Where dose it come from?

[CandyCane]

Lately I've been reading a lot of posts and articles about certain critters getting harvested off of coral reefs instead of being captive bread. Does anyone know where I can find a list of creatures to avoid buying so as to not support the destruction of the worlds coral reefs?

examples of a couple specifics I'm worried about is cleaner wrasses and anemones, especially large carpet anemones

[rickwaines]

These issues concern me as well. Here is a mariculture outfit out of Florida that offers a fairly good range of fish coral and invertebrate. www.orafarm.com

Rick

[reefwars]

Lately I've been reading a lot of posts and articles about certain critters getting harvested off of coral reefs instead of being captive bread. Does anyone know where I can find a list of creatures to avoid buying so as to not support the destruction of the worlds coral reefs?

examples of a couple specifics I'm worried about is cleaner wrasses and anemones, especially large carpet anemones



going to be hard to do but can be done , as stated previously ora fish are captive bred but the selection isnt huge as we still have trouble breeding certain kinds of fish.corals are easy enough and same with some types of nems,carpets would be harder to aquire that arent wild caught.....alot of lfs try to buy locally which is great but some will say they dont buy wildcaught and they do so use your own judgement.

when buying try to buy from other reefers its a safe way to guarantee less from the wild, but there are never any guarantees more arent being ordered.as time goes by in the hobby we are slowly learning how to breed and what not to harvest.


good to see that your thinking this need more like you:):)

[asylumdown]

I'm afraid if you're trying to avoid wild caught animals, this hobby will be ultimately disappointing.

There are very few species in the salt water hobby that are captive bred. As far as I know, not a single wrasse species is bred in captivity, nor are any of the tangs, or angelfish (though that might have changed recently). Really, the only animals that I know of that are reliably bred in captivity and available for sale are Bengali cardinals, clown fish, and (I think) some of the damsels.

Even captive breeding shrimp is hit and miss.

If you can find coral that you know is several generations in-tank, you're in luck there, but as far as anemones, unless it's a species that regularly propagates by splitting they're also probably all wild caught. I don't think anyone has ever bread an anemone (at least not the kinds we want in our tanks) via sexual reproduction in captivity.

I would say a good 80-90% of the fish and inverts you see in any given salt water specialty store came directly from the ocean. The longer the hobby is around, the more species we add to the captive bred list, but there are lots of species that will most likely never be successfully reared in tanks.

We can mitigate the collateral damage the hobby does by only purchasing fish from reliable vendors that were sourced from regions that we know to have 'responsible' collection methods, but there will always be a pretty high mortality rate associated with wild collection and transportation. I don't know how many fish die for each fish that ends up in someone's tank, but I bet that globally it's pretty high. The proportion of fish that successfully acclimate to home aquarium but also live out their full, natural life span will be even lower. And even if the fish does live for it's full, natural lifespan, it doesn't change the fact that every collected specimen is essentially 'dead' from a gene pool perspective.

Basically, there are ethical ramifications with keeping marine animals. Most everyone has had to come to terms with, and rationalize that to some extent to keep doing it.

In my opinion, eating tuna is as bad, or worse, than keeping a flashy hawaiian wrasse. The commercial fishing industry removes many millions more tons of animals from the ocean every year than the salt water aquarium trade ever will, and usually devastates entire ecosystems in the process. Most of us still eat seafood, and at least in this hobby the collectors (the responsible ones) have a vested interest in protecting the habitats their animals are harvested from.

[lorenz0]

only keep clownfish and aquacultured corals.

whats even worse is the survival rate in captivity. out of 40 yellow tangs that make it to a shop, how many do you think live past 6 months? I know there are alot of great reefers here and else where, but we are just a fraction of the hobby...

I agree with you. I'm honestly not buying anymore fish and after these guys pass (most have been in my care for 2-3 years) I don't plan on replacing them. Maybe some captive bred designer clowns

[gobytron]

Meh...
If you follow climate change, we should really be the last generation that actually gets to enjoy a natural reef.

Reefs and ocean across the planet are dying at exponential rates.

we are partly to blame, and if the complete halt of this hobby would make any kind of realistic difference to the big picture I'd have an easier time caring but the fact of the matter is we're a drop in a very large pond and the acidification and rise of the oceans temperature will have taken care of reefs long before we ever harvest them to death.

cynical yes.
backed by science.

[reefwars]

cynical yes.
backed by science.


haha sounds like a dogfood commercial saying lol love it:) got to agree with you though what were doing with this hobby is nothing compared to whats going on around the world and the effect THAT has on our reefs:)hard to find somewhere to stand these days:(

[lorenz0]

Meh...
If you follow climate change, we should really be the last generation that actually gets to enjoy a natural reef.

Reefs and ocean across the planet are dying at exponential rates.

we are partly to blame, and if the complete halt of this hobby would make any kind of realistic difference to the big picture I'd have an easier time caring but the fact of the matter is we're a drop in a very large pond and the acidification and rise of the oceans temperature will have taken care of reefs long before we ever harvest them to death.

cynical yes.
backed by science.

