Home Construction Help

[sphelps]

Anyone have any experience or ideas on what the following would cost. Trying to get a few quotes from contractors but I have no idea what is reasonable or what to expect.

Unfinished basement
Remove two bedroom size windows
Fill in area
Stucco outside area where filled in
Install new window on other side of basement (hopefully use one of the removed windows)
Building permit required

Any ideas on cost and the time it would take to do so would be super helpful. House is outside of town, Wheatland County.

Thanks

[Frankly Canadian]

Probably a few thousand, my best guess.

[toxic111]

Ball park you are looking at anywhere from $2500-$5000 depending on if there is any mechanical or electrical to move, and what the final finished need to be.

[sphelps]

These are the windows that need to be removed. On a side note if anyone is familiar with fire code I'd love some advice on how I could fight this and keep the windows. The problem is the side yard is 5cm too narrow so it doesn't meet fire code, in order to get a variance from the county we will have to remove the windows to prevent a fire from spreading to the next house as easily. I understand this issue but what I don't get is the house has a fire sprinkler system just as you would find in Condo buildings. Now condos and townhomes can be connected because they have these systems so why would 5cm make a difference in my case.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/House/DSC_6463.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/House/DSC_6464.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/House/DSC_6476.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/House/DSC_6477.jpg

[The Codfather]

Ball park you are looking at anywhere from $2500-$5000 depending on if there is any mechanical or electrical to move, and what the final finished need to be.

Realistically, I think if you are contracting out all this work, you can add a 0 after those numbers. Just my opinion, but material alone is going to be more than $5000 to finish that size of basement. I see a rough in for a bathroom, trust me unless you are doing the work yourself, it's a bit more than a few grand. Just my 2 cents.
Bob

[Frankly Canadian]

I got agree with Codfather, thats a pretty pricey endeavorer your embarking on. I would rethink your plans and co-ordinated them with the design of the house.

[spawn]

Talk to your lawyer, if the county approved the D.P. in the first place, & is now trying to say that the windows are against local fire code, it shouldn't be on you to pay to fix it. The house does not look that old, so someone must have seen & approved it???

[spawn]

Calgary & area basement development prices range from $25-40 per Sq. Ft.

[reefwars]

Realistically, I think if you are contracting out all this work, you can add a 0 after those numbers. Just my opinion, but material alone is going to be more than $5000 to finish that size of basement. I see a rough in for a bathroom, trust me unless you are doing the work yourself, it's a bit more than a few grand. Just my 2 cents.
Bob

Would have to agree wth bob materials are going to be over 5000, drywall is around 12$ a sheet and your looking at around 100 sheets possibly more if your doing a full basement. Also you'll have to take in account other things like mud, framing, flooring, and finish work like trim and bathroom things like toilets showers ect.

Honestly you could get it drywalled for about $600
bathroom plumbing will probably be close to 1000$
flooring will be close to $1000 depending on what you use
paint and plaster will run you about 1500$
to replace a window would be close to $200
installing doors will be around $300
installing trim and baseboard would average around $500


I'm sure hrs alot mor I'm just on my phone and don't wan to type alot more plus all of this is just labour materials would cost more than this.

Your best bet is to call around and get free quotes and then make a budget, oversee the trades yourself and pay someone to check their work . I am renovating a full house right now from new framing and windows, drywall/ insulation , painting plastering plus everything in between .... After 3 weeks I'm up o 10000 in labour alone plus about 15000 in materials so is def always more than you think when doing full basements and houses.

Get some quotes from cntractors or trades and post them here with some info like sq/ft and materials your going to use and I could let you know if it's a good price:)

I am a general contractor in Edmonton doing new and old homes, I've seen basemnts that cost over 50000 and ones that were done on a tight rope budget , I've been contracting for 13yrs and I guarantee it will run closer to 15000 for a basic basement with materials and cheap labour:):)

Hope the helps and the prices above are just estimates not actual quotes:)

[Frankly Canadian]

Sorry I didn't read the part about having to do the renovations as per fire code regulations. If it were me I would definitely talk to a lawyer, preferably the one who took care of the land tittle transfer.

[reefwars]

Talk to your lawyer, if the county approved the D.P. in the first place, & is now trying to say that the windows are against local fire code, it shouldn't be on you to pay to fix it. The house does not look that old, so someone must have seen & approved it???


That's no really true, if it was passed before then fine as long as you don't change it.... If you want it replaced they wil ask you to do so according wiu code fo your city at present time:)

[spawn]

Like I said ALL IN average Sq.Ft. Price's $25-40 Per Sq.Ft. $25000-40000 for about 1000 Sq.Ft. 16 years Experience. & Busy.

