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Midway
03-28-2011, 05:48 AM
Hi there, my friend just gave something like 50 pounds of live rock, well not that live anymore cause he had them without water and plus he had a major coral die off on his tank. He no longer has his tank running that's why he gave them to me. The advice that i need is that is it enough to put in boiled water? Or do i need to do somthing else to really clean them cause i dont want to put in my sump if they still some bad stuff.

Thanks,

Manny

eli@fijireefrock.com
03-28-2011, 05:55 AM
Well if all the rocks are bone dry, that means every living thing in there is dead.
you need to have the rocks cycled separate than your running saltwater tank with a heater lights lots of water movement and wait,probably you need to do a few water changes during that period.

ultreef
03-28-2011, 06:07 AM
Why did all his coral die? are you sure it has nothing to do with the rocks? maybe the rocks been thru a copper treatment?

Since the rocks are already dried. I would do an acid bath, muriatic acid, to remove a tiny layer of the surface and any po4 trapped within. Then cycle as normal, in a bin of course.

eli@fijireefrock.com
03-28-2011, 06:18 AM
Why did all his coral die? are you sure it has nothing to do with the rocks? maybe the rocks been thru a copper treatment?

Since the rocks are already dried. I would do an acid bath, muriatic acid, to remove a tiny layer of the surface and any po4 trapped within. Then cycle as normal, in a bin of course.

Forgot to mention the copper part.
i like the idea with muriatic or hydrochloric acid,be very careful if you are going threw with the acid treatment.Very corrosive to anything it comes in contact with.

Navarchus
03-28-2011, 06:26 AM
Can you tell me more about the acid thing?

eli@fijireefrock.com
03-28-2011, 06:35 AM
Can you tell me more about the acid thing?

Muriatic or Hydrocloric acid is a highly corrosive,strong mineral acid.Hydrogen Chloride solution.
In simple dilute the acid with water place your rock in it, make sure its outside or very well vemtilated acid will react with calcium (your rock is a calcium base) stripping a thin layer out into solution, clean your rock afterwords thoroughly with some fresh water test for ph and your rock is ready for a cycling period.

Midway
03-28-2011, 06:39 AM
I dont think these rocks have been in copper treatment ever, i think his corals died because he was using tap water and i told not to. Anyways, how long would i need to cycle them for? Do i need to be checking for water parameters as well? Would i have an ammonia spike in there?

ElGuappo
03-28-2011, 08:33 AM
if it was me i would cook the rock for a min of 3 months. AKA cycle it as per usual but in the dark.. NO LIGHT AT ALL... this will cycle the rock and the lack of a photo period will kill off any remaining algae spores etc.... and yes dry or not there is still living ( OK NOT LIVING BUT WILL SEED THE TANK) algae on it... i have started with dry rock a couple of times and still come up with valonia and red turf....

Navarchus
03-28-2011, 06:31 PM
Muriatic or Hydrocloric acid is a highly corrosive,strong mineral acid.Hydrogen Chloride solution.
In simple dilute the acid with water place your rock in it, make sure its outside or very well vemtilated acid will react with calcium (your rock is a calcium base) stripping a thin layer out into solution, clean your rock afterwords thoroughly with some fresh water test for ph and your rock is ready for a cycling period.

IS THERE ANY DANGER? HOW DO YOU HEANDEL IT? HOW DO YPU POT THE ROCK IN AND HOW DO YOU TAKE IT OUT?

Midway
03-28-2011, 07:37 PM
Guys, do I really need to cycle these rocks even though they're going in my sumps?

Navarchus
03-28-2011, 07:54 PM
Sure you have? Isn’t the sump part of your system? It is the same water isn’t it?
If you don’t cycle them you will get a pick of ammonia and may suffer from fatalities in the worst scenario or you will get tons of algae in the best one.

mark
03-28-2011, 09:08 PM
IS THERE ANY DANGER? HOW DO YOU HEANDEL IT? HOW DO YPU POT THE ROCK IN AND HOW DO YOU TAKE IT OUT?

huge danger!

eli@fijireefrock.com
03-28-2011, 10:07 PM
IS THERE ANY DANGER? HOW DO YOU HEANDEL IT? HOW DO YPU POT THE ROCK IN AND HOW DO YOU TAKE IT OUT?

The safest way working with acid in this situation anyways.
Place rocks in a bucket full of water have a couple pump in to circulate the water.add a ph probe to have a constant readout.
Slowly add the acid till you hit your desirable ph. Run it for few hours or maybe a day.
Remove all the rocks wash thourouhgly acid wash is done.
Now it's time for cycle the rocks ,never in your main system.totally separate tub.

Oh use gloves to take the rocks out or wait till your ph is readind 7.5 or higher.
Or maybe call me I will remove the rock out with my leather hands,lol,

Navarchus
03-29-2011, 12:09 AM
Sorry for all the typos.....my laptop is in service and a friend lent me an old laptop but I am not used to this keyboard.

Back to the topic…..what is my desired ph in this scenario?

MrsBugmaster
03-29-2011, 07:07 PM
Here are a couple links all about the acid cleaning. I found it to be very heplful.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1914426&highlight=cleaning+rock

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1587539

Hope that helps you.

phi delt reefer
03-29-2011, 08:22 PM
Here are a couple links all about the acid cleaning. I found it to be very heplful.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1914426&highlight=cleaning+rock

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1587539

Hope that helps you.

very informative read there MrsBugmaster.

