kien's Ecoxotic Panorama 36 LED Retrofit review

[kien]

Okay, so I recently got one of these fancy schmancy new LED retrofit kits to play around with. Mostly I was curious because I'm quite new to this whole LED scene. I was surprised that to find that there weren't too many reviews on these units. Well, here's my completely unscientific review.

The Box:

Ya, not very exciting. It is a brown box.

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_0868.jpg

In The Box:

It does get a little bit more exciting once you open up the box and if you get one, I highly recommend that you do open the box. Inside you'll find a power unit and the LED retrofit itself.

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_0869.jpg

The LED fixture measures roughly 8" by 9" and is attached to a heat sink. The LEDs are covered with a plastic to help protect it and to help diffuse the light.

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_0877.jpg

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_0872.jpg

As far as build quiality, this thing is pretty solid. No loose parts. It is sealed quite well to prevent moisture from getting in.

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_0876.jpg

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_0875.jpg

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_0874.jpg

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_0870.jpg

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_0873.jpg

But how does it look on the tank??

Right, so the unit is sexy, no doubt about that. Time to throw this bad boy over the tank and see what we get. For comparison sake, here is a full tank shot of my tank with just my centre metal halide on. It is a 250watt Phoenix 14K driven by a Galaxy ballast.

Halide:
http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_0880-1.jpg

LED:
http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_0887-1.jpg

You can immediately see from the photos that it isn't quite as bright as the halide fixture. Both are mounted at exactly the same height, which is roughly 1 foot above the water surface. But what about PAR you ask? Good question!

What About PAR?

Using this handy dandy quantum meter that I borrowed from a very generous canreefer I was able to take some PAR readings.

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_0889.jpg

Again, for comparison sake I took PAR readings with my one halide to compare it with. Below is the breakdown. The tank is 20" tall by the way.


Halide:

Above Water: 301
Just Below Water: 230
Mid Level: 200
Bottom of tank: 163

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_0884.jpg

LED:
Above Water: 173
Just Below Water: 120
Mid Level: 66
Bottom of Tank: 28

Conclusion

As you can clearly see, this unit doesn't quite compare to a 250 watt metal halide. I can't honestly say how it would compare to a 150 or 175 watt halide as I have never run them before but I would hazard a guess that the 150 would perform similar to the LED, maybe? I did lower the unit to about 6" above the water's surface and the PAR did go up a bit. It still didn't come close to the 250watt halide but there was a slight improvement in PAR. Also of note is the fact that the light got much narrower (ie, less spread) once the unit was lowered. To match a 250 halide you would likely need a few of these guys stacked together. It may also be worth mentioning that both the MH and the LED units are roughly the same size, length and width.

I just wanted to mention also that when I first plugged this unit in it looked VERY bright. I think that this is a case of where your eyes can fool you. When I first looked at the LED lit tank I swore that it was throwing out as much light as the Halide. However, once I started taking par readings and compared the pictures it was obvious that my eyes adjusted themselves to viewing both lights equally. The camera on the other hand did no such thing. It was set on manual mode with a fixed aperture, shutter speed and ISO so what the camera's sensor sees is what you're getting out of the light fixture.

Solid fixture. By itself I think it throws out quite a bit of light, especially for its low watt draw. I would not hesitate to stack a few of these together to light a FOWLR, softy or shallow frag tank. For an SPS tank I would be hesitant unless I had A LOT of them. :biggrin:

DISCLAIMER: This was NOT a scientific test! This was a guy with an LED fixture and a PAR meter monkeying around.

[Youngster Dan]

Great post, pretty interesting. Also, that picture with just the center halide on is rad.

[reefwars]

good job man its nice when people step up and prove points when they are not trying to sell stuff or brand names. great job indeed and those two pics are worth a thousand words:)

[Coleus]

Love your post, very clear picture and detail. Thinking of getting this led fixture for my RSM 130 but now i am not so sure :-(

[mseepman]

Thanks for the review. Decent looking retrofit light.

I'm planning on a a DIY LED build over my next tank and have been purchasing parts for it already. LED's have a lot factors tied to them and their success over a tank, specifically the quality of the LED's used and the optics used. In looking at the Ecoxotic site, I didn't see any indication of the brand of light being used. The difference in lumin output from brand to brand is staggering. They also appear to be roughly 1W LED's and most LED's now being used are 3W.
Interestingly, regarding the PAR output, there have been a lot of comments made on forums, especially RC and NR that suggest PAR meters haven't been giving them results that made sense. People with tanks and multiple 400W lights have found that LED fixtures have overwhelmed their corals, even though the PAR meter gave fixtures similar numbers.

