Another Newb with another Newb question.

[xnmuller]

So I have been following a few tank journals here and everyone seems so nice, I thought I would ask you all for a little "what would you do?" I have a 135 gallon set up with 50 gallon sump and about 125 lbs of rock. I run a Vertex IN-280 in-sump skimmer. The tank has been cycling for almost 4 weeks now and while I love just staring at the rocks and finding the two brittle stars who hitch a ride from the LFS, my wife keeps asking; "when are we gonna put some fish in that puddle?"

What I was wondering is what should I add first and did you have any suggestions on species etc;
1 - a display type fish (nice to look at but does no maintenance)
2 - a working type fish (something that will help maintain the quality of the environment)
3 - start with a small cleaning crew

Eventually I would like to build a mixed reef display.

[ALang]

What an incredibly nice sized tank to start with. Green with envy!!
First off, welcome to Canreef.
Then, make sure that your tank has fully cycled first before even contemplating lifestock!
Then, with your size tank, you need to decide what do you want to have: fish-only? large-polyped corals? Soft corals? or eventually a full-blown reef with small polyped stoney corals??
Sure you can give your fish away later, you still might have to, sometimes your fish just decides to misbehave and nibble on a clam or two. But you don't want a big wrasse/angel that may devour all your ohter stuff, etc...
Let us know what you may want to have as in the above questions, and then you should either get a couple of good books (you can borrow) to get you started.
What exciting times. Wish I was in your shoes, Nice skimmer, too.

[Lance]

Make up a list of the fish you want to keep, then research them to make sure they are compatible. When you start stocking the tank, introduce the more timid species first: working up to the more aggressive species last. And most important: GO SLOW! Let each new fish get fully acclimated to his new home. Have fun! :lol:

[xnmuller]

What an incredibly nice sized tank to start with. Green with envy!!
First off, welcome to Canreef.
Then, make sure that your tank has fully cycled first before even contemplating lifestock!
Then, with your size tank, you need to decide what do you want to have: fish-only? large-polyped corals? Soft corals? or eventually a full-blown reef with small polyped stoney corals??
Sure you can give your fish away later, you still might have to, sometimes your fish just decides to misbehave and nibble on a clam or two. But you don't want a big wrasse/angel that may devour all your ohter stuff, etc...
Let us know what you may want to have as in the above questions, and then you should either get a couple of good books (you can borrow) to get you started.
What exciting times. Wish I was in your shoes, Nice skimmer, too.

Thanks for the replies, it really helps to get a cohesive thought process going about what comes next.

Currently I am waiting for the cycle to complete, and each test of the water parameters is dropping in ammonia and so on. So once the readings are correct and stable I will be adding the livestock. As for the type of tank I was thinking FOWLR to start then moving on to some of the "easier" corals. I heard tell there are some heartier softies and zoos. Dwarf angels will most likely be the center piece fish as they are the wife's favorite (concessions had to be made hehe).

The wish list looks something like this (and yes I think there is more here than the tank can handle so I'll have to shorten it at some point). Also I have not yet completed all my research to see if there are any incompatible pairings in this wish list.

2 x clown
1 x coral beauty angel
1 x flame angel
1 x lemon peel angel
1 x yellow tang
1 x blue tang
1 x foxface lo
2 x bartlett's anthias
1 x kaudern's cardinal
3 x green chromis
1 x a goby type
2 x bicolour dotty back


But what I really want to know is do the cleaning crew go in first or the most timid fish on my wishlist.

[abcha0s]

2 x clown
1 x coral beauty angel
1 x flame angel
1 x lemon peel angel
1 x yellow tang
1 x blue tang
1 x foxface lo
2 x bartlett's anthias
1 x kaudern's cardinal
3 x green chromis
1 x a goby type
2 x bicolour dotty back


But what I really want to know is do the cleaning crew go in first or the most timid fish on my wishlist.

Lose the 3xChromis and your list looks good. I'd double check the angels in consideration of any corals you are hoping to keep.

Cleanup crews need to eat too. If there is no algea in the tank, it might be a little to early. Also, you don't need to add them all at once. If you buy too many too quickly, they will exhaust their food source and eat each other.

I would start with a small clean up crew, then some fish, then some more clean up crew as the tank matures.

Personally, I'd start with the clowns.

- Brad

[Aquattro]

But what I really want to know is do the cleaning crew go in first or the most timid fish on my wishlist.

