MP10 ES Vs Tunze 6055...Decisions Decisions

[Slick Fork]

So, as the title says I'm considering adding/changing my powerhead setup in the tank. The tank is a 33 gallon 36" long 18" high and 12" front to back. Currently I have a Tunze 6045 and a Tunze 6055. The 6055 is controlled with my profilux and the 6045 of course is just a straight on and off powerhead. Also providing flow is the return pump from the sump ~600-700 gph.

I had started off considering replacing the 6045 with another 6055 to see if I could get any kind of wave effect going. I had a wavebox in my old tank and I really miss the waves, but there just isn't the real estate in this one for it. Anyways, I poked around a little and by the time I buy the 6055+$40 worth of cords to hook it up to the profilux, I could buy a vortech MP10 ES.

So, I have been doing some headscratching to try and come up with what would be the best solution for me. I like the 6055 and with two of them I think I could do some neat stuff with alternating flow. I like Tunze products and have always had good luck with them.

On the other hand, the Demo videos for the mp10 and other videos on youtube seem to blow the 6055 out of the water. There is the possibility that I might be able to transition to a single MP10 + sump return for flow in the tank, freeing up a 1-10v port on my profilux would be nice, the battery backup is cool, and having no wires in the tank really appeals to me. My big concern with the MP10 is noise and reliability.

So, for those of you who have MP10's
* Is a single MP10 +return pump going to be sufficient for SPS in my tank? Or is that an unrealistic expectation?
* How do you find the noise? This tank is right behind my couch in the living room, I don't want to add more noise if possible
* Can I connect 2 MP10 ES's together or do I need to go wireless to have connectivity? (thinking about future tank upgrades, possibly to a 4'x2' tank)

Given that the cost is the same what do you recommend, 6055x2 or MP10+?

Cheers

[BlueTang<3]

With the service i have been having from ecotech lately i would hands down go with the tunze. They dont look as cool but there dead silent.

[Palmer]

I use an MP40Wes not an MP10W but have been looking at the MP10's for an additional tank I am setting up that is the same size as yours pretty much.

I think an MP10W will be totally sufficient for your size tank.

I really have no concerns with the noise of my MP40Wes but that is more of a personal thing. I find the various modes on the Ecotechs and tremendous flow to be the best thing I have done for my tank to date. All my corals have increased polyp extension since adding the MP40Wes

I am not sure about the ability to sync the MP10W's if they are not the wireless. If you end up getting the MP10 I would go with the wireless just in case you want to upgrade to a different tank or add another it gives you more options...

Palmer

[abcha0s]

If you are concerned about noise, there is no decision to make. Vortechs are very loud compared to Tunze. Those who say otherwise can't here them because of the other loud pumps they own.

I own both Tunzes and Vortechs. Each has different pros and cons. The biggest benefit to Vortech is it's small in tank foot print. I also like the Vortech pump profiles but you really need more than one to take advantage of the more interesting modes.

I wouldn't recommend running only a single MP10. It helps to have multiple sources of flow.

Consider that with the MP10, you would need some kind of expansion module to control the pump with your controller. Of course you can run it independently, but if you already own a controller, and you buy an MP10, I am certain you will be shopping for the Vortech module in the near future.

Ultimately, both are good pumps. You really can't go wrong - unless noise is a problem for you, in which case the decision is simple.

- Brad

[Palmer]

If you are concerned about noise, there is no decision to make. Vortechs are very loud compared to Tunze. Those who say otherwise can't here them because of the other loud pumps they own.


I don't own tunze pumps so cant comment other than that my tank is basically quiet and I have an MP40Wes. If the occasional hum of the external motor which I still find quiet is an annoyance to some then I can see not getting one. I actually like the sound because it reminds me of what its doing in the tank ... lol

In a 33 G tank an MP10W is going to create turbulance all over the tank in my opinion regardless of where the flow is initially directed from.

[Madreefer]

You say that you might be upgrading to a bigger tank so if you got a MP10 you would most likely be upgrading to a MP40 as well. I have the MP40's. I started out with just one and thought it was a really nice powerhead. Since I got a second pump I am really impressed with all of the different wave patterns and different functions that 2 together have. IMHO it's best to have two. I'm with Bluetang<3 on the service. It's a real pain in the ass for Canadian customers to get any service. The only way I got any help was to get on RC and start a rant on Ecotechs thread. Yes they are loud but that can be fixed but it will void your warranty. I have a couple of sets of bearings ordered so as soon as they arrive my warranty will be shot. You take your chances with the Vortech but the functions are really cool.