Like I have said a million times... in the past 150 years we have managed to destroy something that has lasted millions of years.

Coral reefs have been around.... since forever. Underwater life was the first to exist on this planet that we know of (precambrian).

what baffles me is the amount of people that just don't care. I hate the saying "oh well its not my problem"

[gobytron]

what do you suggest for the average individual to make a meaningful difference?
Don't take a sense of reality as a lack of caring.

[lorenz0]

Think about a difference you can make towards the world, that can be your homework for the day

[gobytron]

so...
you've got nothing?

[lorenz0]

There is alot that a single individual can do. Your so closed minded with the idea that "its global warming," HA HA HA do you know how many times this has happened. The world has evolved to make it through climate changes and has proven to last.

[gobytron]

You're talkng about natural disasters.
not a man made one.

So you still have zip huh?

[lorenz0]

I'm not talking about natural disasters. The world is always shifting and changing. Where we live it used to be a giant sea. My point is we have evolved the world around us, not the other way around. There is actually a really good dvd you should watch about a reef in fiji that had been declining in health. A few biologists came in, examined it, compared to to another close by reef that was in alot better condition. Their final conclusion came to the fact that there was a river from the island that lead into the ocean... guess what was happening upstream, a lumber factory. All of the crap that was in the water was killing off the reef. Its like constantly stiring your sand, not much will be happy in your tank.

The thread from a few days ago about taking cleaner shrimp out of the reefs and bringing them into captivity is a great example of how we are impacting the world. Over fishing is another huge impact, fisherman are not seeing the same size of fish that they used to.

Honestly if you want me to write a paper on basic geology and the changes we have seen in time I will. Everything that is going wrong can be provented. As of now, yes the human race will die off. Once we have killed everything around us it will happen. Like I said, we have managed to live for thousands of years without effects on the world. Yet in the past 150 years we have probably caused the most amount of damage to it than it has ever seen before

[gobytron]

can be prevented but wont be.
you're missing my point.

Human beings do not shape geology...lol
I thank you kindy for NOT writing a paper on the subject.
And life was taken down to microbial levels in at least one of the natural disasters you're referencing.
how would an event like that affect us?

I wonder, once that lumber mill in Fiji was discovered to be the culprit, how fast did it shut down operations to improve their ecological approach?

my moneys on it still being run in the exact same way to this day....profitably.

I'm still witing for you to tell me how I can make a difference though....

[lorenz0]

You just answered yourself. One small change could have been made, but i'm sure nothing would have happened because it would have effected the economy. Wait did I just bring that up... yes. If something is a negative effect on some sort of profit they won't do it.

Btw I haven't listed reasons due to the fact that sounding like a broken record is not me. You know them, people preach about them, but yet no one gives a damn. Its because we depend on these things so much that giving them up is out of the question. EG. cars with one driver (how about driving trucks when you don't need to)

[kien]

:pop2:

Actually I smashed up some boulders and moved them around my backyard over the weekend and changed the earths geology. Sorry I don't write books.

[lorenz0]

damn kien, you have now offset the worlds axis causing it to tilt a bit... shame on you lol

[kien]

damn kien, you have now offset the worlds axis causing it to tilt a bit... shame on you lol

Funny, women tell me that all the time, except not usually in so many words...

[lorenz0]

Depends what type of context is being used

[reefwars]

damn kien, you have now offset the worlds axis causing it to tilt a bit... shame on you lol



gobytrons answer=:lalala::violin:



lorenzos answer=:noidea::agrue:





:fencing:






sooooo guys just :kiss: and :tea: then we can all :rockon:



:peace::peace::peace:

[gobytron]

:pop2:

Actually I smashed up some boulders and moved them around my backyard over the weekend and changed the earths geology. Sorry I don't write books.

I think you mean you changed your backyards geology.
Unless you're a tectonic plate, you likely didnt alter the earths geology at all.

but hey, nothing wrong a few delusions of grandeur...:lol:

[gobytron]

You just answered yourself. One small change could have been made, but i'm sure nothing would have happened because it would have effected the economy. Wait did I just bring that up... yes. If something is a negative effect on some sort of profit they won't do it.

Btw I haven't listed reasons due to the fact that sounding like a broken record is not me. You know them, people preach about them, but yet no one gives a damn. Its because we depend on these things so much that giving them up is out of the question. EG. cars with one driver (how about driving trucks when you don't need to)

If you think I answered myself, you don get the question.
I dont feel that you or I choosing to buy only captive bred organisms will make any relative difference when the governements and the corporations they pander to take no accountability for themselves.

Even the "green revolution" you hear about is just a cash grab and a way to sell more product for more money.

Same as, IMO, charging more for captive bred aquaria.
It sounds nice on the surface, but you've still got to contend with the lumber mills of the world.

And there's alot more lumber millsout there than reef hobbyists...conscientious or otherwise.