It's never too early to add the cleaning crew (mostly), and would not figure into the fish stocking order.

[reefwars]

Thanks for the replies, it really helps to get a cohesive thought process going about what comes next.

Currently I am waiting for the cycle to complete, and each test of the water parameters is dropping in ammonia and so on. So once the readings are correct and stable I will be adding the livestock. As for the type of tank I was thinking FOWLR to start then moving on to some of the "easier" corals. I heard tell there are some heartier softies and zoos. Dwarf angels will most likely be the center piece fish as they are the wife's favorite (concessions had to be made hehe).

The wish list looks something like this (and yes I think there is more here than the tank can handle so I'll have to shorten it at some point). Also I have not yet completed all my research to see if there are any incompatible pairings in this wish list.

2 x clown
1 x coral beauty angel
1 x flame angel
1 x lemon peel angel
1 x yellow tang
1 x blue tang
1 x foxface lo
2 x bartlett's anthias
1 x kaudern's cardinal
3 x green chromis
1 x a goby type
2 x bicolour dotty back


But what I really want to know is do the cleaning crew go in first or the most timid fish on my wishlist.



i wouldnt bother with angels if your gonna have coral they are dead hit or miss but its your call......the lemonpeel is the one id be worried about most.ive always added a clean up crew first like some snails and shrimp but isnt "necessary".your list isnt all that huge and over time your sytem could handle it if you set it up correctly.

remember where your tank is just finishing its cycle its very very very important not to add to many at once.if i were you id start with the 3 green chromis then wait a bit add another and let it settle for a bit.if you throw too much into fast it throws your tank off balance and the bio load will be too much.

add your yellow tang off that list last i find them to be bullys when they own the tank or theres few fish around same with the foxface they are community fish but territorial none the less.

[xnmuller]

Wow, thanks for the response. So it sounds like I should build my cleaning crew as the bio-load increases over time. I will probably start with a couple of clowns (my daughter absolutely loves "Nemo") once the cycle is complete and the tank is ready then go from there. I still have some research planned about the angels and compatibility, but I don't plan on adding more then 2 fish a month and revelling in the anticipation of my next purchase.

Thanks again for all your advice. As for types of corals, I'll do my best to keep them to a destructive minimum, but I don't anticipate my first coral for about a year or so. I guess we'll see where this hobby will take me.

[xnmuller]

Lose the 3xChromis and your list looks good. I'd double check the angels in consideration of any corals you are hoping to keep.

- Brad

Just curious why lose the chromis? Is this a personal preference or are there other reasons?

[ponokareefer]

Just curious why lose the chromis? Is this a personal preference or are there other reasons?

Three chromis over time will typically become 1. They are quite aggressive towards each other as they age. This process may take a year or 2 depending on the chromis.

I would also be very cautious about dwarf angels. I had 3 and after a few months, regretted getting them. They were extremely beautiful, but attacked corals randomly. I would consider going with wrasse's instead if you get some type of canopy to prevent jumping.

[Leah]

Welcome to Canreef,

And yes we are an AWESOME bunch of banana's :biggrin: or something. :lol:

Chromis are a better species to start with and usually cheaper the clowns and lets face it...I'd rather lose a chromis or two then a clown. Yes once they are in they are a beggar to get out. Having said that If you like the looks of them then go for it.
GO SLOWWW. And I agree with the fact that most angels are munchers of corals. You could try a Bellus, Singapore or maybe a Lamarcks. But I would not have a tank, reef or otherwise without at least one. :redface: My personal opinion only though. I LOVE MY ANGELS.

Leah

[xnmuller]

You could try a Bellus, Singapore or maybe a Lamarcks. ....I LOVE MY ANGELS.

Leah

I haven't given much thought to the larger species of angels because I thought they would take up too much space and I would have to fore go some of the other fish on the wishlist. What do you guys think, could I substitute the three dwarves for two larger species without affecting the community too much?

[bauder1986]

I haven't given much thought to the larger species of angels because I thought they would take up too much space and I would have to fore go some of the other fish on the wishlist. What do you guys think, could I substitute the three dwarves for two larger species without affecting the community too much?

