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View Full Version : regular water changes thing of the past?? who doesnt do them who does????


reefwars
07-17-2011, 01:08 PM
would seem some of the nicest tanks out there dont even bother with regular water changes only if need be or in emergency cases and im thinking im joining the bandwagon im gonna mix up some in case i need it for emergency but im cutting it out of my regular routine, call me crazy call me dumb but im given er a shot :wacko:

who here doesnt bother with them and who here swears they need to be done??:agrue:


wish me luck!!!:pray:


***** for those who do water changes whats the longest youve went with out and what difference good or bad have you noticed??*****

Money pit
07-17-2011, 01:26 PM
I took my skimmer offline a couple months ago, so for me water changes are a must.I change about 3 gal/day on a system thats about 55 gal. I find the small daily w/c easier than the larger weekly ones.
I think most who are skipping w/c are using one of the low nutrient systems. like Zeo or bio pellets. So they don't have the nutrient load a tank without this would have.

daniella3d
07-17-2011, 01:30 PM
I do 20% of my 70 gallons once a month. My zoanthids are a good indication when it is needed...they shrivel and if I don't do the water change they melt away.

Even if we dose for this and that, there are trace elements that can only be replinished by water change.

Once a month is not too bad though, as I used to do 30% each day for my discus or my nitrates would be off the chart. It's less costly for freshwater of couse as I only needed RO water and that's it, but it was a pain.


would seem some of the nicest tanks out there dont even bother with regular water changes only if need be or in emergency cases and im thinking im joining the bandwagon im gonna mix up some in case i need it for emergency but im cutting it out of my regular routine, call me crazy call me dumb but im given er a shot :wacko:

who here doesnt bother with them and who here swears they need to be done??:agrue:


wish me luck!!!:pray:

Aquattro
07-17-2011, 01:55 PM
50g change in a 180g every other week. I would do more if I had a bigger mixing barrel.

reefwars
07-17-2011, 01:55 PM
was at a friends house yesterday and he has a 60g full blown reef mostly sps, no skimmer no zeo nothing fancy as its not available here uses tap water and not a water change in over a year,everything in his tank is about to grow out the top,not many fish though....im baffled really as ive always been 10% weekly faithfully....some people have all the luck i tell ya lol i also know someone else here who has a 300g runs a skimmer and doses but no water changes since set up....got me thinking for sure

reefwars
07-17-2011, 01:56 PM
I do 20% of my 70 gallons once a month. My zoanthids are a good indication when it is needed...they shrivel and if I don't do the water change they melt away.

Even if we dose for this and that, there are trace elements that can only be replinished by water change.

Once a month is not too bad though, as I used to do 30% each day for my discus or my nitrates would be off the chart. It's less costly for freshwater of couse as I only needed RO water and that's it, but it was a pain.


wow 30% every day even if it is ro only its def got to be a pain lol

Aquattro
07-17-2011, 03:57 PM
wow 30% every day even if it is ro only its def got to be a pain lol

When I had Discus I changed 90% everyday in 3 tanks. "Pain" doesn't quite describe it -lol

Compared to that, my schedule now is nothing!

I do water changes to freshen everything up. I imagine the fish living in the tank is comparable to when I go play squash. I get to the court, and 2 sweaty people leave, and in I go. And hold my breath because it's disgusting. I have to ask the club to turn on the AC each time, and once they do, it's, well, a breath of fresh air. I think this is good for the fish in a closed system, it's gives them a break from swimming around in fish urine....not to mention replacing lost elements.
Really, I've never looked at a tank and thought "gee, your tank looks like crap, you should stop doing water changes"
Not doing them, IMO, is being lazy and/or cheap. Reef keeping isn't a hobby for lazy/cheap people :)
As a note, I've been doing this 10 years now, and I have better results now, doing larger changes, than I've ever had. I'm actually considering do more frequent changes now...

doch
07-17-2011, 04:17 PM
Knowing that I was going to be moving soon, and then once I moved, knowing that the upgrade was enroute, I stopped doing water changes. The results are really weird. Some of my corals turned way brighter. Some of them turned way more dull. The biggest things that I noticed were a significant increase in the algae growing on the side of the glass, and the skimmer was definetly pulling out more crud. I think that once all is said and done, I'll be doing less frequent water changes on the upgrade. I'm thinking about 10% every other week. I'll also be running full zeo on this tank. Oh, and I switched to RO this time around.

