Green Water Column

[AJ_77]

My tank reminds me lately of a FW algae outbreak I once had that turned that tank's water green. So I am concerned about the murky tinge in my less than 3 mos. old reef tank. (90g, 33g sump, 5" DSB, 125 lbs LR, 4 OVRNO, 2 NO actinic, skimmer, added Fluval with carbon and floss yesterday)

The white bucket I used for my 2nd water change this week was definitely showing the yellow/green water colour. I'm not missing any animals, can't see anything dead, don't have many animals actually (pair perculas, small scopas tang, cleaner crew, few softies). Have a bit of red diatoms on the sandbed. Have cut back the photoperiod and feeding schedule - so many pods they won't starve anyways...

I've searched the boards with little result, can anyone offer some advice? Many thanks,

Alan

[ 14 June 2002, 08:38: Message edited by: AJ_77 ]

[Canadian Man]

Dun Dun Dun Da (superhero music) :rolleyes:
Jonny to the rescue! hahaha

Alan is it possible your algae in your refugium went asextual. I have never seen this phenomonom(never spelt this word) happen so when i saw your tank a few days ago i couldnt tell you what it was, this is my suggestion though.

For the first 8 months of my tanks existance i ran carbon 24/7 and when i did water changes my water that was taken out in the bucket was still green.
since adding my sump i have not used carbon, so about a month now and i definatley notice a little more green tinge to the water.

Maybe running the carbon will clean it up.

Oh on another note how's the leather's doing?

[AJ_77]

The caulerpa is still green, though. Shouldn't it be turning white if it's going sexual? We need a sexual expert...

I want to ditch that stuff and try to grow a whopping crop of the halimeda for the refuge. It is going gangbusters in the main tank.

The leathers look a little frazzled.

AJ

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

hi Alan
i have to agree with Jonathan your algae went acexual,or maybe you left your lights on for a long period and still is algae bloom.only seen this when i tried keeping my halides on for about 16hrs a day it hapened i think few days later.all i did is floss and over skimmed.cut down the photo period to 8hrs for 2wks then back to 12hrs/day.(and added few more pumps to the tank for more water exchange)
no animals died.

[Delphinus]

I'm going to offer a slightly dissenting opinion (but I don't want to touch the "sexual expert" comment though ...)

Macroalgae sporalation ("going sexual") is OBVIOUS. Unless you have a tiny little bit go on you, your tank will look like you've dumped a 2 litre jug of milk in it. And you will notice a white or clear empty shell of the sprigs who went on you. If this is what's happened, nothing more than a cursory look-over should be enough for you to confirm your suspicion.

My water always has a little greenish tint to it. Running carbon does help (but I don't like to run carbon myself, unless it's a band-aid knee-jerk reaction on my part to something that's happened in the tank -- reason being, it's stripping stuff out, right? What if it's some kind of phytoplankton? In that case, I WANT it in my tank!). Running a polyfilter aka "filter floss" also does help (but I don't like running those full-time either, for the same reasons).

Personally, I think as the biodiversity grows, the greenish tint subdues to the point where you don't really notice it anymore. But that's just IMHO.

PS. It could also be a function of what lights you run. Some lights are better (or worse, shall I say) than others for highlighting a greenish tint to the water column. This is, IMO, one of the reasons why I think blue lights such as actinics or the high-K MH bulbs, are quite popular, because they help the colour contrast of other things in the tank, and thus make it easier to not notice a tiny hint of green in the water column. So, really, it all comes down to this: GIT YOUR IWASAKIS ON THAT TANK ALREADY!!!

(PPS. Speaking of which, did you notice the Iwasaki for sale in Calgary, in the buy/sell forum a couple of days ago? That one has your name written all over it dude!)

[ 12 June 2002, 11:02: Message edited by: delphinus ]

[Delphinus]

Well ... hmmm. You should still be able to see through the tank lengthwise.

This is what I'd do. First, make sure all inhabitants are accounted for. Next, run some carbon (I like to use a hang-on aquaclear with a carbon bag stuffed in it, but you can dump it in your sump if you can get it so the water flows through it ... whatever works). Maybe even run some polyfilter. You know what's really keen? You know those quick-filters you can get for the Hagen powerheads? Well, the filters you can get for the power-filters, one of those sizes (I think it's "No. 4") fits a quick filter perfectly. And it's a combination polyfilter with carbon. Just put this in the quickfilter instead of the normal quickfilter pad, and jam it on a powerhead, and you're set.

