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searay
12-08-2010, 01:11 AM
Hi everyone.
I'm new to this forum and to salt.I have had freshwater tanks for a long time and finally decided to do a FOWLR aquarium.
I have done a bit of research and have started to aquire equipment.
Some opinions would be great.
This is what I got so far.
-I bought a used 120 gal 48x24x24 starphire glass tank with corner overflow,stand and 70 gal sump and mag 18 return pump.
-Ordered a SWC extreme 200 skimmer
-Ordered 100 lbs eco rock
-have two 24" glo t5 h0 light fixtures,heater and tunze auto topoff for sump.
Questions.
I removed the baffles in the sump so I can custom it for the equipment I have and a refuge.Sump is 40" x 20"w x 18"t Ideas?
Can I downgrade from the mag 18 to a eheim 1262 ?
The drilled return and overflow holes are drilled pretty big.Will this be an issue.?
Tank will be in the living room and not sure how loud the mag 18 will be or if I need that much flow for a fowlr.
Want to do a sandbed and a glass top as a wrasse might be on my list.
Stumped on the sand.How deep and what kind?
Was thinking some type of caribsea brand.
Hints on cycling and adding live rock to seed would be great.
Still going over the fish list so will have more Q's if you folks don't mind.
Great site.
Thanks
Rob

MitchM
12-08-2010, 01:30 AM
Welcome to Canreef!:smile:

I'm not familiar with most of the equipment that you listed, but with the other things:
How large are the overflow holes that you mentioned?
You will probably be needing to be vacuuming your sand as part of maintenance, so appearance is what would be most important. There are different colours - white, pink, black. Caribsea select size would do. I wouldn't go too much bigger. 2" depth at the most.
Get at least one piece of live rock to go with your eco rock and let the sand and all the rock live in your fully set up and running system for around 4 weeks. The best indicator is your ammonia. Test your ammonia level every few days. Once your ammonia registers then goes down to zero,you can start adding other livestock slowly.
Let us know what your livestock wish list is.

Mitch

paddyob
12-08-2010, 03:07 AM
Agree about the live rock. The eco rock will not provide you any of the "goodies" that live rock has.

I am not sure on time length to seed, or whether or not one piece is enough.... but you should definitely add some live rock for sure.

Seems like you have a lot of bases covered already. As for a top.... avoid a glass cover. It traps heat and gases. Make a screen cover that is closed around all edges. You can get screen for screen doors or knitting screen form a place like Michaels (As recommended to me in another thread.

wingedfish
12-08-2010, 04:03 AM
K, I'll go against the grain here. For a fowler tank, aragonite sand and dry rock is fine. No need for live rock but a little seed wont hurt. Treat as you would a fresh tank for cycling. either hardy fish or add amonia/fishfood/ect to start because there won't be enough die off of live rock to get it started. monitor parameters. the nitrates aren't as much of a concern with a fowler but do water changes when they (or ammonia, or nitrite ) creep up. eventually the nitrate eaters will establish on the rock and they will fall also.

Go for the glass top if you want. T5's don't put out much and the skimmer gives tons of gas exchange.

my 2 cents

reefwars
12-08-2010, 04:31 AM
K, I'll go against the grain here. For a fowler tank, aragonite sand and dry rock is fine. No need for live rock but a little seed wont hurt. Treat as you would a fresh tank for cycling. either hardy fish or add amonia/fishfood/ect to start because there won't be enough die off of live rock to get it started. monitor parameters. the nitrates aren't as much of a concern with a fowler but do water changes when they (or ammonia, or nitrite ) creep up. eventually the nitrate eaters will establish on the rock and they will fall also.

