Drop Off Reef Tank [Archive] - Canreef Aquatics Bulletin Board

Gripenfelter

07-15-2011, 02:19 PM

I know most of you guys don't know me but I like to go overboard. Over engineer, buy the biggest, baddest, most insane, fastest, most horsepower, etc. and then hide the VISA bills from the wife. :mrgreen:

So anyways, I'm looking to build a drop off reef tank. People have had a 50-50 sucess rate with them. Some of them turn out great and other leak or burst. This is still at the BS stage. Meaning more talk than anything else. Looking to build in winter.

http://ficklewaters.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/grosjean.jpg

Like the above tank WITHOUT the seam.

http://www.marineaquariumsa.com/imagehosting/9114bebd749ad18d.jpg

http://www.marineaquariumsa.com/imagehosting/9114bebd749b7dc3.jpg

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2009Q4/room_1.jpg

The last one was made of acrylic and burst at the seam after 12 hrs.

Has anyone here made one of these?

Also thinking about possibly just building a regular rectangular aquarium and then making a shelf inside to duplicate the above. Then just cover the side of the aquarium with part of the stand so it still produces the L-shape.

Otherwise if I go L-shaped like the above tanks and not rectangular then I would incorporate bracing into the stand and have metal bracing at the top as well.

Thinking about 180 gallons. 6 ft long, 2 feet wide, shelf area will be 18" high and 4 ft long, drop off will be 3 ft deep.

Discuss/critique/tell me I'm crazy/go nuts.

don.ald

07-15-2011, 02:32 PM

Also thinking about possibly just building a regular rectangular aquarium and then making a shelf inside to duplicate the above. Then just cover the side of the aquarium with part of the stand so it still produces the L-shape.

this was my first thought when i saw the pics; but, i think you can do it with a real drop-off. go for it. i'm watching.:mrgreen:

monocus

07-15-2011, 02:41 PM

i would go with a rectangular,and build a viewable cave area

Skimmerking

07-15-2011, 02:42 PM

what about doing it in Plywood. and have a see through hole on the left side or right side. or the viewing will still be the front. and the drop off can have ahuge oval shape view

lastlight

07-15-2011, 02:47 PM

I was thinking the same with the shelf but with that empty void who knows how that affects the overall structure with water pushing down on it? I'd have inner eurobracing everywhere and build the stand edges a bit higher to hide it. So build the rectangle, inner brace it all then construct the shelf by building a hollow box inside and inner brace that. I'm no engineer (I'm a drop-out engineer tho lol) but that sounds do-able.

steve fedyk

07-15-2011, 03:07 PM

I saw a build on rc last summer. He cut the glass on a flow jet(water) and looked pretty cool. I would like to see one built here.

lastlight

07-15-2011, 03:14 PM

If you don't do the rectangle first technique I'd personally have it built on-site so the tank conforms to your stand better and doesn't get moved around. Then of course inner brace where possible.

Strickland_673

07-15-2011, 03:19 PM

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1754535&page=11

This guy built his own and as far i can see it's still up and running. same tank from second picture in first post. just the build thread.

Gripenfelter

07-15-2011, 03:47 PM

I want to try the L-shaped tank first. If it isn't do-able then I'll do the rectangular box.

Here are some more ideas for the tank (not my diagrams).

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv9/Mugen101/Reef%20Aquarium/DropOff.jpg

It doesn't use a sump or skimmer. I would however use both a sump and skimmer.

StirCrazy

07-15-2011, 03:51 PM

any time you have 90 degree inside corner cuts your going to have a week spot in glass.

I would suges to use a normal tank (but taller than normal) and partition off part of the inside to make a shelf. don't seal this off but leave a way to get into it and put a tone of rubble and rock in there to make a pod haven, just make sure that fish can't get in. this will increase tank load cabability due to the extra live rock (which can be crammed in there and filled to the max as it doesn't have to look good) and also supply food for other fish. just make sure you make it so you do have some flow going through that area. so maybe use egg crate to make the partition and then find a way to make it look good.

