Hagen Tank braces

[Seth]

I have a question about the upper brace/frame thing on hagen tanks.

I really hate the look of the black frame and have always wanted a frameless tank.
Today I was washing out my 50 gallon freshwater tank and while trying to lift up the tank by the top frame, it started to come off! At first, I was like OH SHIT my tank! But then it didn't break or anything.

Do you guys think I could take of that frame? Does it serve a purpose or just there to look nice or ugly.

Thanks!

[Canadian Man]

Does the top frame have any cross braces?

If not then you will have no problems taking the outer rim of plasic off.
If there is cross braces then you need to leave it on because the cross brace is nessecary.

cheers

[three dawgs]

Frame is there for support in the corners. My cross brace on the other hand, silicone let go. My tank is a 90 gal. The canopy would not fit because the glass bowed out over half an inch. Suggestions, leave it all on. I had to get two people to help me put a brace in middle to pull tank together. Nothing worse then the tank sides letting do. Like I said frame at the top keeps the corners together. Lots of pressure on the glass. Learned that in Physics, cant remember the formula, but if your interested I could get it.

[Seth]

There's no cross brace on my tank. There is only the frame that goes around the top rectangle.

[Canadian Man]

There's no cross brace on my tank. There is only the frame that goes around the top rectangle.

Then if you want to take it off you will have no problems.

[Canadian Man]

Frame is there for support in the corners. My cross brace on the other hand, silicone let go. My tank is a 90 gal. The canopy would not fit because the glass bowed out over half an inch. Suggestions, leave it all on. I had to get two people to help me put a brace in middle to pull tank together. Nothing worse then the tank sides letting do. Like I said frame at the top keeps the corners together. Lots of pressure on the glass. Learned that in Physics, cant remember the formula, but if your interested I could get it.

The silicone keeps the corners together NOT the trim. If the trim on the tank has no center brace than it's there to cover the sharp top edges of the tank and that's it. There is much less pressure at the top of the tank then the bottom. one could take off the bottom trim as well as the silocone between the bottom glass and the outer tank walls is what would hold it together.

[Aquattro]

From what I ahve read, most (all?) tanks in europe do not have any trim at all. You do not need trim to keep anything together.

[Seth]

Ok Let me try taking it off today!
If it breaks, you guys have to come help me clean up! :razz: jkjk

[Samw]

Is it worth the risk Seth? I don't know if Hagen tanks are designed to be braceless. Do you know if braceless tanks use a different stronger type of silicone or not? I don't know what floor you are on but if there was a problem, it will be very difficult to remove the salt from the walls of the apartments below you. What kind of damage could salt do to the steel rods inside concrete floors if there were tiny cracks in the concrete. 50 gals is a lot of water.

[psuedo]

yeah, I can vouch for that. My landlady should have freaked at me when 40 gallons of water was soaked up by my carpet and the floor joists and the ceiling of the tenants below me. She was cool though.
Nowadays I am very careful

[sumpfinfishe]

IYWMO,
I would leave the trim on as it serves some purpose.
It helps to prevent the exposure of sharp edges and also to protect the glass if a canopy or light hood is placed on top of the tank.
As well, I'm sure that tank mfg's wouldn't spend the extra time and $ to install these things if they weren't needed.

Oh and Seth, You should NEVER lift a tank by the top of the glass even when empty, as this causes added stress to the silicone and glass.
It's a safe practise to always lift the tank from the bottom while trying to keep the tank level :mrgreen:

[Seth]

Hehe Okay, luckily I didn't have time to remove the brace today yet.
Maybe I'll just keep it on. I dont want water to be soaking down 13 floors of apartment : )

thanks guys!

[StirCrazy]

Oh and Seth, You should NEVER lift a tank by the top of the glass even when empty, as this causes added stress to the silicone and glass.

:eek: doh I lift all my smaller tanks (the ones I can lift myself) by the top of the side :confused:

Steve

[Aquattro]

If you did the physics on the force applied to the sides of the tank, you'd see that a wimpy little piece of plastic is certainly not holding your tank together. My tank has about 1500 pounds of water in it and uses bracing with snap together corners on the bracing. I can pull these apart by hand, so I'm willing to bet they don't hold my tank together.
The purpose it serves is to make the tank look "finished" and remove the need to polish the edges of the glass. Tank manufacturers put it on to make the tank pretty, and that increases sales.

[Samw]

Hagen does make frameless/seamless tanks and they seem to add a "strengthening bar" whatever that is.

http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/product.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=103&PROD_ID=01034260010101

I thought I also read that frameless tanks use thicker glass. On that website, they seem to supply glass thickness specs for frameless tanks but not the framed ones. I'm not sure why.

Other tanks:

http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/sub_category_psubtype.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=103&PSUBCAT=10301

[Samw]

Found some specs on frameless tank glass thickness. Not sure if frameless in this sense is in relation to the old-style metal frame or not.

http://www.nationalglass.com.au/products/11/11_09.html

[Aquattro]

I thought I also read that frameless tanks use thicker glass.

Sam, I can't see why that would be required. The plastic doesn't hold the tank together. Now if it has a built in plastic cross brace, removing that would require thicker glass.

[eposer]

One of the major reasons for trim on tanks with no center brace is to prevent breakage during transport. The edges of glass are chipped very easily and the tank can be cracked from even a small impact on the top or botton edges. As far as the trims structural purposes there isn't much. If you look at many less expensive tanks the trim is not even joined at the corners but is instead made of four seperate pieces adding no strength whatsoever.

[Samw]

If you did the physics on the force applied to the sides of the tank, you'd see that a wimpy little piece of plastic is certainly not holding your tank together. My tank has about 1500 pounds of water in it and uses bracing with snap together corners on the bracing. I can pull these apart by hand, so I'm willing to bet they don't hold my tank together.
The purpose it serves is to make the tank look "finished" and remove the need to polish the edges of the glass. Tank manufacturers put it on to make the tank pretty, and that increases sales.


I wasn't suggesting there is 1500lbs being exerted on the rim though as the silicone has taken up most of that. Its probably a lot lot less being exerted on the rim. I just thought the rim could help with some minor reinforcement.

[Acro]

Hey Guys,
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned or not but Hagen is marketing a braceless tank now. I seen one at Hidden Reef. I'm not sure if they used thicker glass compared to a braced tank of the same size. I will say it looked sweet with polished and beveled edges.

[Samw]

Jamie, yeah, I posted a link to the specs on one of those in the previous page. It looks good.

Seth, you could send Hagen an Email and see what they have to say. It would be interesting to get an official response.

[Acro]

Hey Sam, :smile: Geuss thats what I get for skimming over the thread.

[Canadian Man]

Jamie, yeah, I posted a link to the specs on one of those in the previous page. It looks good.

Seth, you could send Hagen an Email and see what they have to say. It would be interesting to get an official response.

Of course their not going to suggest/approve of taking off the plastic trim :rolleyes:

[EmilyB]

Well, when the tank is empty, the center brace sags, and when you fill the tank the centre brace is tight. Would that not be serving some, albeit small, strengthening? :confused:

Given my flood reputation, I'd NEVER take it off with some other modification. :mrgreen:

[Aquattro]

Em ,absolutely. As I said, if it also contains the centre brace, taking it off isn't a good idea. The frame aloe though provides no structural support

[Seth]

There are NO center brace for my tank.

I think I'll just keep it on just for safety.