[kien]

Last I checked my backyard was a part of the earth. I could be wrong though and may need to have this independently verified. Stay tuned..

[lorenz0]

^^^^
LOL

I stayed sober this weekend. My chemistry is off balanced with no traces of C2H5OH

Gobytron, I'm done talking to you. I'm putting my filter on

[gobytron]

Last I checked my backyard was a part of the earth. I could be wrong though and may need to have this independently verified. Stay tuned..

What an excellent point.
spoken like a true layman.

Thank you for the science lesson Bill Nye.

With such a succinct point of view, you must have a newsletter...
how can I subscribe?

Let me know if you ever do verify your facts.
something tells me it's a rare occurence over there.

[reefwars]

my tank and i share hangovers on sunday due to excessive carbon dosing



just noticed this love it lol

[kien]

What an excellent point.

Thanks!

[CandyCane]

The veiw of "one person can't make a difference" really baffles me. Think of it like recycling. If one person never recycled anything their whole life you'd prob make a pile of garbage at least 50 feet tall! Consider recycleing now and that pile becomes way way smaller! If one person starts promoting in a lfs near them the selling of only farm bread marine creatures I think they could easily make a difference. If you hear a coral is "rare" maybe you shouldnt buy it, or cleaner wrasses, without them natural ocean reefs can't survive and they do horrible in our tanks anyways. Every little thing helps

[intarsiabox]

If one person starts promoting in a lfs near them the selling of only farm bread marine creatures I think they could easily make a difference. If you hear a coral is "rare" maybe you shouldnt buy it, or cleaner wrasses, without them natural ocean reefs can't survive and they do horrible in our tanks anyways. Every little thing helps

You can walk into just about any salt water fish store and buy all the frags and captive bred clownfish you want right now. So stores are already doing something to "make a difference". It's not that stores don't want to sell lots of captive bred fish (cheaper if done on a large scale)its that they can't get them to breed in captivity(people are working on this daily). Rare fish and corals aren't usually rare because there's none to be found in the ocean, it's because they are usually deep water species so most of the collectors who only have access to snorkels and hold their breathe can't reach them. You need a trained deep water scuba diver to collect them and that won't be cheap so there is little market demand, hence rare. Most people on this board buy/trade/sell among each other so every time that happens people are doing something to save a reef. If you own a salt water fish tank then you are directly responsible for reef destruction. Even if you are sure none of your livestock or rock came from the ocean you have still put money into and supported the industry responsible. If people are actually serious about supporting the reefs they would sell every fish related item they had and get out of the hobby forever. Easy to say, hard to do. No different than driving a car instead of an SUV, you are still supporting the oil companies, haven't had to make any personal sacrifice but get to feel better of yourself and less of others. I guess the question is how big of a commitment is one willing to make to save a reef, a little one, a large one, total? I have captive bred fish and coral frags from others, does that make me more enviromentally friendly than other reef keepers? I think not.

[CandyCane]

okay sounds like you dont support someone putting effort in to saving reefs? Would you like us to all say sorry for trying?

[yellowworld]

From an ecological point of view we are all responsible for the destruction of the worlds reefs. From an ethical/moral point a view, those of us who take the effort to buy and source captive bred corals and fish or buying from other hobbyists are doing only slightly less damage then those of us who do not. But its a step in the right direction. Im not perfect I know that some of my coral is captive and some is not. However if you were to put two frags in front of me - one captive the other wild. I would take the captive, because it is now the 2nd or later generation of one wild harvested coral. With that in mind we now have to weigh the difference between wild reproduction witch is undoubtably - on a healthy reef, exponentially larger then we can achieve in our tanks, and fragging one wild coral over and over at a slower rate. Which do you place more priority on? Giving the reefs a chance to recover while fragging what we have or pulling more to furnish our tanks with. Fish are an entirely different story, until we can perfect captive breeding the ocean will have to do our work, we now need to keep our fatality rate to a minimum.

It is a fine line but one that we all must draw on our own moral code.

I would like to show my kids the beauty of a coral reef one day, that is not in my living room. If we are not carful that might not be a possibility 20 years from now.

[CandyCane]

I'm not talking about natural disasters. The world is always shifting and changing. Where we live it used to be a giant sea. My point is we have evolved the world around us, not the other way around. There is actually a really good dvd you should watch about a reef in fiji that had been declining in health. A few biologists came in, examined it, compared to to another close by reef that was in alot better condition. Their final conclusion came to the fact that there was a river from the island that lead into the ocean... guess what was happening upstream, a lumber factory. All of the crap that was in the water was killing off the reef. Its like constantly stiring your sand, not much will be happy in your tank.

The thread from a few days ago about taking cleaner shrimp out of the reefs and bringing them into captivity is a great example of how we are impacting the world. Over fishing is another huge impact, fisherman are not seeing the same size of fish that they used to.

