Would you buy from an LFS that dodges questions?...****** Apology******* [Archive]

paddyob

12-21-2010, 08:20 PM

If a question is asked... why can't the LFS answer without becoming defensive and making crappy comments?

To clarify for some..... if you ask a retailer/owner a question, and they do not answer... or they choose to become defensive about your question... what would you do? What would this indicate?

Have you experienced this? Do you find it more with online retailers or the LFS?

Ross

12-21-2010, 08:45 PM

Depends what the question is...

IE. Whats your markup?? Who are your suppliers and can I buy direct?? etc.

In my case it depends on the store, some yes I put up with it because of price, but others I don't.
Misinformation and question dodging stores, tend to run poor setups and product speaks for its self.

My favorite question to base a store off of is "What qt do you do to new livestock arrivals"

Store 1: Whats a QT?
Store 2: Fresh water dip 5 minutes then good to go.
Store 3: Not sure, can't get an answer.
Store 4: 2 step api meds 1-2 weeks
Store 5: A blend of meds and make sure they are eating well

I very seldomly buy from stores 1, 2, and 3 but frequently from stores 4 and 5
Oddly enough they are opposite ends of the price scale.
Store 1 and 3 are the highest priced and poorest quality livestock. (ie several yellow tangs with no fins for sale 30% off)

I'll put up with only so much BS before taking my money elsewhere.
Move on to better stores and dont look back.

ponokareefer

12-21-2010, 08:48 PM

Depends what the question is. If the question is "When did you get that fish in?", they should be able to give you a reasonable answer. If your asking them a question like "I saw that cheaper online, why are you gauging me?", you might find they get a little defensive. I'm not saying it's right, but some might.

paddyob

12-21-2010, 08:51 PM

Parker

12-21-2010, 09:09 PM

I think mortality is subjective. Most people can't keep Moorish Idols alive, but there are plenty of people that can. The same holds true for many other species does that mean they shouldn't be sold? I don't believe so and most LFS are pretty good at being able to dissuade someone from buying a fish that they might not be ready for.

You have Chromis in your tank, they have a tendency to kill each other, does that make you any better or worse than the LFS?

I'm not trying to be confrontational here, most people tend to turn a blind eye to the rules they are breaking while pointing fingers at others. Myself included, I have fish I shouldn't have.
__________________

paddyob

12-21-2010, 09:16 PM

I agree to a point... but if the specimen is known to have a high mortality rate why is it still sold?

Its an animal. Short of starting a "PETA" conversation, which I definitely will not get into.... an animal is an animal... regardless of what type of animal it is.

If a tiger is treated poorly everyone would start pointing fingers.... why not fish? They have a right to live don't they?

I am no expert in this hobby by far.... but don't we expect this from the people who are supposed to be?

Parker

12-21-2010, 09:41 PM

It's really up to the purchaser to make a responsible decision. The LFS may ask you questions ( How big is your tank, how long has it been operational, what other fish do you have in your tank, etcetera ) but it's up to you to be honest with yourself and answers. If people are buying fish without educating themselves first….. aren’t they just as much to blame? You can’t simply blame the LFS.

To use your example. I agree if a tiger is being treated poorly it should be dealt with, on a case my case basis. Not paint everyone with the same brush as you're suggesting. There are people out there that are very versed in caring for Tigers, should they be forced to stop doing good work because of one bad egg?

Fish definitely have the right to live, I just don't believe it's as simple as your making it out to be. As mentioned before, mortality is subjective.

sphelps

12-21-2010, 09:44 PM

Really you do have to remember a LFS is a business and therefore profits are important. If you want to think that this hobby has a positive influence on the wild that's fine but realistically it simply isn't the case. I've read studies that say over 90% of all important livestock dies within a year which isn't a good number but it's probably true. Also the way I look at it is as soon as something is taken from the wild the damage is done unless you plan on returning it which obviously isn't the case. Then you also have to consider perception, there is a line between what can and can't be kept but everyone has their own lines and it's not fair for one person to come in and say their line or opinion is the right one.