[reefwars]

Like I said ALL IN average Sq.Ft. Price's $25-40 Per Sq.Ft. $25000-40000 for about 1000 Sq.Ft. 16 years Experience. & Busy.

I can agree to that , there's always ways to make it " cheaper " but if you want it done by people who specialize in these trades it's gonna be pricey... But hopefully done right , keep it simple and get a plan going don't do it flying by the edge of your seat lol that seat gets uncomfortable:)

just for spawn lol I'll put down As well business owner and general contrator for 13yrs with over 20 years in all trades and over 200 happy customers and referrals in Edmonton:)

prices for trades seem to be higher in Calgary , one if my customers us based out of Calgary and I'm constantly fighting to get Calgary prices, not a lot of difference but a bit:)

[toxic111]

Realistically, I think if you are contracting out all this work, you can add a 0 after those numbers. Just my opinion, but material alone is going to be more than $5000 to finish that size of basement. I see a rough in for a bathroom, trust me unless you are doing the work yourself, it's a bit more than a few grand. Just my 2 cents.
Bob

My numbers were based on what the OP had asked for, which was not to finish a basement. For a finished basement I use anywhere from $60 to $125/ft2 budget.

I usually know my budget pricing pretty close, since I am in the industry.

Now for the fire code, that is different. I don't have my code book here, but if I remember correctly if you are closer than 1.2m to a property line you can not have any unprotected openings on a house (windows & doors)

There might be something you can do to keep the windows. Find out if they (the county or rm) would accept a sprinkler protected window. Which would mean having a sprinkler head installed right above the window. We use them in fire rated assemblies to have large openings of glass. There is usually a head on each side of the opening, but in this case it only needs to be protected from one side.

My questions is on the age of the home, usually if it is an existing home a varience would be granted no problem & be grandfathered.

Just for a FYI on me, 15+ years in residential & commercial design & 10+ years in construction.

And with a full basement finish, easliy $10,000 to do, I have about $8k in my basement & I have 2 bedrooms to paint & install floooring yet, plus a bathroom to completly finish.

[spawn]

Cheers to Reefwars, & I think if the rates for Lloydminster are correct & from what I here they're not far off, & somewhat Toxic. I might consider moving there. However I've been in Cowtown since before the boom, through it, and successfully after, & without crazy price fluctuations. The market correction was the best thing that could have happened for honest quality contractor's & trades, to help weed out gougers. I'm happy to stay here, work here, provide people & customers with fair pricing. For materials only, I'm @ $22 Sq.Ft. with a sauna, 2 head shower +2 body sprays, 10mm glass door,tile, a rec room with media, + 1 bedroom. I would put my labor @ $25.FYI.

[reefwars]

These are the windows that need to be removed. On a side note if anyone is familiar with fire code I'd love some advice on how I could fight this and keep the windows. The problem is the side yard is 5cm too narrow so it doesn't meet fire code, in order to get a variance from the county we will have to remove the windows to prevent a fire from spreading to the next house as easily. I understand this issue but what I don't get is the house has a fire sprinkler system just as you would find in Condo buildings. Now condos and townhomes can be connected because they have these systems so why would 5cm make a difference in my case.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/House/DSC_6463.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/House/DSC_6464.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/House/DSC_6476.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/House/DSC_6477.jpg



i gotta say thats a nice lonnnnnnnngggg tank wall ya got there in the second pictire:):)

[reefwars]

Cheers to Reefwars, & I think if the rates for Lloydminster are correct & from what I here they're not far off, & somewhat Toxic. I might consider moving there. However I've been in Cowtown since before the boom, through it, and successfully after, & without crazy price fluctuations. The market correction was the best thing that could have happened for honest quality contractor's & trades, to help weed out gougers. I'm happy to stay here, work here, provide people & customers with fair pricing. For materials only, I'm @ $22 Sq.Ft. with a sauna, 2 head shower +2 body sprays, 10mm glass door,tile, a rec room with media, + 1 bedroom. I would put my labor @ $25.FYI.




i lived in lloyd maybe 4 yrs ago i lived there for a year, i was getting mostly basement reno's as i guess they had some kind of flood a while before and alot of people were covered and finally got approved for reno's. it was paying good money and there seemed to be lots of work but i couldnt live there much longer lol not really big enough for me i like the city:):)

[The Codfather]

My numbers were based on what the OP had asked for, which was not to finish a basement. For a finished basement I use anywhere from $60 to $125/ft2 budget.

I usually know my budget pricing pretty close, since I am in the industry.

Just for a FYI on me, 15+ years in residential & commercial design & 10+ years in construction.

And with a full basement finish, easliy $10,000 to do, I have about $8k in my basement & I have 2 bedrooms to paint & install floooring yet, plus a bathroom to completly finish.