And a water change couldn't hurt.

Have you tested your params? Anything amiss?

[AJ_77]

Water has tested well lately, I'll check it again tonight. Put Bob's Fluval 304 on last night with floss and carbon. Everything else is stated in posts above...

Kind of freaky - it does look like an algae bloom, not just in the water but on the glass as well. Strange, because after adjusting the skimmer last week it's been pulling really well.

As to lighting - I'll hold the course with a reduced photoperiod for now. I would like to talk MH options with you someday soon, though...

Alan

[Doug]

I will take a crack at "sexual" :D At my age its fun just talking about it. :D

Ok, to get serious now. After your first post, I figued it was just water yellowing from lack of carbon use.

Yes, I am a believer in regular use of carbon, but just a little at a time to keep the compounds that colour the water. Of course water changes also achieve this, but thats another story. smile.gif

Anyways, as I read your next post, it sure does sound like the calerpa doing its thing. :D My 170 did the same last year. Dont know why, but turned to pea soup. If the calerpa looks fine, keep an eye on it anyways. Perhaps a water change and then run some carbon.

You never mentioned which skimmer you have, but I was running mine skimmerless at the time. When I turned my Euroreef on it cleaned it out in no time, sucking tons of green crap out.

Hope some of that helps. Mostly what the guys have already mentioned.

[Bob I]

I guess it is my turn now since I have kept the same Caulerpa as you for many months (hell it came from my place right?) I have never had the "sexual experience :D . Chunks of the Caulerpa will go a transparent white. I just remove those pieces. I forgot to mention it, but it sounds like you are a prime candidate for some Diatomaceous Earth filtering. That stuff filters down to one micron. I used it successfully about 25 years ago. The Vortex filters are still available. They are expensive, so it might be an idea for the group to get together and buy one. Then when one of us has a problem they can use it. That is my idea.
Bob

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

I don't think the caulerpa has gone sexual since the caulerpa turns white when that happens. However, I think you have a phytoplankton outbreak or green water. The same kind of stuff in DT (not quite the same type, but the same family). I provided a possible solution to this problem a couple months ago...so, you may want to search the archives.

- Victor.

[ 12 June 2002, 21:44: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[AJ_77]

As to my skimmer, don't ask. After seeing EmilyB's I am humbled; it must be similar to yours, Doug. About the width of a fish barrel.

Anyone have a competent skimmer they aren't using???

As to the green water solution, I'll certainly check the archives, thanks Victor.

As to diatomaceous earth (?), I have no idea but thanks for the input Bob.

I fit 3 bags of carbon across the final trap in the sump, and unhooked the Fluval - couldn't stop it making bubbles. HTH.

Alan

[AJ_77]

Thanks Guys. Tony (you expert you), the macro is not how you describe. I've been watching for this, I had a few strands going clear awhile back and yanked them out.

The thing is, this is more than a green tint - it's a green MURK. Like, bad, man! Can't see through the tank long-ways.

So, I could do the MH thing right away (IWASAKI!!) and make pea soup? Would not intense lighting at this point exacerbate my problem? (Plus, my bulb is older and going yellow.)

And what's this about 430 HPS ballasts for the Radium 400 for $100 all about? The bulbs are on for $150 or so, ya know! MY gosh, that would be something I'd like before I die. ;)

Alan :D tongue.gif

[ 12 June 2002, 12:13: Message edited by: AJ_77 ]

[Doug]

Hey, if its like DT,s maybe you could bottle and sell it. :D

Some kind of good sponge filter at the end or what I use to clean, a big old Walmart hang on the back power filter, with lots of floss, may help clean it up.

[Bob I]

I guess I don't understand about the Fluval. I used it for over a year, and it never made any bubbles. I would really have to see what is going on at your place to even make an uneducated guess.

[Delphinus]

Ummm ... one obvious thing that I completely overlooked here.

AJ_77, you stated that you have checked your caulerpa and are certain that there are no clear or white pieces.

But ... halimeda is also not immune to the occasional sporalation. Have you checked all your halimeda as well?

Re-reading this thread from top to bottom, I humbly take back my original assertion, and am joining the sporalation bandwagon. I originally thought you only had a little bit of green hue in the water.

Whatever it is though, the advice you've been given applies either way, it's all good.

