Marine Velvet or Ich? *PICS*

[apex82]

After my recent crash/poison episode my butterfly and triggerfish have started to get major symptoms for ich or possibly velvet. They have it had it for about 6 solid days now and are still eating. They look uncomfortable, scraping rocks at times and hiding a lot more than usual. Is it possible to have both at same time? Would they be dead by now if it was velvet? It always looks worse when lights come on in the morning. My camera is not the greatest, so symptoms can only really be seen on the butterfly. The trigger has lint type spots/residue on its head and a white film/residue on its fins that are hard to see on camera.

Please help advising if you think its Ich or velvet? Both if possible?

Notice Larger white spots but then thin white coat covering most of body

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e187/dashocker/CIMG8116.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e187/dashocker/CIMG8120.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e187/dashocker/CIMG8125.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e187/dashocker/CIMG8126.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e187/dashocker/CIMG8135.jpg

[phreezee]

Ich

[ponokareefer]

Ich

+1

[The Grizz]

I would would say Ick for sure, if it has been 6 days and they are still eating. When one of my tanks got hit with the dreaded velvet it only took a matter of a few days and half my fish where dead, the rest just started to rot away. None of they would eat or even swim around.

[Skimmerking]

I'm saying Ich however the only person that I know of who had both in the same tank and worked through it was Laurie fishoholic so see what she says

[ScubaSteve]

Ich. I'd get treating them in hypo asap. I just lost my butterfly to ich because I tried to let t fight it off naturally but it just kept coming back. I was fine and eating well until one day it just took a serious turn for the worse and was dead in 48 hours.

[fishoholic]

I'm saying Ich however the only person that I know of who had both in the same tank and worked through it was Laurie fishoholic so see what she says

Hard to say from the pic.'s it looks more like ich but my velvet looked just like ich for the 1st week then it turned into more of a slime coat cotton type covering over the fish, after a week and a half. My fish still ate for the first week too, I would keep a close eye on it. Hypo works well for ich but doesn't work on velvet, only copper treatment in a QT system works on velvet.

[Bblinks]

ICH, I had a recent out break of ich, my hippo, yellow, sailfin all had it, I tried protomarine since it was the only choicefor a tank with a lot of corals, but I really don't think it did anything. After conversing with the guys at JL, I bought a bottle of selcom and garlic extract, feed them twice a day once in the morning once at night. Now it has been 3 month, the hippo still get a spot here and there but the rest of them are back to full health again. I really think the garlic help fight off the diesease and also boost the appetite of the fish. IMO if you have a hospital tank and if you are lucky enough to catch the fish then copper is the way to go but if you are like the most of us, I would just keep them well fed with selcom and garlic, let it take its course, and with any luck come out victorious in a few month.

[apex82]

Thanks for all the help. I am still puzzled because I will see big spots on them in the morning, like sea salt size. Then later on there are still a few spots but mainly look like someone dumped baby powder on them. If you look at the butterfly in the pick, the black stripes use to be pure black. Now there is cotton powder coating everywhere... I thought ich had fairly distinctive spots?

I want to setup a hospital tank, the only issue is maintenance. I cant deal with water change everyday and getting the copper set to a perfect level on a daily basis. I am feeding frozen mysis,brine,bloodworms,pellets,flake about 3-4 times a day soaked in garlic guard and selcon. Definately a lot of extra nutrients, but figured keep them eating as much as I can. I guess I will just continute to do this until I see one take a turn for the worse and then take drastic measures...

[Bblinks]

apex82, I forgot to mention JL and OA which are my lfs both have offered to take my ick infested fish in for treatment. if I were you I would try to take them out to the lfs if they are willing and let them treat it. Just a thought.

Thanks for all the help. I am still puzzled because I will see big spots on them in the morning, like sea salt size. Then later on there are still a few spots but mainly look like someone dumped baby powder on them. If you look at the butterfly in the pick, the black stripes use to be pure black. Now there is cotton powder coating everywhere... I thought ich had fairly distinctive spots?

I want to setup a hospital tank, the only issue is maintenance. I cant deal with water change everyday and getting the copper set to a perfect level on a daily basis. I am feeding frozen mysis,brine,bloodworms,pellets,flake about 3-4 times a day soaked in garlic guard and selcon. Definately a lot of extra nutrients, but figured keep them eating as much as I can. I guess I will just continute to do this until I see one take a turn for the worse and then take drastic measures...