True enough, and I totally agree with your numbers(I am not trying to start anything or say you are wrong) if the homeowner is doing the work. However, if you take into account the wages to pay the tradesmen to come in and do the work, I can say you could quite easily double your cost. This is of course if you are hiring certified ticketed tradesmen.

[DiverDude]

That house looks pretty new so I'd be asking some questions about who goofed on the surveying.

Regardless, I'd look into the possibility of an easement. There has to be a limit butfor the sake of 5cm, it seems extreme.

When my neighbor sold his house, the city forced him to re-survey it and it was determined that his fence wasn't quite straight and one end was something like 5 inches onto my property. Now I know this isn't a FIRE issue, but I granted him and easement for the fence and the problem was solved. Had I not done that though, he would have had to either pay me to give in or tear down the fence.

Did the house design show bedrooms in the basement ? A window is required for egress in basement bedrooms so you'd have even more ammo against the builder because you wouldn't be able to move the window because you'd need it for the bedroom.

Bottom line is that the window thing should be someone else's problem; not yours.

[The Codfather]

That house looks pretty new so I'd be asking some questions about who goofed on the surveying.

Did the house design show bedrooms in the basement ? A window is required for egress in basement bedrooms so you'd have even more ammo against the builder because you wouldn't be able to move the window because you'd need it for the bedroom.

Bottom line is that the window thing should be someone else's problem; not yours.


My thoughts exactly.

[howdy20012002]

i don't know how you should be responsible for moving the windows.
whoever built it had to pass code.
so I don't know how it is an issue now.
if it is a new house, the builder should definitely be responsible.
and if it has been around for a few years, the city passed the windows initially.. not sure how it can be a problem now.
as for doing the work yourself, take it from someone who just built his own house, don't try it unless you know what you are doing. in the long run it just ain't worth the hassle and will definitely hurt your bottom line when selling if not done right.
Neal

[Borderjumper]

The house next to you has to remove their windows too right? To protect YOU in the event of a fire??:fadein:

[StirCrazy]

.

Unfinished basement
Remove two bedroom size windows
Fill in area
Stucco outside area where filled in
Install new window on other side of basement (hopefully use one of the removed windows)
Building permit required

Thanks

first I would see if this is something that the builder shopuld be responcible for fixing, if not then check with your lawyer about your title insurance and so on.

what is to close the actualy house or the window well because it is atached to the house. if it is the window well then remove it and cut 5cm off each end reinstall about 3 hours work no cost.

if it is the house then title insurance should cover it as the survay doesnt jive with the actual layout. My guestimate would be 2500 to 5K if you hire it out. looking at it I would be tempted to remove the windows and fill it up myself with cinderblocks and morter. as for putting the new window in... how is alberta with home owners permits? I get permits and do my own work which still has to be inspected, I just read up on what I have to do and do it right the first time. I have yet to fail an inspection out of 5 permits. (two electrical, 2 plumbing and one structural)

now of course you have to decide if you are capable of doing the work and or if you want to or even have the time. for instance, I will do small mud repairs of drywall but I will hire out mudding of a room as the cost is worth the lack of mess and fustration to me :mrgreen:

a good idea would be to get a few contractors in.. ask them how they are going to fill the holes, ask if they have to install a lintel in the new window hole they cut. you shouldn't need a permit to remove and fill in the two windows there but ya you should need one for a new window but ask them and see what they say. find out what they would charge just to install a window. if you knwo anyone who does this kind of work find out whats involved, go to the mike holmes forum and ask about it in the basement forum (that forum is a welth of info, and a lot of strait up contractors and people in the know would problably give you more info that you could hope to get here. they all push hiring a pro, but thats cuz half them on there are contractors of some sort, but they have helped me with some stuff I had a hard time finding any info on.

I don't know where everyone is getting there ideas of finnishing the basement but I don't see that in your question. if you do want to completly finnish the basement then some people are dreaming of how cheap they think it can be done. I have a 1000sq^ft basment that I am renovating and I am over 35K with only 1/2 of it done. I have finnished a bedroom and a family room with a wet bar so far. I still have the bathroom, laundry room and back entry to do yet so I am looking at another 10 to 15K and thats with me doing all the work myself. you can double what I have spent and have yet to spend by getting some one else to do it.

a basic 1000 sq ft basment finnish with one bathroom should be in the range of 25 to 35K, if you have champain tastes then your looking upwards of 50K

Steve

[StirCrazy]

These are the windows that need to be removed. On a side note if anyone is familiar with fire code I'd love some advice on how I could fight this and keep the windows. The problem is the side yard is 5cm too narrow so it doesn't meet fire code, in order to get a variance from the county we will have to remove the windows to prevent a fire from spreading to the next house as easily. I understand this issue but what I don't get is the house has a fire sprinkler system just as you would find in Condo buildings. Now condos and townhomes can be connected because they have these systems so why would 5cm make a difference in my case.




what happens if you don't get the varance?