Steve

lastlight

07-15-2011, 05:53 PM

If he wants a rock face to the drop-off I'm not sure how you'd make such an area accessible. The idea personally scares me but if nothing went wrong you'd have an amazing hidden bio-filter and a nice dispersed flow coming through the rock face. Standard egg-crate would not be protective enough as firefish, gobies, blennies etc would all make it thru.

Gripenfelter

07-15-2011, 05:57 PM

Nice idea but not seeing that as do-able. Too many variables for trying to keep fish out of that area. Plus doing water changes for 360 gallons...ugh. I'd rather seal off that area. But then reinforcing it means the shelf would have to be able to hold 1000 lbs.

ScubaSteve

07-15-2011, 06:20 PM

I've always wanted to do the triple biotope design. I like Steve's ideas to make the under-shelf area a pod heaven. You could do a NPS section at the bottom of the reef wall and do a quad biotope of there were enough pods.

That being said I am also one for a challenge and believe in tackling a project to achieve the design and aesthetic you want. I agree that building the tank on-site would be the better way to go. I don't know how much free time you have or how willing you are to be innovative but I'd say just take a crack at it and stress test it to see how it holds up. I don't think you'd be blowing the glass, only the seams, so you could use use the glass if something happened. If you found some cheap glass somewhere you could try a few designs and if the seams blew, you could try again until you found something that works ( do this in the garage or yard of course). I've used thick acrylic before for joints that take a lot of stress... Not for tanks but the idea is the same. I built some equipment at work that uses 3/4" acrylic bonded to 1/2" to get a big, fat seam. It has taken 1.5 tons dropping on it almost daily for over year with no cracks or leaks. You'd only need to do this for the critical seams.

mark

07-15-2011, 06:57 PM

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv9/Mugen101/Reef%20Aquarium/DropOff.jpg

Type of tank I've always thought was interesting was the beach/water for mud-skippers. With your layout, mud-skippers and a reef.

Thinking about the Aquagiant tanks and their curves corners, wonder what a custom from them would cost.

Gripenfelter

07-15-2011, 09:17 PM

MarkoD

07-18-2011, 08:44 PM

just get a deep tank. make a cliff where you want a drop off one one side and fill the rest with sand and rock or cement.

then cover the filled in area with paneling thats part of the stand

MarkoD

07-18-2011, 08:56 PM

i was thinking of doing this by making a syrofoam base painted with drylok

back in my freshwater days, i use to make styrofoam 3d backgrounds..... so why not do the same thing to raise the floor on a section of the tank?

like this

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn62/uberbimmer_rx/tank.jpg?t=1277487390

sphelps

07-18-2011, 11:27 PM

I'm going to agree with most and say build a standard tank, install a baffle like you would in a sump and then fill the one portion with base rock and use your stand to conceal that section. It will cost less to build it this way plus it'll be stronger and nobody will know the difference if you built the stand right.

phi delt reefer

07-18-2011, 11:58 PM

Definitely not a diy tank project unless u work with glass or acrylic regularly.

Troy lee on reef2reef had one. Check out his build thread for he did have some learnings to share with anyone else trying the same thing.

Acrylic would be the best option for it doesn't share a weak point like glass would.

That stand will need to be perfect as well for it'll be easy to create pressure points if it's not perfect.

Go pro on a build like this or get some like a marine land deep dimensions standard tank and do what others mentioned above.

Gripenfelter

08-01-2011, 10:56 PM

So my wife is semi-onboard with the new tank idea.

But she likes large angels like the moorish idol, emperor angels, triggers, etc. So here is the NEW DESIGN.

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l375/Grip_Singh/splittank.jpg

One side will be reef safe livestock. The other side will be sharks, rays, large angels, etc.

Yes it will be over 300 gallons now lol.

Feel free to critique.