Keep the flame angel but replace the coral beauty with a Koran angel. get them as juvinels and make a deal with the LFS that if they start nipping corals that you can bring them back and try another one.
I've heard better results with those two angels and they are truely pretty fish

[reefwars]

I haven't given much thought to the larger species of angels because I thought they would take up too much space and I would have to fore go some of the other fish on the wishlist. What do you guys think, could I substitute the three dwarves for two larger species without affecting the community too much?



yes you can for sure the amount of fish your tank can handle depends on space, filtration and age so if you buy a really good skimmer and put lots of rock in your sump and keep your display clean and" open" youll be fine. if you look at larger angels just be sure that they will fit your tank when they are full grown......but remember angels are hit and miss bigtime even with the common ones:):) this includes more than just corals clams are at risk as well:)

your off to a great start and not a doubt in my mind youll do fine.....any more questions and just shoot away:):)

[daniella3d]

+1 on not adding a lot of fish at once. Someone in the reefaction forum lost all of his fish because he added them all at once and there was a huge ammonia spike. Not good. The bacterias are not in suffisant number to support a sudden and large increase in bioload. Do it very gradualy putting the less aggresive fish first and adding the most aggresive last.

[mws]

Just curious why lose the chromis? Is this a personal preference or are there other reasons?


+1 on loose the chromises. They been nothing but pain for me. Mine span every 3 days and it's word war II in a tank the all time.
If I can cutch the bustards and turn time back I would go with 3-4 azure damsels. I know damsels!!! But whose are the nicest one out of damsel family, peaceful and you can get a group of 3-4 and have a pop of blue/yellow here and there.And best of all hardy and will eat fish feces.
Just my two cents.

That said I will be moving to a bigger tank in about a month, so if anyone like my chromises for 2.50 a peace are welcome to have them.

[reefwars]

+1 on not adding a lot of fish at once. Someone in the reefaction forum lost all of his fish because he added them all at once and there was a huge ammonia spike. Not good. The bacterias are not in suffisant number to support a sudden and large increase in bioload. Do it very gradualy putting the less aggresive fish first and adding the most aggresive last.



exactly once your tank "cycles" its at the point where your just getting enough bacteria to do its job(always nice to give it a bit of time even when the tests say good)...the bacteria are repopulating in massive numbers but if you add to much they wont be able to keep up and then youll see amonia and nitrite spikes and that equals= dead everything(tank crash)

the same would be said about adding anything to your tank in large numbers lol too much rock added at once is gonna show if you try to compete with the bacteria.... it doesnt take much to keep your fish and corals alive but it doesnt take much to kill them either:):)


haha the best lesson ever "nothing happens fast in a reeftank but disaster"

[ponokareefer]

I wouldn't recommend buying any fish with a good possibility you have to take them out later. This causes a lot of stress on your tank and is a real pain. I did this previously and my fish never trusted me again, running and hiding everytime I came up to the tank rather than coming out for food. Fish traps will sometimes work, but there is no guarantee.

If you want angels that do not nip at corals, look at the group called Genicanthus. Here is a link to some of them:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/genicanthus/

You could probably look to get a pair of one of these fish instead of the 3 dwarf's and the bioload would be similar.

[xnmuller]

Lots of great info thank you everybody. Yeah I keep hearing "Only bad things happen fast". I guess that makes sense when you conisder the bacteria vs bioload. Lots of great info on angels too, thanks. I also want to be careful not to buy a specimen that is too difficult to take care of, being new and all. If I do loose a fish and I'll try my damnest not to, I don't want to loose my shirt as well.

hat being said, how accurate is LiveAquaria.com when they mention the care level of different fish?

[ponokareefer]

LiveAquaria.com is not bad, but what I typically do is type the fish name into the search at reefcentral.com(after becoming a member), and take a look at what people's actual experiences are with keeping the fish long term( 2 years and up). The reason I say long term is some people will say "I have kept 12 chromis together for 6 months and had no problems", but they fail to comment that after about a year, 12 became 10, then 8, and so on. Just be warned though, reefcentral is huge and a search can yield a tonne of results.

[Leah]

[QUOTE=ponokareefer;585613]I wouldn't recommend buying any fish with a good possibility you have to take them out later. This causes a lot of stress on your tank and is a real pain. I did this previously and my fish never trusted me again, running and hiding everytime I came up to the tank rather than coming out for food. Fish traps will sometimes work, but there is no guarantee.

Some people happen to love them.. ya know. :wink:

[xnmuller]

Well I got the test back on my water and the ammonia is down to zero and nitrites are near zero. By teh time I get back from Vegas I should be ready to go. Thank you all for your help and friendly advice. I am still undecided about the chromis or clown to starat, but if I get a chromis it will only be one. Thanks again and I'm sure I'll be back for more advice