Go for the glass top if you want. T5's don't put out much and the skimmer gives tons of gas exchange.

my 2 cents


theres a few points here i disagree with the first being the liverock.....you need liverock because the bacteria will eat up amonia as fast as it is produced via your bio-load(your tank inhabitants) your gonna need min 1lb/gallon in a folwr but the more the merrior. you can seed the dry rock you have but it will take a few months to seed fully which is ok if you keep your bio load low so that you can keep up with the amount of amonia that is produced.

t5's are great and many people rather them over halides they can be as strong as you need them to be and can grow any coral just the same as halides. its the maintanance and heating and cost you need to decide on.

dont use the glass top as pat mentioned yur gonna need to have some sort of sir exchange and this is especially so in larger aquariums.mesh works fine:)


nitrates and phosphates are very important in fowlr as they are food for algae and if its there then so will algae.its easiest to get your nitrates low in the beginning and keep them there via water changes and good maintance.use ro water and invest in some reactors.



some key points 1) lots of live rock the more the merrior
2) invest in a controller or at least a timer for your lights
3) invest in a reactor for carbon and one for phosphates
4)water changes once a week or at least every two and this is very important
5)set up a quarantine tank for new fish
6) ask here for every move and you cant go wrong were all here to help:)



cheers on the new tank im looking forward to some pics:):)

searay
12-08-2010, 04:33 AM
Hi The tank came with the plumbing.
The intake pvc is 1 1/2" inside diameter and the return looks like 1"
The mag 18 pump that came with it is 1800gph and 145 watts.
The eheim is 910gph and 80 watts.
Would the eheim be enough for this tank with a good skimmer and a powerhead?
Thanks for the sand info.Might go with the pink caribsea.
Screen for the top is a great idea.I like the open top but hate fish on the floor.
Got advice to start with eco rock and add a reliable source of live rock to seed.Less chance to get unwanted stuff and a little cheaper. Not sure on how this changes the cycle time.
As for fish list this is a rough start.Let me know what you think?

1 or 2 percula clownfish
Royal Gramma
Blue Throat Trigger (might be too big but seen it done on a forum)
Flame Angel
Blue Spotted Puffer
Flame Hawkfish
Dragon Wrasse juvenile (know they change and get 1' but heard there ok in a non reef setup for a while).
Was thinking goby or lawnmower blenny but if I get the wrasse will there be issues.
Something else?
Thanks for the input

reefwars
12-08-2010, 04:37 AM
Hi The tank came with the plumbing.
The intake pvc is 1 1/2" inside diameter and the return looks like 1"
The mag 18 pump that came with it is 1800gph and 145 watts.
The eheim is 910gph and 80 watts.
Would the eheim be enough for this tank with a good skimmer and a powerhead?
Thanks for the sand info.Might go with the pink caribsea.
Screen for the top is a great idea.I like the open top but hate fish on the floor.
Got advice to start with eco rock and add a reliable source of live rock to seed.Less chance to get unwanted stuff and a little cheaper. Not sure on how this changes the cycle time.
As for fish list this is a rough start.Let me know what you think?

1 or 2 percula clownfish
Royal Gramma
Blue Throat Trigger (might be too big but seen it done on a forum)
Flame Angel
Blue Spotted Puffer
Flame Hawkfish
Dragon Wrasse juvenile (know they change and get 1' but heard there ok in a non reef setup for a while).
Was thinking goby or lawnmower blenny but if I get the wrasse will there be issues.
Something else?
Thanks for the input



dragon wrasses are awesome fish but im guessing you kow they doint look the same as adults and they are also nick named rock movers for a reason lol mine could smash off chunks and then pull them over him in the night to sleep.:):)

trigger will probably get to big but would be fine for a bit if you got one as a juvie.

lawnmower blennys are better suited in established aquariums with algae:):)

AquaticFinatic
12-08-2010, 05:08 AM
Why bother with fish that are gonna get to big for you? Seems like a waste to me. What you need to do is take a little info from here and a little from there and go with what makes sense to you. There's a lot of views out there on what to do and what not to! It's all about the common sense in the end. Good luck and hope to see pictures soon.

reefwars
12-08-2010, 05:17 AM
if your worried about flow from the mag18 you can always install a ball avlve and choke it back slightly , if you come to edmonton i would exchange your 18 for a 12 im looking for a 18 for my new set up:):)

searay
12-08-2010, 05:23 AM
Thanks for all the advice.
Planning on setting up a Q tank right away.
Whats the best size/setup for a cheap Q tank.
sponge or hob ect.
LFS has a Dragon Wrasse in their display reef.Been there a while.
Might be on my list for now(cool fish)
Got time to think it over.
Input on my plumbing would be great.