I purchased some dry eco rock from eco-reefer - anyone know if i should do the bleach/muratic acid bath/possible lanthanum treatment? Are the eco/marco rocks totally "neutral" or do they have some buildup still contained within from whatever prehistoric reef they came from?

also - can we use just a regular rubbermaid container or will the bleach/acid eat through the container?

MrsBugmaster
03-29-2011, 09:08 PM
I got some eco rock and put it in RO/Di water with a powerhead for a week then tested water for phosphates. It did test a smaller lever of phosphate so I did the acid wash to be safe. You can use any rubber maid type container.

Midway
03-30-2011, 02:38 AM
So how long do i need to cycle these rocks for then? Until the Water parameters are within acceptable ranges?

Zarstar
03-30-2011, 03:25 AM
There seems to be a huge issue here that nobody is talking about. IF you choose to do the acid bath it will clean your rock BUT BE WARNED it will also drastically weaken the rock (depending on the density, structure and the organism that created it).

IF I was going to do this I would use white vinegar, for two reasons:

1) it comes in a dilute easily available solution that cant harm your rock with a short bath
2) vinegar will have a similar effect as any other acid on calcium carbonate but the residue is not only non toxic but will feed bacteria capable of cycling your rock. white vinegar is acetic acid.

If you still feel uncomfortable with the copper situation run some copper resin on it for a week or so. that should do it.

FUN FACT: you can dissolve an egg in vinegar (try that before you dip your coral in HCl :lol:)

Zar

Madreefer
03-30-2011, 03:43 AM
Just boil them and put them in some RO water. Than put one chunk a week in your sump until they are all in. I put 100lbs of rock in my sump that way a couple of years ago with no issues at all.You already stated that the die off was from something else other than a copper treatment. Your buddy should know if he added copper or not.

Navarchus
03-30-2011, 04:56 AM
So vinegar will have the same effects on rocks contaminated by cooper?

what is the water vinegar ratio and do you use tap water or di?

eli@fijireefrock.com
03-30-2011, 05:08 AM
There seems to be a huge issue here that nobody is talking about. IF you choose to do the acid bath it will clean your coral BUT BE WARNED it will also drastically weaken the coral (depending on the density, structure and the organism that created it).

IF I was going to do this I would use white vinegar, for two reasons:

1) it comes in a dilute easily available solution that cant harm your coral with a short bath
2) vinegar will have a similar effect as any other acid on calcium carbonate but the residue is not only non toxic but will feed bacteria capable of cycling your rock. white vinegar is acetic acid.

FUN FACT: you can dissolve an egg in vinegar (try that before you dip your coral in HCl :lol:)

Zar

Did i miss something..
The rock is already dead nothing living in or on it what acid bath is for cleaning the rocks well surface shaving by dissolving i small layer.

Zarstar
03-30-2011, 05:32 AM
Did i miss something..
The rock is already dead nothing living in or on it what acid bath is for cleaning the rocks well surface shaving by dissolving i small layer.

Sorry i meant rock.

This is a procedure for cleaning heavy metals off of pourous surfaces such as plastic or in this case reef rock (calcium carbonate).

Vinegar is a much better idea and is almost fool proof (my opinion). Most WHITE vinegar you buy is 5% so its already diluted but you can dilute that by half and it will still work, just slower. Using tap water, for rinsing, treated with a chelating agent is ideal because adding extra "tap water conditioner" will scavenge any released metal ions, doubling the dose is sufficient with no adverse effects.

If you look closely at the pics of that other link wtithin this thread... that rock is ruined, I am certain you could crumble that stuff in your hands. he left it in acid for way to long (my opinion)

eli@fijireefrock.com
03-30-2011, 05:44 AM
vinegar for sure is safer way but and pricier.
You could easily dilute the acid to a required PH, simply by following my steps on having a PH probe in the tub with water prior to adding the acid.

(If you look closely at the pics of that other link wtithin this thread... that rock is ruined, I am certain you could crumb that stuff in your hands. he left it in acid for way to long (my opinion)
I have to agree with you on that.I simply skimmed through the thread by the way the photos are presented it looks like he used way too much acid ratio to water.

On a side note :biggrin:
FUN FACT: you can dissolve an egg in vinegar (try that before you dip your coral in HCl :lol:)

Me as a kid.Mom would place an egg in freshly squeezed orange juice over night. And voila my power breakfast in the morning.

Mandosh
03-30-2011, 06:43 AM
Me as a kid.Mom would place an egg in freshly squeezed orange juice over night. And voila my power breakfast in the morning.

That's kind of disgusting.

eli@fijireefrock.com
03-30-2011, 06:54 AM
That's kind of disgusting.

Its a great breakfast,
vitamin C, protein, amino acids and Calcium.mmm:biggrin:mmm

Navarchus
03-30-2011, 07:05 AM
who much time for the vinegar dip?

eli@fijireefrock.com
03-30-2011, 07:12 AM
i would say a couple days.
i would add a PH probe to keep an eye on the fluctuation.
keep in mind if you are mixing water and vinegar you will end up diluting the acidity of your mix.(tap water usually hovers around 7.5 PH.
Anything below 6.5 ph should be fine for an acid solution.
A higher solution will do nothing to your rocks.
My numbers could be a bit off.