To be honest if someone off the street came in and tried to tell me how to do my job or how to run my business I wouldn't respond much differently. Quite frankly if you don't like it go elsewhere, you're not being a hero you're just being annoying and disruptive. Maybe it was just a question but I see it as more than that. But that's just how I see it and I don't mean any offense.

BlueWorldAquatic

12-21-2010, 09:45 PM

The biggest issue with this is what is the LFS hiding?

Short of asking for our costs & suppliers, there are no unreasonable questions.

The problem is is they have the answers. Are the staff train well enough to admit they don't have all the answers.

I personally can attest to not knowing everything, and tell the customer i'll check or look it up for them.

What it all comes down to is,are you confortable with the store or their answers?

You hold all the cards, if you aren't then you don't need to shop there.

Just my experience.

Ken - BWA

paddyob

12-21-2010, 10:07 PM

To be honest if someone off the street came in and tried to tell me how to do my job or how to run my business I wouldn't respond much differently. Quite frankly if you don't like it go elsewhere, you're not being a hero you're just being annoying and disruptive. Maybe it was just a question but I see it as more than that. But that's just how I see it and I don't mean any offense.

Wanting a direct answer is disruptive?

It had nothing to do with what your comment says. It asked for clarification to which the retailer made a snide comment.

Too bad more people are not concerned about the oceans.

reefwars

12-21-2010, 10:15 PM

Couldn't agree more with the last three posts and it's completely on the buyer to make smart choices.....I guess if we never brought them in they wouldn't be in our hobby in the first , at one time just about all the fish we have in our hobby were considered impossible to keep alive by the average hobbyst, but as time goes by technology gets better and people make breakthroughs with hard to keep fish:)

Personally I wouldn't buy a copperband but I know of those who have done well with them so hopefully someday it will be possible to own one for it's full lifespan:):)

Although I do see what you mean pat, and a good lfs should answer all your questions and support their product :):)

paddyob

12-21-2010, 10:18 PM

Thanks Denny.

It just bothers me when the retailer STATES about poor survival rate then won't answer the "hard" questions in regards to it. This is not about who is right and who is wrong. Or who can keep a tiger alive (it was simply a comparison that came to mind).

I just want a question answered with respect. IF A DEALER/SPONSOR does not want to address questions regarding their POSTS, maybe they should stick to the Penny Saver.

it is obvious the retailer did not know the answer to my question, and covered ignorance with anger. There are many good sponsors on here who are more than willing to address any concerns we as reefers have. But we all know of a few who are questionable.

Sphelps, this is not finger pointing or anything. I simply feel, again, that an LFS should be able to answer questions. I was confused by his "facts" and he did not like having to face the questions. He replied with snarky comments and that is poor business.

Perhaps a "few specific" online dealers feel that since they don't see us face to face they can avoid the big issues. One more reason to stay local. Trust.

paddyob

12-21-2010, 10:36 PM

I want to reiterate.... this is not a blanket statement about all LFS and people in the hobby. This applies, I am sure, to a small group.

Please be constructive while interpreting this thread. It is about an LFS and the lack of openness with the consumer. Not about telling the LFS how to run the business, etc, etc. At no time did I tell anybody how to this or that. I simply asked a question and was answered with hostility for some reason an insult.

Please, please remember this.

Ross

12-21-2010, 10:47 PM

How about direct questions on mortality and the practice of removing animals that have a high mortality rate?

When a dealer gets defensive... to me that says "Please buy something as all I care about is money."

Are you certain that the dealer ordered this fish in?
I've seen countless times that a LFS orders in a specific strain of Discus and the distributer substitutes another strain in its place because they were not instock at the time of shipping.

(Freshwater yes, but the point is the same if not worse for Marine as they are 99% dependant on the fish being located and caught)

If it wasnt ordered and many people question why they would bring it in, then I could see them getting annoyed.
Either way poor practice to bark at a customer.

Any business man knows without customers your store amounts to nothing so... "The customer is allways right"
Perhaps they were a special order for a naive customer that backed out of the deal?

paddyob

12-21-2010, 10:52 PM

Are you certain that the dealer ordered this fish in?
I've seen countless times that a LFS orders in a specific strain of Discus and the distributer substitutes another strain in its place because they were not instock at the time of shipping.