Condows are different rules.. they need a 1hr fire rating between them and no openings, so a double layer of 5/8 drywall gives you the 5 hour fire rating. the problem with windows is that when they get hot they can blow out and the flames can leap that way.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

The house next to you has to remove their windows too right? To protect YOU in the event of a fire??:fadein:

nope the other people are probably the proper distance from the property line. the measurment isn't between houses but from the property line to the house.

Steve

[Borderjumper]

nope the other people are probably the proper distance from the property line. the measurment isn't between houses but from the property line to the house.

Steve
Omg that's crazy. So two houses side by side, each have basement windows facing each other, but only one house is deem a danger in case of a fire?

[reefwars]

first I would see if this is something that the builder shopuld be responcible for fixing, if not then check with your lawyer about your title insurance and so on.

what is to close the actualy house or the window well because it is atached to the house. if it is the window well then remove it and cut 5cm off each end reinstall about 3 hours work no cost.

if it is the house then title insurance should cover it as the survay doesnt jive with the actual layout. My guestimate would be 2500 to 5K if you hire it out. looking at it I would be tempted to remove the windows and fill it up myself with cinderblocks and morter. as for putting the new window in... how is alberta with home owners permits? I get permits and do my own work which still has to be inspected, I just read up on what I have to do and do it right the first time. I have yet to fail an inspection out of 5 permits. (two electrical, 2 plumbing and one structural)

now of course you have to decide if you are capable of doing the work and or if you want to or even have the time. for instance, I will do small mud repairs of drywall but I will hire out mudding of a room as the cost is worth the lack of mess and fustration to me :mrgreen:

a good idea would be to get a few contractors in.. ask them how they are going to fill the holes, ask if they have to install a lintel in the new window hole they cut. you shouldn't need a permit to remove and fill in the two windows there but ya you should need one for a new window but ask them and see what they say. find out what they would charge just to install a window. if you knwo anyone who does this kind of work find out whats involved, go to the mike holmes forum and ask about it in the basement forum (that forum is a welth of info, and a lot of strait up contractors and people in the know would problably give you more info that you could hope to get here. they all push hiring a pro, but thats cuz half them on there are contractors of some sort, but they have helped me with some stuff I had a hard time finding any info on.

I don't know where everyone is getting there ideas of finnishing the basement but I don't see that in your question. if you do want to completly finnish the basement then some people are dreaming of how cheap they think it can be done. I have a 1000sq^ft basment that I am renovating and I am over 35K with only 1/2 of it done. I have finnished a bedroom and a family room with a wet bar so far. I still have the bathroom, laundry room and back entry to do yet so I am looking at another 10 to 15K and thats with me doing all the work myself. you can double what I have spent and have yet to spend by getting some one else to do it.

a basic 1000 sq ft basment finnish with one bathroom should be in the range of 25 to 35K, if you have champain tastes then your looking upwards of 50K

Steve




not sure if covering the window is an option unless you plan to leave the basement as is, if you plan to have a bedroom im pretty sure you need to have an out in case of fire outside the bedroom door.

they wouldnt take the measurement from the window well they would take it from the structure.

most have said between 25000-50000

and its assumed its going to be a finished basement as he wants bedrooms and such.

doing the work yourself is not a good idea unless you have 10hrs a day to do so or dont mind reno's happening for 5 mths, hire the work out.... alot of times unless your qualified to do so it will and it will take you three times as long. i can mud a wall i guarantee alot faster than someone whos being very careful and arent familiar with the products, i go in i know right what to do i know the fastest way of doing it and i make sure it gets done so as i make money and the job is done fast with a happy customer.

you wouldnt belive how many half started jobs i go in to do, just last week i went in to a failed insulation inspection on a house, this guy had hired some labor at $15/hr and after a couple days they finished the job.....it didnt pass inspection for about 50 reasons and so iu got called in to repair..... now normally i can insulate a small house by lunch time with a few of my guys but it took the better part of a day to re-do their work and get it up to par....passed inspection no prob:):)

later the guy says to me i didnt think there was much to it really so i just hired some fellas who done it before.....

my point is alot of the work isnt brain surgery or difficult sometimes it takes a strong back but more so it takes knowlege and experience and knowing what inspectors and customers are expecting.like spawn i too am glad the market stabilized as alot of those high bidders and inexperienced people have been weeded out and there were alot of them over the past years....these same people dropped their prices drastically in an effort to find work when it hit and alot of them couldnt keep up with the demand of finding contracts and moved on:):) i have never been jobless or unemployed for over 10yrs and i have some great employees who count on me for their financial life and regular work schedule. basically like anything you get what you pay for , you could hire out a couple young fellas for 15$/hr and watch over them and when they mess up you can say no worries we will get it fixed or you can hire the work out to people who have workers and take all the responsibility.

your house is very nice and an investment for years to come ...its your home so why take the risk for saving a few bucks or possibly paying more in the long run.........

not a big mike holmes fan but he does say one thing i like......"do it right the first time " its the cheapest way and youll end up[ with professional quality work :):)



************edit********* would seem the poster doesnt mention finishing a basement only removing the windows and replacing the one on the other side of the basement and then stucco the filled in opening to match.:):) sorry:)

[darb]

Don't get quotes, get a lawyer.