BTW, Most of my corals are SPS. ALL of the corals that I noticed a change in are SPS. LPS and Zoas did not seem to change at all.

reefwars
07-17-2011, 05:06 PM
When I had Discus I changed 90% everyday in 3 tanks. "Pain" doesn't quite describe it -lol

Compared to that, my schedule now is nothing!

I do water changes to freshen everything up. I imagine the fish living in the tank is comparable to when I go play squash. I get to the court, and 2 sweaty people leave, and in I go. And hold my breath because it's disgusting. I have to ask the club to turn on the AC each time, and once they do, it's, well, a breath of fresh air. I think this is good for the fish in a closed system, it's gives them a break from swimming around in fish urine....not to mention replacing lost elements.
Really, I've never looked at a tank and thought "gee, your tank looks like crap, you should stop doing water changes"
Not doing them, IMO, is being lazy and/or cheap. Reef keeping isn't a hobby for lazy/cheap people :)
As a note, I've been doing this 10 years now, and I have better results now, doing larger changes, than I've ever had. I'm actually considering do more frequent changes now...



hummm good way to look at it brad, ive always said water changes is what makes a reeftank stable if you do regular changes your sure to see basic success.ive run many tanks with or without skimmers ive dosed and not dosed buty ive always done water changes sometimes twice a week but as of lately ive been seeing and hearing alot of people who dont do them have great success.ive been doing this for 10 yrs as well ,in my first years with folwlr i never ran skimmers or carbon sure i barely had rock half the time lol but water changes is what kept it all alive in my opinion.the times i didnt do water changes or neglected the tank i payed for it but with time comes knowlege and im thinking that it is possible to get away without as long as your not neglecting the tank.


im def not lazy or cheap i mean it takes about 3 mins to do a water change on my little 20g and a bucket of salt will do me a year+ but i got to thinking with all the knowlege weve learned over the years is it possible for the right person to have success or even astonishing growth by just practising good husbandry and keeping a low bio load.

theres prob other factors like source water,established lr,the corals we keep and the fish we have that play a role in whether or not to do water changes and i def wouldnt recommend it to any new people to the hobby, as a person who trys to help new people i actually push water changes on every one of them as well as carbon and skimmers.

the beauty of this hobby is that if you want to see successs then no two tanks will see it the same way i mean what works for one may not work for another and what one person does to achieve this success may not be what another would do.........i guess im more curios as a project more so than trying to save a buck if i had a 180 full on sps dominated reef i prob wouldnt even switch what i was doing in fear the result would be to dramatic but i have a 20g mixed reef with hardy lps and zoas and a very low bio load so im gonna try it as a little project ill still have saltwater on stand by in case something doesnt look right or goes wrong :)

Aquattro
07-17-2011, 05:29 PM
I guess when I speak it's from a SPS point of view. With a LPS tank, or soft corals, I might be less inclined to change as much for corals, although the fish would still have to be considered. I guess my philosophy is to keep it as close to natural as I can, given the small space. I just know that when I'm swimming down in the tropics, I don't mind getting a mouthful of water, but I sure wouldn't want tank water touching my lips :) I've pulled fish out of the ocean for my selfish enjoyment, I feel the least I can do is keep the water as clean as possible.

Now sure, it can be done. Steve will pop in here shortly and tell us how he ran his tank for over a year without changing water, and his corals had some color. But....is this optimal for all the creatures in the water? Or is it sufficient to meet our particular requirements (color, growth, whatever it is we each want from the tank). I would guess the later. A tank can and often will be successful, within the measurements of our individual requirements for success, without water changes. Will it get worse by changing water? I don't think it would. Would the fish be healthier/happier with water changes? I suspect so..

reefwars
07-17-2011, 05:34 PM
I guess when I speak it's from a SPS point of view. With a LPS tank, or soft corals, I might be less inclined to change as much for corals, although the fish would still have to be considered. I guess my philosophy is to keep it as close to natural as I can, given the small space. I just know that when I'm swimming down in the tropics, I don't mind getting a mouthful of water, but I sure wouldn't want tank water touching my lips :) I've pulled fish out of the ocean for my selfish enjoyment, I feel the least I can do is keep the water as clean as possible.