[toxic111]

I have the same size tank as you with an old style (non es) MP10. Great flow. if you are after a decent wave you won't get it with a single one. the best I ever got was a 3/4" wave with the PH about 2" down in the water (from the top of the tank that is)

I leave mine on reef crest with speed set on max.. works great that way.

[Slick Fork]

I'd play it by ear as to whether to run it alone or not, if I go for it. I guess the trouble with noise is that it's all perception... one persons mild hum can be another persons ear splitting screech. Is there anything sort of standard or commonly found you guys could compare the noise to that might give me some idea?

As far as the controller goes that really is tough... The profilux offers an almost infinite number of settings to change manually, but I don't think it can actually do any of the sequences that the ecotech controller does. I could set up the wave, but I couldn't setup a wave that changes itself. In short, I don't think I would mind not having it plugged into the profilux.

What sort of issues have you had Wes?

[Slick Fork]

I have the same size tank as you with an old style (non es) MP10. Great flow. if you are after a decent wave you won't get it with a single one. the best I ever got was a 3/4" wave with the PH about 2" down in the water (from the top of the tank that is)

I leave mine on reef crest with speed set on max.. works great that way.

A wave would be nice, but I'll be really happy with a nice chaotic kind of flow to keep everything mixed up. I sort of wonder if this tank is too small for the Tunze Nano streams to really shine. I think I have a fair amount of stale water with the two existing pumps.

Do you have any other flow in the tank? Deadspots? What's your take on the noise issue?

Cheers

[Palmer]

Here's a vid of the MP10W on a 37 G aquarium. The person that made the vid cycled through the different modes to show the sound for each. After looking at this it seems like the Reef crest mode which i use on the 40 is the least oppressive lol... But at least this gives you an idea of what it sounds like


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cI_BG2sUZw


Here's a pretty nice wave made on a 36" 30 G tank..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3RYioaSFvI

[viperfish]

I have a 6055 in my RSM and MP40 in my 150 SPS tank, IMO you can't beat the build quality of Tunze. The option of choosing the direction of flow is definitely a plus for the Tunze. I do like my MP40 and feature wise it's no different than the MP10. My MP40 does a good Job but a couple of larger Tunzes with a controller would be just as good. I haven't had my MP40 for that long so I can't speak for longevity but I do know it's damn near impossible to kill a Tunze. I guess my point is that MP10, MP40, and MP60 have become a bit of a status thing in this hobby and IMO the equally capable Tunze PH's don't get enough credit.

[toxic111]

A wave would be nice, but I'll be really happy with a nice chaotic kind of flow to keep everything mixed up. I sort of wonder if this tank is too small for the Tunze Nano streams to really shine. I think I have a fair amount of stale water with the two existing pumps.

Do you have any other flow in the tank? Deadspots? What's your take on the noise issue?

Cheers

besides my split return there is no other flow in my tank. I honestly don't find the mp10 that loud... usually don't hear it over the tv. I have been debating getting another mp10... just for some more flow as there are a couple minor dead spots, nothing that serious. The MP10 gives enough flow to keep my BTA & clam happy...

[Slick Fork]

Here's a vid of the MP10W on a 37 G aquarium. The person that made the vid cycled through the different modes to show the sound for each. After looking at this it seems like the Reef crest mode which i use on the 40 is the least oppressive lol... But at least this gives you an idea of what it sounds like


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cI_BG2sUZw


Here's a pretty nice wave made on a 36" 30 G tank..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3RYioaSFvI

The video's good for hearing what it sounds like... the sound is not unlike the wavebox I had on the old tank. The tricky part is how to set the volume on the computer speakers.

[Slick Fork]

I have a 6055 in my RSM and MP40 in my 150 SPS tank, IMO you can't beat the build quality of Tunze. The option of choosing the direction of flow is definitely a plus for the Tunze. I do like my MP40 and feature wise it's no different than the MP10. My MP40 does a good Job but a couple of larger Tunzes with a controller would be just as good. I haven't had my MP40 for that long so I can't speak for longevity but I do know it's damn near impossible to kill a Tunze. I guess my point is that MP10, MP40, and MP60 have become a bit of a status thing in this hobby and IMO the equally capable Tunze PH's don't get enough credit.

