Tom's Aqua Lifter question

[MKLKT]

I'm wondering if anyone has an answer to my query...

I'm in the process of setting up an ATO so that I can make life easier for myself and was going to snag a JBJ controller and an Aqua Lifter to go with it. My situation is that my reservoir would have a waterline that is above the waterline of the sump so I need to know if the Aqua Lifter creates a syphon while OFF which would cause the sump to be flooded. Does anyone know if this is the case or know of any other pump/powerhead that can be used that blocks flow while off?

I've tried searching to no avail.

[Maverick00]

I use one for my CPR overflow. As far as i know it has a check valve of some sort. Ive unplugged it while the cpr was running and it didnt allow any air back into the overflow. I wouldnt think itd allow a siphon of water either but someone else should confirm this first...

[Maverick00]

i played around with the pump and was easily able to blow air backwards through it. Judging by this id probably add some sort of check valve between the pump and the ato outlet line.

[MKLKT]

The problem is that it would be used to pump into the sump which would require the check to be in the same direction as the intended flow, it's not a backflow issue. The pump essentially is the top off, the ATO only says OFF/ON.

[scherzo]

Mine would sometimes continue the siphon.

Why don't you out the return line up to the display tank. Maybe in the drain section.

[Maverick00]

The problem is that it would be used to pump into the sump which would require the check to be in the same direction as the intended flow, it's not a backflow issue. The pump essentially is the top off, the ATO only says OFF/ON.

sorry i somehow overlooked that.

[Maverick00]

Im curious now if the tunze ato would work in your type of scenario.

[syncro]

You could use a gravity ATO. Simply plumb a 1/4" airline hose from the freshwater to a float valve (not float switch) in your sump.

[don.ald]

i dont think the aqua lifter is going to work with the ATO system. the pump is so slow that the system will time out and shut down. you need a stronger pump. you can put the aqua lifter on a timer and run it. eliminating the ATO.

[mike31154]

You could use a gravity ATO. Simply plumb a 1/4" airline hose from the freshwater to a float valve (not float switch) in your sump.

Bingo to this. With raised reservoir you won't need any electrical gizmos, just a simple mechanical float valve. Simple & much less to go wrong.

[MKLKT]

Bingo to this. With raised reservoir you won't need any electrical gizmos, just a simple mechanical float valve. Simple & much less to go wrong.

I had originally thought this but also through researching it all it seems that any type of ATO is quite prone to errors whether gravity feed or electrically controlled. I'm thinking I'm just going to build a higher shelf and have it gravity only.

[mike31154]

Like I said, simpler is better for ATO and gravity feed is about as simple as it gets. The only real failure scenario is the mechanical float valve. With any kind of electrical set up you're adding more failure modes. Every pump, electric float switch, controller etc. can each fail and even a power outage will put it out of commission. The trick is to size your reservoir reasonably so that it will keep your system topped up for about a week (or however long you need when on vacation) so in the event of float valve failure (open) you won't have a major flood or change in water paramaters. The other failure mode of course is that the float valve gets plugged & doesn't top up. I run a variation of the gravity feed with an air pump on a timer pressurizing a glass container to push the water through a mechanical float to my display since I don't have a sump and not feasible to have elevated reservoir. If I could I would. My improvised system has worked trouble free for well over two years.

[syncro]

Just wanted to give credit to mike31154 for the gravity ato - i heard it from him first.

[MKLKT]

Got the gear for a gravity ATO, although I have to DIY the reservoir with a connector so I'll post the results once I've got it up and running. Thanks for the input guy/gals.

[MKLKT]

Made my ATO with an Eshopps float valve and quick connect nozzle from J&L and a trash basket + garden hose "bulkhead" from Walmart. Sealed the bulkhead with RTV sealant and after letting it cure I had a grand total of a day to set it to the right level and test for leaks before I left for a week to Fort St. John.

The water level in the final baffle drops about a gallon when the skimmer turns on during the night cycle and if I put the float at the standard "good" level it causes it to over-fill during the night so I put the float about 1" lower than what the optimal amount is. Had the neighbours feed the fish and top up the ATO bucket while I was gone. I can happily say that it worked perfectly! I think it cost $30-$40 to make and holds 20Gal of top-up if necessary. All the critters are alive and well including a handful of new additions from the day before I left.

[Lampshade]

Nice setup, seems to have worked out well.

Sounds close to what i have, walmart buckets and a couple kent float valve's. I have mine being filled with an RODI, so I added mine at a height pretty close to the sump, enough that if my tank float valve fails open (which may happen one day with salt buildup, etc.) The resivior bucket will only fill until the sump is at near max, the height of the float in the Resivior. Only issue with this is that my RO unit has to stay on(or be turned on once a day) since the resivior level's only a few inches above the fill level in the tank.

[MKLKT]

Here's what the ATO setup looks like, I wrote 20 gal above but I meant quarts:

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd463/MKLKT/WP_000202.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd463/MKLKT/WP_000205.jpg

[mike31154]

Very fine job, simple, functional. Did you DIY the acrylic bracket for the float? If so, that's amazing & a detailed description/photos of that process would be greatly appreciated. It's much more elegant & adjustable than my own effort.

[Coleus]

I am using the Tom Aqua lifter for my ATO with check valve to prevent back syphon. It is still going strong for 2 years

[MKLKT]

Very fine job, simple, functional. Did you DIY the acrylic bracket for the float? If so, that's amazing & a detailed description/photos of that process would be greatly appreciated. It's much more elegant & adjustable than my own effort.

The bracket comes with the Eshopps float valve, the only issue I had with it is that the bracket U isn't wide enough for even a stock Allglass edge, I had to use a box cutter to cut a tab out of the lip. Other than that the bracket is awesome, easy to adjust and holds really solid with nylon bolts.

[intarsiabox]

That's a slick looking float valve! Couldn't find it on Eshopps website but I see JL's sells it. Looks like I need to piece together an order over $100 for free shipping.

[MKLKT]

That's a slick looking float valve! Couldn't find it on Eshopps website but I see JL's sells it. Looks like I need to piece together an order over $100 for free shipping.

If you get the float from J&L, that white quick-connect (attached to the bucket) is a separate item, it connects to a standard garden hose fitting which is what I bulk-headed into the bucket.

[intarsiabox]

If you get the float from J&L, that white quick-connect (attached to the bucket) is a separate item, it connects to a standard garden hose fitting which is what I bulk-headed into the bucket.

Thanks for LMK!

[mike31154]

Here's a photo of my float set up. It's a furnace humidifier float available at most hardware stores. A rotary dial on the top of the valve allows for some amount of level adjustment. Bracket is DIY, certainly not as slick as the Eshopps rig, but works fine. I've recently shortened the valve by cutting one chamber off the end. Makes it less intrusive looking in the display and still does the job.

https://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1po4MlEJgvvkZ0OZ5k83BJUYJBXHJ2lKqxexbXR-HZZh47XZpMBetVQa1Cxpq__rBrnBjJJ7MJptI/FloatValve.JPG?psid=1

And since we're at it, here's my top off container. 7 gal glass wine carboy pressurized with a small air pump on a timer. Good for about 7 days of top off.

https://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pj2ZGKSp9lnF65r_R8g1UDk5CQeQ7Qb9Rw0_Rwwi5gZQrZjx 1duxkwz5aCsm6L5L56lh3CIvxX9s/Carboy.JPG?psid=1

[MKLKT]

Reminds me... gotta make some more beer. :)