Honestly if you want me to write a paper on basic geology and the changes we have seen in time I will. Everything that is going wrong can be provented. As of now, yes the human race will die off. Once we have killed everything around us it will happen. Like I said, we have managed to live for thousands of years without effects on the world. Yet in the past 150 years we have probably caused the most amount of damage to it than it has ever seen before

THANKYOU I think your facts are brilliant and well said!

If a fish doesnt want to breed in our tanks obviously its not the right environment for them and we shouldnt put them through being in a home they dont like just for our entertainment and collections.

I'm going to make a difference in the world because I'm taking tuns of biology courses in university and becoming a zoologist and I'm going to go shut down the lumber mill in figi so HAAAA

[intarsiabox]

okay sounds like you dont support someone putting effort in to saving reefs? Would you like us to all say sorry for trying?

Actually what I dont support is disillusioned people who own SW tanks and think they are doing the world a favor. If you actually want to support the wild reefs why do you have a fish tank at all. Do think its right to keep animals locked up in extremely tiny cages? The fact is if you have a SW fish tank then you dont support natural reefs. Why do you feel a need to keep a tank at all except for our own selfish reasons. Keeping a reef tank is the rquivilant to cutting down a few acres of rainforrest and then planting a tree at home to say that you are doing your part for the enviroment. Bottom line is, if you actually cared about wild reefs you wouldnt own a reef tank ever. We only keep them for our own selfishness. Knowone would have to try and captive breed anything if they just left everything in the wild to begin with.

[MarkoD]

honestly i think the impact of hobbyists is minimal on the ocean. no amount of fishing or fragging of while corals would even cause a dent in the population.

so if you're really concerned with saving the environment, stop driving, burping and farting

honestly, i think running metal halides probably has a bigger impact on ocean (in the long run) than harvesting fish and corals from the ocean

[CandyCane]

I dont run metal halides and if I'd known in the beginning that the majority of the critters are plucked out of the ocean I prob wouldt have started a reef tank. I have one now though so I plan on being as environmentaly aware of everthing I do with it as I can. So far every coral and the one fish I have I'm fairly sure by chance didnt come from the ocean and I plan to keep it that way.

[intarsiabox]

Ah, don't feel bad, Lisa. Everybodys doing it!:lol: Besides in 40 years we'll probably be heros because we saved a species residing in our tanks from extinction. I gotta tell ya it's also a lot more fun trading and buying among fellow reefers because you get to meet a lot of interesting people with lots of opinions!

[MarkoD]

I dont run metal halides and if I'd known in the beginning that the majority of the critters are plucked out of the ocean I prob wouldt have started a reef tank. I have one now though so I plan on being as environmentaly aware of everthing I do with it as I can. So far every coral and the one fish I have I'm fairly sure by chance didnt come from the ocean and I plan to keep it that way.

are you gonna stop driving a car? are you gonna stop using lights in your house? are you gonna stop flushing the toilet?

all of these things have a far greater impact on the environment than taking fish or corals from the ocean.

ever heard "theres plenty of fish in the sea"... literally its true

your profile says you're a LFS manager..... how is your store suppose to make money if fish arent gonna be taken from their natural environment?

[CandyCane]

It's a freshwater fish store so none of the fish are from the wild, all farm breed.

The only reason I created this post was to know if there was any lfs marine fish stores in alberta, calgary that buy their critters from reef conscious supliers. If you don't support conserving reefs please just keep your comments to yourself. If you know of any stores please msg me

[MarkoD]

It's a freshwater fish store so none of the fish are from the wild, all farm breed.

The only reason I created this post was to know if there was any lfs marine fish stores in alberta, calgary that buy their critters from reef conscious supliers. If you don't support conserving reefs please just keep your comments to yourself. If you know of any stores please msg me

i support saving reefs... but buying wild caught fish and corals is not destroying reefs.

[CandyCane]

To catch fish from the ocean they stun them with chemicals which often kill many corals. Did you actually think they could catch enough reef fish for retail using a net?

[MarkoD]

To catch fish from the ocean they stun them with chemicals which often kill many corals. Did you actually think they could catch enough reef fish for retail using a net?

Do you really think they can catch enough fish to make even the slightest impact on the population?

[CandyCane]

In some places I'm sure they still do but I believe the companies are trying harder now to preserve the reefs considering without them they wouldnt make anymore money.

I believe almost all fish from Hawaii, the west atlantic, caribbean, florida, even the philippines where chemical harvesting used to be wide spread are now using nets to catch a majority of the fish. Yay :razz:

[intarsiabox]

I
I believe almost all fish from Hawaii, the west atlantic, caribbean, florida, even the philippines where chemical harvesting used to be wide spread are now using nets to catch a majority of the fish. Yay :razz:

I don't follow you. First you're against wild caught fish and now you're cheering for them? You also just told Marko that people can't possibly catch enough fish with nets for retail sale but one hour later it's possible? A lot have places have abandoned cynide harvesting for netting a long time ago mainly due to the fact that 90% of fish caught in this practice die within 3 weeks and you can't make money selling dead fish. North American, Austrailian and European governments also have laws in place about importing fish caught in what is deemed to be an illegal manner. Hobbiests, LFS, Importers and governments are all doing something to improve sustainable reefs and have been for awhile now. This is not news to anybody in the hobby or trade.

