Ich

[Reefpins10]

Today, the very last of my fish died after ich completely wiped out my tank :sad: All I need to know is how long before I can introduce new fish, and how many fish will be safe to have all at the same time.
It really broke my heart to see them die one by one in 4 weeks period. I really miss them :sad: They are my pets.

[Aquaria]

8 weeks for ich to die off as for stocking we would need more info on your tank and unless you setup a proper QT tank you are just going to reintroduce ich when you start stocking again

[MarkoD]

this happen to me about 2 months ago

3 of my fish survived.

i added a UV sterilizer and added fish a month later.

everything has been good for a month now.

im not gonna say a sterilizer helped or fixed it. but i personally wouldnt have a saltwater tank without a sterilizer again.

[naesco]

Today, the very last of my fish died after ich completely wiped out my tank :sad: All I need to know is how long before I can introduce new fish, and how many fish will be safe to have all at the same time.
It really broke my heart to see them die one by one in 4 weeks period. I really miss them :sad: They are my pets.

I am very sorry to see you lost your pets.

Please add, after the waiting period, one fish each month to ensure you do not disrupt your system. It is best to go slow.

[Jenn_737700]

I agree with naesco. Another thing to think about would be to maybe soak any of your new fish's food in garlic. Just to help their immune system after the ich outbreak, even if its all cleared up, To prevent anything. Better safe than sorry:biggrin:

My neon goby had a pretty bad case of ich, so I bought some garlic guard and soaked his pellets in it. He was cleared up in about 5 days, and has been fine ever since.

[daniella3d]

Have you done anything at all to save them? I mean, 4 weeks is quite a long time to watch fish suffer and die. A quarantine tank and medicine would have probably saved them.

If you want to introduce fish again, start by doing a proper quarantine and make sure all the fish are clean before putting them in your main tank. Wait 8 weeks minimum, 10 is safer. The tank must be fishless for that long.


Today, the very last of my fish died after ich completely wiped out my tank :sad: All I need to know is how long before I can introduce new fish, and how many fish will be safe to have all at the same time.
It really broke my heart to see them die one by one in 4 weeks period. I really miss them :sad: They are my pets.

[Reefpins10]

Thank you for all your condolences and advice. I did feed them with garlic, but every few days one of them died and just getting worse and worse. They eat normally in the day time, but at night they became covered with white and getting weaker day by day. I had raised the temperature to 81F day and night but it still didn't help at all. The total of 15 fish died with opened gills and mouths, looked very suffering. At the beginning when I had a few fish die, my husband had spoke to Jeff from J&L and had someone there test the water for me, the water was fine. He told my husband don't do anything when we thought we might need to put an extra powerhead if there is some lack of oxygen in the tank. At that time, the fish didn't show any ich, they just died with no reason. A week later they became all covered with ich.
I am devastated with the loss. Some of the fish I had were more than 8 years with me. I felt completely useless seing them die. It is a great sadness for me.

[daniella3d]

who told you to raise the temperature? That did not help at all, in fact, it may have precipitate the process of the ich multiplying and it deprived your fish from much needed oxygen. A very very bad advise and who ever gave you that advise should be ignored in the future.

The reason your fish did not show sign of ich at the begining is because the ich first infect the gill, then when that's full they spread over the body. By that time it is usualy a bit late but with isolation tank and medicine like Cupramine from Seachem, they could probably all have been saved in no time. REally sorry for your loss. 8 years is a long way.

People think that ich is nothing serious and a little garlic here and there and a bit of UV will solve the problem but it does not. Some strain of ich will probably be much harder to eliminate than others. Some even resist hyposalinity treatment. Ich is a powerfull killer and it must be taken seriously. What work for one might not work for others and for me garlic never worked, but hyposalinity did the trick. For some people that does not work and Cupramine is required in QT.