Now sure, it can be done. Steve will pop in here shortly and tell us how he ran his tank for over a year without changing water, and his corals had some color. But....is this optimal for all the creatures in the water? Or is it sufficient to meet our particular requirements (color, growth, whatever it is we each want from the tank). I would guess the later. A tank can and often will be successful, within the measurements of our individual requirements for success, without water changes. Will it get worse by changing water? I don't think it would. Would the fish be healthier/happier with water changes? I suspect so..



another good point...the fishies..... i do want whats best for them and having a small tank means they are forced to breathe the same water more frequent........so i may have to re think for their sakes as i agree with your point that if were gonna box em up might as well give them the best we can:)

Lance
07-17-2011, 06:09 PM
10% every other week.

CoralineCori
07-17-2011, 10:52 PM
We do 10-15% weekly water changes. It is necessary in order to keep our nitrates at a normal level, and all other params perfect and consistent. We always use r/o water and add fresh treated water when we have evaporation, so that helps too as we usually have to add water every other day. All of our corals are doing very well with this as well as fish and we have not had anything die (yet *crossing fingers*). You are very brave reefwars...not sure I would want to take a chance on leaving the tank go myself. Isn't water changes and stuff all part of the hobby really? I would be scared of a spike or algae infestation, phosphates or extremely high nitrates. Just sayin:mrgreen:

lastlight
07-17-2011, 11:08 PM
Used to do 10g every week on my 110g system. After doing a large 45g change the other day to reduce nutrients and whatever I can't measure I was impressed how colors and growth picked up. I'm now doing 15g every week.

viperfish
07-17-2011, 11:12 PM
Most people seem to address the water change issue from a nutrient point of view. Nutrients can be filtered out, there are many ways to do it with good equipment and media. There was an article in Coral magazine a while back asking the question "are water changes necessary" and it was concluded that normal water changes have a minimal impact on nitrates. I think the biggest challenge would be how to restore the depleted trace elements. The big three (calc, alk, and mag) are no problem but we all know there are a great deal of other elements that are essential, difficult/impossible to dose, and only seem to come from a fresh batch of reef salt. It sure would be nice to have a way of running an SPS tank without water changes but I think we're a long way from it right now.

Aquattro
07-18-2011, 12:15 AM
Agreed. I don't personally change water to dilute nutrients, my NO3 and PO4 are undetectable. It's more "the breath of fresh air", but with water, that I'm trying to provide. With it, replace some of the depleted things I probably don't even know are in the water.

MarkoD
07-18-2011, 01:17 AM
i think the only people that dont do water changes are those that carbon dose or those who have deep sand bed

lastlight
07-18-2011, 01:54 AM
Yeah I just mentioned nutrients since it sounded good. I don't know why my tank looks better with more water changes but it does and that's all the science I need to choose to do even moar.

nlreefguy
07-18-2011, 02:02 AM
wow, really? I wasn't aware of anyone locally who was doing anything even remotely like that! I'd like to meet this guy and/or see his tank! (or girl, right? What a chauvinistic remark)

was at a friends house yesterday and he has a 60g full blown reef mostly sps, no skimmer no zeo nothing fancy as its not available here uses tap water and not a water change in over a year,everything in his tank is about to grow out the top,not many fish though....im baffled really as ive always been 10% weekly faithfully....some people have all the luck i tell ya lol i also know someone else here who has a 300g runs a skimmer and doses but no water changes since set up....got me thinking for sure

nlreefguy
07-18-2011, 02:04 AM
Yeah, same here. I don't do them often enough but doing a water change has a visible benefit to my corals. I assume I'm replacing something that I didn't even know was there. My nutrients are all undetectable too.

