Pre-planning for upgrading the 8'er, some input on LEDs needed

[The Grizz]

So I am planning a fairly small upgrade to my 165 gal 8'er...................and YES, I can hear some of you saying..........WTF! Here he goes again!!

But when a good deal comes my way............I just can't pass it up:biggrin:

I have made the decision to get the glass cut for a 8' x 2' x 2' INSIDE DIMENSIONS.........roughly a little shy of 240 gals.

Not sure on the sump yet but it will be a much better design then my 165. After my wife seen pics of Mike' 8'er in Manitoba she wants me to build a complete wall unit that will be 12' long x 8' tall. I have a skimmer I really like, 2 MR1 reactors for Vertex Bio Pellets & Carbon, Profilux 2ex controller, probes, power bars & doser & more then enough pumps to provide mass flow but................

My biggest decision is going to be lighting........I would like to go with LED's but don't know much about them. How many LED's would I need? Do I DIY or buy fixtures? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[freezetyle]

So I am planning a fairly small upgrade to my 165 gal 8'er...................and YES, I can hear some of you saying..........WTF! Here he goes again!!

But when a good deal comes my way............I just can't pass it up:biggrin:

I have made the decision to get the glass cut for a 8' x 2' x 2' INSIDE DIMENSIONS.........roughly a little shy of 240 gals.

Not sure on the sump yet but it will be a much better design then my 165. After my wife seen pics of Mike' 8'er in Manitoba she wants me to build a complete wall unit that will be 12' long x 8' tall. I have a skimmer I really like, 2 MR1 reactors for Vertex Bio Pellets & Carbon, Profilux 2ex controller, probes, power bars & doser & more then enough pumps to provide mass flow but................

My biggest decision is going to be lighting........I would like to go with LED's but don't know much about them. How many LED's would I need? Do I DIY or buy fixtures? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

if its going to be in a wall or have a canopy over it i would DIY and save a ton of cash. you have a profilux so you could use dimmable drivers and a ledcontrol4 module and get the same lighting effects. you can everything from rapid led aside from the ghl module. hell, progressive might even be able to get you everything

[The Grizz]

It will be a fully inclosed cabinet top to bottom, I have looked at Rapid LED but have no idea what I would need. I know that I am capable of DIY just need some direction.

[kien]

DOUBLE YOU TEE EFF?!?! Here he goes again! :-D

[Milad]

LED builds consist of a few things:
LEDs
Drivers
Heatsink

Then a few odds and ends here and there to put it all together like thermal adhesive, fans, etc.

We carry all the LED DIY parts and im currently about to prototype a board that is plug in play for my 180g. The 180g will take 3 of these boards, your 8' would take 4. Basically all the wiring is done, all you do is add adhesive to attach it to the heatsink and connect the power supplies.

Not sure how quickly you will need lighting but I should be testing it in the next month or so. www.LEDGroupBuy.com if you need more info.

Check out my sig for LED build (its changed a bunch but it has a parts list of my original design)

[The Grizz]

DOUBLE YOU TEE EFF?!?! Here he goes again! :-D

See I knew there would be a couple, especially you Kien :twised:


LED builds consist of a few things:
LEDs
Drivers
Heatsink

Then a few odds and ends here and there to put it all together like thermal adhesive, fans, etc.

We carry all the LED DIY parts and im currently about to prototype a board that is plug in play for my 180g. The 180g will take 3 of these boards, your 8' would take 4. Basically all the wiring is done, all you do is add adhesive to attach it to the heatsink and connect the power supplies.

Not sure how quickly you will need lighting but I should be testing it in the next month or so. www.LEDGroupBuy.com if you need more info.

Check out my sig for LED build (its changed a bunch but it has a parts list of my original design)

Won't be for at least 3 months before I am ready for lighting so I will check this out, thanks Milad.