Thank you for all your condolences and advice. I did feed them with garlic, but every few days one of them died and just getting worse and worse. They eat normally in the day time, but at night they became covered with white and getting weaker day by day. I had raised the temperature to 81F day and night but it still didn't help at all. The total of 15 fish died with opened gills and mouths, looked very suffering. At the beginning when I had a few fish die, my husband had spoke to Jeff from J&L and had someone there test the water for me, the water was fine. He told my husband don't do anything when we thought we might need to put an extra powerhead if there is some lack of oxygen in the tank. At that time, the fish didn't show any ich, they just died with no reason. A week later they became all covered with ich.
I am devastated with the loss. Some of the fish I had were more than 8 years with me. I felt completely useless seing them die. It is a great sadness for me.

[Reefpins10]

I went to Island Pet and I was told if I raised the temperature it will help control the ich. I didn't know that was a bad idea :sad: . Yes 8 years is a long long time, I cried like a fool everytime I take their body out from the tank.
I used to have a lot of hair algae in my tank, but since I use bio pellet they starting to decrease more than half, so Jeff said it releases the toxin and takes away some oxygen from the tank. I was thinking he was right because I had 2 fish die at the same time when hair algae gone. That's why I thought I might need to add an extra powerhead. Nobody knew even myself but that was the beginning of the ich outbreak.

[Hawkaholic]

Sorry for your losses but I am wondering if there is something that you changed that may have affected your fish. Whether it be additives or different salt brand or maintenance. If you just started using the biopellets...that may be the cause. After 8 years something new (biopellets) gets thrown into the mix may have stessed your entire tank. For all of your fish to get ich and die off in a matter of weeks just doesn't seems right.

I don't believe in the quarantine thing. I've tried it and lost my fish. Why buy a fish and leave it in a small tank for months at a time. The fish is stressed already at the store then is stressed even more cuz its in a small tank for a few weeks or months. Then the fish gets sick so lets stress it even more by treating the tank.

As far as Ich...I won't elaborate cuz my views on the subject is alot different than most peoples on canreef.

[goby1]

It's a long haul back from an ich outbreak and I think sooner or later most of us have to deal with it. I started my tank in 2004 and in 2007 introduced a puffer that caused an ich outbreak that killed all but my goby. I used Kick Ich which I had to order from the US. I added fish slowly, one by one and kept them healthy and I haven't had any problems for years (knock on wood). I swear half this hobby is luck and voodoo.

[Reefpins10]

Sorry for your losses but I am wondering if there is something that you changed that may have affected your fish. Whether it be additives or different salt brand or maintenance. If you just started using the biopellets...that may be the cause. After 8 years something new (biopellets) gets thrown into the mix may have stessed your entire tank. For all of your fish to get ich and die off in a matter of weeks just doesn't seems right.

I don't believe in the quarantine thing. I've tried it and lost my fish. Why buy a fish and leave it in a small tank for months at a time. The fish is stressed already at the store then is stressed even more cuz its in a small tank for a few weeks or months. Then the fish gets sick so lets stress it even more by treating the tank.

As far as Ich...I won't elaborate cuz my views on the subject is alot different than most peoples on canreef.



I broke my 65 gallons fish tank on February, so I got a new 75 gallon in March. I think that made the fish stressed out caused to have ich. I don't think I am able to set up a quarantine tank if I get new fish, my place is very small there is no room left even for a small rubbermaid container.

[born]

I just had an ich breakout about 3-4 days ago. I kinda saw it on one fish but thought it wasnt anything(foolish mistake) then all a couple days later I looked at my powder brown tang, and on his fins, there it was, ich. I added a cleaner wrasse about 2-3 days ago. I usually only see him picking at my unicorn tang, and sometimes he'll go up to the powder brown but I dont really see him picking anything off. My cleaner shrimp doesnt seem to pick anything off the fish.
Today I'm soaking every piece of food(Nori/pellets/brine/mysis) in SeaChem's Garlic Guard. We'll see how this goes. *fingers crossed*

[globaldesigns]

Personally I would look at things that would cause stress to a tank. Thinks like off parameters, lack of oxygen, oh so many things.