No disagreement on the quality of the Tunze's. My only real complaint is that I "think" that the Tunze might have too much of a concentrated stream of water. Maybe swapping the 6045 out for a second 6055 and setting them up to complement each other would be the fix I'm looking for to get that randomized chaotic flow in the tank...

It'd be nice if stores would actually set-up and showcase the products they sell so people wouldn't be stuck buying blind. I'd love to Hear one in action!

[xblade]

I'm running an MP 10 and a MP 40 ,both WES...Have never run a Tunze, so I know nothing about them.
I love my MP's so far.My tank has improved alot since installation.The fish and coral are loving them too.
I have them synced up at either end of my 77, and they do a great job.
I have them 7" down on both sides and still get some great wave action.They are a little noisy for sure,but not too crazy IMO( I acually find my mp 10 more anoying).Some settings are a little more anoying than others,but you can adj power down a little for more quiet operation as well.
I think 1 MP 10 would do your tank no prob.But 2 would be much better as you could dial down on the power for longer life and quieter operation
Reef crest is my fav as well

[abcha0s]

Yes they are loud but that can be fixed but it will void your warranty. I have a couple of sets of bearings ordered so as soon as they arrive my warranty will be shot.

Please share more about this? I've only had my Vortechs for a month or so and had no idea they could be modded. I would love them to be quiet.

What should I google?

My only real complaint is that I "think" that the Tunze might have too much of a concentrated stream of water.

You can mod the Tunze powerheads by cutting the flow director and making it shorter. This creates a wider flow pattern similar to the Vortechs. It doesn't even void the warranty. If you ever want to change it back, you just buy a new casing.

- Brad

[Ken]

Hi, I have been using Tunze for years, products are great and never had any issues of breaking down, in fact I never clean any of my Tunze streams and they still perform, thought about the ecotech but given the history of noise and support, we'll see. I do like the wireless idea though, and the fact that you don't have the cable submerged in the tank. So for me its the Tunze. Regards Ken...oh maybe I'll clean the Tunze and probsbly get a better flow action .

[phi delt reefer]

new nanostream - 6095; might be something to look into;

http://glassbox-design.com/2011/tunze-nanostream-6095/

[Doug]

I have two MP 20,s {well just sold one} and they work flawless. I owned several Tunze streams, only the 6080,s my fav. Of course on larger tanks. If I did it all over again, I would stick with the Tunze products. As I said my Vortechs have been perfect so no complaint but for the price and reliability I would stick with Tunze.

At least thats my personal preference. For my smaller cube, besides the MP 20 I have running, I just ordered the Hydor 1400 stream pump. Hard to beat it @ $54.

[Madreefer]

Please share more about this? I've only had my Vortechs for a month or so and had no idea they could be modded. I would love them to be quiet.

What should I google?



You can mod the Tunze powerheads by cutting the flow director and making it shorter. This creates a wider flow pattern similar to the Vortechs. It doesn't even void the warranty. If you ever want to change it back, you just buy a new casing.

- Brad

I got this from Bluetang<3. Also Christy tried this but had a little mishap.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1901337

[DiverDude]

That thread is about replacing worn bearings. If you have a new unit, the noise it makes is the noise it makes (although it may just be that the bearing quality used is not very good and putting better ones will make it more quiet).

I too am torn on the wavebox vs MP40 decision. The wavebox is overpriced (as is all Tunze stuff but the quality and durability is impressive. The Vertex units have great features but to make the most of them, you need 2 or more and at THAT price, the wavebox becomes a deal. Add to that the fact that it's pretty much a given that the bearings in the wetside will need replacing at some point and I'm leaning towards the wavebox -or perhaps even a DIY version.

I got this from Bluetang<3. Also Christy tried this but had a little mishap.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1901337

[Madreefer]

The only noise my vortechs makes is from the dryside. There was no noise when I first got the first one, after a month of use I started to hear it from 30 ft away. So if you want to call it worn out bearings so be it. I call it chitty bearings. I bought a used one and I can hear it from the same distance now as well. Trying to get warranty in Canada is an absolute joke so rather than go threw all the bullchit like myself and others have had than I would recommend you do it yourself if the dryside starts to irritate you. Like I said earlier I really like the Vortechs and all of the features that they come with. But for $1000 for 2 pumps you really should'nt hear the pumps over the surround sound TV's in most peoples home. Alot of guys say that they only hear the whirr of the wetside, not in my case and i'm hard of hearing to begin with. It's happened with 2 out of the 3 pumps i've experienced. Sorry not trying to turn this in to a rant, just trying to help out.