[Coleus]

If you capable of doing DIY, then i suggest LED for sure. Also if you wall is 12 feet, why not make a 12 feet tank :-), then you won't able to upgrade any further

[The Grizz]

If you capable of doing DIY, then i suggest LED for sure. Also if you wall is 12 feet, why not make a 12 feet tank :-), then you won't able to upgrade any further

The wife want me to make side cabinets to store all my SW related crap as she puts it. This will be the last upgrade for this tank so it has to be right the first time. The wall is actually 16' long but I don't want to cover the whole wall.:biggrin:

[Milad]

Why not build a 16 foot tank and just plumb everything into a fish room near by to store everything. It's only logical.

[kien]

Why not build a 16 foot tank and just plumb everything into a fish room near by to store everything. It's only logical.

That's just the stupid! Why build a 16 footer when he can easily build a marine park on his acreage!! Bring in some sharks, maybe a whale or two. You could charge admission. :-D

PS. I'm not joking.. Alberta could use a proper public aquarium.

[The Grizz]

Why not build a 16 foot tank and just plumb everything into a fish room near by to store everything. It's only logical.

I would if my well / RO room was under my tank but sadly it isn't & I have no other area to use.


That's just the stupid! Why build a 16 footer when he can easily build a marine park on his acreage!! Bring in some sharks, maybe a whale or two. You could charge admission. :-D

PS. I'm not joking.. Alberta could use a proper public aquarium.

:rofl: ............ But seriously.......

1. Not a millionaire
2. Wife would feed me to the sharks if I took her Husky running field away.
3. Did I mention that I'm not a millionaire

[lastlight]

The guy doesn't even have the decency to use the tank we slaved over to toss in his trailer. NOW there's a new build on the way?!

Alright I'm over it. Lets see some sexy glass pics. STAT!

[Coleus]

I would if my well / RO room was under my tank but sadly it isn't & I have no other area to use.




:rofl: ............ But seriously.......

1. Not a millionaire
2. Wife would feed me to the sharks if I took her Husky running field away.
3. Did I mention that I'm not a millionaire

YOU CAN DO IT

[The Grizz]

The guy doesn't even have the decency to use the tank we slaved over to toss in his trailer. NOW there's a new build on the way?!

Alright I'm over it. Lets see some sexy glass pics. STAT!

I would have used that tank but after hours of cleaning and re sealing it I have decided to generously donate it to someone that really needed a new tank for there bearded dragons but was unable to afford to buy or build something. So I built them a nice stand and helped move it into the place.

I don't have the glass yet but when I do there will be a new thread started.

But what I do need is to know what all I need to build a LED light system. How many LED's, color, heatsink's, power supplies and what ever else I need. Going to build a small one first for my FOWLR to test the waster.

[syncro]

Based on this LED Asthetics (http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=246394&view=findpost&p=3432771) thread use a color ratio of:

4 NW : 7 RB : 1 CB

NW: Cree XP-G Neutral White
RB: Cree XP-E Royal Blue
CB: Cree XP-E Blue

Create tightly grouped clusters of LEDS with each cluster containing a LED from each color group. This should improve color blending - reduce color shadowing and the disco ball effect.

To me this sounds a lot like the AquaIlluminations Sol Blue (http://www.aquaillumination.com/sol/) (same Cree emitters too). The AI unit uses a ratio of 1 NW : 1 RB : 1CB but with each color dimmable you can create this recommended ratio. Given the large number of AI users I figure a good route is to DIY something similar and piggyback on the AI info. For example AI recommends (http://support.aquaillumination.com/entries/459049-tank-recommendations) 1 Sol Blue per 24" x 24" are up to depths of 36" so a starting point is 4 units for your 8 foot tank. There is a huge thread on Reef Central where you can find PAR measurements, suggested lighting cycles if you are willing to slog through it.... most of which would apply to a DIY using the same emitters. This is my plan anyways until I find a better resource for DIY led. I've just started a thread (http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=275708&st=0&p=3433210&#entry3433210) on nano-reef along these lines. This is all book knowledge only - no real experience yet.

[syncro]

This post on reefcentral (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15346988&postcount=863) describes how many LEDs you might want when switching from MH/T5.