Others will dispute this, others may agree, but I am a believer that you always have ICH, but if you have a healthy system, then the fishes immune is able to fight and don't succumb to ICH. Daniella3D has valid points if you wish to go the quarantine route, I myself don't quarantine.

What I am scratching my head with is that you lost everything. This shouldn't happen, even with ICH... So what is off that the fish didn't like and hampered their ability to survive (Besides the ICH)? I personally think you have another underlying issue that is aiding things.

Sorry for the losses!

[Hawkaholic]

I broke my 65 gallons fish tank on February, so I got a new 75 gallon in March. I think that made the fish stressed out caused to have ich. I don't think I am able to set up a quarantine tank if I get new fish, my place is very small there is no room left even for a small rubbermaid container.

That may have done it. With the new 75 its like setting up a new tank. You probably had a cycle and depending on the amount of fish added the cycle couldn't keep up to the load.

[Hawkaholic]

Personally I would look at things that would cause stress to a tank. Thinks like off parameters, lack of oxygen, oh so many things.

Others will dispute this, others may agree, but I am a believer that you always have ICH, but if you have a healthy system, then the fishes immune is able to fight and don't succumb to ICH. Daniella3D has valid points if you wish to go the quarantine route, I myself don't quarantine.

What I am scratching my head with is that you lost everything. This shouldn't happen, even with ICH... So what is off that the fish didn't like and hampered their ability to survive (Besides the ICH)? I personally think you have another underlying issue that is aiding things.

Sorry for the losses!

+1 Amen to that!!

[Reef Pilot]

I broke my 65 gallons fish tank on February, so I got a new 75 gallon in March. I think that made the fish stressed out caused to have ich. I don't think I am able to set up a quarantine tank if I get new fish, my place is very small there is no room left even for a small rubbermaid container.

When was the last time you added a new fish?

[George]

Some strain of ich will probably be much harder to eliminate than others. Some even resist hyposalinity treatment. Ich is a powerfull killer and it must be taken seriously. What work for one might not work for others and for me garlic never worked, but hyposalinity did the trick. For some people that does not work and Cupramine is required in QT.

I would like to have creditable prove that "...ich...Some even resist hypo-salinity treatment."
For me, hypo always work on ich. If hypo doesn't work on ich, it usually means salinity(SG) is not on target. SG should be 1.008-1.009 (or salinity 11 - 12). Or you don't hold the salinity at that level long enough. 4 to 5 weeks should be sufficient.

[Reefpins10]

I just had an ich breakout about 3-4 days ago. I kinda saw it on one fish but thought it wasnt anything(foolish mistake) then all a couple days later I looked at my powder brown tang, and on his fins, there it was, ich. I added a cleaner wrasse about 2-3 days ago. I usually only see him picking at my unicorn tang, and sometimes he'll go up to the powder brown but I dont really see him picking anything off. My cleaner shrimp doesnt seem to pick anything off the fish.
Today I'm soaking every piece of food(Nori/pellets/brine/mysis) in SeaChem's Garlic Guard. We'll see how this goes. *fingers crossed*


If you can do something PLEASE don't wait till the end like me. I was crossing my fingers untill I saw the last 4 fish struggling with their life in the last few days. I knew that was it. I hope you are not attached to your fish too much. Some of the Canreefers had met me, I can fool people with my strong outside look, but they don't know inside I am the most weakest one. I know I am going to become mentally crazy waiting for 10 weeks to put the new fish in. I can't stand looking at my empty tank right now. If not because of this tank related to someone and something which is sentimental for me, I would probably just shut it down for good.
The last time I bought a new fish that was when the first 2 fish had died for no reason. My Nemo died, I decided to replace him because my other female clown stopped eating. I thought she was grieving, I went to J&L got another clown but I had to return the next day because the female didn't accept it. I don't think that new Nemo I bought brought the ich into the tank.