(Freshwater yes, but the point is the same if not worse for Marine as they are 99% dependant on the fish being located and caught)

If it wasnt ordered and many people question why they would bring it in, then I could see them getting annoyed.

The answer is yes Ross. And I asked for clarification on his posted facts.

I have since removed all my posts from the thread in question as I do not want to be associated with him at all. He can field the questions again (I hope) and the vendor has been blocked from contacting me again.

paddyob

12-21-2010, 10:54 PM

Any business man knows without customers your store amounts to nothing so... "The customer is allways right"
Perhaps they were a special order for a naive customer that backed out of the deal?

I do not feel the customer is always right. In fact the customer is usually wrong a lot. But the customer has a right to fair treatment and honesty from the retailer.

cale262

12-21-2010, 10:59 PM

Maybe I'm confused here...But I don't see the whole point of this thread?

Aquattro

12-21-2010, 11:05 PM

Too bad more people are not concerned about the oceans.

This one always gets me. If more people were concerned, wouldn't there be a lot less tanks around? Removing a wild animal from it's environment and putting it in a cage is not showing great concern :)
Let's be honest, we're all a bit selfish in this hobby.

paddyob

12-21-2010, 11:06 PM

Maybe I'm confused here...But I don't see the whole point of this thread?

Its in the Lounge area.... open discussion...

Thread title... "Would you buy from an LFS thats dodges questions?" Nothing more nothing less.

It is, for the most part, personal opinions. Some on topic... some off.

cale262

12-21-2010, 11:10 PM

Oh I see the title but the first post is more of a troll than a question...

paddyob

12-21-2010, 11:17 PM

This one always gets me. If more people were concerned, wouldn't there be a lot less tanks around? Removing a wild animal from it's environment and putting it in a cage is not showing great concern :)
Let's be honest, we're all a bit selfish in this hobby.

I agree with your comment, to a point. It is more, I guess, about the lack of openness by a retailer when asked about "specific" animals.

We all know most fish are ok. But why support the purchase of specimens that are not aquarium suitable? Many Mandarins die to the inexperienced. Copperbands, Parrotfish, etc. A lot of people do not know about the special requirements some possess and some retailers do not educate.

There are many, MANY knowledgeable people in this hobby. BUT, there are also many who know nothing. There are also retailers who fall into both categories. If a retailer cannot be open about legitimate questions, then they probably also do not educate the less knowledgable of us.

I do my best to research the proper animals for my system and will personally never buy one I know has high mortality or one I am not advanced enough to support. So when I ask a retailer... it is BECAUSE I do not have the answer and expect they should. If they do not want to answer, or answer with ignorant comments.... wow. That is my point.

My only real concern... Factual and fair advice and answers from the retailer or lack there of.

Aquattro

12-21-2010, 11:21 PM

paddyob

12-21-2010, 11:25 PM

Oh I see the title but the first post is more of a troll than a question...

Yes Cale... this thread has gone many ways and may seem confusing by the time you read on.

It has gotten a little off topic but has made for an interesting discussion. Which I do appreciate. There are many points of view, whether or not we all agree it appears.

But to clarify Cale.... if you ask a retailer/owner a question, and they do not answer... or they choose to become defensive about your question... what would you do? What would this indicate?

Have you experienced this? Do you find it more with online retailers or the LFS?

This is based on an earlier experience I had today with a Specific sponsor. I am not going to mention his business as I am not here to cause a vendor back lash or what have you. It is merely about conflicting info he posted and was very ignorant in his answering of the questions I had...

paddyob

12-21-2010, 11:32 PM

Aquattro

12-21-2010, 11:36 PM

I removed my comments as I do not want to be part of that conversation any longer.

Based on his manner of replies... I do not want any association to him.

Fair enough, but without both parts, it's hard to tell where to draw the line.

In general, I would expect that a vendor would sell a fish only if he thought there was a reasonable chance someone could keep it alive. Depending on how the topic was approached would dictate the type of answer returned. I've actually gone to the LFS and had the manager tell me I'm nuts. And he was right, and I'd rather he told me that than just smiled and agreed with me.

