sump setup

[Baldy]

Hi all,

I have a 75g setup rigt now with a fluval 404 canister filter, and am looking at building a sump for it. I don't have much room in the cabinet, so 12-15 g is all I can fit. At the moment I have a maxijet 1200 running a remora c skimmer, and another one running a phosban reactor with bioplastic pellets in it. Is itok to return all the sump flow through the skimmer/reactor with 1 pump? I'm planning on using a mag drive 9 as a return pump which will work great split between the two. The reactor could use the extra flow anyway. Or should I use 2 return pumps?

[sphelps]

The one return pump can feed everything but the sump size seems a bit small for the tank. What are the inside dimensions of the cabinet?

[DeneBanger]

The skimmer and reactor should go down in the sump and continue to run off the maxijets so they will be independent of the return pump. Combining the two will probably be your biggest mistake and you'll be throwing away money.

[sphelps]

The skimmer and reactor should go down in the sump and continue to run off the maxijets so they will be independent of the return pump. Combining the two will probably be your biggest mistake and you'll be throwing away money.
Explain?

[DeneBanger]

Explain?
Skimmers are usually designed to run with a specific pump or powerhead, by the time you play around with trying to eliminate the powerhead and tee off the return...you'll probably find that the skimmer doesn't perform as it used to and you'll wind up going back to the maxijet anyway.

You could probably get away with plumbing the reactor into the return but I think that is about as far as I'd go.

[sphelps]

Perhaps but I don't believe the skimmer in question is that sensitive and it would take about 2min to dial it in to match the power head and with a proper manifold you'll never have to reset it. And worst case he'll still have the maxi-jet so no money is wasted.

Using a single return pump to feed multiple pieces of equipment is very common practice. It certainly would make more sense here given the size constraints.

[Baldy]

I have no problem with where the skimmer and reactor are on the back of the tank. I will measure when I get home, but I think 30g would be the sump capacity right full. Height is the biggest constraint.

As far as dialing in the equipment, I could see a possible issue with the skimmer flow, but the reactor could definitely use more than the maxijet puts out.

My question was more to do with should I return through a couple nozzles in the corners, or is it fine to return through the reactor and skimmer only?

[cwatkins]

I'd return the sump separately than via the reactor or skimmer.

Reactors are known to slowly clog, and you don't want that affecting your flow.

But as mentioned above, once you get a sump, the reactor and skimmer can go in the sump.

I have 2 reactors and a skimmer in my sump. Essentially instead of hanging a reactor off the side of something, I hang them inside the sump. My biopellet reactor is powered by it's own submerged MJ1200. My carbon reactor feeds off of the return but it's low-flow (Rox 0.8). And of course the skimer has a built in pump, but it sits in the sump.

[sphelps]

I understand what you're asking now and your plan is not very good. The skimmer and reactor should go in the sump, you can tee into the return line to feed them there while still having a separate line feed the tank. Putting them inline as you described will not work well and exposes multiple points of failure for lines to come off and will make maintenance more difficult. Your flow rate will also suffer and you should not increase the flow through the skimmer or reactor, they should remain consistent to what they are now.

[Baldy]

here are a couple pics of my current setup.

http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad90/Forced__Induction/WP_000059.jpg
http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad90/Forced__Induction/WP_000062.jpg

Its difficult to see, but i have 2 remora c surface skimmer boxes. one has a MJ1200 in it set up with the protien skimmer as usual, and the other has the MJ1200 running the reactor as well as the intake for the canister filter on the intake side, and the returns for both on the other side.

the stand has a divider between the two halves preventing me from filling the whole cabinet with a sump unfortunately. the dimensions i have to work with are 21" wide, 19" deep, and 17" high. that is total space where i want the sump. so it will have to be shorter than 17" to allow room to access the filter sock and the rest of the sump. i have some space on the other side to use external pumps which was my plan.

as you can see, there isnt room for the skimmer in the sump. the reactor would fit though. I would like the total height of the sump box to be 10-12 inches making the max capacity 17-20g. that will leave adequate room for access

[Baldy]

Perhaps but I don't believe the skimmer in question is that sensitive and it would take about 2min to dial it in to match the power head and with a proper manifold you'll never have to reset it. And worst case he'll still have the maxi-jet so no money is wasted.

Using a single return pump to feed multiple pieces of equipment is very common practice. It certainly would make more sense here given the size constraints.


what would you describe as a "proper manifold"

[sphelps]

what would you describe as a "proper manifold"

Something like this:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMYKgoJOeDByWou9LvXGzmIXGzYbcJc HXfYbrIRZ3jHpQsv1jP-A

[sphelps]

As for the stand and sump size you could build two sumps, one for each cabinet, and link them with a 2" pipe. Done this a few times for people with similar stands; it will allow for all equipment to fit with space to spare and you'll have some more freedom for back flow.

Is your tank drilled? Or are you planning on using a HOB overflow?

[pscott99]

Money permitting of course, better stand bigger sump. It seems like you will be accomplishing little with your size limitations, although the two tank idea sounds like the best fit. One of the big benefits is getting everything out of the DT and it sounds like you will not be able to. Just my 2c.

[Baldy]

i will be able to get the surface skimmer boxes, heaters, and 1 float sensor (ill keep one for overflow protection) out of the DT. that combined with the ease of maintenance, better water clarity (canister likes to gather air in it and realease little clouds of bubbles now and then), and more space for live rock is what im after. the sump wont be optimal, but im building it myself out of acrylic so it wont cost too much.

i think im going to set it up with 1 mag drive 9 returning to a spray bar, and another split between the skimmer and the reactor. the reactor will fit in the sump as well, but i wouldnt be able to get the collection cup off the skimmer if i got it down there.

i know that 1500gph (750gph at 4' head x2) is a bit much for a 75g, but i could always throttle that back some.

[Baldy]

and i really do like the idea of linking a sump in the other side, only problem is i also have a custom 10g ATO tank in that side thats taking up half the space :(. I need a bigger stand...

[sphelps]

Well make sure you think this through, personally I think the one sump will be too small but if you can make it work to your expectations then that's all that matters. Just remember when the return pump turns off you'll loose about 1-2" of water from the DT which will back flow into the sump, so you'll need about 4 to 7 gallons of extra space in the sump depending on the overflow size and flow rate. Also you'll have more than 4' of head pressure, with loses from the pipe and fittings you'll actually be closer to about 7 feet or even 8. With a smaller sump you'll want a smaller flow rate, 5x is probably the max you want.

For the ATO you can either move it beside the stand or somewhere else or run a different kind of ATO system all together. If you have an RO filter and can run a 1/4" line to the tank from it you can set something better up anyway for about $80 worth of parts.

[sphelps]

Head loss calc if you're interested:
http://www.reefcentral.net/index.php/head-loss-calculator