[Aquaria]

Nothing against the store I love the place great service products and choices, but iv never had a fish survive from jnl. all my inverts did fine equipment is great but 2 died of ich a flasher wrasse and an indigo dottyback and another vanished after 2 days a randalls goby. the 2 died of ich didn't last more then 4 days I even tried the seachem paraguard dip with the dottyback guess my point is it's very likely that clown brought in the ich

[Reefpins10]

For me, I was never successful with Island Pet even just 10 blocks away from my appartment. Fish died in a couple day, no matter how heathy they were in the store. I have to drive all the way to J&L in the last 10 years since they have opened the store there. Most of my fish were from them, same with all my equipment. A loyal customer but never get any special discounts from them :twised:

[daniella3d]

Read about it on the net and you will see that some strain of ich can resist hypo. I did it twice, once it worked well and the next time it did not. Yes I do have a good refractometer and kept the water at 1.009 for 6 week. Yet when I raised the salinity back, ich was back in one week. Cupramine did it.

Not just because it always worked for you that it will always work for everyone. I did not beleive that either after one successful occurance but now I am a beleiver.

I would like to have creditable prove that "...ich...Some even resist hypo-salinity treatment."
For me, hypo always work on ich. If hypo doesn't work on ich, it usually means salinity(SG) is not on target. SG should be 1.008-1.009 (or salinity 11 - 12). Or you don't hold the salinity at that level long enough. 4 to 5 weeks should be sufficient.

[MKLKT]

I think I've had maybe 2 fish die from J&L, the rest have been fine and are all 6-12+ months in my system. My experience has been worse for livestock from King Ed, hardly anything I get from there lives.

[Hawkaholic]

Buying from different pet stores is another factor to consider. Buying from different stores means you can't really pinpoint where the problem came from. Research store in your area, ask to see their waters salinity. Alot of stores, suppliers, wholesalers keep their salinity low cuz they believe it keeps the parasites from staying alive. In a way...they are keeping their fish in hypo-salinity then you have to take the fish home and acclimate for 3-4 hours and lets face it...we don't do that.:mrgreen:

I wouldn't wait the 10 or so weeks reefpin. I would check all the pars and if they are all good...get a couple small fish that you want to keep and try them. I'm with globaldesigns...ich is always present in your tank. I have stated before in another related post that I have a Powder Blue Tang that gets ich all the time. In the beginning I would freak out and load up on the garlic or any other remedy I could think of but the ich came back. I gave up and just let him be...its been two years now and (not braggin or anything here) it is one of the nicest lookin PBs out there...and he still gets spots from time to time.

Sorry to sound winded reefpin...ich is a touchy subject...many reefers have different opinions on the subject. If it were me...I would be adding a couple small fish soon(tomorrow) to keep the cycle in check but check all the water pars first.

[daniella3d]

That's a myth, but in your case it is true. Some people will always have ich because they don't do anything about it. Period.

I don't have ich in my tank, never had, because I don't let it into my tank.

Ich is a parasite. There is no reason why it should be there at all, and no reason why fish have to live with it. Same has with cat fleas. When I had my blue hippo I first did an hyposalinity treatment and when it was cured, it never developped ich again. When I transfered it into the main tank there was no trace of ich and from that day it never showed any, not even when stressed from the move and new environment and blue hippo are known to be ich magnet.

I think that says it all.


Buying from different pet stores is another factor to consider. Buying from different stores means you can't really pinpoint where the problem came from. Research store in your area, ask to see their waters salinity. Alot of stores, suppliers, wholesalers keep their salinity low cuz they believe it keeps the parasites from staying alive. In a way...they are keeping their fish in hypo-salinity then you have to take the fish home and acclimate for 3-4 hours and lets face it...we don't do that.:mrgreen:

I wouldn't wait the 10 or so weeks reefpin. I would check all the pars and if they are all good...get a couple small fish that you want to keep and try them. I'm with globaldesigns...ich is always present in your tank. I have stated before in another related post that I have a Powder Blue Tang that gets ich all the time. In the beginning I would freak out and load up on the garlic or any other remedy I could think of but the ich came back. I gave up and just let him be...its been two years now and (not braggin or anything here) it is one of the nicest lookin PBs out there...and he still gets spots from time to time.

