Why Wild?

[Oceanic]

Was just perusing the multiple vendors out there and happened upon a vendor that lists "Wild Indo Corals" on their website as arriving sometime in the next couple of moths, why on earth would anyone these days opt to import wild colonies? Does anyone on Canreef buy wild colonies considering they rarely retain their colors and obviously the collection destroys and uproots the natural Coral Reefs? I understand certain species are hard to culture but there are very few and most often they are not the types that are most desirable.

Being that I have seen the list of options in which to order Corals, it annoys me when there are so many options for Aquacultured or at the very least Maricultured Corals to buy. Just looking for opinions...

[burrows14]

I have to agree with you Ian. I personally will not buy wild coral first hand. Everything in my tank is either aquacultured or a frag from a local reefer. I also agree with you that aquacultured coral have much better colours and do not seem to waste away like a wild coral would. I know it sounds hypocritical but I dont like the idea of scorching wild reefs so we can enjoy them in our living rooms. I feel the same about live rock thats why for my tank I used all eco dry rock and seeded it with a few pieces of LR from a friend. Hopefully in the next decade our hobby will have major advancements in fish breeding so we could sustain our hobby and leave the oceans alone:) Sorry for a bit of a rant but I always find myself wondering why people buy wlld lol

[Zoaelite]

Lets not go stepping on any specific vendors toes here as I'm really sick of all the fighting and we have to realize this board only exists because of them.

That being said I'm in 100% agreement with both of you, a major step towards aquaculture needs to occur in this hobby. I think the world is to high on the idea of capitalism to realize that you can't extort the environment forever.

Very sad to see Oceanic corals not being a sponsor here for this exact reason.

[OceanAquatics]

Ian

I assume you are referring to Ocean Aquatics.

Just confirm and I can continue my response.

LMK


Wendell

[burrows14]

Lets not go stepping on any specific vendors toes here as I'm really sick of all the fighting and we have to realize this board only exists because of them.

That being said I'm in 100% agreement with both of you, a major step towards aquaculture needs to occur in this hobby. I think the world is to high on the idea of capitalism to realize that you can't extort the environment forever.

Very sad to see Oceanic corals not being a sponsor here for this exact reason.

I agree with you about this too. I was not talking about vendors I was more aiming at us as hobbyist's.

[lastlight]

I swear the politics between so many vendors and ex-vendors drives me nuts. Make's it harder to enjoy these forums in my opinion. I run into it in the LFS as well. I love this hobby but sometimes it's a bit much.

[daniella3d]

Maybe they are cheaper than aquacultured?

why on earth would any vendor these days opt to import wild colonies?

[freezetyle]

I swear the politics between so many vendors and ex-vendors drives me nuts. Make's it harder to enjoy these forums in my opinion. I run into it in the LFS as well. I love this hobby but sometimes it's a bit much.

agreed.

Aquaculture is one of the only ways this hobby will remain sustainable, but all of those mother colonies had to come form somewhere. who knows maybe those collectors in Indonesia have farmed/gardened those corals.

[paddyob]

I swear the politics between so many vendors and ex-vendors drives me nuts. Make's it harder to enjoy these forums in my opinion. I run into it in the LFS as well. I love this hobby but sometimes it's a bit much.

+1. It is better to sell your strengths than negative value sell your competition. If you don't like something your competitor is doing... then improve your own practices and let the consumer decide.

As for vendor on vendor.... I agree. There is too much fighting between vendors (and Ex-vendors) and it really shows lack of professionalism.


Stop throwing mud. Please.

[lorenz0]

Ian I totally agree when it comes to wild coral. IMO maybe 1 or 2 frags off a wild coral will actually survive. I Sit at a 3/5 survival ratio in my tank on wild frags.

In my tank, my most successful corals have been from frags. You can actually see this and I point it out all the time when people ask where my coral comes from. Sure I do like some of the wild stuff, But it grows so slow even the maricultured colonies.

[Delphinus]

I'll take a stab at playing devil's advocate. For me wild-collected wouldn't be an option because of the risks inherent with tagalong pests and that there will be wild variability between colours of how it comes in and what it ends up being .. but to someone who is better positioned to properly quarantine and treat if need be outside of the main collection, that variability could be part of the fun and something unusual can come out. Further, extending the genetic diversity of captive collections is probably not too bad of an idea because if everything were clones of one another, they could all be susceptible to the same stressors. As long the harvesting was done is a sustainable manner. I'm not sure I see a huge difference between wild-collected corals and wild-caught fish. Both can be abused equally the same, yet both can be managed carefully and can be a vehicle of economic stimulus to an area that might not otherwise have much to work with. Yes of course, the argument could be made that these areas could likely do better by going into aquaculture activities instead, but who's to say that this isn't in progress and this collection isn't just an early step in that process? Or whose to say that these aren't "bycatch" of an activity to repopulate one area of a reef which may be damaged and by releasing a percentage of small colonies to be relocated to the general hobbyist market that this isn't how that process is funded? There's a lot to be read behind the word "wild" and as an end consumer I have no idea what the backstory is. Personally I think I will be choosing aquacultured and ">F2 generational" frags from now on anyhow, just owing to that I prefer less unpredictability (where possible) in my tanks these days, but I don't think I object to wild-collected being available - as long that it be done in as benign and sustainable as possible manner.

[Oceanic]

This post was ultimately about the consumer and not aimed at any "vendor(s)" directly. The consumer is who drives the market, and I am guilty of buying wild corals when I first started just like anyone else; however, knowing what I know now I just simply think people should make better decisions when buying anything that comes directly from the wild...

Certain species will almost always be from the wild like most euphyllia type soft corals etc etc. It is the reef building SPS that I am talking about...

Aquaculture whether by the basement enthusiast or business is the future of this hobby, plain and simple.

[Delphinus]

Aquaculture whether by the basement enthusiast or business is the future of this hobby, plain and simple.

Well said!

[howdy20012002]

i personally would love to see aquaculture in every aspect of this hobby.
however, until that day, where do you think it is going to come from if not the ocean??
there is certainly not enough aquacultured stuff out there to sustain this industry as of yet.
consumer's individual choice and requests for aquacultured stuff and the willingness to pay extra for said stuff will dictate how quickly the aquacultured aspects of this hobby develop.
I would like to say none of us can preach on the holier than thou aspect....the nature of this business really doesn't give us the soap box to do that.
I personally am spending large sums of money currently to set up a few different systems for coral propagation, fish breeding etc...
however, realistically in Canada..the few setups that I am striving to create would be part of a very small small group of hobbyists who are trying to do this. I am not aware of companies who are breeding on any sizeable scale in Canada. Until this happens...the ocean is where we turn.
and consumer beware, aquacultured will cost more money as it is extremely labour intensive
my 2 cents
Neal

[trilinearmipmap]

I think it depends on the coral and the location it is taken from, just like fish.

There are some species and habitats which would be very vulnerable to collection. Other species and locales would withstand some harvesting.

Kind of like our B.C. forests. For me to make a judgement on some guy in Indonesia collecting corals to support his family, is like some European who thinks all of B.C. is raping their forests.

I go with frags from other hobbyists rather than wild collected corals because I am a casual hobbyist and I figure there is less chance of introducing unwanted pests.