[abcha0s]

I too am torn on the wavebox vs MP40 decision. The wavebox is overpriced (as is all Tunze stuff but the quality and durability is impressive. The Vertex units have great features but to make the most of them, you need 2 or more and at THAT price, the wavebox becomes a deal. Add to that the fact that it's pretty much a given that the bearings in the wetside will need replacing at some point and I'm leaning towards the wavebox -or perhaps even a DIY version.

Waves are supplemental flow. The interesting thing is that they are virtually unaffected by whatever crazy flow patterns your powerheads create. A wave by itself would not create the flow required for a healthy high flow system.

For pure wave generation, you can't beat a wavebox. It is purpose built for generating waves, and it works very well. The trouble with using Vortechs for waves is that you can't use them for waves and flow at the same time. You could rotate through modes, but you can't do both things at the same time.

Ideally, you would have a wave system and powerheads. The wave system could be a wavebox or two Vortechs. If you go the Vortech route, this implies an ideal minimum of 4 Vortechs - two for waves and two for flow. However, if you put 4 Vortechs in your tank, there are much more interesting things you can do with them other than waves and random flow. My guess is that with four Vortechs you would give up on the wave and setup another type of flow dynamic. While possible, I don't think many Vortech owners actually use them to create a sustained wave.

The only thing I don't like about the Tunze waveboxes is that they are louder than I expected. I'm not sure if I have mine installed wrong, but it is slightly louder than my Vortechs.

At the end of the day, if you want a wave then use a wavebox. Building a wavebox into your tank design is actually fairly easy to do and may help conceal the box, but it's not a big money saver - you still need the pump and controller and may end up buying a Tunze wavebox just to get the parts. If your not trying to be creative in concealing the box, then just buy the Tunze.

- Brad

[DiverDude]

Brad,

Thanks for this; I was under the impression that the wave motion would replace the need for other forms of flow in the tank. I guess I have more research to do on this. :neutral:

[mike31154]

It's pretty much a given that a motor on the outside of your tank is going to be more audible than a fully submerged unit. If the sound is a concern, go overkill and get an MP40 for your 3 foot tank, the footprint is not that much bigger than an MP10 and you'll be able to run it at a lower speed, minimizing the sound of the dry side. Creating a wave with them is the mode in which you're going to hear them the most, since they ramp up from idle to 100% in short pulses. Or stay with your Tunzes.

I have two MP40W ES running on my 77 gal and I use the EcoSmart TSM (Tidal Swell Mode) with the speed setting up to about 85%. This is similar to the Reefcrest & Lagoon random flow modes available before the ES drivers were introduced. Ideally this mode is used with 3 pumps, one on each end & one at the back, but it works quite well with two on a narrower tank such as mine. In this mode the pump speeds vary over a period of several hours, so at times the sound level is higher and when the speed lowers, so does the sound. I don't have a problem with the sound my VorTechs make, my surround sound system has no problem masking them, but clearly they're not for people wanting to keep an ultra quiet tank. Not sure why someone would void a warranty and risk destroying an expensive dry side in an attempt to lower the sound a few decibels by changing the bearings on their own. Like any other component with moving parts, they are subject to wear and will at some point require service or replacement. This is actually where the VorTech wet side has an advantage IMO, since the wear items are inexpensive and easily user replaced. Dry side is best left alone and sent back for repair. How many other pumps or powerheads out there include internal sensors which will shut the pump down if it overheats? Not that that's a common occurence, but features like this do not come cheap and could easily prevent more serious consequences. My two VorTechs have been running without issue for more than two years.

From time to time, when the mood strikes me, I switch from TSM mode to NTM (Nutrient Transport Mode). Two presses of the Mode button, and away we go in short pulse mode on both pumps with the accompanying rise in sound levels. This creates the wave action sought after by some hobbyists and it works as advertised, pulling all kinds of gunk from the bottom & out of the rocks. After about an hour or so of that, Mode button twice and it's back to TSM mode, less sound and more of a random, chaotic flow pattern. Every year for the past three, I've managed to pick up a used VorTech someone was selling. The first one I purchased new. Spread out the cost and I now have two spares & flexibility for future tank upgrade. Works for me.