Sorry to sound winded reefpin...ich is a touchy subject...many reefers have different opinions on the subject. If it were me...I would be adding a couple small fish soon(tomorrow) to keep the cycle in check but check all the water pars first.

[Hawkaholic]

That's a myth, but in your case it is true. Some people will always have ich because they don't do anything about it. Period.

I don't have ich in my tank, never had, because I don't let it into my tank.

Ich is a parasite. There is no reason why it should be there at all, and no reason why fish have to live with it. Same has with cat fleas. When I had my blue hippo I first did an hyposalinity treatment and when it was cured, it never developped ich again. When I transfered it into the main tank there was no trace of ich and from that day it never showed any, not even when stressed from the move and new environment and blue hippo are known to be ich magnet.

I think that says it all.
You really need to start talking to "real people" rather than getting all of your crap info on the interweb...just sayin

[Reefpins10]

I have been going through a very difficult personal private life, plus the fish died even hit me harder, it just feels like someone rubbing more salt in my wound. Hawkaholic, thank you very much for your caring words. I may try to get a couple hardy cheap ones and see if it works or not. I am just afraid if it doesn't, I will feel more guilty for killing some more lives while I knew there is no waranty for it. Is there anything that can speed up the process to kill the ich faster without fish ? Please tell me, if anyone knows something I will try it.
And thanks again to all of you, your condolences and advice, it really helps me to go through this time.

[globaldesigns]

Daniella3D I just want to say that I value your advice even though I don't practice it. My advice to you is to maybe step back and look at things differently, as many of us take what you say to be very aggressive. You just want to beat it down our throats. Just remember non of us are experts, and if any one thinks they are, then this forum isn't for them.

Anyone wanting to quarantine, Daniella3d has some very valid points and practices. Do your research, and make your own decisions.

Just my 2 cents.

[cwatkins]

Others will dispute this, others may agree, but I am a believer that you always have ICH, but if you have a healthy system, then the fishes immune is able to fight and don't succumb to ICH. Daniella3D has valid points if you wish to go the quarantine route, I myself don't quarantine.

I'm a firm believer of this as well. Ich is always present, just like various organisms that are always present in humans. As long as your immune system is healthy, it'll keep it in check.

Also I'm 0 for 2 on QT, so I'm no longer going this route either...

[Ken]

Hey Reefpins10, sorry to hear of your loss, for someone to lose a part of your life is a big deal so I understand, after 8 years of the same livestock you should be proud of yourself for keeping them that long, I myself have livestock that has been with me for more than 10 years dating back in the 90s. I found that the longer the fish that I have the stronger their imunine system is. I also have Hippo Tangs aka paracanthurus hepatus, never in the history are they ick magnets in my tanks. Unlike many years ago we had a Powder Brown/Goldrim tang we got, they are ick magnet, shortly thereafter develope ick, covered in ick and thought it won't make it through the night, my wife quarantine the fish, nothing chemical involved or hypo, just good water quality,food and dim light and the fish came back well, eventually went to someone and still alive and bossy after 15 years today. Thanks to all the hobbyist for their support and lets help each out. regards Ken

[Aquaria]

I think I've had maybe 2 fish die from J&L, the rest have been fine and are all 6-12+ months in my system. My experience has been worse for livestock from King Ed, hardly anything I get from there lives.

