.

Haha, for the record, I think his prices are a little... touched. But hey, who are we to judge dude and his willing buyers? As Kien stated, supply and demand.

[lastlight]

If you want to be the FIRST to have some fancy coral then you may have to pony up. I myself will sell frags cheap and for people I know I don't bother charging anything. That's up to me and like Brad pointed out you get to that point long after the coral is 'hot'. I like the idea of many people having a coral as opposed to a few. Nice to know if you screw up someone has you covered.

[albert_dao]

If you want to be the FIRST to have some fancy coral then you may have to pony up. I myself will sell frags cheap and for people I know I don't bother charging anything. That's up to me and like Brad pointed out you get to that point long after the coral is 'hot'. I like the idea of many people having a coral as opposed to a few. Nice to know if you screw up someone has you covered.

You? Screw up? Nawwww...

♥ @ Brett 4eva