PS. Yeah, the thought did occur to me too that you may have an skimmer that's unable to keep up with the DOC in that tank, but, I didn't want to mention it because, well, a) if it is true then I'm sure you already know about it and b) I don't really know what I'm talking about anyways. Is there such a thing as "inadequate skimmer" ? Maybe just "ineffectual in certain situations." Some people go skimmerless altogether, and that's fine and well if you maintain everything else impeccably, and some people use a monstrous beckett skimmer on a 20g with 200x turnover. So who's right? Ah, to heck with it all, this is going nowhere, I will stop typing now.

[ 13 June 2002, 13:46: Message edited by: delphinus ]

[Delphinus]

I mentioned water changes... Actually I think AJ_77 also said he had done some already anyways.

But you know what IS missing from being mentioned here?

AJ_77, what are your NO3 and PO4 values?

[ 13 June 2002, 13:51: Message edited by: delphinus ]

[AJ_77]

I'll post some results as soon as I test again, Tony, probably tonight. They've been good of late, the NO3 values, nothing to see really. I don't have a foss-fate kit. ;)

The irony of this is I was just bombasting recently about keeping things simple, not wanting to ever own a reactor, blah-blah-blah... Now I'm making green water that I can't even market.

HEY: How do you like your Berlin skimmer? Good?

Alan smile.gif

[ 13 June 2002, 14:13: Message edited by: AJ_77 ]

[BCReefer]

3 – 4 weeks ago while adding kalk I some how managed to kill almost all of my Xenia. After scrubing the rock and cleaning out the dead Xenia, I noticed that my water was kinda yellow looking and I was getting a bit of a algae out break.

Xince then I have tried my best to scrub out the Algae and I have done 2 - 30% water changes. Only now is my water becoming clearer. When I sucked out the water the 1st time I was bloddy amazed how dirty the water was. I read in Eric Hugo’s book that yellow/greenish water means high nutrients and water changes are the simplest form to clear the problem.

No idea if this could help but I did not notice anything about water changes being mentioned.

Cheers,
Patrick

[AJ_77]

From a thread in March:
Hi,

I don't know how to say this, but congratulations...you have created green water. Also known as phytoplankton and this is good food for your corals. People actually pay $40 for a gallon for this stuff

In any case, this is caused by too much nutrients. The simplest way to fix this problem (not that it is a problem) is to buy a micron filter cartridge for magnum 250/350/300 canister/HOT magnium. I used some duct tape and converted my power head such that the intake water passes through the micron filter.

The other way is to a 95% water change and lights out for 2 weeks. And then another 95% water change.

Nutrient export is important in a skimmerless system -- you may want to look at implementing an ATS. This is much more effective than a skimmer.

Hope that helps.

- Victor.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Glad to see this is not a freak event (I'm not Alone). Anybody in Calgary want to buy some phytoplankton?? Quick, before it all ends up in the local wastewater system... ;)

Hooked up a T1000 Multi skimmer last night, and emptied the cup twice since (pea... soup). Seems to work pretty well staightaway, due to the overabundance of DOM and nutrients, I guess?

Alan

[ 14 June 2002, 08:55: Message edited by: AJ_77 ]

[AJ_77]

Did another water change, and the soup intensified a couple of days afterward. My tank is the most vibrant green! It'd be cool if it wasn't so ridiculous...

Put on the micron filter, the filter floss, changed the floss, rinsed the floss, added carbon, more carbon, overskimming like a bandit, cut the photoperiod, changed bulbs to new, danced a jig...

I'm going to post some pics - it's unbelievable. Some guy on RC said his outbreak went as quickly as it came... after a month. :eek:

I hope these posts aren't getting tiresome, but I need somewhere to vent.

Thanks All,

Alan

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

I am surprised that the micron filter didn't work. Umm...did it do anything ?

- Victor.

[AJ_77]

Victor:

It's gotten pretty dirty in the past day - I'm going to clean it tomorrow as recommended by magnum. We'll give it 2 days.

But no, it hasn't cleared up the situation. I hate to say, "not at all" but I cannot notice a difference since yesterday, except the colour change of the filter itself. It's now greenish-brown, from white.

And the tank seems more radiant, if that is possible. Very strange, yet water readings are like usual, and the kit is still quite new. The fellows on RC with similar experiences state similar symptoms - water tests well, looks like h@ll. Ah, well. Thanks for your interest.

Alan

--------------------
Disclaimer: My tank runs on different principles and ideas than those of the norm. I tend to run a phytoplankton farm.

[ 17 June 2002, 23:04: Message edited by: AJ_77 ]

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Opps...I forgot to tell you to clean it fairly often (like every couple of hours to a 1/2 hour). So the filter clogged (i.e. likes like it collapsed) ?

