Starfire Lighting Suggestions

[Jfish]

So im in the process of upgrading to a new tank and im looking for some lighting suggestions. I recently got a used starfire tank on a amazing good deal. Its 55 inches long, 35 inches wide and 25 inches deep. The tanks overflow is an island in the middle that measures 17 inches long and 7.5 inches wide leaving four viewable sides. The end pieces of the overflow extend upwards an extra four inches which leaves a nice little spot to rest a fixture.

Once I get the thing setup I will transfer over the contents of my 75 gallon reef. Its mostly lps coral (elegance, torch, hammer, frogspawn) and zoas with two leathers (toadstool, yellow fiji) although I don't want to limit myself by not having enough light for sps either since it will be my last tank for a long time.

At first I plan on moving over my current fixture. Its a nova extreme 8x54w and just rest it on the overflow. It lights my 75 perfectly but with this being twice the width and lots of light being lost to the overflow it just seems like it will be lacking. I wont really know forsure until I set it on there but looking for some other options so I can possibly start collecting equipment.

Possible options I've considered.

- current fixture will provide enough light (cheap and easy but can't hang)

- getting a two bulb metal halide/t5 fixture

- hang two tek 6x54w fixtures above the tank

- 3-36 inch fixtures to span the width of the tank (clutter/lots of chords)


Im kinda leaning towards using two tek fixtures which would allow me to hang them above my tank. It would require new fixtures since my current won't hang but it would leave a nice clean look. Would that provide me with enough light to add sps later. Any input would be appreciated or if there is something I haven't thought of let me know.

[reefwars]

If your light doesn't hang is it possible to screw some holes in it and make it hang using some nuts/washes and some of those bolts with the ring on top???

[Jfish]

Well I think it would be possible with some sort of Macgyver job if I opened up the fixture. Im not sure how confident I would feel about putting it over my tank though since the basic frame of the fixture is plastic.

[Myka]

I think you should just sell me that tank because your lights won't work too well on it, and mine will! :p I heard about the deal you got on that. :eek:

Anyway, I think you're better off with halides for this setup. A couple of pendants would work well so you could space them evenly. I would suggest 2x250w either DE on HQI ballasts or SE on electronic ballasts, then be careful to pick bulbs with decent output. I would suggest Phoenix bulbs either DE or SE depending which setup you decide on, or Aquaconnect bulbs if you're feeling rich. :lol: Then use big reflectors for good light spread like the full size Lumenarc, Lumenmax, or Lumenbrite. If you plan on going with SPS in the future I would suggest 400w just because of the spread issue.

However, with mostly LPS and softies I think you should just try your 8x54w T5 fixture for now, you may find that is enough light. Just position it in the middle. Or I think you would be fine with two 4x54w T5 fixtures, one on each side of the overflow.

[Jfish]

Yeah I did consider pendants since they could still be hanged above and leave a clean look. I guess I just don't have the understanding of MH so its a little intimidating trying to figure out how to piece it togeather. So your suggesting using two or three pendants, each pendant having two bulbs inside of it. Then spacing the pendants evenly across the length of the tank. That way the two bulbs in the pendant would be spaced a bit so not as much light would be going straight into the overflow.

I take it the pendants only have a power cord coming out of them that could be run down into the stand. Then each pendant would attach to a seperate ballast?

If you don't mind me asking a good place to get all this stuff if I decide to go that route or at least gain a better understanding of it. I see on JL site you can pick bulbs and ballast but not the reflector. Maybe im just looking in the wrong spot.

[mattdean]

I hung my 8 bulb Tek light with a Sunlift suspension and it ROCKS! I just lift it out of the way and push it back down when I'm done. Very clean looking.

[Myka]

Yeah I did consider pendants since they could still be hanged above and leave a clean look. I guess I just don't have the understanding of MH so its a little intimidating trying to figure out how to piece it togeather. So your suggesting using two or three pendants, each pendant having two bulbs inside of it. Then spacing the pendants evenly across the length of the tank. That way the two bulbs in the pendant would be spaced a bit so not as much light would be going straight into the overflow.

Not quite. Two pendants, one bulb in each pendant. One pendant on each end of the tank with a slightly larger gap between the two lights than the gap between each light and the end of the tank.

I take it the pendants only have a power cord coming out of them that could be run down into the stand. Then each pendant would attach to a seperate ballast?

Yes, one cord going from each pendant to each ballast, then one cord from each ballast to the wall. You can buy dual ballasts too, so they are 2 in 1. Still have one cord from each pendant though, but only one cord to the wall.

If you don't mind me asking a good place to get all this stuff if I decide to go that route or at least gain a better understanding of it. I see on JL site you can pick bulbs and ballast but not the reflector. Maybe im just looking in the wrong spot.

I have some pendants, ballasts, and reflectors I could show you how they work. Makes more sense to see yourself.