[The Grizz]

Man some of this is complicated stuff, I really want to go LED on all my tank so I will have to do a lot of reading to try to fully understand them. Thanks for the links.

Milad, I will have to send you a PM to help me figure out a few things. I showed the wife some prices of store bought fixtures & all she said was HELL NO!! So DIY it will be if I can figure it out.

[Milad]

syncro gots it down

LEDs put out alot of light, you just need to get about 10-15 square inches of surface space per LED and group the colors as tight as you can. The boards im producing are similar to the AI boards, tight groupings of NW, RB, B. But the difference is the NW is the new XM-L NW which can do about 3x the light of NW on the AI unit.

Im just trying to make it easy for everyone to do LEDs, I suspect once I have the boards you could probably do a 8 foot light in under 30min (not including time of trying to find a way to hang it)

[The Grizz]

Well I don't know if I am going to build my own LED panels or not now. I have see several companies coming out with some really nice looking units at a decent price.

But the tank size has been determined and the glass should be ready for pickup mid Aug. Tank will be 96"L x 24"w x 30"T, front will also be starphire.

[Skimmerking]

Greg i had a 17 foot wall and put in the tank that i have now. Have the computer there now with the left over space. i can shoot some pictures of the tank and stand if you want with measurements after having that what i have now it would down anything different. All stuff is in the cabinets or the shelving

[The Grizz]

I have just about got the layout planned, just need to draw it up. I am going to put a small bar fridge in one end, redneck chiller and food storage. If I stay with my MH / T5 the ballasts will be in the top of the side towers with cooling fans but I would really like to got LED's for less heat & power consumption. Both towers are going to have an open spot where I can see the sides of the tank, Profilux controller will sit on one of the open side tops.

[Milad]

Well I don't know if I am going to build my own LED panels or not now. I have see several companies coming out with some really nice looking units at a decent price.

But the tank size has been determined and the glass should be ready for pickup mid Aug. Tank will be 96"L x 24"w x 30"T, front will also be starphire.

Link them and I can give you some feedback on if they are good or not.

So far the only ones that are good are the AI panels.

[The Grizz]

This is one I was thinking of trying out on one of my smaller tanks.

http://eshinegrow.com/aquariumlight/60w-cree-led-aquarium-light.htm

And these for the 8'er

http://eshinegrow.com/aquariumlight/200w-led-aquarium-light.htm

There are some other options but they are out on my office desktop.

[Milad]

This is one I was thinking of trying out on one of my smaller tanks.

http://eshinegrow.com/aquariumlight/60w-cree-led-aquarium-light.htm

And these for the 8'er

http://eshinegrow.com/aquariumlight/200w-led-aquarium-light.htm

There are some other options but they are out on my office desktop.

The first one isn't "bad". It using 3w xr-e which is about 3 years old. It also doesnt say what bins they are so you probably going to end up with the less powerful bins. Also doesn't say what the blue is.

The second one is bad. 1w LEDs arent for sw tanks and they especially arent for deeper tanks as they will have a harder time penetrating water even with optics compared to a 3w with optics.

I haven't seen anything good on 1w LEDs on sw.


You want xm-l whites. Xp-e royal blues. These are 3w latest LEDs that are the most efficient.

[Edmonton newbie]

greg did you get a price on those leds? i might be interested in getting a couple of the grow light ones to try a turf scrubber on my new tank. just a thought tho

[mike31154]

It's not necessarily all about power, i.e. 3 watt Crees. Here's a link to a blog by a guy who seems quite focused on the Orphek brand of LED & their fixtures. Many interesting reads here and although it's a personal blog he provides plenty of data in the form of spectographs in order to support his argument that the colour spectrum output of an LED can be just as, or more important than simply the power output.