Myka

08-01-2011, 11:18 PM

Woah! That's freakin awesome! As much as I hunt around all over the place looking for info, I actually haven't come across one of these designs before. VERY cool.

Also thinking about possibly just building a regular rectangular aquarium and then making a shelf inside to duplicate the above. Then just cover the side of the aquarium with part of the stand so it still produces the L-shape.

Good idea. You might have inspired me! Damn you! :p

fishytime

08-01-2011, 11:27 PM

check this thread out...... he revised the design of the tank to include a drop on page two......its gonna be 5' deep!:surprise: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=76927

Gripenfelter

08-02-2011, 02:52 AM

MarkoD

08-02-2011, 02:58 AM

I've been trying to figure out a way of just doing a rectangular tank and building a shelf in the middle. Unfortunately there is no viable way to support the shelf without dumping in 200 lbs of sand and sealing it.

Looks like I will be trying the L-shaped glass.

why not build a wood structure to support the shelf and seal it in?

wood supports many whole tanks. im sure it'll be able to support a section within a tank

Gripenfelter

08-02-2011, 01:38 PM

why not build a wood structure to support the shelf and seal it in?

wood supports many whole tanks. im sure it'll be able to support a section within a tank

Hmm. :idea: :razz:

Myka

08-02-2011, 02:15 PM

Anything filled with air is going to want to float and will be trying to leak from both the wet side and the dry side. I was thinking you could build an L shape out of glass to make the edge, and then where it would meet the tank at the top on the short end you could leave a 1" gap (or better yet leave 6" so you could get your hand in there if needed to seal up a leak or something). Does that make sense? I don't know how to use any drawing programs so that doesn't help.

Gripenfelter

08-02-2011, 03:13 PM

I was thinking you could build an L shape out of glass to make the edge, and then where it would meet the tank at the top on the short end you could leave a 1" gap (or better yet leave 6" so you could get your hand in there if needed to seal up a leak or something). Does that make sense? I don't know how to use any drawing programs so that doesn't help.

Not quite sure what you mean sorry.

Myka

08-02-2011, 03:27 PM

Dangit. Ok...let me try again. Take your stock rectangular tank. Say you're looking at the tank from the front. The ledge will be on the right, and the drop will be on the left. Add the vertical piece for the drop. Add the horizontal piece for the ledge, install it on top of the vertical piece running towards the right. Cut it 6" short so that there is a 6" gap between the ledge and the right pane of glass on the aquarium. Now make another vertical piece that sits on top of the right end of the ledge and goes to the surface of the water or top of the glass aquarium. If you wanted (just for example) you could pour sand in the open part on the right side that would go down under the ledge.

It's like building a set of stairs...if you know the lingo for that. You would be installing TWO rises, and ONE run within the stock aquarium. The second run (the top one) would be left open, and would be at the tank's surface.

That help at all?? :lol:

Myka

08-02-2011, 03:42 PM

Gripenfelter

08-03-2011, 07:09 PM

Ok, I actually managed to draw it in Google Sketch Up, but I can't get it into a file type that Photobucket will allow me to upload.

EDIT: Ok, I figured that out too. Jeez, my lucky day!!

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Dropofftank.jpg

You would need some bracing under the open edge of the drop (the left side) between the bottom of the tank and the left end of the horizontal piece.

Now I'm picking up what you're laying down. :p

Yeah that's a good idea if I plan on storing something in there.

Still arguing...err..."DISCUSSING" with local shops how to build the shelf and support it.

lastlight

08-03-2011, 07:21 PM

What I do like about that idea is there is water on both sides. I think if that void down there is empty it's going to be riskier. I wouldn't even bother having that compartment circulate with the main tank. I suspect that would lead to all sorts of other issues with nutrient buildup etc. I'd fill it with ro/di (in case it ever did slowly seep) and just seal it up. Balancing the forces on both sides would be my main goal.

fishytime

08-03-2011, 10:11 PM

have the glass cut "L" shaped and the then have the panes tempered.......if the stand properly supports the tank then the glass will hold on that inside corner of the "L"

dave_C

08-03-2011, 10:27 PM

For an L-shaped tank I got two quotes.