[fishytime]

I dont believe that global warming will cause the reefs to disappear.......I think that they will just migrate........ so maybe someday will will have coral reefs in Vancouver and out on the rock.....and as far as farm raised fish.....anybody read this months articles in Coral Magazine?:wink:

[intarsiabox]

I dont believe that global warming will cause the reefs to disappear.......I think that they will just migrate........ so maybe someday will will have coral reefs in Vancouver and out on the rock.....and as far as farm raised fish.....anybody read this months articles in Coral Magazine?:wink:

I wonder how these reefs that are millions of years old survived the big climate change only 10,000 years ago known as the ice age? Not having to freeze my a$$ off in the Vancouver area oceans to do some snorkelling would be awsome! I don't think I'm ever going to turn my trucks engine off again.:lol:

[reefwars]

I dont believe that global warming will cause the reefs to disappear.......I think that they will just migrate........ so maybe someday will will have coral reefs in Vancouver and out on the rock.....and as far as farm raised fish.....anybody read this months articles in Coral Magazine?:wink:


interesting thought doug, ive been reading more and more stories over the past while of certain fish and corals found far out of their region...i guess thats what happens when things grown and evolee...kinda like the way alot of foreign things found its way to this side of the world and thrived after it survived the breakin period:):)

i never read cm's issue this month what is the jist of it anything interesting??

[reefwars]

Do you really think they can catch enough fish to make even the slightest impact on the population?



ummmm ever hear of overfishing....codfish ring a bell???????

[intarsiabox]

ummmm ever hear of overfishing....codfish ring a bell???????

I thought that was because you guys weren't clubbing enough seals?:lol:

[fishytime]

ummmm ever hear of overfishing....codfish ring a bell???????

cmon Denny you cant really compare a diver with a small net to a commercial troller????

[reefwars]

cmon Denny you cant really compare a diver with a small net to a commercial troller????


thats true, but none the less its foolish to believe that we cant over fish anything, if theres enough demand then there will b e more nets then that will lead to bigger nets then that leads to boats scraping the ocean for as many fish as they can fish in as big of nets as they can make.


besides isnt a trowller just a boat with a very big net catching everything in its path????

[CandyCane]

The entire purpose of this post was for me to learn what exactly is going on considering wildcaught fish, I'm not cheering it on by any means I'm simply learning more and thanks to you guys and your awesome brains are helping to change my opinions. Is that not the point of debates and sharring opinions is to learn an adapt your own?

[reefwars]

The entire purpose of this post was for me to learn what exactly is going on considering wildcaught fish, I'm not cheering it on by any means I'm simply learning more and thanks to you guys and your awesome brains are helping to change my opinions. Is that not the point of debates and sharring opinions is to learn an adapt your own?



it is indeed , i think the thing to remember here is things ae getting better and if we never had these discussions then the topics wouldnt get as much attention as they do:)

word of mouth is a powerfull tool to use:):)

(hear that gobytron lol theres what one person can do to save the reefs)

[abcha0s]

"The world's first coral reefs occurred about 500 million years ago, and the first close relatives of modern corals developed in southern Europe about 230 million years ago. By comparison, the Great Barrier Reef is relatively young at just 500,000 years old. The current reef's structure is much younger at less than around 8,000 years old." - Source Google "how old are the coral reefs"

The reefs as we know them will dissapear. Perhaps in our lifetime. Some coral species will survive scattered throughout the ocean and will eventually form new reefs. However, it might be a hundred thousand years or even a million years before we see anything like what we have today.

One perspective that really stuck with me is that we are not killing this planet. The planet will be just fine. What we are killing is our ability to live on this planet.

Evolution will find a way...

- Brad

[intarsiabox]

One perspective that really stuck with me is that we are not killing this planet. The planet will be just fine. What we are killing is our ability to live on this planet.

Evolution will find a way...

- Brad

+1 After we kill ourselves off by our own stupidity the planet will still be here and thriving. It may not be as it is today but the world is ever changing. I think technology has brought a lot of fear to people. Now everything is monitored, probed, tracked, faked and available globally immediately. The problem is that it wasn't before and we have nothing to compare any of the compiled data to. Only a century ago the world was made up of thousands of microcosims were nobody knew anybody else's business. Now we are dealing with living as one big happy family that knows everybody else's business.

[triggereef]

are you gonna stop driving a car? are you gonna stop using lights in your house? are you gonna stop flushing the toilet?

all of these things have a far greater impact on the environment than taking fish or corals from the ocean.

ever heard "theres plenty of fish in the sea"... literally its true

your profile says you're a LFS manager..... how is your store suppose to make money if fish arent gonna be taken from their natural environment?