That place smells brand new from here. It was the developer/prime contractor that screwed up and located it too close to the property line.

Not only is there the cost of removing two windows and reinstalling one, but the impact that not having the two windows will do for useability of the space and the future resale value.

[sphelps]

Ok thanks for all the input so far. To clarify I'm only looking for an idea on the cost for closing the windows and installing a new one. Developing the basement would be another project down the road.

Also I should explain that I don't currently own this house, we are considering buying it and our offer has been accepted but it's conditional based on the variance, among other things. The house is a foreclosure as a result of the builders going under. The house is not complete but the potential investment is huge. The house is sold as is, once the sale is closed all responsibleness to get the house up to code will be the buyers. There are no builders to go after.

The house was build slightly off center so the side yard on the one side is too small. It's 1.15m at one point and the limit is 1.2m. However there is 10 feet between the houses.

We will be contacting the banks (sellers) lawyer on Monday to ask for assistance with dealing with the county of Wheatland. We will try this approach first before investing in our own lawyer which might cost us money with no result.

[sphelps]

Anyone know if it's possible to buy 5cms off your neighbors lot? If this is possible it would sure solve all my problems right now :lol:

[howdy20012002]

can you just set your windows back in the window well 5 more cms?
buying a couple of smaller winows would be way cheaper.

[sphelps]

can you just set your windows back in the window well 5 more cms?
buying a couple of smaller winows would be way cheaper.
Nope, the problem really doesn't have anything to do with the windows, the actual house or foundation is 5cm too close to the properly line. The variance will allow the house to pass fire code if the windows are removed. The idea is that fire can spread to the house next door easier if windows are present. Removing the windows will delay the spread of a fire to the next house and make up for the 5cm screw up.
Smaller windows are also not an option, although smaller windows will result in lower amount of fire protrusion it still isn't enough to satisfy the variance. In addition the windows are already the minimum size required for bedrooms so making them smaller is the same as removing them for us since the idea is to have legal bedrooms.

Really it's all a bunch of BS in my mind, the fact is there is still over 3 meters between the two houses and the limit is 2.4 meters so realistically it's fine, however since it's based on the properly line and not the combined distance we're in trouble. Ideally it would be nice if we could just revise the two lots and have them resurveyed so my lot gains 5cm and the neighbors losses 5cm. The cost of this would be well worth while if it resulted in the windows being legal.

[howdy20012002]

as far as I am concerned
the city inspectors screwed the pooch on this.
during the foundation inspection, they should have picked up on the fact that the house was in the wrong place.
interesting...i would definitely talk to a lawyer

[StirCrazy]

Ideally it would be nice if we could just revise the two lots and have them resurveyed so my lot gains 5cm and the neighbors losses 5cm. The cost of this would be well worth while if it resulted in the windows being legal.

but would that make the other house to close to the property line?

Steve

[sphelps]

but would that make the other house to close to the property line?

Steve

No the other house has lots of extra space. Currently the other house is 1.85m where my house is 1.15m. So if possible one could reduce the other house to 1.80m and increase mine to 1.2m. This way both houses would be in spec since the limit is 1.2m and I can't see how someone would miss 5cm from their side yard, it's not even noticeable.

[sphelps]

as far as I am concerned
the city inspectors screwed the pooch on this.
during the foundation inspection, they should have picked up on the fact that the house was in the wrong place.
interesting...i would definitely talk to a lawyer

They should have but it doesn't appear that any blame can be put on anyone else. It's possible the foundation shifted 5cm in their minds. If anyone could be held responsible it would be the builders but they are no longer in business and no longer responsible for the house.

[sphelps]

Some possible good news is that if the windows do have to be removed legal bedrooms in those locations may still be possible. According to the alberta building code 9.7.1.2 (1) Windows are not required for bedrooms if:

a)Room has electrical lighting
b)Proper ventilation
c)Has a means of egress (exit like an outside door) or has automatic sprinklers

Since the rooms will already have sprinkler systems meeting the other requirements will be easy.

[jorjef]

Just my fears, but if this was to be a childs room down the road I don't think I could sleep easy. Smoke inhalation kills many before flames are ever an issue. Quick escape via a window would be a must for me.