On J&L's site they allow you to pick ballasts and bulbs together because some ballasts will only run certain bulbs, so some bulbs will only run on certain ballasts. They have taken that guesswork out for you by only listing the compatible options. You buy the reflectors separately, you just have to match DE or SE (double end or single end).

Personally, I prefer to buy locally rather than buying from J&L Aquatics. I suggest you talk to Bayside Corals or The Reef Shoppe and buy from whoever can get you the best price on the equipment you decide on. You may be surprised how close many prices are to J&L.

[naesco]

I would recommend you go with LED.
The lighting is discrete and compact. There is no heat and minimal electricity is used.
The florescence is outstanding under the blue LED lighting.

You can find inexpensive LED lighting at www.fish-street.com Your tank size will determine whether you want Key or Maxspect LED lighting.

Based on my experience to date I would personally never buy a MH light again.

[Jfish]

Well thanks for the input Myka. That setup does make sense it just seems like there would be a dull gap in the middle. I like the shimmer of the metal halide but I like the flexibility of my current T5 bulb setup and the flourescence of the actinics. It gives me something to think about anyways. Im sure there will be more than one phone call to colby for more information or suggestions too. Ideally I should put a nice big LED fixture on it but until the pricing comes down I don't see it happening.

Probably have to wait and see how my current fixture looks and then go from there.

[reefwars]

If you want 400w mh I have 4 of them and the ballast reflectors etc selling them cheap.

Our set ups are close in design somewhat , check out my build I'm having a light ring made and I'm mounting 4 x 250w pendants and I'm gonna use Cree LEDs to supplement and start and finish my light cycle. That ways I always get the shimmer and my halides aren't running all day:):)

[Jfish]

Yeah our tanks are really similar. I like the type of glass that was used for your overflow. Mine is just regular glass which will eventually be covered by some black plastic.

I don't think I would go with four 400w pendants. That seems like a lot although im sure it would be nice and bright. Would it be possible to use my current t5 setup resting on the overflow and build a support or hang a couple MH in the middle of the length to supplement the T5. The T5 would be sitting about 4 inches off the water. Could a MH sit in line with the T5 fixture that close to the water or do they have to be suspended higher? Or would that possibly just create a spotlight effect in the middle of the tank?

[reefwars]

Yeah our tanks are really similar. I like the type of glass that was used for your overflow. Mine is just regular glass which will eventually be covered by some black plastic.

I don't think I would go with four 400w pendants. That seems like a lot although im sure it would be nice and bright. Would it be possible to use my current t5 setup resting on the overflow and build a support or hang a couple MH in the middle of the length to supplement the T5. The T5 would be sitting about 4 inches off the water. Could a MH sit in line with the T5 fixture that close to the water or do they have to be suspended higher? Or would that possibly just create a spotlight effect in the middle of the tank?


your t5's would be fine that close and would work on your overflow theres quite a few who do that with a center overflow like yours and if you have the room for halides i would put 2 x 250w in there as well. now the halides being that close is another issue if your using pendants i would be worried about splash or heat issues as they dont have any fans and run quite hot.

you could retrofit your t5's if you want to strip them and make a " canopy " using some halides and have it so your halides are higher than your t5's but still resting on your overflow:)

thats why i went with the light ring i want light all around i want it to be clean and i can mount whatever and change the height of anything i feel:):)


how are you gonna set this tank up against the wall or pennesula or island?????

show us some pics :):)

[sphelps]

The tank was designed to allow a 4' photon (German) fixture to sit on the overflow extensions. The fixture had two halides and 6 T5s. The position of the halides was moved to the far outside edges of the the fixture which provided most of the light for the two sides of the tank. The fixture was wide enough that the T5s filled in the remaining parts of the tank.

If the tank isn't going to be viewable from all sides anymore I would suggest moving the overflow box to the back so you can light the tank easier with a standard 4' fixture.

If you can't move the box and you're pretty handy I would suggest building a fixture which uses either halides or LEDs. Two halides will not be enough, and T5s alone won't be ideal either.

[Jfish]

The tank has four viewable sides so i'll make use of them and make it an island. It will be at the one end of my basement with enough room to walk around three of the sides. I also have a doorless closet near the wall where its going to go so probably try to squeeze in a nice chaise lounge on the other side for observing. I think I have some friends coming over tonight to move it down to the basement so i'll try to get some pics if I get it down there.

Yeah the more I look at the light ring you had made the more I like it. It leaves it nice and clean but you can still centeralize the wires and hide them pretty easy. That or possibly just pony up and get a two bulb MH fixture with the t5's built in.

[reefwars]

The tank was designed to allow a 4' photon (German) fixture to sit on the overflow extensions. The fixture had two halides and 6 T5s. The position of the halides was moved to the far outside edges of the the fixture which provided most of the light for the two sides of the tank. The fixture was wide enough that the T5s filled in the remaining parts of the tank.