reefwars
12-08-2010, 05:50 AM
Thanks for all the advice.
Planning on setting up a Q tank right away.
Whats the best size/setup for a cheap Q tank.
sponge or hob ect.
LFS has a Dragon Wrasse in their display reef.Been there a while.
Might be on my list for now(cool fish)
Got time to think it over.
Input on my plumbing would be great.



for a qt tank it doesnt have to be huge its just some where to observe and treat if necessary .

in a qt tank you can have liverock but just a small amout as you want to be able to see your fish.my qt is a 30g it has liverock in it and i add some pvc for added shelter. strong lights arent required.

if you plan to use this tank as a hospital tank then your liverock will need to be removed as alot of medications will kill all life in it anyways.


a basic qt tank could be 30g
no sand or any substrate
small amount of liverock
heater/power head
pvc for hiding places
lights havent got to be expensive just something so your fish doesnt hide all the time and scare off every time you approach.
water changes regulary:)


pretty much the basics of what a tank can run off of:)

searay
12-08-2010, 05:52 AM
Hey Daveycoopa
Good point.Dragon wrasse off the list.
What would you do with a 120 gal fowlr or any one else for stocking just to give me some ideas as I have some time before this tank is cycled.
Thanks

xblade
12-08-2010, 06:01 AM
trigger will probably get to big but would be fine for a bit if you got one as a juvie.

:):)

The Blue Throat stay's fairly small..8 -9" max
Nice fish...If you want a trigger, then that's the 1 to go with IMO

reefwars
12-08-2010, 06:01 AM
Thanks for all the advice.
Planning on setting up a Q tank right away.
Whats the best size/setup for a cheap Q tank.
sponge or hob ect.
LFS has a Dragon Wrasse in their display reef.Been there a while.
Might be on my list for now(cool fish)
Got time to think it over.
Input on my plumbing would be great.


wouldnt worry about fish for a while, your cycle is gonna be short(amonia wise) as there isnt much for dead life in the way of rock so the only amonia you will get will be forced from something like rotting food or shrimp.....but as you add fish your gonna have more amonia and not enough life built up to keep up with it. once that happens breathing problems will happen with your fish and most of your inverts will die off quickly. its a bad route to go down as live rock is the main filter in your aquarium. adding dryrock is just a way to increase your rock load and keep your cost down while waiting for it to become live......which is as long as it would take life to populate in its crevaces you should have enough live rock to keep your system going.

the good thing is you have a decent sized aquarium so your tank wont be affected by fish waste too much at first if you keep your bio-load small(fish numbers and size)....the solution to pollution is dilution :):)

reefwars
12-08-2010, 06:06 AM
The Blue Throat stay's fairly small..8 -9" max
Nice fish...If you want a trigger, then that's the 1 to go with IMO



8-9" is avery big fish for a 4' tank, granted it would take along time to get that big but to have any other fish in there would be asking for disease sooner or later.

xblade
12-08-2010, 06:21 AM
I meant for a trigger,it's fairly small. :)

reefwars
12-08-2010, 06:46 AM
I meant for a trigger,it's fairly small. :)

it is indeed i want a niger trigger again so bad but i know how big they get and i dont have the room:):)

rokosd
12-08-2010, 08:45 AM
Deffinately do your research. Every tank is different and will act differently under different strains. When I first setup my 65Gal tank, one piece of liverock came with a fish. VERY SURPRISED TO SEE him when the sand finally settled enough to see him. I paniced and did as much reading as I could to help him stay alive through the cycle. Granted I stayed with most others in this hobby and purchased 50lbs of live rock and 20lbs of base rock(to help with costs). It was a lawnmower blenny that came into the tank as soon as it was setup. I can almost guarantee that reefwars is right. Without algae the lawnmower blenny will perish. Live rock deffinately helped him. I had to special feed him till the live rock started to produce the much NEEDED algae. I also used and stand by this now, a chemical called Stability which I think helped a great deal, but no way to prove this. Stability is introducing the biological filter that reefwars is talking about. I tested everyday, sometimes twice a day and never had an ammonia spike. But once again you need the EXTRAS from live rock to help your tank. I, of all people deffinately love to try new things in this hobby so let me know which way you go and how it turned out. And deffinately do NOT put glass on the top of the tank. I did with mine and I also have a skimmer. I almost lost all of my fish due to this and would recommend against it no matter what the case. It was due to the lack of Oxygen exchange at the surface of the water due to no air can get through glass. And as for plumbing, can't help you there as I do not have a sump on either of my tanks. Good luck.