[sphelps]

Just my fears, but if this was to be a childs room down the road I don't think I could sleep easy. Smoke inhalation kills many before flames are ever an issue. Quick escape via a window would be a must for me.
Yeap very true but the house does have a finished bedroom already upstairs which could be used for smaller children. Also most of us didn't grow up with these kinds of safety regulations. I know the type of houses I grew up in had security bars that couldn't be removed so there was no way you could get out the window. And most older homes have small windows in the basement which are still used as bedroom windows despite being "illegal". Also I currently live on the top floor of a condo building, you could fit out the windows but they are the furthest thing from a safe exit, better to take you chances with the fire.

When it comes down to it with all the safety equipment these days a window is really a last resort. Smoke detectors should provide adequate time to escape out of a room to an exit less than 10 feet away (walkout basement) and worst case stay low until the sprinklers activate which they would before the house would fill with smoke to the point it couldn't be avoided.

I'm not the type of person who would be the "overly cautions" type of parent. I mean really some of the stuff considered unsafe is some what laughable these days.

[toxic111]

I am working at home today, so I can't check my code regarding the sprinklers in single family homes & egress. I do use that clause to have no opening windows in apartment buildings.

An option may be to remove the windows & install glass block to bring in natural light, but still meet the protected opening clause in the code.

Another option I did mention in a previous post is to use a sprinkler protected window, that you would have to check with the sprinkler designer.

On another note it is possible to buy 5cm of land from your neighbor, it does happen, more times than not. It would be a process & expensive as well, plus talking your neighbor into losing 5cm (2in) of land, plus survey costs, as well as all the legal costs with the city.

There may be another couple options as well. Do you know who the permit agency was that provided the building permit? was it the county itself? or a seperate permit agency? Some permit agencys are good to deal with, others, well we won't talk about those.

[jorjef]

All good points, and you hit the nail directly on the head.. the world has become an uber safety nightmare. I had a chuckle when you mentioned the older house basement windows, that unless you are "Elasto" man no one would ever fit through. If your wife is anything like mine best to get her "stamp" of approval as a future bedroom for Jr. lol

[sphelps]

I am working at home today, so I can't check my code regarding the sprinklers in single family homes & egress. I do use that clause to have no opening windows in apartment buildings.

An option may be to remove the windows & install glass block to bring in natural light, but still meet the protected opening clause in the code.

Another option I did mention in a previous post is to use a sprinkler protected window, that you would have to check with the sprinkler designer.

On another note it is possible to buy 5cm of land from your neighbor, it does happen, more times than not. It would be a process & expensive as well, plus talking your neighbor into losing 5cm (2in) of land, plus survey costs, as well as all the legal costs with the city.

There may be another couple options as well. Do you know who the permit agency was that provided the building permit? was it the county itself? or a seperate permit agency? Some permit agencys are good to deal with, others, well we won't talk about those.

How does a sprinkler protected window work? The sprinkler system does need to be redone so adding such an option is definitely a possibility.

Buying the extra land would be ideal I think. Even with the added costs it probably wouldn't cost much more than removing the windows and possibly installing new ones. The house next door is actually still owned by Douglas Homes which my Realtor just happens to work for so it might be pretty easy to get permission.

The permit agency is permit pro. What other options would I have? Permit Pro didn't mention anything other than removing the windows.

[sphelps]

All good points, and you hit the nail directly on the head.. the world has become an uber safety nightmare. I had a chuckle when you mentioned the older house basement windows, that unless you are "Elasto" man no one would ever fit through. If your wife is anything like mine best to get her "stamp" of approval as a future bedroom for Jr. lol
Oh yeah I can't do anything without that stamp :lol:

[toxic111]

This link would give you an idea of how the sprinklered protected glazing works. http://www.municipalaffairs.gov.ab.ca/documents/ss/STANDATA/building/bcr/06BCV010.pdf

You may want to talk to Permit Pro to see if that would be accepted as an option, it might be as simple as adding 1 or 2 heads per window. If there is enough water pressure etc.

We usually like dealing with Superior when can, though permit pro is another we work with frequently. But since it is permit pro, there are no options that way. Getting talking with permit pro about other options may be the best way.

Shoot me a pm tomorrow when I am at the office to remind me to look in the code to see if I can find some things out. Is it a walk-out basement as well?? if it is that may help with having bedrooms with no windows.

[sphelps]

This link would give you an idea of how the sprinklered protected glazing works. http://www.municipalaffairs.gov.ab.ca/documents/ss/STANDATA/building/bcr/06BCV010.pdf

You may want to talk to Permit Pro to see if that would be accepted as an option, it might be as simple as adding 1 or 2 heads per window. If there is enough water pressure etc.