Agreed. I don't personally change water to dilute nutrients, my NO3 and PO4 are undetectable. It's more "the breath of fresh air", but with water, that I'm trying to provide. With it, replace some of the depleted things I probably don't even know are in the water.

MMAX
07-18-2011, 02:06 AM
Used to do 20% bi-weekly on my 100 gallon and really noticed a difference in my SPS. Started dosing Prodibio and switched to 10% bi-weekly changes with the same results. I have been doing this faithfully for almost a year and the growth rates of my corals have been awesome. Before hand, I was a real lazy water changer--the only changes I did was topping up fresh water from evaporation.

reefwars
07-18-2011, 02:13 AM
wow, really? I wasn't aware of anyone locally who was doing anything even remotely like that! I'd like to meet this guy and/or see his tank! (or girl, right? What a chauvinistic remark)


haha really fred cause you know them lol small world what lol:):)

reefwars
07-18-2011, 02:27 AM
its def not a nutrient thing for me i never see a raise in nitrates or phosphates although water changes do help with the nitrates especially when i got my tank back and they were off the chart massive water changes brought them to undetectable levels in fact i find as long as you can get them to zero its quite easy to keep them that way.

i dont have a problem with feeding and a very low bio load, i have very good porous liverock and lots of different kinds of macro algae so nitrates stay at zero and i run a phosphate reactor so thats not a problem either.

so to clarify i have no sps anymore only lps and zoas a recent crash has wiped out all my sps which if that never happened i wouldnt even think about it as sps really do prefer clean water.

after brads thoughts on the fish i probably will stick with the water changes but lets keep speculating shall we lol;)

with the fish and sps thing aside do you think lps and softies benefit from weekly or regular water changes or do they prefer "dirtier water" ????


what do we really know about trace elements i mean if they are that small that we cant test for them what benefit are they really adding??


im going to use " chris88" as an example and i hope he doesnt mind but he claims to not do water changes or use ro water and we all seen the pics its amazing to say the least what happens in his tank for growth so whats everyones thoughts there??


(for the record im pro water change just been thinking lately about trying it out as a test to my self i like these kind of projects and a challenge)

Parker
07-19-2011, 03:39 PM
I change about 70 gallons a month on my 265,( Limited by the size of my two mixing barrels ) with the salt I'm using now I can see an improvement in the tank after the water change is competed. I would probably do it more often but my bioload is low, as more fish are added I'm likely to increase the water changes to every couple of weeks.

kien
07-19-2011, 04:27 PM
To me a water change is like putting on a fresh pair of underwear. It may not be necessary but it sure does feel nice! :biggrin:

ScubaSteve
07-19-2011, 05:57 PM
To me a water change is like putting on a fresh pair of underwear. It may not be necessary but it sure does feel nice! :biggrin:

Hahahha! Love it!

I swear by my water changes, especially on my 40g (w/ skimmer). Typically I do 15% weekly but have been for the past few weeks doing 30% weekly (had a small cycle after the rebuild) and have noticed a pretty big difference. I have also been carbon dosing for over a month and it's helped a lot but I still do the water changes, though I find the dosing gives me a little more leeway in how frequently I do changes. I do the changes more for the general wellbeing of the tank rather than the whole trace element bunk.

I hate baths because I feel like I am stewing in my own filth... Its kinda the same for my fish and corals, so I try to do it often.

Now I'm going to go change my water and me undies! Gotta love that fresh feelin'!

Lampshade
07-19-2011, 05:58 PM
I ran my tank for 6 months with no water changes when i first set it up, worked great. SPS growing like crazy, everything seemed to be balanced. Then my skimmer broke for 2 days shortly after adding some new baserock.... Hair algae explosion. I must have had a nice balance going on, but it was a teeter totter, and i broke it. So anyways, i'm back to changing water like my old system, and the colors my coral are showing are better than ever. It took close to 4 months to get the hair algae under control. I now change 15 gallons every 10 days. I was against it for so long, i don't know why. I don't have a water change station, i drag rubbermaids in from the garage, and empty my RO resivior, mix, cleanup, etc, still only takes 20 min's. I don't even know why i didn't do them originally. And 15 gallons every 10 days is only about $10 a month is salt, by far not the priciest part of my tank(stupid halide electrical bills...).

