Dosing for coral growth

[Coleus]

I am pretty sure that all my corals are growing very slowly comparing to other reefer that i know

Here is my tank params ( very stable for last 6 months)

Mg 1350
Calc 420
Alk 8

Nitrate: 0 (test with API)
PH: 7.7 to 8.1

I have 3x250w MH and 4x39W T5. I run bio pellets and carbon reactors. Using two part dosing. I feed my fishes 4 time per day and my coral on M-W-F with BRS Reef Chili Coral Food and Brightwell Aquatics Zooplanktos

But for some reason which i can't explain, my corals are not growing at all, the only things that actually grow in my tank are fishes and anemones. I have both lps and sps but none of them seem to grow


So i am thinking of dosing zeovit coral snow + amino acid + zeovit food, will this do the job?

Thanks

[Reef-Geek]

what is the temperature and color temperature?

[Coleus]

what is the temperature and color temperature?

Tank Temp is 78-80

14000K ushio for MH

4x super blue ATI T5

[mattdean]

If you want them to grow, you have to feed them. I feed my corals Reef Roids, cyclopeeze and another coral food, I can't remember the name. It's red or orange, plus Phytoplankton. Once a week for each on a different day. My corals grow like weeds!

Just try to keep it simple. The more products or chemicals you use, the more you need to offset and balance, the more chance of something going wrong.

I feed my fish heavily, they poop alot, I have excellent nutrient export (BK 200 skimmer, bio pellets [ half dosage], GFO, GAC, etc.) fish are happy, corals are happy...I"M happy!

[Magma]

have you tried Acan Plus from Red Coral? its good for LPS and softies they seem to eat it up really well maybe look into that?

[Aquattro]

If you want them to grow, you have to feed them. I feed my corals Reef Roids, cyclopeeze and another coral food, I can't remember the name. It's red or orange, plus Phytoplankton. Once a week for each on a different day. My corals grow like weeds!


I've never fed my corals and I had so much growth I couldn't keep up on fragging. So this is a matter of opinion really.

My last tank, a 90g, had acros that didn't grow at all in 2 years. After moving to the new tank, they've grown more in three weeks than the previous 2 years. no feeding, other than the food added for the fish. All measureable parameters are identical between the two tanks, so in my case, I think it had something to do with the hardware. Maybe electrical current, copper in the silicone, etc.
But for me, feeding corals has never been required for great growth.

[daniella3d]

I read in the coral magasine (anorexic reef article) that an aquarium that is less than a year does not have enough zooplankton to give a good sps growth and that after an aquarium as matured and is one year or older than the established population of microscopic fauna will help them grow much faster. I too have slow growth in my 9 months old aquarium so feeding help but a mature tank does best with natural plankton.

Reefroid, coral frenzy and zeovit amino acid can help with their growht speed as well.

Also try running carbon for a while as this might be due to coral releasing toxine in the water and preventing other coral to grow. Maybe do a copper test to see? and test for stray current, you never know. Mine as starting to grow but growing sps is much dependant on each coral and some specie grow faster than others. Most of the lps must be fed, especialy like duncan, alveopora etc... I had my ricordea receiding and I had no idea why until I accidently dropped food on one and it ate it all. It just took so long that I had never realised that ricordeas eat as well. I need to shut off my pumps for 30 minutes and let them eat. Now they are growing big again.

[phi delt reefer]

whats your flow like? You can feed until the cows come home but if its not suspended in the water column then its pointless.

as for lights - how often do you change your bulbs and what kind do you use.

coral - some corals are just slow growers - maybe post some pics and some of the seasoned reefers here can comment on how those corals are doing in their tanks. Some of the reefers here with amazing sps and other coral growth have commented that they have a coral or too that just grow super slow no matter what they do. Maybe get a couple frags of some stuff known to grow like weeds, throw it in your tank and see if those take off. If so you then theres nothing wrong except for your coral selection :)

though from the sounds of it you seem to have the ideal coral environment. Maybe recheck your p04, n03, n04 with a different kit to make sure your parameters are correct.