In my opinion, No one should say that about our oceans. Yeah there might be alot of fish in the ocean, but what about in 5-10 years? How are all the fish supposed to repopulate fast enough to supply our fish tanks. Look at Newfoundland. They had TONS of cod at one point, but over fished it. Guess what? There is none left. There are so many fish stores around the world. Go look at the lists when a store brings in a shipment once a week. Now times that by every single store in the world that brings that many fish in. If we can even make a small impact on this by giving breeders a chance to sell their fish, Then why not? Breeders can harvest tank fulls of fish - Therefore there is that many less fish that have been taken out of the ocean. Seeing as your post gives the impression that "One person can't change the world", I find it a little ridiculous that you won't support something as small as tank raised fish. Just my opinion though.

[ReefOcean]

I commend you on your desire to be a responsible aquarist, here is a list from reef central:

Clownfish

False Percula Clownfish - Amphiprion ocellaris
Clark's Clownfish - Amphiprion clarkii
Tomato Clownfish - Amphiprion frenatus
Gold-Stripe Maroon Clownfish - Premnas biaculeatus
Cinnamon Clownfish - Amphiprion melanopus
Fire Clownfish - Amphiprion ephippium
Australian Clownfish - Amphiprion rubrocinctus
Orange Skunk Clownfish - Amphiprion sandaracinos
Pink Skunk Clownfish - Amphiprion periderion
Saddleback Clownfish - Amphiprion polymnus
True Percula Clownfish- Amphiprion percula
Sebae Anemonefish- Amphiprion sebae
Twoband Anemonefish- Amphiprion bicinctus
White-tipped Anemonefish- hybrid: Amphiprion sebae x Amphiprion polymnus

Dottybacks

Orchid Dottyback - Pseudochromis fridmani
Striped Dottyback - Pseudochromis sankeyi
Sunrise Dottyback - Pseudochromis flavivertex
Splendid Dottyback - Pseudochromis splendens
Neon Dottyback - Pseudochromis aldabraensis
Diadem Dottyback- Pseudochromis diadema
Lyretail Dottyback- Pseudochromis steenei
Golden Dottyback- Pseudochromis fuscus
Blue-Striped Dottyback- Pseudochromis springeri
Redhead Dottyback- Pseudochromis dilectus

Gobies

Neon Goby - Gobiosoma oceanops
Hybrid Cleaner Goby - Gobiosoma oceanops x Gobiosoma randalli
Yellowline Goby - Gobiosoma randalli
Goldline Goby - Gobiosoma louisae
Pink-Speckled Shrimpgoby- Cryptocentrus leptocephalus
Yellow Watchman Goby- Cryptocentrus cinctus
Luther’s Watchman Goby- Cryptocentrus lutheri
Red-Headed Goby- Elacatinus puncticulatus
Sharknose Goby- Gobiosoma evelynae

Blennies

Striped Poison-Fang Blenny- Meiacanthus grammistes
Green Canary Blenny- Meiacanthus tongaensis
Disco Blenny- Meiacanthus smithi
Canary Blenny- Meiacanthus oualanensis
Mozambique Fangblenny- Meiacanthus mossambicus
Bundoon Blenny- Meiacanthus bundoon
Forktail Blenny- Meiacanthus atrodorsalis
Blackline fangblenny- Meiacanthus nigrolineatus

Grammas

Royal Gramma- Gramma loreto
Blackcap Basslet- Gramma melacara

Cardinalfish
Banggai Cardinalfish- Pterapogon kauderni
Pajama Cardinalfish- Sphaeramia nematoptera

Angelfish

Half Moon Angelfish- Pomacanthus maculosus

Comets and Assessors

Yellow Assessor- Assessor flavissimus
Blue Assessor- Assessor macnelli
Marine Betta- Calloplesiops altivelis

Seahorses

Hippocampus abdominalis
Hippocampus barbouri
Hippocampus capensis
Hippocampus erectus
Hippocampus ingens
Hippocampus kuda
Hippocampus procerus
Hippocampus reidi
Hippocampus tuberculatus
Hippocampus whitei
Hippocampus zosterae

Jacks

Pilotfish- Gnathanodon speciosus

Snappers

Emporer snapper- Lutjanus sebae

Mobile Invertebrates

Bubble-Tipped Anemone- Entacmaea quadricolor
Minature Carpet Anemone- Stichodactyla tapetum
Red Waratah Anemone- Actinia tenebrosa
Queen Conch- Strombus gigas
Fighting Conch- Strombus alatus
Peppermint shrimp- Lysmata wurdemanni (Peppermint shrimp are not yet available, but should be soon. A few months before I wrote this, a wholesaler had some captive-bred peppermint shrimp in grow-out.)
Assorted Snails
Upsidedown Jellyfish- Cassiopea frondosa (The scientific name I give here assumes that the wholesaler uses the same common names as I do. This particular species may or may not be available. If it is not, the most likely alternative would be the Mangrove Upsidedown Jellyfish (Cassiopea xamachana).)


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1138599

I am quite certain there are many more inverts that can be captive bred including clams more anemones and some urchins.