Yah, the green water stuff will make your levels look quite nice. This is because the green water is consuming all of the nutrients. This is the same problem with most algae problems...levels look good...tank looks like a green garden.

Say...what type of gravel do you have ? We could build a sand filter with your gravel if it was fine enough. Basically, you pump water through the sand and the sand will trap green particles. Be sure to use a small pump or else....

BTW, your skimmer won't pickup a lot of the green water since it isn't polar particles. Similar to skimmer's inability to skim DT...we have the same problem here.

- Victor.

[AJ_77]

Hi,
No the filter didn't collapse, it's just close to brown. Yich. I suppose frequent cleaning would make sense.

My sand bed is oo-litic, almost too fine. Do you recommend putting a small PH intake under the sand? You're making me nervous... ;)

And what about these phosphate removers? Any good?

Thanks,

Alan

--------------------
Disclaimer: My tank runs on different principles and ideas than those of the norm. I tend to run a phytoplankton farm.

[AJ_77]

Originally posted by stephane:
For How long did you have this problem alan
It's been about 10 days now.

+ how your tank habitant look did the coral look fine?
They were doing well & growing, all new frags except 1 larger Devil's Hand which was the first casualty.

tell us more about the tank? for who long it run
what do you keep what do you add wich light and what age the bulb. Wath do you feed?
Tank is new - 3 months. I feed a piece of something each day, or flake. They like mysis. Running 4 x OVRNO just replaced 2 that were older, and 2 NO actinic. (Got Radiums?)

But IMO patience and maintenance will do it and there the only way to go. but unless you tell more about the tank any recomendation has no value there to mutch parameter to covert and to much interogation and as I tell you before you need to find the cause because you always gone have problem of any kind
Good advice Stephane, thank-you. I'll stick with it and see what comes. The tank details are in the top post, I think.

If you try to much you will stess only more you system and he will not like it
I'm staying calm and accepting my fate - I run a phytoplankton farm! I don't want to stress the tank any more, but I can't see what's going on in there, and that is stressing Me. :rolleyes:

About testing phosphate most of the time it will
showing a big zero since the algea suck it azap
the test only work before the algea bloom after you dont see notting but algea algea algea algea.....<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks mon ami, it is much appreciated. We'll have to do the "before and after" pictures of this one!

Alan

[stephane]

I'm staying calm and accepting my fate - I run a phytoplankton farm! I don't want to stress the tank any more, but I can't see what's going on in there, and that is stressing Me.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ho!!!! Alan your tank is 3 month old!!

Stop asking you question my friend your tank is not realy getting in balance yet you just have finish you normal nitrogen cycle and at this point your tank is very fragile to any change you have probably only overfeed it. New tank could only process a litle food. Feed it every day have get you cross the balance and you tank react in protecting is self by produce the easyest nutriment eater "algea" if she have not doing this you will have amonia or nitrite so in your case the algea have been only beneficial and give you a chance. Now go get rid of it sometime take more time than other deppend of who nutriment you have there. ALL nutriment need to be process 100% in other form than algea I will try to explane it better That way.

tink about if you have 1000 algea cell in you tank and now you feed so you feed them up an they reproduce. If you stop feed them dont tink they will dies all living cell proces only 20% off all
they feed on 80% of it stay in your water colum +
when they dies because they starve, the one that die feed the other one that live and so reproduce.
but normal balance will be create and algea overgrow by other like coraline and nutriment suck by coral who feed at algea and alway keep the 20% in them so sometime it take more longuer but time will be your best friend and medication you enemy since it will kill the algea but stop normal evolution of the tank

IMO Even water change for the next month will disturb to much wait be patient. REDUCE feeding to 2 or 3 time a week for a month or until ting go better dont add ANYTING until a couple of month

[ 18 June 2002, 14:00: Message edited by: stephane ]

[stephane]

For How long did you have this problem alan

+ how your tank habitant look did the coral look fine?

tell us more about the tank? for who long it run
what do you keep what do you add wich light and what age the bulb. Wath do you feed?

But IMO patience and maintenance will do it and there the only way to go. but unless you tell more about the tank any recomendation has no value there to mutch parameter to covert and to much interogation and as I tell you before you need to find the cause because you always gone have problem of any kind

If you try to much you will stess only more you system and he will not like it

About testing phosphate most of the time it will
showing a big zero since the algea suck it azap
the test only work before the algea bloom after you dont see notting but algea algea algea algea.....