The Grizz

12-21-2010, 11:36 PM

I guess the difficulty here is you removed all your comments and we can only see the replies, which skews the context of the conversation. The "too much time" comment was probably out of line, but without the background, we can't tell.
As for the LFS, it's their job to sell stuff, it's our job to research it. In fact, I would never ask a question at the LFS that I didn't already have the answer to.

This is my EXACT OPINION and I can be very opinionated and very vocal. As a business owner I feel it is my job to know all about the things I do and services I provide. But as a SW hobbyist I try to research everything I want to add to my tank as much as possible. It is not up to us as hobbyist to question what LFS do or bring in because they are in business to make money.

BUT if I have a problem with a certain shop I WILL NOT RETURN to that store and I do have my favorites and I will say that RED CORAL Calgary and BLUE WORLD in Edmonton are my favorite to visit. I don't expect to them to know everything but if they don't know and I don't know then it is research time for both. There are a few questionable shop out there one being here in Red Deer ( opps there I go again :surprise:) and a few with questionable pricing but who are we to tell them what to do. I just say don't go back if there is an issue.

Just my 2 cents worth.

reefwars

12-21-2010, 11:43 PM

ummmmm so how bout that local sports team huh??:):)

paddyob

12-21-2010, 11:45 PM

This is my EXACT OPINION and I can be very opinionated and very vocal. As a business owner I feel it is my job to know all about the things I do and services I provide. But as a SW hobbyist I try to research everything I want to add to my tank as much as possible. It is not up to us as hobbyist to question what LFS do or bring in because they are in business to make money.

BUT if I have a problem with a certain shop I WILL NOT RETURN to that store and I do have my favorites and I will say that RED CORAL Calgary and BLUE WATER in Edmonton are my favorite to visit. I don't expect to them to know everything but if they don't know and I don't know then it is research time for both. There are a few questionable shop out there one being here in Red Deer ( opps there I go again :surprise:) and a few with questionable pricing but who are we to tell them what to do. I just say don't go back if there is an issue.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Agree they will make money. They say the easiest money is made dishonestly ha ha!

Blue Water = Blue World I assume.

What I like, as Ken BW mentioned earlier... as a retailer he does not know it all and will not claim to... but he will find out.

Whether or not the retailer likes your questions, they should be respectful and just answer. Again I feel I need to reiterate... It is not about telling the retailer what to do or what to order.... it is about the lack of willingness to be straight up and simply answer direct questions.

If a retailer will not answer... then they MUST be hiding something.

And yes... I will not frequent stores that have a closed door policy or provide poor information or service.

The Grizz

12-21-2010, 11:59 PM

If a retailer will not answer... then they MUST be hiding something.

Or ......... they don't know the answer and are not willing to admit they don't know it.

paddyob

12-21-2010, 11:59 PM

ummmmm so how bout that local sports team huh??:):)

Come ON DENNY!!! STAY ON TOPIC ALREADY!!!! HA HA!

paddyob

12-22-2010, 12:00 AM

Or ......... they don't know the answer and are not willing to admit they don't know it.

This is what I think as well Greg..... and unfortunately the retailer was not too friendly about it.

The Grizz

12-22-2010, 12:01 AM

ummmmm so how bout that local sports team huh??:):)

Which one?? the one that might be moving to Quebec :lol:

paddyob

12-22-2010, 12:05 AM

Fair enough, but without both parts, it's hard to tell where to draw the line.

In general, I would expect that a vendor would sell a fish only if he thought there was a reasonable chance someone could keep it alive. Depending on how the topic was approached would dictate the type of answer returned.

Agreed. I just do not wish to drag the specific retailer into this by getting too specific. The info he posted I found very confusing.

I wanted clarification Professionally and politely.

Not with sarcasm.

The Grizz

12-22-2010, 12:08 AM

This is what I think as well Greg..... and unfortunately the retailer was not too friendly about it.

Then I would say they need a lesson in customer service and if it was me in your place they would have got one from me as I can get so POed when a retailer is rude and I WILL put them in there place real fast.

