Palythoas experience (almost in hospital)

[waynemah]

Hi All,

I'm fairly new to this hobby (just over a month in), I bought my tank used *turnkey*, or so I thought.

I paid a professional to help with the move of my tank, we all got sick for over a week (including my dogs). Fever, chills, body aches, headache... I would say it was the worst feelings i've encountered. Since I've owned the tank I havn't felt 100% always feeling a little sniffly and sore.

With the tank purhcase I received an abundance of brown/green palythoas. I liked them at first, but once my tank cycled they started to grow everywhere. I wanted to remove them slowly out of my tank. Aparently removing them is a pain (litteraly).

Last night I had taken a very small patch off of the rock, this came off very easy like a small carpet. My idea was to slowly remove this stuff and give it away. This morning I woke up to a few pieces of SPS completely bleached, a plate coral retracted and the fish not doing well. This frustrated me and they had to be removed. I slowly took every rock out one at a time and cut the pieces off, using gloves and a resperator (didn't want to take chances). This was around 7:30 AM, I then did a water change and removed the large offending rock all together.

At 10:00 ish it hit me, fever, chills, sore everywhere. By 1:00PM I was debaiting going to the hospital once again. Just now do I feel ok enough to type at a computer (currently dizzy and a temperature of 38+ degrees).

I guess the moral of the story is, the palys that I have CAN kill your tank and harm you/family/pets. I wore glasses/gloves and resperator and still got owned, along with loosing some SPS and possibly my fav plate coral :(

Be careful with these things, I believe they can produce airborn toxins that can hurt you. My wife is affeted as well, and she was only around the tank momentarily (not touching anything).

Attached is a picture of the now removed palythoa.

[fencer]

been there and done that

[Edmonton newbie]

fencer did you just create a new sn to tell us all about your latest adventure? lol

[fencer]

no ...just too weird

[corrosionjerry]

I think I just purchased some of this stuff yesterday...

I put it into my tank with my bare hands.... guess I must just be lucky not to get sick or is it because some people are more sensitive then others to it?

Will use rubber gloves from now on when I am moving these critters

[waynemah]

I think the toxins are released when you pull the off the rock or squish them. I would suggest moving them to a separate piece of rock to control the spread.

[daniella3d]

That's probably it. Some people will die if sting by a bee...I just develop a small bump that is gone in a few days.

A lot of people can't help but to feel sick, once they learn that there is a potential problem with a toxin. Since here we can read that the man used a respirator, it is obvious that he knew about the risk and that could have affected the perception or even created the reaction. A bit like someone fainting just to the sight of a needle :).

I think I just purchased some of this stuff yesterday...

I put it into my tank with my bare hands.... guess I must just be lucky not to get sick or is it because some people are more sensitive then others to it?

Will use rubber gloves from now on when I am moving these critters

[hillegom]

Google palytoxin. You will read that is the second most deadly toxin in the world.
Good thing not all palys have this toxin.

[waynemah]

That's probably it. Some people will die if sting by a bee...I just develop a small bump that is gone in a few days.

A lot of people can't help but to feel sick, once they learn that there is a potential problem with a toxin. Since here we can read that the man used a respirator, it is obvious that he knew about the risk and that could have affected the perception or even created the reaction. A bit like someone fainting just to the sight of a needle :).


I believe you are referring to hypochondria, but does not explain why my dogs and wife (which knows nothing about palytoxin) were sick as well. Dogs were weasing and slept for most of the day, they both were warmer than usual.

Googled hypochondiac dogs, resulted in nothing.

I used the resperator during the fragging of the palys, I then removed it once in another part of the house (upstairs).

[cale262]

I bought a couple of rocks covered in these Paly's about 6 weeks ago, the person I bought them from took them out of his tank wearing CL gloves and I didn't think anything of it. When I got home I took them out of the bucket with my bare hands, there are so many paly's on these rocks that there was really no rock to grab without grabbing a paly, I felt a couple of them pop under my fingers, even though I was trying to be careful, there was just nowhere else to grab the rocks and the are heavy enough that I couldn't help but pop one or two....Either way I didn't really think anything of it but I did spend the next week in bed very ill with some of these very symptoms.

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg293/cale262/Aquaruims/Niner-Niner/th_IMG_0279.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg293/cale262/Aquaruims/Niner-Niner/?action=view&current=IMG_0279.jpg)

[Flash]

Well... i will voice my opinion and say that I am glad people are becoming aware of instances such as these. I guess ignorance is bliss to some people...
This is very important information for people to know, for the protection of themselves and their families!

There are a lot of new people to this hobby, and they likely have no idea that the pretty things in their tanks can be harmful!