Many options out there these days & more on the way. Personally I'm liking the MR16 and PAR38 bulb form factor. Pretty much plug & play as the PAR38 bulbs simply screw into any standard household fixture and the MR16 bulbs are designed as accent lighting running on straight 12 volts DC. This would make them perfect for a smaller nano or pico tank which you could run off a 12 VDC power source such as a deep cycle battery charged by solar panel. No soldering or special LED drivers required. In addition, if one of the bulbs goes, you're not looking at trying to repair an entire fixture or module. Simply pop out the old bulb & put in a new one, just like current lighting systems we use. I'd also venture to guess, if you used a bunch of them, this concept can easily be applied to larger tanks.

http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/captive_aquatics/led-lighting/

[The Grizz]

greg did you get a price on those leds? i might be interested in getting a couple of the grow light ones to try a turf scrubber on my new tank. just a thought tho

Yes I did get a price list on the aquarium fixtures from eshine, pm me you e-mail and I will forward you the info I have received thus far.

[Milad]

It's not necessarily all about power, i.e. 3 watt Crees. Here's a link to a blog by a guy who seems quite focused on the Orphek brand of LED & their fixtures. Many interesting reads here and although it's a personal blog he provides plenty of data in the form of spectographs in order to support his argument that the colour spectrum output of an LED can be just as, or more important than simply the power output.

Many options out there these days & more on the way. Personally I'm liking the MR16 and PAR38 bulb form factor. Pretty much plug & play as the PAR38 bulbs simply screw into any standard household fixture and the MR16 bulbs are designed as accent lighting running on straight 12 volts DC. This would make them perfect for a smaller nano or pico tank which you could run off a 12 VDC power source such as a deep cycle battery charged by solar panel. No soldering or special LED drivers required. In addition, if one of the bulbs goes, you're not looking at trying to repair an entire fixture or module. Simply pop out the old bulb & put in a new one, just like current lighting systems we use. I'd also venture to guess, if you used a bunch of them, this concept can easily be applied to larger tanks.

http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/captive_aquatics/led-lighting/

The PAR 38 and MR16 are nice, but ive seen them over a tank and they just look bulky to me. If you have a large canopy to hide them, then it isnt a problem.

what makes LEDs so amazing is how small they are. As long as you plan well, you can make a fixture no more than maybe 2 inches thick. The bulbs can be about 7 inches tall before you even get to the socket/wiring behind it.

Currently the design im working on over my 180 is going to be a bit more than 1in thick in most areas and 2inches thick in just a couple areas so its going to be a slim piece of art hanging over my display.

As far as the replacing a dead emitter, yes that is the pitfall if you have a prefab fixture. If its on a board with all the rest, you cant easily change it. If its a single star, its just easily done by bypassing the star with a piece of new wire or replacing the star. The AI fixtures lets you replace modules, which is nice but you end up replacing 3 LEDs instead of just one.

[intarsiabox]

The first one isn't "bad". It using 3w xr-e which is about 3 years old. It also doesnt say what bins they are so you probably going to end up with the less powerful bins. Also doesn't say what the blue is.

The second one is bad. 1w LEDs arent for sw tanks and they especially arent for deeper tanks as they will have a harder time penetrating water even with optics compared to a 3w with optics.

I haven't seen anything good on 1w LEDs on sw.


You want xm-l whites. Xp-e royal blues. These are 3w latest LEDs that are the most efficient.

Milad,

I have also been thinking about the Eshine 60W Cree fixture to try on a nano to see if I actually like LED lighting over my tank or not. The "blue" light on the fixtures are Cree 455nm Royal Blues. They are also the same fixtures that are being sold by SWC on their web site. Does this help you with being able to recommend or not? Thanks!

[Milad]

Milad,

I have also been thinking about the Eshine 60W Cree fixture to try on a nano to see if I actually like LED lighting over my tank or not. The "blue" light on the fixtures are Cree 455nm Royal Blues. They are also the same fixtures that are being sold by SWC on their web site. Does this help you with being able to recommend or not? Thanks!

Well its using XREWHT-L1-Q5-0000-00D01 3W White.... XREROY-L1-D3-0000-00703 3W Blue

10 of each, with 60 degree optics which is good.

The only issues I see with it is its using some older models. The XRE are much less efficient than the XP-G and XM-L

Also the XP-E royal blue bin its using is very low end. For instance, the one they are using is 250mW flux and the one that we carry and most of the DIY sites are starting to carry is basically two models higher which runs at 350mW flux.

