Anyone purchased tampabaysaltwater.com live rock?

[Taoism]

I am curious to know if anyone has dealt with them in Canada. I exchanged a few emails last night as per below, and am trying to figure out why there would be suddenly no fees involved if I drive to the US to pick the stuff up...

They have not responeded to my last email as of yet, so I am fishing for opinions here smile.gif

Cheers,
Keith.

==== PASTE of EMAILS =========
==== (reverse order - first at bottom) =========

ok, honestly I am not trying to be obtuse with this next question smile.gif

Shipping into canada is a pain as outlined below by you.

Can you tell me what to expect when bringing this stuff back across the border? I.e. no duties or taxes...so I declare it as X lbs of live rock and sand? Do you need to provide a CITES form with my order? I would like to clarify everything I need to bring it across the border with minimal diffculties at the border.

If you could clearly indicate to me what if any paperwork I would need to have with me, I would greatly appreciate it.

Or is it really as simple as driving to the border with a bunch of boxes of live rock and sand and telling them (the border guards) what is in the boxes?

Do you have any other Canadian customers who have done this?

Cheers,
Keith.
----- Original Message -----
From: Liverock
To: Keith Young
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: Shipping to Canada

It is a pain.....customs fee of $55, CITES permit 150.00 , freight about $1.25 per pound..........but if you pick up in the US, NO fees, freight about .50 cents a pound.....plus there are no duties and taxes on live rock or sand when you go back across....almost makes a 10 hour drive worth it.....
Richard TBS
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Young
To: Liverock
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Shipping to Canada

Hmmm, I suppose I could, but I don't have any experience in dealing with customs for this kind of stuff, so what would I have to do when I get back up to the border? I.e. is there CITES paperwork involved?

Which airport could you ship to? Grand Forks, ND would be about the closest US city I can think of. Probably an 8-10 hour round-trip assuming a fast border crossing. Is there problems with shipping straight into Canada?

Cheers,
Keith.
----- Original Message -----
From: Liverock
To: Keith Young
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: Shipping to Canada

can you drive accross the border and pick up at a US airport?
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Young
To: liverock@tbsaltwater.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: Shipping to Canada

I am possibly interested in getting your live rock and live sand shipped to me in Canada.

Would you possibly be able to give me an indication of typical shipping rates to Canada? And do you have any idea what your customers in Canada typically pay for duty on a shipment from you?

If it helps to give a shipping estimate, I am in Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, postacl code R2V 1J7



Thanks in advance!


Cheers,
Keith.
======= END PASTE ============

[ 29 May 2002, 15:47: Message edited by: Taoism ]

[Aquattro]

I'm curious why you don't go thru Jayson at www.saltwaterconnection.com. (http://www.saltwaterconnection.com.) He's a tiny bit closer.

[canadawest]

Ditto to Brad's comment.

Or J&L Aquatics, or AquariumPros.ca? Any of which can supply you with live rock at competitive prices, probably lower than ordering from the US, and you will most definitely pay duties and/or taxes on your shipment, plus you need a Cities permit for live rock (Cities protected item).

[Taoism]

Well, I do deal with Jayson. He is building my tanks, I have recently purchased 600 lbs of sand from him, and am getting another 300lbs of sand very soon.

Jayson is great, and I have had no problems with him and will continue to send the bulk of my business to him.

I have looked into J&L and aquariumpros.ca, but that wasn't the question I posed in my original post ;p

tampabaysaltwater has gotten many rave reviews on many boards and are one of the few companies that will ship into Canada from the US (albeit its a PITA as indicated in his reply to me).

As for live rock being covered under CITES... Please don't take this as a flame, but have you read CITES? I have, and no where did I see "live rock" mentioned as being restricted. The organisms listed in CITES that would be affected for import by an aquariast are most hard corals, and a clam or two. I don't want to open the PDF this second and look it all up again, but live rock/sand is NOT covered under CITES unless there was another ammendment to it that I am not aware of. If I am mistaken on this, please direct me to what page of the CITES agreement, or supplement that contains references to live rock being restricted because that WILL greatly affect a person's ability to bring liverock across the border.

Also, I got a follow-up from TBS today as pasted below.

In any case I hope you don't read my response above to the CITES comment to be inflamatory, I don't mean it like that at all. I like to make informed decisions, and I have spent a wee bit of time phoning around the federal gov't and reading the documents on the CITES website to ensure I have a decent grasp of what it covers.

Thanks for at least responding though!

Cheers,
Keith.

========= EMAIL PASTE =========
======== most recent at the top ==========
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Londeree
To: Keith Young
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: Shipping to Canada

There are no problems at the border, have many canadian customers who do this.......we are at 1-813-875-3574 for info/orders!
Thanks'
Richard TBS
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Young
To: Liverock
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: Shipping to Canada

ok, honestly I am not trying to be obtuse with this next question smile.gif

Shipping into canada is a pain as outlined below by you.

Can you tell me what to expect when bringing this stuff back across the border? I.e. no duties or taxes...so I declare it as X lbs of live rock and sand? Do you need to provide a CITES form with my order? I would like to clarify everything I need to bring it across the border with minimal diffculties at the border.

If you could clearly indicate to me what if any paperwork I would need to have with me, I would greatly appreciate it.

Or is it really as simple as driving to the border with a bunch of boxes of live rock and sand and telling them (the border guards) what is in the boxes?

Do you have any other Canadian customers who have done this?

Cheers,
Keith.

========== END PASTE ==========

[ 30 May 2002, 16:03: Message edited by: Taoism ]

[Delphinus]

http://www.cites.org/eng/resols/11/11_10.shtml

I always though Live Rock was listed as Appendix I. I can't find any concrete reference other than the above though. I'm pretty sure it is.

If you're really unsure, ask Canada Customs. Their database does list "Live Rock" as an import category if I am not mistaken. You just need to get ahold of someone who actually knows (you've probably just get a run-around if you've been trying to call people).

I wouldn't attempt to bring rock across the border without valid documentation. If customs does beleive you to be in violation of CITES, it is serious business from what I've been told. Big time fines, possibly even jail time. I'm not sure but that's what I've been told. It's not worth the risk.

[ 30 May 2002, 18:50: Message edited by: delphinus ]

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

i have checked on this before.
yes you need a cities permit to cross the border.
but if you want to take the chance without the permit you need to get a receipt from the purchaser stating it is dry rock no live,you will get away with it. :D
i done this many times before being air shipped only no ground. ;)
untill some other distributers confessed :mad: on that company i dealt with,they stopped shipping to Canada. :rolleyes:

[Jayson]

Keith you do need a CITES permit for the rock and sand that wish to bring across the boarder. You can contact Richard Labossier at the custom locally. Call me I will give you the number. The reason that you can not find it in the CITES paper work is it is not clearly defined as live rock. What they look for it if it has any life on on it. Any life at all. They will check to see if it has porites if it does it is a cities item. If you are caught trying to bting it accross the fine effective April 1st 2002 is a whooping $2000.00 for a first offence. You will also have a smuggling charge and your rock will be confiscated. You will also want to contact a lawyer as you will have a court apperance to deal with. There was a local store here that tried it. They are no longer is business. If you have any more questions feel free to call me.