$6600 in acrylic.
$3200 in glass.

If I have someone build me one. Also no warranty lol.

Gonna weld up a steel stand myself out of 2" square tubing and cover in plywood. Then I'll look at building the tank myself lol.

just for fun i sent in a request for a quote to see how much it would cost to have the two pieces cnc'ed and tampered. It should be interesting to see what they come back with:mrgreen:

fishytime

08-03-2011, 10:41 PM

just for fun i sent in a request for a quote to see how much it would cost to have the two pieces cnc'ed and tampered. It should be interesting to see what they come back with:mrgreen:

hope I didnt step on your toes Dave.......I had been sitting here waiting for you to pipe up and say something:wink:

dave_C

08-04-2011, 12:44 AM

hope I didnt step on your toes Dave.......I had been sitting here waiting for you to pipe up and say something:wink:

nope none at all lol, i was just sending in my to piece to get quoted so figure why not just ask:wink:

Gripenfelter

08-04-2011, 03:50 AM

Definitely doing tempered glass. Waiting on a glass quote from PPG otherwise going with a local company.

ScubaSteve

08-04-2011, 10:28 PM

Hey, here's a more extreme version of your tank with some build pics: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/riveraquarium

mark

08-04-2011, 10:34 PM

Hey, here's a more extreme version of your tank with some build pics: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/riveraquarium

good find

MarkoD

08-04-2011, 11:13 PM

Yeah why not do what they did.... Build the floor out of wood and put glass on the viewing sides

Gripenfelter

08-05-2011, 02:10 PM

StirCrazy

08-05-2011, 03:14 PM

Wood flexes and would be more prone to leaks. Even some acrylic tanks flexed and burst at the seam of that 90 degree bend. Glass doesn't flex (as much).

Here's a link to someone's acrylic tank that burst.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=322764&page=10 (scroll half way down)

that has noting to do with flexing and needing to be framed. plexi is not more prone to leak, if you look through that thread you will find out exactly why it burst.. very very pour workmanship. there were more air bubbles than actual glued material, they would have failed on any tank shape. this is a typical thread of a person building a tank from a hobby builder who started a company and took a job way over his skill level and failed to turn out a good product. it was very pour joints and overall pour workman ship, joints were not aligned ect.. I have done quite a lot of acrylic work, and made water features that are 6 foot tall, but I would have never taken on a take that size and shape using that thick of acrylic with out starting with smaller practic tanks to sort out the issues that I would encounter.

with a tank like that there is no more pressure on any given joint that there would be with a rectangle tank, presure is a function of hight only, the thing you are looking out for is flaws in the 90 degree corner area which could cause a week spot, so for glass tempering normaly takes care of this, acrylic if glues and cut properly won't have this issue.

Steve

Gripenfelter

08-05-2011, 03:23 PM

that has noting to do with flexing and needing to be framed. plexi is not more prone to leak, if you look through that thread you will find out exactly why it burst.. very very pour workmanship. there were more air bubbles than actual glued material, they would have failed on any tank shape. this is a typical thread of a person building a tank from a hobby builder who started a company and took a job way over his skill level and failed to turn out a good product. it was very pour joints and overall pour workman ship, joints were not aligned ect.. I have done quite a lot of acrylic work, and made water features that are 6 foot tall, but I would have never taken on a take that size and shape using that thick of acrylic with out starting with smaller practic tanks to sort out the issues that I would encounter.

with a tank like that there is no more pressure on any given joint that there would be with a rectangle tank, presure is a function of hight only, the thing you are looking out for is flaws in the 90 degree corner area which could cause a week spot, so for glass tempering normaly takes care of this, acrylic if glues and cut properly won't have this issue.

Steve

Wanna build me a tank? :p

Gonna start the stand when I get back from vacation at the end of August.