When I meet you on Sunday you seem to be a very happy go lucky dude and there was no need for them to react in that matter.

reefwars

12-22-2010, 12:09 AM

Come ON DENNY!!! STAY ON TOPIC ALREADY!!!! HA HA!

hahahaha for what its worth pat i do agree with you theres nothing more frustrating then someone who is " obviously" giving you the run around i mean honesty is the best policy if they dont know the answer they should just say so and no " good " business will take shots at the consumer i mean thats what 2 yr olds do lol.

from a different point of view if im painting someones house and they ask me why i went with the primer i did and that they heard it doesnt last or is inferrior and are forcing me for answers the last thing i would do is make an enemy of them i would simply reply with the info i have and if its still not good enough i would work with the consumer so as to everyones happy:):)

i mean the most important part of any business is consumers.....there has to be a buyer..... and the best way to insure that is to know your product be informative and do what ever you can to make the consumer happy....thus in return getting repeat business or word of mouth:):)

Zoaelite

12-22-2010, 12:16 AM

Oh how I love canreef drama.

I was in agreement with you until I actually read the thread in question. In all honesty you are REALLY dragging someone through the mud for absolutely no reason. Now if you were debating about something that actually made sense such as bringing in mass amounts of cleaner gobies or flame prawns then of course you have merit to comment.

Your not though... your dragging a vendor through the mud for a $1000 fish that is EXTREMELY rare and almost never brought into captivity. When they are brought in the extreme rarity and demand ensures that they will go to someone that knows what there doing.

I have a feeling the reason the paying vendor typed what he typed is because you quite clearly attacked him right off the bat. You ask us to judge but your smearing the evidence by removing your comments.

Ewww weird I actually agreed with you for once SP :lol:.

paddyob

12-22-2010, 12:18 AM

Then I would say they need a lesson in customer service and if it was me in your place they would have got one from me as I can get so POed when a retailer is rude and I WILL put them in there place real fast.

When I meet you on Sunday you seem to be a very happy go lucky dude and there was no need for them to react in that matter.

Thanks Man. I appreciate the compliment.

I started to get mad... so I distanced myself from the retailer and thread before I did flip off.

That would get more negative attention than my views!!! HA ha! Every biz has happy customers and unhappy. Some I probably know... I don't want to cheese those guys off by acting the @55.

This thread is me venting on a poor experience I had earlier today. On a retailer I had not "YET" dealt with... and now... never will.

The Grizz

12-22-2010, 12:20 AM

OK now I want to know more info, what is the original thread to get some back ground info.

paddyob

12-22-2010, 12:29 AM

PLEASE DO NOT POST ANY SPECIFICS IN THIS THREAD.... IT IS NOT ABOUT BRINGING A NAME INTO THIS. I DO NOT WANT THIS TO GET UGLIER THAN IT IS BECOMING.

MOD PLEASE CLOSE.

Zoaelite

12-22-2010, 12:31 AM

*Cough page two cough New posts Cough*

Didn't mean to come off as a giant ass there btw, I just think we all forget far to easy that this board only operates because of the paying vendors, posting members and free labor mods. If the posting members are constantly attacking our paying vendors we won't have vendors any more (... Oceanic corals...) and by proxy we won't have a forum.

... stupid Christmas movies have gotten to me, I'm starting to rhyme with out even trying.

paddyob

12-22-2010, 12:36 AM

I just think we all forget far to easy that this board only operates because of the paying vendors, posting members and free labor mods. If the posting members are constantly attacking our paying vendors we won't have vendors any more (... Oceanic corals...) and by proxy we won't have a forum.

Zoa This is specifically why I have mentioned no specifics. Consider that.

I easily could say SO and SO is this and that..... but why.

A healthy conversation can be had without dragging his name into it.

Zoaelite

12-22-2010, 12:47 AM

Zoa This is specifically why I have mentioned no specifics. Consider that.

I easily could say SO and SO is this and that..... but why.

A healthy conversation can be had without dragging his name into it.

Haha I disagree, people are curious its how it works. Letting go one specific piece of info is like opening Pandora's box, after that point everyone needs to be on the in.

OK now I want to know more info, what is the original thread to get some back ground info.
Greg your to much like me :lol:.

The Grizz

12-22-2010, 12:48 AM

Every biz has happy customers and unhappy.

I know that all my customers are happy because I ask them and make sure they are happy with there finish project, that is my policy. RIGHT DENNY:lol::lol:

Bloodasp

12-22-2010, 12:56 AM

Agreed with what zoa said for the idea that i can't see your questions and the first reply seemed reasonable explanation enough for me anyway.
Not saying you were wrong it's just too murky when all i read the thread and see all your post not there except for the rant and his answers.

reefwars

12-22-2010, 01:01 AM

I know that all my customers are happy because I ask them and make sure they are happy with there finish project, that is my policy. RIGHT DENNY:lol::lol:

absolutely buddy:):) same goes here whenever i finish a job i find out what the customer thinks about it if i think for any reason their not happy i ask if theres anything else i can do:):)

The Grizz

12-22-2010, 01:37 AM

Ok so I now have the back story and I can see it from both sides but really and honestly it could have been handled better, IMO. I do agree with Levi that without our vendors CanReef would not exist but I also can see the other side of it as well. Some times there is posts that are alittle confusing and just dont read right in my mind.

I do think some times when we vent here it does tends to read differently to all of us. I know if I was to vent about some of the things that **** me off about certain things I would have a little title under my user name saying something like ' Jerk Of The Decade' :lol::lol:

cwatkins

12-22-2010, 01:58 AM

I was in agreement with you until I actually read the thread in question. In all honesty you are REALLY dragging someone through the mud for absolutely no reason. Now if you were debating about something that actually made sense such as bringing in mass amounts of cleaner gobies or flame prawns then of course you have merit to comment.

My two cents:

Why are we even allowed to remove the contents of our posts like this? I get so frustrated when I'm reading through threads and someone who has decided to change his/her option, or decides to leave Canreef, has gone through all 400+ posts he/she has ever made and put *removed*.

Also, the second someone has an issue with a Sponsor on Canreef but "doesn't want to name names", well anyone with half a mind can figure it out in 10 seconds by searching your post history...

I think from standing outside of the box here, this thread is unfair since the first initial thread has been tainted by editing out the one side of the story...

The Grizz

12-22-2010, 02:09 AM

My two cents:

Why are we even allowed to remove the contents of our posts like this? I get so frustrated when I'm reading through threads and someone who has decided to change his/her option, or decides to leave Canreef, has gone through all 400+ posts he/she has ever made and put *removed*.

Also, the second someone has an issue with a Sponsor on Canreef but "doesn't want to name names", well anyone with half a mind can figure it out in 10 seconds by searching your post history...

I think from standing outside of the box here, this thread is unfair since the first initial thread has been tainted by editing out the one side of the story...

Good points and I agree it is better to have all side of the story.

globaldesigns

12-22-2010, 02:25 AM

Hey, if all the vendors leave, I will host canreef for FREE... So that argument has flown out the window. HEHE, just wanted to stir the pot a bit. :biggrin:

I like you GRIZZ make sure my customers are happy. Taking the time to talk with the customer afterwards really makes a difference.

The Grizz

12-22-2010, 03:08 AM

Hey, if all the vendors leave, I will host canreef for FREE... So that argument has flown out the window. HEHE, just wanted to stir the pot a bit. :biggrin:

And you call me TROUBLE:lol::lol:

BlueWorldAquatic

12-22-2010, 03:46 AM

heh, some interesting reading.... Remember its Christmas time. We are ALL under a lot of stress customers and vendors alike.

Rule #1, in any business, the customer is always right.

Rule #2, you don't have to be my customer, and I have the right to refuse service.

In the year and half that I have run BWA, I think I have had 2 customers that I refused service to, one was someone that berated one of my younger employees, and a second was someone that was calling me a liar when I gave him a price on a RSM even Damon at Big AL's couldn't believe I gave him. Never saw the customer again, but you know what? I would have kicked him out if he showed up again.

As a customer, you have the right to shop anywhere you wish, as a vendor we have the right to refuse service. Do you notice signs everywhere now posted saying "abuse of employees will not be tolerated"?

Canreef is a great venue for information, also for venting. But inaccurate information, or censored posts don't show both sides of the issue accurately.

Patrick, forgive me if it is posted, but what was the question that got you so fired up?

Ken - BWA

kien

12-22-2010, 03:57 AM

clearly you are talking about AquaValley and the discussion you had with them in this thread (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=71000) as you made reference to it..

Depends what the question is...

Depends what the question is.

How about direct questions on mortality and the practice of removing animals that have a high mortality rate?

When a dealer gets defensive... to me that says "Please buy something as all I care about is money."

I'm just trying to put some of the missing pieces together :) From what I gathered on that other thread it did appear to me like the vendor's business was being attacked. Personally I think vendors have the right to dodge whatever questions they want. And yes, I frequently buy from vendors that have dodge some of my questions.

globaldesigns

12-22-2010, 06:11 AM

Paddyob, as someone that posts here, I can tell you that I have had my fair share of bashing. And yes, sometimes it does hurt.

May I recommend something to you, in future don't delete your posts, as it doesn't support your cause either way. And in most cases, just gives others more ammunition to hit you with. Just remember, some may take what you say and value it, but MORE people will probably just take it and hurt you with it. It is just the nature of the BEAST. Just remember this and don't take it to heart, it happens.

In regards to the hobby, others have posted this, and even myself on other threads. Really, do any of us have the right to take from the wild and cage it up. So as Aquattro stated, we are all selfish. In my opinion, if someone wants to spend large amounts of cash for a rare fish. Then go for it, some hobbyists have that cash flow to support it. Is it right? maybe not. But is it right that all of us do what we do? Again, maybe not.

So remember this when you see that expensive fish, morish Idols or any other fish/livestock/coral that may be controversial to some. The LFS store has the right to sell what they want, if there is a market for it. We as the purchaser have the right to buy what we want, and where.

I personally respect any LFS that can be honest with me, and if they don't know, they tell me. This type of honesty goes a long way and I respect that LFS or employee much more then.

Just my 2 cents. Hope it all made sense.

sphelps

12-22-2010, 01:19 PM

Ewww weird I actually agreed with you for once SP :lol:.
Yeah that'll happen :wink:

paddyob

12-22-2010, 10:37 PM

For some reason this got out of hand.

I meant no offence when I was asking questions of Aqua Valley. None. I felt that he was being snarky and a little over the top with some comments and it did upset me.

I apologize if the questions I asked offended him or anyone else, but I was genuinely confused.

As it is the holiday season.... I do not wish to hold any bad feelings. Obviously we (him and I) do not see eye to eye, and as many have pointed out.... many of us never will. That is however, no reason for either of us to act disrespectfully.

I apologize for my part in this issue.

Happy Holidays,

Patrick

cuz

12-22-2010, 11:11 PM

i seen the thread before you edited it and do think you where missing the vendors point.
Personally if i decide to get snarly with someone than i'm grown up enough to expect them bite back regardless of wheather it be vendor or customer!!!

Aqua Valley's customer service pulled through for me so I have nothing bad to say about them at all!!!

There are a million species out there that are difficult to keep but in the hands of an experienced hobbiest it could be an investment well spent!!

just my 2cents!!

Aquattro

12-22-2010, 11:30 PM

K, you gotta stop editting threads. There was no reason to change the title of this one, it just confuses everything. This is why the feature was turned off last month.

paddyob

12-22-2010, 11:39 PM

K, you gotta stop editting threads. There was no reason to change the title of this one, it just confuses everything. This is why the feature was turned off last month.

Title corrected.

cwatkins

12-23-2010, 12:24 AM

I think vendors have the right to dodge whatever questions they want. And yes, I frequently buy from vendors that have dodge some of my questions.

Yes, I agree. Some people don't like this, and if that's the case, you can exercise your right to take your $ and shop elsewhere.

We should always be careful about bashing anyone specific online here. We don't want another Oceanic Corals type of issue to happen again.