[reefwars]

Love your post, very clear picture and detail. Thinking of getting this led fixture for my RSM 130 but now i am not so sure :-(


yeah 20" isnt a very high tank and i would be skeptacle about keeping high light corals. i did get a price on these the other day its not horrible but you could easily find a mh/t5 combo for the same price from thebuy/ sell ads considering were only talking about 1 single halide....in my case i would need four and my tank is 20" so for the price of four i can get halides for cheaper.(fishneedit pendants are in the 200-300 range each i belive??)

[shrimpchips]

Interestingly, regarding the PAR output, there have been a lot of comments made on forums, especially RC and NR that suggest PAR meters haven't been giving them results that made sense. People with tanks and multiple 400W lights have found that LED fixtures have overwhelmed their corals, even though the PAR meter gave fixtures similar numbers.

It's probably because PAR meters don't perform as well in the wavelengths of light that are commonly thrown over marine tanks - the closer to the blue end of the spectrum you get, the poorer the PAR meters tend to perform. That probably accounts for some of the differences seen despite what the PAR meter says.

Kien, nice review on the LED light. So where is this unit going to go on your system now? I can't imagine you'll be replacing your central halide for it. Maybe an expensive refugium light?

[kien]

It's probably because PAR meters don't perform as well in the wavelengths of light that are commonly thrown over marine tanks - the closer to the blue end of the spectrum you get, the poorer the PAR meters tend to perform. That probably accounts for some of the differences seen despite what the PAR meter says.

Kien, nice review on the LED light. So where is this unit going to go on your system now? I can't imagine you'll be replacing your central halide for it. Maybe an expensive refugium light?

I don't plan on putting it anywhere on my system at the moment and I don't have a refugium :) I could see it going over maybe a softy tank or FOWLR in the future. :)

[the marine apprentice]

kein whats the price on one of these fixtrures? pm me with details please

[StirCrazy]

the prismatic plastic lenze is what is dropping the par so much. it is being used to difuse the light for a bigger spread instead of focusing it.

Steve

[shrimpchips]

I don't plan on putting it anywhere on my system at the moment and I don't have a refugium :) I could see it going over maybe a softy tank or FOWLR in the future. :)

Maybe a fishroom light?

Have you tried any PAR measurements without the diffuser?

[kien]

Maybe a fishroom light?

Have you tried any PAR measurements without the diffuser?

I may try testing it without the diffuser tonight but I would not want to run it long term over saltwater without a cover. Salt creep would likely destroy the LEDs and small reflectors.

[Seamazter]

Nice review, this will certainly save some unsuspecting new buyer the same purchase.

[kien]

Nice review, this will certainly save some unsuspecting new buyer the same purchase.

Or help some buyers make this purchase :). The light does have its applications. Plus, remember that this was just one unit.

[lastlight]

Nice review, this will certainly save some unsuspecting new buyer the same purchase.

I agree. If you can't run a product out of the box like a light the way manufacturer intended I'd perhaps look at other options. Perhaps a unit with a glass shield. Do most have that?

[kien]

kein whats the price on one of these fixtrures? pm me with details please

Let me know if kein doesn't get you that info, as I can get it to you if he doesn't.

[soapy]

Thanks for the review. Decent looking retrofit light.

I'm planning on a a DIY LED build over my next tank and have been purchasing parts for it already. LED's have a lot factors tied to them and their success over a tank, specifically the quality of the LED's used and the optics used. In looking at the Ecoxotic site, I didn't see any indication of the brand of light being used. The difference in lumin output from brand to brand is staggering. They also appear to be roughly 1W LED's and most LED's now being used are 3W.
Interestingly, regarding the PAR output, there have been a lot of comments made on forums, especially RC and NR that suggest PAR meters haven't been giving them results that made sense. People with tanks and multiple 400W lights have found that LED fixtures have overwhelmed their corals, even though the PAR meter gave fixtures similar numbers.

The advantage of the 1 watt LEDs from what I've read is that they are more energy efficient and since they are lower power and it is spread out more on the heat sink they are less apt to require a fan. Most of the newer 3 watt fixtures have fans. No fan equals good to my ears.