[apex82]

I had similar symptoms however it only lasted in afternoon and night. The kicker is... I had no paly's or zoa's at that point. I was touching and moving rock with bare hands with a small cut on my hand... I always wear gloves regardless if I am touching anything now.

[RedCoralEdmonton]

lol i would like the vegas odds on the fact that there is 2 Wayne Mahs in edmonton within a week of each other that both got a bad case of Palytoxin poisoning....

Steve

[waynemah]

lol i would like the vegas odds on the fact that there is 2 Wayne Mahs in edmonton within a week of each other that both got a bad case of Palytoxin poisoning....

Steve

Please tell me your kidding?!?

[RedCoralEdmonton]

lol not at all, Wayne was at the reef meet on the weekend with his second bout.... unless this is one big joke and you are one and the same....

Steve

[fencer]

no Steve i am not psycho or split

[ALang]

Yep, Steve is telling you no lie.
I was there when he told us that.
So naturally, Edmonton Newbie, who was also there with his wonderful spouse, also thought that it was one and the same Wayne who had that happened to him.
You should come to our next meeting, just so that we can verify that you are really not him, and vise-versa.:mrgreen:
Lenny.

[Murminator]

been there and done that

What Wayne err ummm Wayne said said...... been there done that Myself, wife , and dog http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=68234

[fencer]

Taking bets ......

[waynemah]

Taking bets ......

Hmmm I want in!

[Kevotron]

Uh Oh....... after seeing that picture I think I got a few of those in my tank......... :neutral:

[daniella3d]

Pets often can feel when their owners are not feeling well..either physically or if they are not happy. At least my dog does and when I am not feeling right, hangry or not in my best mood my dog usualy look miserable and sleep most of the day on her pillow.

I had dogs all of my live and it was like that for all of them, no exception.

Lets see..how many people died from simple food poisoning? How many people actualy even wash their hands before handling food or eating?

"To better quantify the impact of foodborne diseases on health in the United States, we compiled and analyzed information from multiple surveillance systems and other sources. We estimate that foodborne diseases cause approximately 76 million illnesses, 325,000 hospitalizations, and 5,000 deaths in the United States each year. Known pathogens account for an estimated 14 million illnesses, 60,000 hospitalizations, and 1,800 deaths. Three pathogens, Salmonella, Listeria, and Toxoplasma, are responsible for 1,500 deaths each year, more than 75% of those caused by known pathogens, while unknown agents account for the remaining 62 million illnesses, 265,000 hospitalizations, and 3,200 deaths. Overall, foodborne diseases appear to cause more illnesses but fewer deaths than previously estimated."

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol5no5/mead.htm


Are we going to stop eating? Because the risk of dying from eating something bad is quite a bit more than the risk of even being sick by handling zoanthids and paly.

I never seen a real credible account if someone's death caused by zoanthids or palythoas in the aquarium trade.

How many people handle zoanthids and palythoas bare hand without ever having a single issue?

I don't understand the panic about this, since we live with much more dangerous stuff and much more potent stuff everyday and we don't even care. YOu say that palytoxin is the most potent stuff...but a single tiny winy virus is a lot more potent because that's all it takes to kill you. NOw the palytoxin will not kill you if you simply touch it. People should use common sense.

hypochondria, but does not explain why my dogs and wife (which knows nothing about palytoxin) were sick as well. Dogs were weasing and slept for most of the day, they both were warmer than usual.

There is no such thing as hypochondriac dogs, but there is such thing in humans...very very often.

Googled hypochondiac dogs, resulted in nothing.

I used the resperator during the fragging of the palys, I then removed it once in another part of the house (upstairs).

[asylumdown]

Does anyone know of a testing facility in Canada that will do toxicology reports on these things? I've been trying to find a lab online that privately tests for palytoxin but all I'm coming up with is academic papers. Considering the way frags are traded, spread, and distributed in the reefer community, of an offending species of paly came in on a shipment at some point it would only take a few months for it to start showing up in lots of peoples tanks.

I'm thinking of all sorts of inappropriate STD jokes here, but maybe a more sanitized version would be that our tanks could probably all play the reefer equivalent of 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon, so if there is in fact a highly poisonous strain making it's rounds in the underground frag trade (I make it sound so dangerous), it would be nice to get it confirmed with a chemical test.

Maybe we could all chip in and send a sample of a frag from someone who thinks they've been poisoned and get it confirmed. If the worst were true, it would be a really strong motivator for everyone to start tracing back who they've gotten/given frags to.

[reef-keeper]

Does anyone know of a testing facility in Canada that will do toxicology reports on these things?

Why not ask someone in the biology dept. at the U of A?