searay
12-08-2010, 03:25 PM
Thanks again for all the advice.I'm learning alot.
I Understand the live rock cycle.I was planning to add some live rock.I could always buy more live then first planned and not use all of the eco rock.
Gonna go open top for sure.Will add a screen top if I decide to have a fish that is a jumper.
Got time do do more research on the fish list.
If I do decide to get the blenny how long should the tank be established (a year)?
Think the blue throat trigger is going to be a 50/50 out there.
I will hit you guys with another (researched) fish list later.
Gotta get the tank up and cycled first.
The skimmer ect should be here end of the week.
Just gotta figure out the right return pump.
How do you do the quiet stand pipe (return)?
Whats a herbie.Anyone know a good link for diy
I know slow is the key
I will post some pics when I start getting it going.Week and a bit I hope.
Thanks
Rob

ponokareefer
12-08-2010, 05:27 PM
Since you're doing only fish, dwarf angelfish are very colorfull and would work great. They aren't jumpers, and for the most part, aren't aggressive to other fish.
Smaller tangs would also be a very good choice for you. There are some from the Zebramosa family(not the sailfin tang), the Ctenochaetus family or the Acanthurus family.
Blue Throat triggerfish get a maximum of 9 inches in the wild. In your size of tank, they would be fine as they wouldn't likely reach that size. I would start with a smaller one as others have suggested. I did a lot of research before I added mine to an almost identical tank size and he has been very happy.
As for a lawnmower blenny, a year would probably be a sufficient amount of time for the system to develop to handle that fishes needs.

For your rock, the more live rock you add now, the quicker your system will be ready to handle the bioload. If you only add a little live rock, you're just going to have to be more patient and wait longer for your tank to develop.

paddyob
12-08-2010, 05:33 PM
\ When I first setup my 65Gal tank, one piece of liverock came with a fish.


When I worked at AI a few years ago we had a purple fire fish go out with a piece of live rock. It some how got into the old rock tank and when someone got home they had him. Was pretty funny. We let them keep it.

MitchM
12-09-2010, 12:30 AM
...
How do you do the quiet stand pipe (return)?
Whats a herbie.Anyone know a good link for diy
...

Your pipe sizing sounds fine.
Here's a link to a herbie set-up:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=61886&highlight=herbie

You will be able to find pretty much whatever you are looking for by using the search function in the upper hand corner.

Mitch

searay
12-09-2010, 03:25 AM
A dwarf angelfish would be cool.
Got my skimmer in the mail today.
Gonna work on the sump this weekend and buy a eheim 1262 return pump (I think).
Should I add a powerhead also.
If so what size and make should I get?
It's a slow go fo sho

ponokareefer
12-09-2010, 05:18 AM
You should add powerheads, but you won't need a lot of flow as it is fish only. Vortech and Tunze are considered top of the line, but for what you are doing, Koralia's would work just fine and be considerably cheaper. 2 Koralia 1400's should be good for your set up. I used to run 2 Koralia 3's, but have had to add more powerheads to my system. There are a lot of different options out there to consider. The magnet's for Tunze, Vortech and Koralia are all nice though for positioning your powerheads.

searay
12-09-2010, 03:23 PM
Yah I figured I might need a couple powerheads.
I really like your fish list
How big is your bluechin
Does goby pair +1 mean shrimp
Thanks for the advice
Rob

ponokareefer
12-09-2010, 10:36 PM
My bluechin is probably 3 inches now. He is boss of the tank, even though the yellow tang is much bigger. He doesn't fight anyone, but come feeding time, none of the other fish get in his way.

The engineer goby pair +1 means that I have a pair of engineer goby's and then there is just an extra in the tank. I originally had 4, but one dissappeared. I added 4 in hopes of getting a pair, which I now have, but I haven't seen them spawn. Engineer goby's don't match up with shrimp.

Thanks for the complements on the fish list! There will be additions in the future, but I have to wait for them to grow out first.