Iv had the complete opposite problem lol my king Ed fish are fat and healthly lol

[George]

Regarding health of fish from different LFS, I think where you fish came from plays an important role in the health of your fish. Grant, the owner of island pets (formally Big Als in this region), made a bold claim that he has never heard of any collection station in Indonesia that is not using cyanide or dynamite to catch fish. I know using of cyanide or dynamite in Indonesia is wide spread. But Grant's claim is the strongest I have ever heard. Philippine fish is a crap shot as well.
I also notice a trend in recent years that LFS start to use island name or region name instead of country name to label fish origin. I am not sure it's intentional or unintentional. For example, Bali or Irian Jaya. They are all islands in Indonesia. Make sure to sharp up your geography before you purchase your fish :lol:

[globaldesigns]

Regarding health of fish from different LFS, I think where you fish came from plays an important role in the health of your fish. Grant, the owner of island pets (formally Big Als in this region), made a bold claim that he has never heard of any collection station in Indonesia that is not using cyanide or dynamite to catch fish. I know using of cyanide or dynamite in Indonesia is wide spread. But Grant's claim is the strongest I have ever heard. Philippine fish is a crap shot as well.
I also notice a trend in recent years that LFS start to use island name or region name instead of country name to label fish origin. I am not sure it's intentional or unintentional. For example, Bali or Irian Jaya. They are all islands in Indonesia. Make sure to sharp up your geography before you purchase your fish :lol:

Personally I don't buy any fish until the LFS does the following:
1.) has it for 1-3 weeks depending on the type of fish, treating for any parasites, diseases, etc. if needed.
2.) has it eating things like pellets, nori, etc... again varied foods depending on the species of fish.

Dennis @ Golds does a great job selling marine livestock, most of my fish have come from him and I can say I have NEVER lost a fish before its time due to disease, poor health, transport, etc.

[George]

Personally I don't buy any fish until the LFS does the following:
1.) has it for 1-3 weeks depending on the type of fish, treating for any parasites, diseases, etc. if needed.
2.) has it eating things like pellets, nori, etc... again varied foods depending on the species of fish.

Dennis @ Golds does a great job selling marine livestock, most of my fish have come from him and I can say I have NEVER lost a fish before its time due to disease, poor health, transport, etc.

Unfortunately cyanide poison can take its toll long after the fish get caught. It's still a good practice to ask your LFS where the fish comes from. If nothing else, you can tell your friends your fish is from Irian Jaya and look at their face. :biggrin:

[Reefpins10]

I always feel I can trust J&L when I buy fish from them. One day I was there and wanted to buy a pink square spot Anthias, but the lady working in the fish room told me that the fish didn't eat yet, and told me I had better wait for a week or so. Instead of just selling the fish like most LFS do, she impressed me with her honesty. Island Pet is the worst one, the staff don't know how to catch the fish, try to catch a fish in almost 15 minutes for just 1 (???). The last time I was there, I just told them straight I don't want to take a chance buying that fish anymore.

[Reefpins10]

Hey Reefpins10, sorry to hear of your loss, for someone to lose a part of your life is a big deal so I understand, after 8 years of the same livestock you should be proud of yourself for keeping them that long, I myself have livestock that has been with me for more than 10 years dating back in the 90s. I found that the longer the fish that I have the stronger their imunine system is. I also have Hippo Tangs aka paracanthurus hepatus, never in the history are they ick magnets in my tanks. Unlike many years ago we had a Powder Brown/Goldrim tang we got, they are ick magnet, shortly thereafter develope ick, covered in ick and thought it won't make it through the night, my wife quarantine the fish, nothing chemical involved or hypo, just good water quality,food and dim light and the fish came back well, eventually went to someone and still alive and bossy after 15 years today. Thanks to all the hobbyist for their support and lets help each out. regards Ken


I think I have found a clue as to why all my fish had died from ich, not even one had survived. I was adding Potassium powder in my tank without testing it. I wanted to color up my blue corals. I heard if you are using bio pellets it will lower your potassium in your tank, same with KH. All of my blood shrimps and cleaner shrimps were dying first before the fish. I was also cutting down their favorite frozen brine shrimp which I used to feed every night. I was also feeding them only once a day, mysis shrimp or pellets, and most of my fish didn't touch the pellets food at all. I think their immune system were weaker when they didn't have enough food. Yes I was very proud that I could keep all the fish that long, but I also couldn't believe I kill them all too, because of my stupidity.