[apex82]

Trigger broke out today and it looks a lot more like ich... Hoping its not velvet. I will give lfs call tomorrow. Thanks

[daniella3d]

Did you introduce something recently? velvet does not live peacefully in your tank waiting to pop up. Ick can do that and be in a low state of contamination on the fish gill until the fish weaken but not velvet. If you introduced nothing new (fish, coral etc.) within the last month I would exclude marine velvet.

There is no need to treat with copper if it is not velvet as it is easy to keep and maintain an hyposalinity tank. With some liverock the water quality stay top on. I have a hippo tang, a kole tang and a damsel in a 21 gallon for a month now in hyposalinity for ick and they are doing great. No sign of ick for a month so in a week or so I am going to start raising the salinity slowly for a week. Never had a problem with ammonia or nitritres because of the cured liverock. However before doing hyposalinity you must be sure that it is not velvet because once in hypo, the salinity cannot be raised quickly and you cannot use copper with hypo together.

[apex82]

Unfortunately I think its velvet... Trigger body turned brownish with layers of cottony white and will not eat along with a few others. I removed the three worst, did a fw dip and placed them into a 20g quarantine and started copper this evening. I seeded two sponges for the hob filter most of the day in my sump... hope that will be enough. It really looked like ich before but once it got ahold it definately lost the white spot look and was more like a brownish/white powdery film covering the fish. They are looking rough, I dont know if they are gonna make it... Had to touch the oven once and will quarantine from now on.

[Youngster Dan]

That sucks, good luck with the treatment. This hobby can sure turn stressful sometimes eh?

[apex82]

That sucks, good luck with the treatment. This hobby can sure turn stressful sometimes eh?

Ya... lost the butterfly and coral beauty overnight in the hospital tank :cry:Trigger is going to go soon as well... I am using coppersafe with the correct dosage and reading on the test kit. I just don't get it... I made sure I did a proper 5 minute fw dip (temp +ph + aeration) and put them in clean tank with pvc pipes, heater at 78-80, aquaclear filter and two powerheads. Only thing is I dont have much surface agitation because I thought the aquaclear took care of that? I also used a dechlorinator when preparing the saltwater a few days ago... Stress is an understatement, they have taken over my life the past 2 weeks...

Can ich still look like this in its worst stage?

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e187/dashocker/CIMG8176.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e187/dashocker/CIMG8180.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e187/dashocker/CIMG8188.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e187/dashocker/CIMG8190.jpg

[fishoholic]

That is velvet. The problem with velvet is that it looks like ich for the 1st week and a bit the fish get it, and by the time you figure out that it's velvet it's usually to late to save the fish with treatment. When I had it I started with 34 fish and ended up only being able to save 8 fish :sad:

Here's a link to thread I started when I was dealing with velvet.
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=51938

[apex82]

I took a look at your thread and pics.. .it does look very similar. What a f'd up parasite! Do you think I should try another fw dip? He definately wont eat and is on his last legs... not sure if this would send him over the edge or possibly help him out... He also has lots of white scabs coming off skin... kinda like after a sunburn and your skin is peeling.

[fishoholic]

I took a look at your thread and pics.. .it does look very similar. What a f'd up parasite! Do you think I should try another fw dip? He definately wont eat and is on his last legs... not sure if this would send him over the edge or possibly help him out... He also has lots of white scabs coming off skin... kinda like after a sunburn and your skin is peeling.

FW dips definitely helped my fish, but the copper treatment was what cured the ones I could save. My sohal had part of his face peel off, it looked awful but somehow he survived the velvet.

Also this disease stays in the display tank for weeks after the fish have been removed. It's very important that you leave the display fishless for a minimum of 6 weeks before adding any new fish, or the new fish could get velvet. I left my tanks empty for 8 weeks just to be on the safe side.

[apex82]

Well its officically velvet... Had to leave for the weekend to go to Van and came back to my two clowns and blenny dead... It has now claimed:
2 x chromis
2 x clownfish
2 x coral beauty
1 x ignitus anthias
Lawnmower blenny
Blue throat trigger
Bannerfish

Resetting up the quarantine tomorrow WITHOUT using dechlorinator for the remaining 2 chromis, flame hawk and mandarin

Display tank will go fishless for 8 weeks to make sure the parasite is dead and all new fish will go through quarantine before being added...

I just feel like throwing in the towel at times... fn brutal