[Coleus]

my tank is over 2 years old. I feed my coral at night and i have a night mode flow. I also set it so that my return pump is off during feeding.

I will do some more testing. Thanks for all input

[Aquattro]

FWIW, my 90 was over 2 yrs, everything tested as perfect for coral growth, but nothing grew much at all. Like I said, in the new 3 week old tank, I have more growth than I ever did in the 90. Young tank, no feeding, same paramters, same salt, etc, just a different tank and sump. Now everything is taking off. I'm starting to think trace copper, not enough to kill, but enough to inhibit growth.

[MitchM]

When to change our carbon is a big unknown, too.
Alleopathy (chemical warfare) could be a factor.

[Coleus]

i replaced my carbon every month and i am using premium carbon

[MitchM]

i replaced my carbon every month and i am using premium carbon

Right, but how do you that it needs to be changed?

Alleopathy in corals is designed to be effective even in the vast expanse of the ocean. Another coral just needs to be down stream of another in order for the chemical to be effective. Never mind the dissolution factor.
How often do you put your hands in the tank?
How does that affect the corals?
What is the mix of corals that you have in your tank?
Maybe the mucous coating that corals shed has built up in the rockwork.

That could explain why Brad's new tank is experiencing good growth. No buildup of toxins yet.

Perhaps exchanging some corals with someone else would make a difference.

I'm just throwing out some suggestions, waiting for Hanna to come out with a test for toxins.:wink:

[Aquattro]

That could explain why Brad's new tank is experiencing good growth. No buildup of toxins yet.



for me, nothing ever grew, even when the tank was new. It could have been a gypsy curse on that tank, for all I know :)

But my 75g and 150g before that grew stupidly fast, new and once running for years.

Hanna needs something to measure curses -lol

[chris121277]

:pop2: Just tagin along here.... great topic :biggrin:

[MitchM]

for me, nothing ever grew, even when the tank was new. It could have been a gypsy curse on that tank, for all I know :)

But my 75g and 150g before that grew stupidly fast, new and once running for years.

Hanna needs something to measure curses -lol

Right, but there are so many variables between tanks.

Age of live rock, how many corals, what type of corals, maintenance schedules, equipment, additives (or not).

Carbon doesn't work at 100% for 30 days then stop. It starts at 100% and gets filled up as fast as conditions dictate.
What happens as the carbon is filling up-the toxins have to go somewhere.

2 equal tanks -
1 with 2 corals, 1 with 50 corals. Both tanks have equal carbon changed at 30 days.

Too soon? too late? Who knows?:smile:

[Aquattro]

For carbon, I would think on average, it will be active for at least a few months (or you're not doing enough water changes :)), so changing it every 30 days errs on the side of caution.

But as with my tanks, everything is equal, same corals, fish, salt, schedules, etc, just the actual two tanks (disp and sump) are different. But very different results. Not to say it's the glass, but I've pretty much thought of everything else.

I actually have a thread about this problem posted a couple of months back.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=65821

[MitchM]

For carbon, I would think on average, it will be active for at least a few months (or you're not doing enough water changes :)), so changing it every 30 days errs on the side of caution.

But how do you know it's on the side of caution?

as with my tanks, everything is equal, same corals, fish, salt, schedules, etc, just the actual two tanks (disp and sump) are different. But very different results. Not to say it's the glass, but I've pretty much thought of everything else.

I actually have a thread about this problem posted a couple of months back.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=65821

Yes, I know..and you didn't reply.....:razz:

[MitchM]

... Not to say it's the glass, but I've pretty much thought of everything else.

...

Have you ever seen any studies that glass could cause some problem?

[MitchM]

Borneman cited a study that showed where removing a certain coral caused some significant changes in one tank. I'll try to see if I can find that.

[Aquattro]

Have you ever seen any studies that glass could cause some problem?

No, more specifically, the silicone leaching toxins. I bought the tank and the sump used, so I have no idea on the history of either, and suspect one of them may have had copper. But just a guess after ruling out anything else I could think of.