I have also read about the par meter issue with LEDs. I suppose a fair model for comparisons remains to be worked out. A less bright looking tank may actually suit me fine, sometimes looking into my yank feels like I am staring into the sun. According to the website this fixture is equivalent to comparable 150 watt plus light sources, whatever that means.

[mseepman]

The advantage of the 1 watt LEDs from what I've read is that they are more energy efficient and since they are lower power and it is spread out more on the heat sink they are less apt to require a fan. Most of the newer 3 watt fixtures have fans. No fan equals good to my ears.

I have also read about the par meter issue with LEDs. I suppose a fair model for comparisons remains to be worked out. A less bright looking tank may actually suit me fine, sometimes looking into my yank feels like I am staring into the sun. According to the website this fixture is equivalent to comparable 150 watt plus light sources, whatever that means.

In the instance of the 1W versus the 3W, efficiency is probably not the right word as the new 3W lights are the most efficient...simply run them at lesser current and they still put out way more lumens but don't require a fan. A 3W Cree XP-G can use up to 1500mA but at about 1000mA you are probably getting the biggest bang for your buck and you are only running it at 2/3's the power and heat. Use the right heatsink and no fan is required....cheap out on the heatsink and you need a fan.

[soapy]

Right, hopefully somebody will set up a fixture like that. I am not that keen on listening to a fan grinding away.

[Snappy]

Thanks for the review. Decent looking retrofit light.
They also appear to be roughly 1W LED's and most LED's now being used are 3W.

Good thread Kien:biggrin:
Mark,
I also looked at their website and I can't find anywhere they state the actual bulb wattage and since the tanks they show as examples don't appear to contain any high light demanding corals I think it's probably safe to assume they use the lower wattage bulbs.

[Delphinus]

Great review, although something occured to me this morning. What about watts? I was looking up the unit online and note that it is rated at 42w.

This might put an interesting spin on things.

The PAR results showed as approximately half that of the 250w halide, but if you could run two of these units, tilted slightly so that the distribution of light roughly overlaps the same area, you'd still be only at 30% energy used. The problem of course comes in that this is "two units" compared to "one unit" so there is the additional up front cost there. With a 166w advantage the two units have over the halide, assuming a billed rate of $0.10 per kWh and a 12 hour photoperiod and a 30 day month, it's about $6 per month cheaper to run the two units. Now, assuming upfront purchase costs of LED and halides at say $400 each (ignoring potential cost-cutting measures such as purchasing second-hand, or DIY, or even factoring in potential resale value of either down the road), this works out to roughly about a 5 year/60 month period before your reach financial equivalency. Except that it's not 60 months if you factor in the cost of replacement halides at 12 month intervals. So in actual fact the "TCO" may in fact be not all that hugely different.

But then additional factors may also come into play such as using a combination of light sources. If these could be shoehorned into a light rack between halides it could well be a fantastic early morning/late afternoon photoperiod thus allowing a shortening of the photoperiod for the main halides.

If the cost of LEDs continue to become less prohibitive over time I could well see that they will gain more market share.

For now though I still love my Radiums! :)

[lastlight]

Now, assuming upfront purchase costs of LED and halides at say $400 each

Yeah $400 will get you one of the units but certainly not two which you'd have to do to try and have equivalent output. I do like the no replacing bulbs idea though that sure sounds nice. We both know radiums aren't all that cheap.

[Delphinus]

Well, I meant it as $400 for one halide, and two times $400 for two Ecoxotics, so the uplift is only the difference $400 and it's only the uplift that you want to look at when comparing that against the energy savings over time.

It's hard to do a completely fair comparison because you can get considerable savings by buying used in either case, except that there will be more halides available second hand right now (over time surely there will be more options for the LEDS as people shift hardware around or shutdown tanks, etc., but for now, there probably aren't many available second hand); and then you can also take into play that DIY options for LED and halides tend to yield lower costs up front (but then we're comparing two completely different things altogether).

One can reasonably expect to replace halides on a 12 month interval but I'm curious as to the true longevity of the LED units, is it reasonable to expect 0% replacement of LEDS over 60 months? And if there is the occasional dud LED out of a fixture, how easy will that be? I think only time can tell for sure but at least the theory is that the effective lifespan is closer to 5 years.

[lastlight]

I sure like the simplicity with halides or even T5s for that matter. Either the ballast goes or the bulb does. Well...or the cat eats into the power cord. Somedays that would solve a problem before it made one but I didn' say that. I'll stop derailing a review thread now.