Virtually every coral can be captive bred through fragging.

Many LFS do carry captive bread stock, but ORA stuff can be pretty pricey I have heard so many LFS still stock wild caught species quite often. The best thing you can do is just ask the LFS the tell you the captive bred critters they carry. Then you can make an informed decision. Maybe you went in for a tomato clown, but it turns out it is wild caught so you opt for the percula, which is captive bred instead..I am not sure if you are this kind of consumer but it doesn't hurt to ask the salesman at the store.

[MarkoD]

In my opinion, No one should say that about our oceans. Yeah there might be alot of fish in the ocean, but what about in 5-10 years? How are all the fish supposed to repopulate fast enough to supply our fish tanks. Look at Newfoundland. They had TONS of cod at one point, but over fished it. Guess what? There is none left. There are so many fish stores around the world. Go look at the lists when a store brings in a shipment once a week. Now times that by every single store in the world that brings that many fish in. If we can even make a small impact on this by giving breeders a chance to sell their fish, Then why not? Breeders can harvest tank fulls of fish - Therefore there is that many less fish that have been taken out of the ocean. Seeing as your post gives the impression that "One person can't change the world", I find it a little ridiculous that you won't support something as small as tank raised fish. Just my opinion though.

Fishing for food and fishing for saltwater tanks is completely different. There are probably a million times more people that eat fish than there are with saltwater tanks. And I never said I don't support tank raised fish, I actually prefer them and buy them whenever I can(cheaper and better accustomed to tank environment).... But since that's not always an option I also buy wild caught.

What the op said is that she won't buy any fish that isn't tank raised. And yes one person can't change the world. One person not buying wild caught fish won't change anything..... No matter how many people you convince not to buy wild caught fish, it won't change anything, because ultimately those who catch the fish will always profit. What's the longest a fish has ever stayed in a display at a tank? Couple weeks to a month? Someone will always come along and buy it.

Just like those who choose not to eat meat. They haven't changed a single thing.

From a morality standpoint if it makes a person feel good then great. But they probably shouldn't hold their breath expecting someone to breed all the fish they would like to get

[ReefOcean]

Fishing for food and fishing for saltwater tanks is completely different. There are probably a million times more people that eat fish than there are with saltwater tanks. And I never said I don't support tank raised fish, I actually prefer them and buy them whenever I can(cheaper and better accustomed to tank environment).... But since that's not always an option I also buy wild caught.

What the op said is that she won't buy any fish that isn't tank raised. And yes one person can't change the world. One person not buying wild caught fish won't change anything..... No matter how many people you convince not to buy wild caught fish, it won't change anything, because ultimately those who catch the fish will always profit. What's the longest a fish has ever stayed in a display at a tank? Couple weeks to a month? Someone will always come along and buy it.

Just like those who choose not to eat meat. They haven't changed a single thing.

From a morality standpoint if it makes a person feel good then great. But they probably shouldn't hold their breath expecting someone to breed all the fish they would like to get

The idea inst really to protect individual fish, it is to protect the entire coral reef. Sure, the species in aquariums are not close to being threatened, but harvesting tactics in some countries leave huge dead spots in reefs that have taken thousands, if not million years to develop. You say "somebody will always buy it" but saltwater fish are not black market organs or machine guns. If the demand for wild caught species decreases, then harvesting from the reef will decrease, it is simple economics. America has the most saltwater tanks by far, and I mean BY FAR. If even just Americans turned to purchasing readily available captive bred species from places like ORA, they would reduce the global market for wild caught species by 60 percent. If a few more countries did it like Germany, Australia and Canada, Those numbers would be even greater.

It really isn't a pipe dream, it is very feasible. Not only are captive bred species typical hardier, they are also typically bred closer to the front end customer than where wild caught species originate thus reducing logistics costs.

[RuGlu6]

You can walk into just about any salt water fish store and buy all the frags and captive bred clownfish you want right now. So stores are already doing something to "make a difference". It's not that stores don't want to sell lots of captive bred fish (cheaper if done on a large scale)its that they can't get them to breed in captivity(people are working on this daily). Rare fish and corals aren't usually rare because there's none to be found in the ocean, it's because they are usually deep water species so most of the collectors who only have access to snorkels and hold their breathe can't reach them. You need a trained deep water scuba diver to collect them and that won't be cheap so there is little market demand, hence rare. Most people on this board buy/trade/sell among each other so every time that happens people are doing something to save a reef. If you own a salt water fish tank then you are directly responsible for reef destruction. Even if you are sure none of your livestock or rock came from the ocean you have still put money into and supported the industry responsible. If people are actually serious about supporting the reefs they would sell every fish related item they had and get out of the hobby forever. Easy to say, hard to do. No different than driving a car instead of an SUV, you are still supporting the oil companies, haven't had to make any personal sacrifice but get to feel better of yourself and less of others. I guess the question is how big of a commitment is one willing to make to save a reef, a little one, a large one, total? I have captive bred fish and coral frags from others, does that make me more enviromentally friendly than other reef keepers? I think not.