[MitchM]

Are there any studies regarding the silicone?

[Aquattro]

Are there any studies regarding the silicone?

I'm sure there aren't, not really something that would qualify for funding :)

but, there's lots of discussions about not using tanks previously treated with copper, so I assume it's a possible scenario. I know that silicone can absorb methylene blue, so the likelyhood of it absorbing and leaching back Cu is pretty good, IMO.

[Lampshade]

Carbon has been used for MANY years, however it's still a big unknown. I stay away from it. My own preference, but works for me.

Try running without carbon for a bit even, carbon leaches out many trace elements that we need. Unless you have heavy LPS/SPS combo it shouldn't be an issue. I have 20+ SPS and 15+ LPS in my tank and only run carbon once a week for 24 hours(when i remember :S). I've had excelent growth on all my SPS, even some hidden away from good lighting.


As for the silicone thing, copper attatches itself to anything and everything it can, doesn't take much. They used to make mirror's by evaporating copper onto glass, and it would bond. I could only imagine how much gets onto the glass after dosing :S

[MitchM]

Well, there are studies regarding how plasticizers affect invertebrates, so it's certainly possible.

The reality is that our tanks are SO concentrated compared to the corals natural environment, any so called small problem is amplified many, many times.

[Reefer Rob]

LOL, we all think our corals grow slower than everyone else's.

Definitely check for stray voltage if you haven't already done that, it's a good place to start.

Do you have good polyp extension and color? STN, RTN? (we are talking SPS here aren't we)

[MitchM]

To give some idea of what a natural growth rate is (for a table acro, anyways), here is a link (http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/brian-skerry/) to a National Geographic article that shows a reef in the Phoenix islands.
This reef suffered a bleaching event in 2002 and the author went back in 2009 to find a table acro that had grown 4 feet in the 7 years since the bleaching event.
How many of us have 7 year old acros that are 4 feet across?:smile:

Given enough room, there are probably a few tanks out there that the corals could come close, so I don't think we are all that far from being fully successful raising corals.

Gives you an idea what type of growth you could be aiming for, anyways.

[Aquattro]

I've had several colonies that would put on an inch of growth in a month, so given the room and absence of fragging, I think we see similar growth in some tanks

[daniella3d]

but unless the other tank is exactly the same, with the same liverock, same coral etc, it is impossible to point this to the aquarium and silicone. I would very much doubt it. I would more suspect the liverock leaching something or coral relaesing toxine.

If you put all the same liverock, with the exact same coral with the same exact skimmer and filtration etc, salt, parameter with only the glass and silicone being different and then your coral started to grow, only then I would suspect the tank itself. But is it really exactly the same? same liverock? same exact coral? same positioning in relation to flow?

Are there any studies regarding the silicone?

[whatcaneyedo]

Did I miss the part where he answered how much flow is in the tank or did that get passed over? I've had acropora sit almost dormant for over a year until I put them in an area of higher flow. Then they suddenly exploded with growth and and lit up with color.

Also, have you tried any brown coral? Its common knowledge that ugly brown coral grows like a weed while colorful, limited edition, super expensive etc does squat. lol (joking... sort of)

[Aquattro]

If you put all the same liverock, with the exact same coral with the same exact skimmer and filtration etc, salt, parameter with only the glass and silicone being different and then your coral started to grow, only then I would suspect the tank itself. But is it really exactly the same? same liverock? same exact coral? same positioning in relation to flow?

As close to yes as you can get. Same rock, with some new, same corals, roughly in the same areas of lighting and flow. Same equipment, same salt, same reactor media. Different glass box.

[spawn]

My tank is now 7 months old, I've got 31 sps Acros, millis, seriatorpora, monti ,all show growth, some is very minimal but some is PDG IMO. I think I'm impatient though & a victim of my own ocd. (to much looking for growth) I just picked up a new GHL last night, so now that will be more stable as well. but with more stability I certainly hope for more growth!