Its better than most of the ones Ive seen. And your corals should do good under it (SPS, etc).

[intarsiabox]

Thanks for getting back to me. I think I'll try one out (it's only $275 including shipping directly from Eshine) and maybe contact you in the future about DIY for a new 6' tank I'm planning as soon as my house is finished being built. I really just want to feel the waters before I invest further into something I don't care for. A LFS had a cheap unit on display in the store last year and it gave me a headache to look at the tank for more than a minute or two, scared me off LED's a bit.

[The Grizz]

Can any one tell me how many 3w LEDs ( 1:1 cool white / royal blue ) I would require for a 96"L x 24"W x 30"D tank. I am thinking of using 12" x 12" heat sinks.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Milad]

Can any one tell me how many 3w LEDs ( 1:1 cool white / royal blue ) I would require for a 96"L x 24"W x 30"D tank. I am thinking of using 12" x 12" heat sinks.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

3W LEDs arent all made the same.

I can tell you that if you go with XP-E and XP-G CREE LEDs you will need about 150 total LEDs.

If you go with CREE XM-L CW and XP-E Royal Blue then you would need something like 90 Royal Blue and 30 Cool White.

[The Grizz]

Going with these, Cree Part Number: XPEWHT-L1-0000-00F01 & Cree Part Number:**XPEROY-L1-0000-00A01.

If I go with the 12 x 12 heatsink, I am thinking I will need 4, each should cover a 24" x 24" area.

[viperfish]

Hey Grizz, have you checked out modularled.ca? They have an awesome website and they're right out of Red Deer.

[The Grizz]

Hey Grizz, have you checked out modularled.ca? They have an awesome website and they're right out of Red Deer.

Yep, that's who I am going with, Martin & I had a good visit last week.

[Milad]

Going with these, Cree Part Number: XPEWHT-L1-0000-00F01 & Cree Part Number:**XPEROY-L1-0000-00A01.

If I go with the 12 x 12 heatsink, I am thinking I will need 4, each should cover a 24" x 24" area.

Are you sure you got the Cool White correct? that is an XP-E not XP-G that most sell, didnt think anyone purchased the XP-E CW.

Both of those are about 82-85% as efficient as the recent XP-E RB and XP-G CW.

Taking that into consideration you can get away with about 180 on a mainly SPS tank.

I would recommend going with 60 NW and 120 RB though because that ratio is more aesthetically pleasing. In pods of 3 to do better color rendering.

[The Grizz]

Are you sure you got the Cool White correct? that is an XP-E not XP-G that most sell, didnt think anyone purchased the XP-E CW.

Both of those are about 82-85% as efficient as the recent XP-E RB and XP-G CW.

Taking that into consideration you can get away with about 180 on a mainly SPS tank.

I would recommend going with 60 NW and 120 RB though because that ratio is more aesthetically pleasing. In pods of 3 to do better color rendering.

Yes I am sure I have the cool whites correct, came right of the web site I am going with. Currently they don't have NW LEDs but I want to go with this company because they are local and I can see what I am getting before I buy, actually physically hold things in my hand. Screw it...... Going with MODULAR LED

Going with only 3 pods would only give me a 6' coverage on my 8' tank.

[Milad]

Yes I am sure I have the cool whites correct, came right of the web site I am going with. Currently they don't have NW LEDs but I want to go with this company because they are local and I can see what I am getting before I buy, actually physically hold things in my hand. Screw it...... Going with MODULAR LED

Going with only 3 pods would only give me a 6' coverage on my 8' tank.

3 pods meaning that you take the color ratio and put them as close together as you can.

So you would take 2 Royal Blue, 1 Neutral White and have them touching. Then you spread these pods up to 4inches apart.

[The Grizz]

3 pods meaning that you take the color ratio and put them as close together as you can.

So you would take 2 Royal Blue, 1 Neutral White and have them touching. Then you spread these pods up to 4inches apart.

Ok gotcha on the pods thing, makes sence now.