[Slick Fork]

Waves are supplemental flow. The interesting thing is that they are virtually unaffected by whatever crazy flow patterns your powerheads create. A wave by itself would not create the flow required for a healthy high flow system.

For pure wave generation, you can't beat a wavebox. It is purpose built for generating waves, and it works very well. The trouble with using Vortechs for waves is that you can't use them for waves and flow at the same time. You could rotate through modes, but you can't do both things at the same time.

Ideally, you would have a wave system and powerheads. The wave system could be a wavebox or two Vortechs. If you go the Vortech route, this implies an ideal minimum of 4 Vortechs - two for waves and two for flow. However, if you put 4 Vortechs in your tank, there are much more interesting things you can do with them other than waves and random flow. My guess is that with four Vortechs you would give up on the wave and setup another type of flow dynamic. While possible, I don't think many Vortech owners actually use them to create a sustained wave.

The only thing I don't like about the Tunze waveboxes is that they are louder than I expected. I'm not sure if I have mine installed wrong, but it is slightly louder than my Vortechs.

At the end of the day, if you want a wave then use a wavebox. Building a wavebox into your tank design is actually fairly easy to do and may help conceal the box, but it's not a big money saver - you still need the pump and controller and may end up buying a Tunze wavebox just to get the parts. If your not trying to be creative in concealing the box, then just buy the Tunze.

- Brad

My Nano wavebox was loud as well. And you actually maybe answered the volume question on how loud the vortechs are. You're right as well about needing supplementary flow. When I first had my wavebox you could see it just lift all the crud out of the rock but if I turned off the powerheads the crud would just sort of "wiggle" in place.

[Madreefer]

Sorry but I guess i'm kinda hijacking this thread. This is what one of my Vortechs sounds like, the one that was replaced on warranty sounded like this. I took this off of the other site and the owner was told to contact Ecotech. 3 pumps and 2 have sounded this way. Maybe I got ones from a bad batch.:confused: My reason for replacing the bearings myself is due to time it takes for Canadian customers to get warranty work. The ones I will be replacing are in a used pump that I bought from a fellow canreefer so no receipt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JdobfMnfa8

[Slick Fork]

Sorry but I guess i'm kinda hijacking this thread. This is what one of my Vortechs sounds like, the one that was replaced on warranty sounded like this. I took this off of the other site and the owner was told to contact Ecotech. 3 pumps and 2 have sounded this way. Maybe I got ones from a bad batch.:confused: My reason for replacing the bearings myself is due to time it takes for Canadian customers to get warranty work. The ones I will be replacing are in a used pump that I bought from a fellow canreefer so no receipt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JdobfMnfa8

Don't worry about hijacking... I appreciate all the comments good and bad. I saw your threads trying to get these issues resolved... I'd be banging my head against the wall too. I have dealt with that distributor before and didn't have a good experience either. If I do go with the Vortech I will make sure I go with one distributed by aqua-digital.

One thing that's becoming clear, people either love them or hate them... very few in between.

[Palmer]

I definitly would not be happy if my Vortech sounded like yours Madreefer. I hate manufacturer problems especially when they happen to good products. When my tunze osmolator gave me issues I was really miffed....

[DiverDude]

There seems to be an underlying theme here and that is that Vortech owners like the product in that it provides a rich feature set. On the other side of the coin, they feel that a FIVE HUNDRED DOLLAR pump should be of a quality that should not have inferior bearings in it that are either noisy or fail after a a year or so of use.

I have to say that I agree with that, 100%

If I'm honest, that's what makes me anxious about buying the product. AND, it should be added, I have a full shop and changing the bearings on either side does not scare me in the least; I just don't see why I should have to when I'm spending that kind of money for a pump.

[Slick Fork]

Thanks for all the comments and discussion. Diverdude I think summed it up perfectly. For the kind of money the Vortech's cost there shouldn't be as many issues with quality control as there seem to be. It was acceptable when the MP40 was brand new and revolutionary, but by now they should have the design a little more refined.

In the end though, I think I may have found a sign... A used Tunze 6055 WITH a profilux cable came up for sale... can't ask for much more can I :mrgreen: