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View Full Version : What is the definition of a tank crash?

Wayne
03-04-2011, 02:12 AM
I think I might be on the verge of a tank crash. SPS is dying, leathers have been shedding skins for weeks, zoas closed up, clam only half open.

Fish are fine, levels for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate are zero. Magnesium was around 1360, calcium around 400, PH 8.0-8.2, phospates are high at 0.5, KH at 10.

I have been doing small water changes everyday for the last 3 days, without disrupting the display tank with some visual improvment in the LPS. Am I on the verge of a crash and how do you prevent...

P.S. This happened a month ago aswell and the cause that I believed was the GFO and Carbon I was running in a reactor. I have since thrown all that mixture away and put a little carbon in. After seeing the problem again the first thing I unplugged was the reactor.
Aquattro
03-04-2011, 02:17 AM
I would do a large water change right away. Something in there isn't right, and doing small changes won't be enough to dilute whatever it is.
Wayne
03-04-2011, 02:19 AM
I have about 60G of water in my tank and sump how much should I replace?
Aquattro
03-04-2011, 02:23 AM
I have about 60G of water in my tank and sump how much should I replace?

I'd do 30g and see how that goes.
Wayne
03-04-2011, 02:25 AM
Sounds good be back in 5 :lol:
Wayne
03-04-2011, 02:53 AM
OK OK a little more than 5 :biggrin: WOW thats a big water change!
Aquattro
03-04-2011, 02:55 AM
Just something to think about, I'd probably do that much as a regular water change :)
I change 50g every other week, which is about 25%. I'd do more, but my bin is only 50g. I change about 75% in my biocube every two weeks.
Wayne
03-04-2011, 03:02 AM
Something to look forward to when I go bigger eh! :lol:

I think I will increase my amount changed from now on. My levels are always constant, and my lighting is all new with a 250w metal halide and 135w of PC and I have never really had a lot of LPS or leather growth...
Wayne
03-04-2011, 11:42 PM
Day after big water change no signs or improvment, I will do another large water change. Is there something that I am missing in this equation? Also I am noticing a brown algea creeping on my closed up zoas...
pyke
03-05-2011, 12:30 AM
Just a thought, but if you have a new metal halide and you were running a less intense light you may have shocked your coral.

When we went from the PC light to our new metal halide things were not happy at first. we set the halide about 18 inches off the surface to start on only 4 hours a day. the corals closed up for almost a week then gradually started coming out and looking better.

we have since moved out halides down and are on for 6 hours of halide but it took a while for the corals to adjust.

I dont know if this is causing you issues but you may want to think about the timing of your issues in the tank.
The Grizz
03-05-2011, 12:34 AM
Just a thought, but if you have a new metal halide and you were running a less intense light you may have shocked your coral.

When we went from the PC light to our new metal halide things were not happy at first. we set the halide about 18 inches off the surface to start on only 4 hours a day. the corals closed up for almost a week then gradually started coming out and looking better.

we have since moved out halides down and are on for 6 hours of halide but it took a while for the corals to adjust.

I dont know if this is causing you issues but you may want to think about the timing of your issues in the tank.

That could be a possibility, when I switch to my new MH I to noticed it took a little time for things to get happy again. Leather and zoas especially can get light shocked really easy in my experience.
Wayne
03-05-2011, 02:18 AM
I have had the metal halides for a few months now. I since they have been on I slowly increased the time duration by 15 minutes every week. I certainly was hoping that it was something that simple :sad:
Wayne
03-05-2011, 01:34 PM
Is it better to transfer some items to my other tanks or just leave things be?
Aquattro
03-05-2011, 01:45 PM
Is it better to transfer some items to my other tanks or just leave things be?

Judgment call on your part. If it's some type of disease or contaminant, you might transfer it. Or not...
Wayne
03-05-2011, 01:50 PM
Are there dieseses that only affect corals and not fish?
Wayne
03-05-2011, 02:02 PM
How about stray voltage? Do I need an analog voltage meter to check for that?
cwatkins
03-05-2011, 03:48 PM
Anything metal like fall in to the tank or sump? Screw or something else?
paddyob
03-05-2011, 04:04 PM
If you have a brown algae on your zoas... it is most likely a cyano. Use a turkey baster to clean them off and they will be fine.

As for the issues... wow. Keep monitoring.

As for a huge water change the day after a huge water change... be careful. To do an almost 100% water change in two days may also be detrimental.

Good luck Wayne.
Wayne
03-05-2011, 06:04 PM
Anything metal like fall in to the tank or sump? Screw or something else?

Not that I know of... I noticed the brass on one of my pumps is a pinky color where the hose was sitting...
Wayne
03-05-2011, 06:08 PM
If you have a brown algae on your zoas... it is most likely a cyano. Use a turkey baster to clean them off and they will be fine.

As for the issues... wow. Keep monitoring.

As for a huge water change the day after a huge water change... be careful. To do an almost 100% water change in two days may also be detrimental.

Good luck Wayne.

I only did a 10% water change today and I did pull my zoa's out. LPS is looking better, mushrooms look ok, and only one leather isn't doing good. SPS is 90% dead (just a few small frags, once I get this sorted out anyone got some monti cap they don't want?)

So all in all its not bad, but certainly not right! I have shut my return pump off to isolate the two tanks hoping that if I do have stray voltage its in the sump... Going to get a meter today :sad:
Wayne
03-05-2011, 08:37 PM
How you try to tell if a clam is dead? Mine is not responsive to light or touch... He is about halfway open... :sad:

Oh and on a same but different note my citron goby is hiding out inside him :)
The Grizz
03-06-2011, 12:51 AM
How you try to tell if a clam is dead? Mine is not responsive to light or touch... He is about halfway open... :sad:

Oh and on a same but different note my citron goby is hiding out inside him :)

If it is not responding to light or if it doesn't close or move when you put a little squeeze on the shell it is more then likely a goner, sorry but this is what I have found out with the bucket load of clams I have lost lately.
Wayne
03-06-2011, 01:31 AM
If it is not responding to light or if it doesn't close or move when you put a little squeeze on the shell it is more then likely a goner, sorry but this is what I have found out with the bucket load of clams I have lost lately.

Aww nuts I will pull him out then and that might help with the nitrites and phospates that found after getting my water tested at Blue World :cry:
The Grizz
03-06-2011, 01:38 AM
Aww nuts I will pull him out then and that might help with the nitrites and phospates that found after getting my water tested at Blue World :cry:

When you pull it out of the water see if it reacts and also see if it has a rotten smell, that will give you your answer.
intarsiabox
03-06-2011, 01:42 AM
You'll know when you pull it out if it's alive or not because it will smell really bad. I had a clam die on me once but the mantle stayed open and kept its color, it was the foot that seemed to rot away but its unresponsiveness was what made me check it out.
MitchM
03-06-2011, 01:57 AM
Have you put a grounding probe in your system yet?
Wayne
03-06-2011, 02:03 AM
Have you put a grounding probe in your system yet?

Actually no, someone told me that if I had stray electric voltage I would definaly feel it and the fish wouldn't be doing well...

I just pulled him and he is gutted in the inside, his foot smells rotten... :sad: Another casualty. Maybe the contributor of the continuation of the problem....
MitchM
03-06-2011, 02:11 AM
No, that's not quite right. It only takes a very small amount to affect your corals.
You also may have an intermittent voltage leak, you don't know.
It's a cheap insurance policy. Your LFS will carry it.
Wayne
03-06-2011, 03:01 AM
No, that's not quite right. It only takes a very small amount to affect your corals.
You also may have an intermittent voltage leak, you don't know.
It's a cheap insurance policy. Your LFS will carry it.

Hum ok I will go pick a meter up tomarrow then. Thanks for the advice, I will keep you guys informed :)
Aquattro
03-06-2011, 04:51 AM
The brass thing you mentioned, is it exposed to water? Brass is a copper alloy, so this would be bad...
StirCrazy
03-06-2011, 07:09 AM
as to the original question, this is the definition of a tank crash

http://www.members.shaw.ca/crystalk/tankwrek/bucket1.jpg

http://www.members.shaw.ca/crystalk/tankwrek/bucket2.jpg

http://www.members.shaw.ca/crystalk/tankwrek/frags.jpg

http://www.members.shaw.ca/crystalk/tankwrek/frags1.jpg

http://www.members.shaw.ca/crystalk/tankwrek/frags2.jpg

Steve
Doug
03-06-2011, 02:07 PM
Wow Steve. What sad looking pics.
Wayne
03-06-2011, 02:18 PM
The brass thing you mentioned, is it exposed to water? Brass is a copper alloy, so this would be bad...

Yes some of it is, the part thats pinky is covered by hose... The parts that are exposed to water are starting to brown in color... I will pull that pump
Aquattro
03-06-2011, 02:21 PM
I'd maybe investing in something to pull copper, just in case. Any issues with snails or hermits, etc?
Wayne
03-06-2011, 02:22 PM
Um Steve, thank you for the definition... Wow, I have heard stories of the buckets... Its something totally different to see :cry:
Wayne
03-06-2011, 02:24 PM
I'd maybe investing in something to pull copper, just in case. Any issues with snails or hermits, etc?

I have two peppermint shrimp and an emerald crab that are fine, I saw a hermit a day or two ago. I am missing two mexican turbo snails (which might have set this all off), as for other misc snails I just realized that I haven't seen any in a long time...
Wayne
03-06-2011, 02:39 PM
Current death list: Dusky Jawfish, Brittle Star Fish, Maxima Clam, 4 peices of SPS, 1 Pulsing Zenia, 2 Mexican Turbo Snails missing

Here are my pictures, looking pretty empty:

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy22/Racing_Rush/IMG_3319.jpg

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy22/Racing_Rush/IMG_3320.jpg

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy22/Racing_Rush/IMG_3322.jpg

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy22/Racing_Rush/IMG_3325.jpg

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy22/Racing_Rush/IMG_3329.jpg

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy22/Racing_Rush/IMG_3327.jpg
StirCrazy
03-06-2011, 04:30 PM
Wow Steve. What sad looking pics.

ya that was when my heater stuck on in the tamp tank while I was removing the sand out of the main tank. I put everything back int he tank hoping it would make it but nothing did.


Um Steve, thank you for the definition... Wow, I have heard stories of the buckets... Its something totally different to see :cry:

ya the blue bucket is a 8 gal bucket and the greyish black one is a 20 gal bucket so they are bigger than they look in the pic. to give you an idea the mili in the second bucket pic was almost 20" accross.

Steve
Wayne
03-06-2011, 06:32 PM
Steve did your fish make it?
fishytime
03-07-2011, 02:21 AM
Really sorry to read about your fishues Wayne:sad:......I dont think technically speaking you are having a crash, its more of an event.......I dont know what is worse......slowly losing stuff over a period of days or weeks, not being able to figure out whats going on.......or losing everything all at once, like Steve and myself......

how bout this one........

from this
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/JDigital/IMG_04582.jpg



to this.....in about 36 hours (thats a large coleman extreme cooler, about 5" deep)
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/fishytime/IMGP4427.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/fishytime/IMGP4426.jpg
Wayne
03-07-2011, 02:39 AM
Really sorry to read about your fishues Wayne:sad:......I dont think technically speaking you are having a crash, its more of an event.......I dont know what is worse......slowly losing stuff over a period of days or weeks, not being able to figure out whats going on.......or losing everything all at once, like Steve and myself......

Yeah thats the thing with not knowing! I think it might be the dead mexican snails (found one shell) or maybe the dead clam, or maybe the brass fitting, or the RO water, or maybe its something on my skin...

So many things that can go wrong on such a sensitive system... Sorry for your loss, certainly makes me realise that I am somewhat lucky. At least some softies and my fish will survive, plus my other tanks arn't plumbed into this one so they are still good.
StirCrazy
03-07-2011, 07:53 AM
Steve did your fish make it?

ya they were in a different tank and between a couple people and the LFS, I think they are all still doing fine.

Steve
Wayne
03-07-2011, 10:21 PM
ya they were in a different tank and between a couple people and the LFS, I think they are all still doing fine.

Steve


Thats makes it a little bit better, at least its not a total write off then. Always try to put a positive spin on things.

Honestly though if this tank crashes completly I will be taking some off, till I move into a house in a year or so.
matinbc
03-08-2011, 01:08 AM
Holy boys, your making me sad with all the death. On a positive note My 250w black stealth heater was on its way out the other day and came home to a tank temp of 90degrees!!!!

I grabbed the heater and just about burned my hands. I now have a Ti one and it works great and holds the temp more accuratly.

Made me go ahead and clean all my power heads as well cause I was afraid of any possibility of a tank nuke. I cant wait to find a chiller...

Sorry about your loss, I hope that we find out what it is so we can learn from it.
BlueWorldAquatic
03-08-2011, 01:19 AM
just a few quick ?'s Forgive me if I missed seeing them in this thread.

What salt are you using?
RO water, filtered or purchased?

Ken
Wayne
03-08-2011, 02:58 AM
just a few quick ?'s Forgive me if I missed seeing them in this thread.

What salt are you using?
RO water, filtered or purchased?

Ken

I have been using Instant Ocean since I started the tank I have been slowly switching to Instant Ocean Reef Crystals since January. I was using RO/DI for a few months now with my own RO system which is a newer system with new filters.
Wayne
03-08-2011, 03:31 AM
There is electricity in my tank. I am getting 42V in the system total. I found 20V just in one pump, so its out of the tank now. The other voltage is from ATO, Return Pump, power heads... about 2V per.

How much is too much?
Wayne
03-09-2011, 07:25 PM
Bump anyone?
MitchM
03-09-2011, 07:33 PM
Hard to say. I don't know of any studies done testing that.
ANY amount is too much, in my opinion.:smile:

Have you put that grounding probe in there yet?:wink:
Wayne
03-09-2011, 07:35 PM
Hard to say. I don't know of any studies done testing that.
ANY amount is too much, in my opinion.:smile:

Have you put that grounding probe in there yet?:wink:

What type of grounding probe material would you use? Aluminum?
MitchM
03-09-2011, 07:38 PM
I believe the ones that the LFS sells have a titanium probe end which is attached to a wire that you attach with a screw to a nearby grounded electrical outlet.
Aluminum may just oxidize over and become useless. I don't know.
DiverDude
03-09-2011, 08:19 PM
What type of grounding probe material would you use? Aluminum?

Grounding probes are usually Titanium.
Wayne
03-09-2011, 09:25 PM
Ah ha I found one from JL: http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/product-info.php?product_ID=mc-gp

I will look around for one locally, if anyone from Etown knows where to get them... :lol:

One more question my cabbage coral has not shed his skin in a few weeks now... He has some brownish algea growing on his edges and I blew it off and I think I blew into his flesh... Should I try to frag the healthier sections or just toss him?
Wayne
03-10-2011, 09:44 PM
Never mind I went home last night and the cabbage was not doing well so I peeled it off the rock and did a 10% water change. :sad::sad::sad:

From all the stuff that has died or I moved its a pretty bare tank... I might need to move this into the FOWLR section :cry:
RedCoralEdmonton
03-10-2011, 11:05 PM
Wayne i have a grounding probe you can have, its the same one from JL, its slightly used, after i upgraded my koralias to the vortechs i havent needed it, pm me

Steve
Wayne
03-11-2011, 10:26 PM
A good and bad news update:

The zoas that I pulled out are starting to open :biggrin: very slowly

But my frogspawn had some brown jelly on him today, I blew him off with the power head and moved him into another tank and I will hope for the best but am not optimistic.
Wayne
03-14-2011, 03:03 AM
New updates: Frogspawn and large umbrella toadstool dead (were moved to another tank), stray voltage probe installed and now zero voltage in the tank :)

The toadstools, rics, mushrooms, candy cane, and GSP are still going good but always were.

I am planning on regular water changes for the new 2 months and then I will try putting corals back into the tank....