Seems like everything's happier with that bit of a refresher every little bit.

I've seen some amazing tanks that don't do water changes(One TOTM on here recently)

chris88
07-19-2011, 06:44 PM
I don't do them but i used to do 20% every two weeks. I havent done them in a year now and i notice no difference in my sps or zoas. I am not saying i am not going to ever do one again, but i will let me tank tell me when something is going wrong.

Doug
07-19-2011, 10:25 PM
To me a water change is like putting on a fresh pair of underwear. It may not be necessary but it sure does feel nice! :biggrin:

:lol:


I do about 30%/week. Mind you my tanks only 20g. :mrgreen:

Reefer head
07-19-2011, 11:57 PM
hmm i do 50g a month on my 300g fowlr system seems to work just great for me !!!!

MKLKT
07-20-2011, 12:01 AM
I've done 2 water changes total in one year and they were only partials (~20%). I've had to start dosing because some of my corals have gotten massive but otherwise my setup has been great. I just went away for a week and had some neighbourhood kids feed my fish and it looks great still, no horror story this time.

StirCrazy
07-20-2011, 11:51 AM
Now sure, it can be done. Steve will pop in here shortly and tell us how he ran his tank for over a year without changing water, and his corals had some color.

don't need to now, you already did. :mrgreen: but some color ..... come on :rolleyes:

anyways I don't say you can go with out one but I definatly don't say you need to do it every month or week for that matter, if you have a good set up that is overskimmed, ect then you need to be the judge. do a couple at one month, then try two months for a couple then three months while keeping notes of different things as you go. this is what I did, and yes I did go a year once and that was sucessfull but shortly after that I had the heater incident and the sand bed removal.

Steve

Gripenfelter
07-20-2011, 02:15 PM
I used to do 6% weekly water changes but my new skimmer pulls about 2 litres of dirty dark green gunk out of the tank daily so I'm always topping off with about 2.5 L of water a day.

So now I do 3% weekly water changes. Been about a month. Everyone still seems happy.

megatrev62
07-25-2011, 07:34 AM
Hello all.Have had a 75 up and running for about 10 months. I have just started using NSW for changes(afterall we're surrounded by it!!!) The results have been great. Only have some soft corals and just venturing into that area. But the NSW is the way to go. No more salt for me. The tank just appears more vibrant. I advocate waterchanges big time, however I do 20% bi-weekly or so. Hello to all newfs here, we need more stores lol. I go on reefcentral often and kkinda forgot about joining here lol. Cheers

reefwars
07-25-2011, 10:13 AM
Hello all.Have had a 75 up and running for about 10 months. I have just started using NSW for changes(afterall we're surrounded by it!!!) The results have been great. Only have some soft corals and just venturing into that area. But the NSW is the way to go. No more salt for me. The tank just appears more vibrant. I advocate waterchanges big time, however I do 20% bi-weekly or so. Hello to all newfs here, we need more stores lol. I go on reefcentral often and kkinda forgot about joining here lol. Cheers



yay another newf:) where yua too on the rock??:welcome:

ProReef
07-25-2011, 06:34 PM
I think this is good for the fish in a closed system, it's gives them a break from swimming around in fish urine....not to mention replacing lost elements.

Not doing them, IMO, is being lazy and/or cheap. Reef keeping isn't a hobby for lazy/cheap people :)



Dido! Cheers Ronnie:biggrin:

Wanderer
07-25-2011, 11:23 PM
my 18 gallon which has a slim skim nano gets a 5 gallon water change with Royal nature once per week

asylumdown
07-25-2011, 11:30 PM
Hello all.Have had a 75 up and running for about 10 months. I have just started using NSW for changes(afterall we're surrounded by it!!!) The results have been great. Only have some soft corals and just venturing into that area. But the NSW is the way to go. No more salt for me. The tank just appears more vibrant. I advocate waterchanges big time, however I do 20% bi-weekly or so. Hello to all newfs here, we need more stores lol. I go on reefcentral often and kkinda forgot about joining here lol. Cheers

*sigh* to live near a source of NSW. I once brought 4 litres of it home from BC in two pop bottles, but taking in to account the plane ticket and the fuel the plane burned to fly it over the mountains, it was probably the most expensive 4% water change I've ever done.

MarkoD
07-26-2011, 12:15 AM
i wish i could someday have a tank plumbed directly into the ocean......

whatcaneyedo
07-26-2011, 12:19 AM
I'm trying to cut back but I still use about two buckets of salt ever three months. I mostly do micro water changes when I get rid of frags and larger ones when I need to fill my QT tank.

Aquattro
07-26-2011, 12:26 AM
On the use of NSW...we have a guy in town here that has a 2000g tank, and for economical reasons, used to use NSW collected locally. his tank did not do well. I recall testing the water here a few years back, it was low in salinity, low in pH and both Ca and alk. I didn't test for PO4, but suspect with local run-off, that might have been high. Along with the risk of pollutants (oil, gas, etc), I'd personally not use NSW.

reefwars
07-26-2011, 12:35 AM
On the use of NSW...we have a guy in town here that has a 2000g tank, and for economical reasons, used to use NSW collected locally. his tank did not do well. I recall testing the water here a few years back, it was low in salinity, low in pH and both Ca and alk. I didn't test for PO4, but suspect with local run-off, that might have been high. Along with the risk of pollutants (oil, gas, etc), I'd personally not use NSW.


i was using it when i set up my 60g when i first moved home on this side of the woods i only found it low in salinity it was measuring i believe at 1.013 id have to look back to see but cal and alk werent off much.was a pita getting it though lol

foxfishfan
07-26-2011, 01:19 AM
Wow,it sure would be nice to never have to do another water change, but if you have a fair number of fish then it gets pretty gross with poop collecting at the bottom of the tank.

Wanderer
07-26-2011, 02:52 AM
i wish i could someday have a tank plumbed directly into the ocean......

not all its cracked up to be, you end up witha bunch of critters you never intended on having unless you have a very good sand filter.

intarsiabox
07-26-2011, 03:16 AM
not all its cracked up to be, you end up witha bunch of critters you never intended on having unless you have a very good sand filter.

Canada is also surrounded by cold water and a lot of those critters die rapidly at tropical temperatures, thus polluting the tank. The water near the shore is also the most polluted.

MarkoD
07-26-2011, 03:50 AM
I'd never do it in Canada. I'll one day live in hawaii

reeferious
07-26-2011, 04:40 AM
i used to do bi-weekly 60 gal change with my 350 gal setup and everything was more or less just blooming. started following a lazier routine of vodka dosings, 2 part dosings and regular macro algae harvesting. everything look as fine as b/4. so i figure if your cal, kh, pot levels are fairly consistent and your nitrate and phosphate are insignificant you can get away with extened periods between waterchanges. thought about using our local georgia strait water source but then headache with filtering it clean and transporting back home outweight cost to make your own salt water. just my 2 pennies thought.

megatrev62
07-26-2011, 08:00 PM
yay another newf:) where yua too on the rock??:welcome:

From Town. You?

gobytron
07-26-2011, 08:43 PM
I'm quite sure sunshine coasters and those on the gulf islands could make this work.

intarsiabox
07-26-2011, 11:29 PM
I'd never do it in Canada. I'll one day live in hawaii

Last time I was in Hawaii, every retired person I met seemed to have been from Canada now living there.:lol: I'd love to end up there to some day. Not too hot, never cold and usually only minor storms, hard to beat that.

MarkoD
07-26-2011, 11:33 PM
Last time I was in Hawaii, every retired person I met seemed to have been from Canada now living there.:lol: I'd love to end up there to some day. Not too hot, never cold and usually only minor storms, hard to beat that.

No misquitos either. My parents just bought a condo there so I'll be spending 3 weeks there in a couple months

intarsiabox
07-27-2011, 12:48 AM
No misquitos either. My parents just bought a condo there so I'll be spending 3 weeks there in a couple months

Yeah I noticed that too! Even being out in the middle of the ocean I can still go to Walmart and buy things cheaper their! What island is the condo on?