+1
If any of us would really want to make a difference we would shut down our tanks. Any fish that we buy in LFS is considered dead sooner or later it will be dead anyway for whatever reason. If the fish is out of the ocean does it matter how many years it will live after that? It will not be able to be as happy in our tank as it could have been in the ocean.

[abcha0s]

Here's my philosphical rant for today. Take it as you will.

Humanity as a whole has learned to react fiercely to clear and imminent danger. We know how to fight when we can see the enemy. However, our reaction to theoretical or distant danger is entirely different. If it's not likely to affect us, we tend to do nothing at all.

There are those who choose to believe that the current trend of global warming is simply a natural cycle. I've listened to these people speak and they have very convincing arguments showing that there is no need to do anything at present. However, with a little bit of logic and critical thinking, their viewpoint quickly becomes nonsense and the real danger becomes clear. Yet we do nothing or at least very little.

I don't think that anyone would disagree that humanity is on a collision coarse with disaster. The trouble is that for the most part we are all optimists. We believe that we will change just in time to save ourselves. I believe this, or at least I want to.

In spite of the impending dangers, we haven't really figured out how to change anything that doesn't benefit us in the present. Our society is reactionary and driven by consumerism, not forward thinking and conservative planning.

It remains to be seen if humanity can really change anything of significance where sacrifice is required. We will have to sacrifice our standard of living to deal with issues around peak oil, national debt, personal debt, global warming, food shortages, and yes, perhaps even the state of our oceans and the reefs.

It doesn't matter if one person can change anything. The point is that we need to learn to enact change on a larger scale. Communities such as Canreef can influence market trends in the aquarium hobby. If we do nothing, what then?

If we cannot change things at a societal level, then we really are doomed and trying to save the reefs is nothing more than an exercise in futility.

I remain an eternal optimist, although perhaps it is only my defense mechanism and a healthy dose of pessimism would do the world some good.

In consideration of the reefs, I don't believe that the aquarium hobby is the primary threat. The problem has more to do with global warming and the chemistry of our oceans. I recently witnessed this first hand while snorkeling in the Caribbean. The reefs that I visited were almost completely dead and it had nothing to do with the aquarium industry.

For the remaining reefs, survival will depend on education and knowledge. It will depend on sustainability and economic motivators. Our hobby contributes to these things, if only on a small scale.

Unfortunately, I also believe that for our reefs, it is really too little, too late. I fear the worst and it may be that the only surviving corals will be found in captivity.

- Brad

[MarkoD]

I agree with this. My point all along is there are greater threats to the reefs than fish being caught out of them.

But I also think that just like everything in nature that the reefs will adapt to the changing conditions of the oceans. This is already being observed in the red sea where they thought the reefs were completely dead. But in fact they are thriving and adapting to the warming sea

Here's my philosphical rant for today. Take it as you will.

Humanity as a whole has learned to react fiercely to clear and imminent danger. We know how to fight when we can see the enemy. However, our reaction to theoretical or distant danger is entirely different. If it's not likely to affect us, we tend to do nothing at all.

There are those who choose to believe that the current trend of global warming is simply a natural cycle. I've listened to these people speak and they have very convincing arguments showing that there is no need to do anything at present. However, with a little bit of logic and critical thinking, their viewpoint quickly becomes nonsense and the real danger becomes clear. Yet we do nothing or at least very little.

I don't think that anyone would disagree that humanity is on a collision coarse with disaster. The trouble is that for the most part we are all optimists. We believe that we will change just in time to save ourselves. I believe this, or at least I want to.

In spite of the impending dangers, we haven't really figured out how to change anything that doesn't benefit us in the present. Our society is reactionary and driven by consumerism, not forward thinking and conservative planning.

It remains to be seen if humanity can really change anything of significance where sacrifice is required. We will have to sacrifice our standard of living to deal with issues around peak oil, national debt, personal debt, global warming, food shortages, and yes, perhaps even the state of our oceans and the reefs.

It doesn't matter if one person can change anything. The point is that we need to learn to enact change on a larger scale. Communities such as Canreef can influence market trends in the aquarium hobby. If we do nothing, what then?

If we cannot change things at a societal level, then we really are doomed and trying to save the reefs is nothing more than an exercise in futility.

I remain an eternal optimist, although perhaps it is only my defense mechanism and a healthy dose of pessimism would do the world some good.

In consideration of the reefs, I don't believe that the aquarium hobby is the primary threat. The problem has more to do with global warming and the chemistry of our oceans. I recently witnessed this first hand while snorkeling in the Caribbean. The reefs that I visited were almost completely dead and it had nothing to do with the aquarium industry.

For the remaining reefs, survival will depend on education and knowledge. It will depend on sustainability and economic motivators. Our hobby contributes to these things, if only on a small scale.

Unfortunately, I also believe that for our reefs, it is really too little, too late. I fear the worst and it may be that the only surviving corals will be found in captivity.

- Brad