We usually like dealing with Superior when can, though permit pro is another we work with frequently. But since it is permit pro, there are no options that way. Getting talking with permit pro about other options may be the best way.

Shoot me a pm tomorrow when I am at the office to remind me to look in the code to see if I can find some things out. Is it a walk-out basement as well?? if it is that may help with having bedrooms with no windows.
Yes it is a walkout.
Thanks for the info I will contact permit pro and ask for other options.

[toxic111]

Hope some of my info will help you out. Its always hard when somebody screws up.

[darb]

No the other house has lots of extra space. Currently the other house is 1.85m where my house is 1.15m. So if possible one could reduce the other house to 1.80m and increase mine to 1.2m. This way both houses would be in spec since the limit is 1.2m and I can't see how someone would miss 5cm from their side yard, it's not even noticeable.

That would work well in your favour for a variance application. It may be your best bet to invest in a consultant (lawyer?) to put together a solid application since the combined total space between structures exceeds the minimum requirements and thus there is no increased risk due the the 5 cm encroachment by your house. Logically .....

[sphelps]

That would work well in your favour for a variance application. It may be your best bet to invest in a consultant (lawyer?) to put together a solid application since the combined total space between structures exceeds the minimum requirements and thus there is no increased risk due the the 5 cm encroachment by your house. Logically .....
Yes it would work well but I just spoke to my Realtor who informed me this isn't an option and hasn't heard of anyone doing this in the 20 years he's been in the business. However my trust in this particular Realtor is fading more everyday that goes by. I think I'll discuss this with my lawyer as apparently the banks (seller) lawyer has also stated that they have already perused every possible option available and the only thing to do is wait for the verdict from Wheatland which as far as I can tell will be a conditional variance based on removing the windows completely and possibly reinstalling special grade drywall on the entire right side of the house.

[toxic111]

The realtor don't know what they are talking about, it does happen, maybe not there, but it should be able to be done.

Adding one layer of 5/8" type 'x' Gypsum is not a big deal, in fact you might have to only use 1/2' Type 'C'.

Though I would keep persuing with buying the land to start with.

You would think the bank, realtors, county would be doing anything they can to get the house sold, esp with the problems it has.

[sphelps]

Yeah I'm going to look into it more.

While adding another layer of Gypsum doesn't sound like much it's just one more thing we would have to add to a growing list. The upstairs drywall is complete and painted so going backwards again isn't ideal. The living room also has a gas fireplace on that wall which is all built in with drywall so going around that area alone will be significant.

The proposed conditions from Wheatland for the variance are exactly as follows:

A new building permit required to complete house and allow for occupancy.
C Schedules will be required from the professional engineer overseeing the Fire Sprinkler System.
The basement windows on the right side when facing the front of the house removed and covered over with stucco and/or parging.
Within the dwelling unit and basement area, the right side is to have installed from the underside of the floor sheathing to a minimum of 12 inch exterior grade.

So yeah buying the extra 5cm of land would be way easier.

[toxic111]

buying the land will be much easier, that is for sure.

[sphelps]

buying the land will be much easier, that is for sure.
Is a lawyer the best person to discuss this option with or should be be with the county?

[toxic111]

in this case I think I would be talking to the builder of the other house and see if they are intrested on working something out with you. If they are willing, then it is time to get the lawyers involved.

[StirCrazy]

The house next door is actually still owned by Douglas Homes which my Realtor just happens to work for so it might be pretty easy to get permission.



If both properties are still owned by the developer being sold by douglas then ask them to resurvay the ajoining property line 3" over as the house is not sellable as is.

if they are still in that phase the 300.00 buck survay cost is probably no problem for the developer/agents to adsorb.

Steve

[sphelps]

Actually after getting more information it turns out it's the roof which extends out too far, the distance between the actual foundations isn't a problem. According to the actual listing agent many houses in the community had the same problem but eventually they were passed without the need for modifications. He assured me that it will work out to my favor, just takes time.

I'm a little frustrated with all the misinformation and different stories so for now I'm just going to sit back and let them figure it out. I got two realtors and a lawyer working on it so if they want to get paid they have to make it work so I'm leaving it up to them. If it works out great, if not oh well.

[toxic111]

I would ask for a copy of the real property report and review it yourself. if the roof is a little too far it should not effect the windows in any way.

I did some code looking today and it the wall was less than that 1.2m no windows are allowed at all. So you would have to the extra land or a protected opening.

[sphelps]

Yeah I wish I could get a copy of the "real" report but it seems unreachable since I don't actually own the house. All I've managed to get is a few different stories and some copies of a few email correspondents between Permit Pro and Wheatland. I have a copy of the non-approved RPR but it doesn't actually state what the problem is, the dimensions on the RPR are listed as 1.19m and 1.15m but it's not clear if these dimensions are from the foundation or roof. If the problem is the roof I don't understand why removing the windows is the recommended solution.