If the tank isn't going to be viewable from all sides anymore I would suggest moving the overflow box to the back so you can light the tank easier with a standard 4' fixture.

If you can't move the box and you're pretty handy I would suggest building a fixture which uses either halides or LEDs. Two halides will not be enough, and T5s alone won't be ideal either.


totally agreed plus you dont want your halides on all day so your gonna want something and leds can fit just about into any plan.

i hope you plan on using the tank as all sides viewable gives you so much more room for growth and coral options:):)

[sphelps]

I would be pretty easy to build a low profile fixture out of plywood a little smaller than the tank perimeter and then install LED modules in it or low profile halide retros or pendants. You can just get the pre-primed plywood and paint it black and have it sit on the overflow extensions. It would look pretty sharp. This was an option the previous owner and I considered at the time of the build but we went with a stock fixture because it was easier at the time as a lot of other work was needed.

[Jfish]

Thanks for all the great info and ideas here guys. I couldn't wrap my head around the idea of a canopy until you described it like that. It makes a lot more sense with just pendants and led's without trying to cram that t5 fixture in there as well. So i might just have to raise the canopy a bit higher off the water and add some fans for cooling the pendants. And with the led's being more a more focused beam it wont matter if they sit higher up off the water?

[sphelps]

Thanks for all the great info and ideas here guys. I couldn't wrap my head around the idea of a canopy until you described it like that. It makes a lot more sense with just pendants and led's without trying to cram that t5 fixture in there as well. So i might just have to raise the canopy a bit higher off the water and add some fans for cooling the pendants. And with the led's being more a more focused beam it wont matter if they sit higher up off the water?
I was kind of suggesting either LEDs or Halides, you could do both I guess but I think it would be better to go with one or the other. For LEDs they will be fine that high but you'll want to use narrower optics and possibly more LEDs tighter together. The halides will be a much cheaper option and easier to setup, you'll just need 4 250W DE retro kits.

[Jfish]

Hmm, gets me thinking to either go with three or four 250w pendants in the canopy or strictly led. How many led's would you suggest to still provide enough light for some higher demand corals/sps or anenome.

No offense, but can I ask why you would run one or the other but not both togeather.

[Jfish]

Hmm, gets me thinking to either go with three or four 250w pendants in the canopy or strictly led. How many led's would you suggest to still provide enough light for some higher demand corals/sps or anenome. Also how are the led's controlled. Would I need a specific controller to power up power down the led's or could I just run them to a timed powerbar.

No offense, but can I ask why you would run one or the other but not both togeather.

[sphelps]

Hmm, gets me thinking to either go with three or four 250w pendants in the canopy or strictly led. How many led's would you suggest to still provide enough light for some higher demand corals/sps or anenome. Also how are the led's controlled. Would I need a specific controller to power up power down the led's or could I just run them to a timed powerbar.

No offense, but can I ask why you would run one or the other but not both togeather.

4 halides for sure with the overflow in the center, not sure how 3 would work with that tank.

You could do both but for simplicity I would stick with one or the other, if you went with both I would still suggest 4 halides and then extra LEDs for supplemental. If you tried to light part of the tank with halides and the remaining parts will LEDs it will look funny as they both have a different effect and you would see a visible lighting difference through the tank.

For LEDs alone you would be looking at around 144 to 168 LEDs. You'd be looking at around $1200-1500 for a fairly complete retro kit.

[reefwars]

The fusneedit pendants are fairly cheap and are clean looking.

The lighting is the hard part when doing a full walkaround tank, I'm going with 4 fishneedit pendants I got all four for under 500 and I'm using 24 LEDs to supplement they will cost around 300 :)

this was the cheapest way I could think of to work out mine:)

[Jfish]

Yeah, well its a good thing the tank was a steal cause this lighting might get expensive. Honestly considering going the homemade led canopy resting on the overflow. Won't be cheap but I think in the long run might pay for itself.

[Jfish]

Well I didn't exactly get the tank moved since my friends thought it would be too heavy for four people. I at least managed to get it in the house by myself fairly easily. Don't really have much to show but here are a couple pics of it. Hopefully can get some help soon to get it down the stairs.

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx205/Jfish_2010/DSC01584.jpg?t=1291951854

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx205/Jfish_2010/DSC01586.jpg?t=1291951905
It appears my new kitten Zeppelin thinks he has a new cat house.

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx205/Jfish_2010/DSC01588.jpg?t=1291952091
New Vertex 200 alpha skimmer. Can't wait to get this thing setup.

[mattdean]

That is a sweet skimmer, for sure. You are going to be very happy with that!

Is that a Catfish? It's a little early to be adding livestock, don't you think?:lol:

[Jfish]

ha ha yeah and he's a jumper, I already had to scoop him outta the overflow once.