[StirCrazy]

Yeah I wish I could get a copy of the "real" report but it seems unreachable since I don't actually own the house. All I've managed to get is a few different stories and some copies of a few email correspondents between Permit Pro and Wheatland. I have a copy of the non-approved RPR but it doesn't actually state what the problem is, the dimensions on the RPR are listed as 1.19m and 1.15m but it's not clear if these dimensions are from the foundation or roof. If the problem is the roof I don't understand why removing the windows is the recommended solution.

if the seller knows of a problem they have to provide full disclosure of that problem by law. so I would ask your realitor for a copy of the report under the premis of disclosure. if they won't provide one tell them your walking as what else is wrong that there hiding.

Steve

[sphelps]

if the seller knows of a problem they have to provide full disclosure of that problem by law. so I would ask your realitor for a copy of the report under the premis of disclosure. if they won't provide one tell them your walking as what else is wrong that there hiding.

Steve
I don't believe they are hiding anything, I just don't think they really know the exactly what the problem is. It's one of the issues with dealing with a foreclosure, the builders would be more up to speed but they can't be reached and don't really exist anymore.

[michika]

I'd be asking for it for the sake of principle.

When our neighbours bought their home they were encroaching on our property (their shed, fence, deck, hot tub) and we went through the lawyer circus as they wanted us to sign an encroachment agreeement AND sell them the strip of land they're stuff is on. Long story short their lawyer was a douche and we said no more, refused to sign anything, and said we want their stuff off of our property. The reason we didn't sell to them the 5" strip that our neighbours needed was because they sent their cranky lawyer over first rather then coming to talk to us directly. Those same neighbours are trying to sell their house right now with little success because of this issue.

Save all that stuff you've gotten so far because this may sort itself out now, but when you go to sell it may pop back up.

[sphelps]

So I spoke with the owner of the property next door and he's willing to make a deal for 3" of dirt. Not sure what he wants for it yet but I'm sure it won't be cheap.

I also have to resurvey both properties to make sure a boundary adjustment will work before we do anything more. Then I need to evolve the county which will also apparently involve fees. Next get everything in writing and involve a lawyer $$. Then resurvey both properties again with the new adjustments and finally have the new surveys approved by the county.

This isn't going to be much cheaper than the alternative but the end result will be way better. I just hope it all works out, the offer expires on the 14th and another buyer is waiting on the side lines so hopefully I can get most of this organized before then so I'm positive it'll work out.

[michika]

This sounds like the best option for you though. I hope your new neighbour will let it go for a reasonable price.

[sphelps]

This sounds like the best option for you though. I hope your new neighbor will let it go for a reasonable price.
Yeah I calculated the price for sq foot based on the lot price and it comes to around $700 for what I need. Realistically he wouldn't notice a difference as it's only 3" and I'd even offer to cover the cost of installing a fence (which has to be a 3' chain link due to community regulations) and position slightly more on my side so it would really be undetectable. I'd also offer him $1000 rather than the $700 just to make it more worth while for him. However he's the owner of Douglas Homes Builders and I've been told by my realtor (works for him) he can be difficult to deal with and will likely want a substantial amount for the land just cause he knows the situation I'm in.

[sphelps]

Yeah so the guy wants $10,000 for 3" from his 7 foot side yard. Some people are just dinks.

[Parker]

If things do work out in your favor I don't envy you having to live beside that guy! The neightbor behind me is a dick, so I know what it can be like.

[sphelps]

If things do work out in your favor I don't envy you having to live beside that guy! The neightbor behind me is a dick, so I know what it can be like.

Yeah I agree but he's not a permanent resident. The guy owns the building company that built the house, the house is done but hasn't been listed for sale yet. He's staying in the house until his new house is done in Chestermere which as far as I know is still several months away. So if I did move in at least I know he won't be around for long, unfortunately I won't be able to wait on the issue so I'm stuck either removing windows and reinforcing walls or paying $10K.

I think I'm going to call the owner of the actual community, from what I've heard the guy is awesome to deal with and is trying to promote a friendly and social environment. I don't think he'll be too thrilled one of his builders is trying to screw one of his potential new residents.

[Coleus]

try to low ball him, says 500 and see what he reacts. I think he just throws that number out to test the water.

[sphelps]

try to low ball him, says 500 and see what he reacts. I think he just throws that number out to test the water.

I already offered him $1000 he said he won't do it for less than $10K, like I said he knows the situation, he's just trying to screw us.

[DiverDude]

What a douche. When my neighbor had his fence on my property I granted him the easement and didn't charge him a dime. I felt bad the city forced him to pay to resurvey it in the first place.

Some people...:evil: