Power Outage options? - UPS?

[Raf]

So what do you guys do in case of lengthy power outages on your reef tanks?

I know the obvious answer is a generator BUT what if the tank is in a high rise? Does anyone run a UPS that can actually keep some circulation pumps(TUNZE/Koralia) and a heater working on and off for a few hours or more?

What other options are there?

thank you

[Raf]

what about this product used with a 12V deep cycle battery?

http://www.theresourcestore.ca/proddetail.php?prod=806-1020

[Wayne]

The age old, take some water out raise it a foot in the air and pour back into tank to aerate the water. Blankets to try and keep warm, and if it lasts more than a few hours better do a water change when power comes back on.

[freddy]

I use a battery backup from canadian tire,power went out for 5.5 hrs last winter,ran 500 aquaclear,skimmer,one powerhead and heater.It is the noma 400.

[mike31154]

Not a bad idea since it has the automatic transfer switch to kick in the backup even if you're not around. The only thing with that inverter is that it produces a modified sine wave which generally is not good for any type of AC motor. A pure sine wave inverter is going to substantially increase the price of this thing, which is already well over $400.

Alternatives other than the generator, which you already know about, is a VorTech with battery backup. This will set you back over $500 if you buy the EcoTech battery backup for the pump, but it wouldn't be too difficult to rig a deep cycle battery up to any VorTech pump. All you need is some wire and a small connector to plug into the 12 volt receptacle on the VorTech driver. The driver automatically switches to the 12 volt supply once the 24 volt supply is lost.

I think Tunze now also has a battery backup for some of their pumps.

what about this product used with a 12V deep cycle battery?

http://www.theresourcestore.ca/proddetail.php?prod=806-1020

[Lampshade]

I was looking at this awhile ago. There's lots of online mods to computer ups's. The big thing to watch for is that most computer ups's are made to provide power for only a few min to shut down. So they do not offer any cooling for the inverter or transformer. There story's of house fires from the transformers melting through the case. I've read that you should only run them at 25% loading if you are going to run continuous. It's doable, look at gel battery's since they are safer indoors, just pricey.

I'm sure lots of the prince Rupert area reefers have some decent idea's after the past few months. Some multi day outages there...

http://www.instructables.com/id/Rework-a-UPS-with-Massive-Capacity/

[daniella3d]

I have the Noma 400 as well and that's great for power outage.

UPS are just cr@p as they run for no more than 15 or 20 minutes. They are not meant to keep the power going long term so they are worthless for our use. They are only meant to keep a computer running a very short while for very short power outage so that the provided software shut down the computer.

I use a battery backup from canadian tire,power went out for 5.5 hrs last winter,ran 500 aquaclear,skimmer,one powerhead and heater.It is the noma 400.

[piusma]

I use a tripp-lite inverter, one that is similar to this

Tripp-lite inverter (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5017622&CatId=237)

It's an inverter and at the same time a charger for a car battery. I hook up a deep cycle battery to it and run 2 Tunze DC powerheads to it. It also powers my Aqua controller and my router/cable box. It'll run for about 4 hours. I choose to use this inverter because I could switch out the battery if it stops working and it out perform a regular UPC when it comes to efficiency. However the inverter + battery did cost a little over $450 but it is very reliable.

Steven

[Myka]

Is this what you mean Mike? Is it big enough? 1000W Pure Sine Inverter $300 (http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/SolarPortablePower/Inverters/PRD%7E0111892P/1%25252C000W%252BPure%252BSine%252BInverter/CROSSSELL%7E0111818%20Noma%2BBack-up%2BPower%2BSystem%2B%2B1%2B800W.jsp?locale=en)

Personally, I just have a couple battery operated air pumps. I would be hooped for a long outage. I would like to look at options too, thanks for bringing this up Raf. I have the option for a generator, so I think that is the best route if the option exists.

I imagine this Noma 1800W Backup Power $500 (http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/SolarPortablePower/BackupPower/PRD~0111818P/Noma%252BBack-up%252BPower%252BSystem%25252C%252B1%25252C800W.js p?locale=en) would work for quite some time...?

[JMes]

It seems it's going to be a very cold long winter. Already -25 this morning:(. I'm having this bad feeling i'm going to be facing more power outage then usual. I was thinking about getting the Duracell Powerpack 600. Anyone else try this?
http://www.duracellpower.com/backup-power/power-packs/powerpack-600.aspx
or the Duracell Powersource 1800?
http://www.duracellpower.com/backup-power/uninterrupted-power/powersource-1800.aspx

[toxic111]

I haven't one to deal with in awhile, but my plan is to plug in the skimmer, heater & return pump up to my FJ Crusier's AC outlet. Should keep me going.

[Raf]

thanks for the input guys!!



Wayne, can I hire you to stay at my client's office and pour water into their office tank throughout the night? lol! ;)

[mike31154]

Is this what you mean Mike? Is it big enough? 1000W Pure Sine Inverter $300 (http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/SolarPortablePower/Inverters/PRD%7E0111892P/1%25252C000W%252BPure%252BSine%252BInverter/CROSSSELL%7E0111818%20Noma%2BBack-up%2BPower%2BSystem%2B%2B1%2B800W.jsp?locale=en)

Personally, I just have a couple battery operated air pumps. I would be hooped for a long outage. I would like to look at options too, thanks for bringing this up Raf. I have the option for a generator, so I think that is the best route if the option exists.

I imagine this Noma 1800W Backup Power $500 (http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/SolarPortablePower/BackupPower/PRD~0111818P/Noma%252BBack-up%252BPower%252BSystem%25252C%252B1%25252C800W.js p?locale=en) would work for quite some time...?

Yes, this is what I was referring to with pure sine wave inverters. Your AC voltage pumps will love it. As to whether it's big enough that depends on the total wattage of equipment you wish to run on it. Although you could hook it up to some beefy deep cycle batteries and get a very long run time, 1000 watts isn't all that much. I do see that it's rated for 1000 watts continous and 2000 watts peak. Some of the inverters I've seen offered are sold as 1000 watts but when you look at the specs closely, you quickly find out that is the peak and the continuous rating is somewhat lower. In any case, it's always good to build an 80% buffer into the rating so you're not running at peak power for any length of time. That goes for your average 15 amp household circuit as well.

As you can see, for the price of the pure sine wave 1000 watt inverter you can easily get a modified sine wave inverter almost 3 times that capacity to run more equipment. But as mentioned, better not to run any AC voltage pumps on one of those. So I guess one option would be to use the 1000 watt pure sine wave inverter to run your sump pump and maybe a small power head or two and get another, cheaper modified sine wave inverter to run things like heaters, lights, etc. No reason you couldn't hook both inverters to the same bank of batteries, but be mindful of the run time with too much gear hooked up. You really need to do the homework to figure out how long you can run how much and differentiate between what's critical to keep you system alive during a lengthy power outage. So by the time you add up the cost for inverters, batteries etc, if you expect a long power outage a generator is probably still the best option if you can swing it. With a generator you can go big at a more reasonable cost and run plenty of other stuff around the house.

With respect to the Noma unit, again, not sure how long it will last and I couldn't tell from the specs whether it provides pure or modified sine wave. It also doesn't mention any kind of run time on the web page, you'd want to have a look at more of the specs before using this as an option. All this is, is a self contained inverter/battery/charger unit, most likely with a gel cel battery inside that will be costly to replace once it's worn out. The advantage of this unit is it has the built in transfer relay so you don't need to be present when the power goes out. It switches on automatically in the same manner as computer UPS. With the diy inverter/battery set up you'll need to switch things over manually during an outage unless your handy with electrical stuff and wire up your own relay. Generator is the same idea, you need to be there to fire it up and monitor it. There are generators available for your house that include automatic transfer option too, but you don't want to know the price.

JMes, that Duracell 1800 unit is identical to the Noma 1800 that Mindy linked to, just rebranded with a different company logo, like so many of our home appliances.

What do I have as a back up you may ask??? Like Mindy, I have a couple of PennPlax battery powered air pumps that have a sensing relay and will kick in when power goes out. I have two VorTechs but no battery backup for them. Been meaning to get on that, I've got the electrical background to easily rig that, but pretty spoiled here in Vernon with regard to power outages, there's only been one for more than an hour since I moved here in 2004. During the one extended (4 hours I think) outage, I pulled one of the batteries out of my Toyota Hilux, wired a small inverter to it and ran the essential gear off that. Worked fine, I was even able to keep my skimmer going since it's old school wooden air diffuser driven. Air pump and powerhead only use 16 watts combined so not much power required to keep that going.

[mike31154]

I use a tripp-lite inverter, one that is similar to this

Tripp-lite inverter (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5017622&CatId=237)

It's an inverter and at the same time a charger for a car battery. I hook up a deep cycle battery to it and run 2 Tunze DC powerheads to it. It also powers my Aqua controller and my router/cable box. It'll run for about 4 hours. I choose to use this inverter because I could switch out the battery if it stops working and it out perform a regular UPC when it comes to efficiency. However the inverter + battery did cost a little over $450 but it is very reliable.

Steven

This looks like a pretty good bang for the buck since it's inverter/charger combined. They don't state clearly in the specs whether it's pure sine wave but from the other info provided and price per watt, I'm pretty sure it is. The advantage of DC pumps like Tunze and VorTech in power outage situations can not be overstated. Since they use DC from the get go, you don't even need an inverter, just a battery, the appropriate connector and Bob's your uncle. No matter how efficient an inverter is, there's always some power lost through the DC to AC conversion process. I've even considered looking into a DC return pump for when I set up a sump.... if I ever get around to that.

[piusma]

Just so everyone is aware of the fact that the tripp-lite is only a modified sine wave unit but it's very efficient and has a great review. I've ran this for about a year now and it had been really great. I'm confident with it's performance and if the battery dies, I'll only need to get a new replacement deep cycle battery.

Steven

[mark]

seeing some high wattage suggestions, be thinking for a power outage run the minimum to extend battery life.

my plan, not to worry about the lights, CL, skimmer, basement return pump etc. Just be throwing in the heater and power head I normally use for my water changes into the display for heat and aeration. Have run this off a cheap UPS and if looking to be a long time have a cheap little generator. Both are not true sinewave and no problems with the PH, plus if was long term, for the difference in price between a cheap UPS and true sine, go to Aquagiant and but a few more PHs.

[abcha0s]

I have the Noma 400 as well and that's great for power outage.

UPS are just cr@p as they run for no more than 15 or 20 minutes. They are not meant to keep the power going long term so they are worthless for our use. They are only meant to keep a computer running a very short while for very short power outage so that the provided software shut down the computer.

I would respectfully disagree with this statement. While it may be generally true of consumer grade UPSs, it is an over simplification of the higher end UPSs that are available.

The run time is a factor of load. If you put one pump on a Data Center UPS, it will run for weeks before draining the batteries.

I run my entire system (with the exception of the lights) on a PowerWare 1500VA UPS. If a power failure occurs, the controller shuts off everything except the sump return, powerheads, heater and skimmer.

I have tested this for 4 hours and still had roughly 50% charge.

One thing to watch for, and I think it was already mentioned, but make sure the UPS produces a true sine wave. I would guess that pumps don't like square waves?

In the end, the UPS is such a simple solution. Although, perhaps not the cheapest.

[amoreira]

One can get a 1 - 3 kW generator from Costco for $300 to $500. One can't run it indoors though. It'll last as long as you have gasoline.

[mike31154]

I did ramble on somewhat in a couple of posts here, but bottom line is everyone needs to look at their own system and determine what can get their livestock through an extended power outage. Really depends on your particluar set up. Anything from a battery operated air pump to a 5KW generator and everything in between (batteries, inverters, UPSs, combinations thereof) can work. No one can predict when an outage will occur and how long it will last. You buys your gear and takes your chances. How valuable are your critters to you? While I personally don't have one yet, I still believe a generator is your best insurance and bang for your buck for any situation that may arise.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

I have several battery packs from Canadian Tire that will keep powerheads running for about a day each.

I also have a portable gas generator for major emergencies, but haven't had to use it yet. I have a few jerry cans and at least a couple of them are full of gas at any one time. I use the gas in my CRV and get new gas every month or two, so I don't have old gas sitting around.

[globaldesigns]

I personally use a generator, bought my first one for $200 bucks used, and it could power most of the house. Then I had my business buy a much better one that could power the house and is designed to be used with electronics. Basically supplies a much cleaner power supply.

What I am getting at, is that you can look for a used gas generator and probably get it cheap, in many cases the same price as buying UPS's or battery packs. And with a generator the power is unlimited, as long as it is gassed up.

[DiverDude]

There are really so many variables to this equation as to make a useful solution essentially impractical.

Let's just dip a toe into this for a second....


The power goes out:

If it's less than an hour, I'd say do nothing.

If it's more than an hour then is it summer or winter (i.e. are you heating your tank to make temp or cooling it ?). If it's winter then you need to run a heater (several hundred watts). If summer, then a chiller -also several hundred watts but it also requires a high startup current for the compressor.

Regardless, you need something to circulate water (flow). This varies from tank to tank and could be a single pump like a vortech or several smaller units. In an emergency, perhaps the flow from your return will suffice for up to.....???? hours. If not, you need more power for the circulation pumps.

Lights -turn them off. Unless the outage is going to be days long, you can go without.

Oh...and where were you when the power went out ? If you think a generator will save you but the power goes out while you're away then it's just going to sit there. On the other hand, a UPS will keep things running for an hour (maybe) or perhaps more if you're running a modified unit with deep cycle batteries -great if it's a short outage but if it's longer, you've blown your load early and now you've got nothing left.

I could go on but you get the point.

If you really want to be 'bulletproof' then you need to come up with a table that shows how long you can do without each item you usually use (lights, pumps, skimmer etc.). Then, you need a controller to kick each of these items on/off at the right times. Finally, you need to do a power budget and add up the current draw for everything that is running at any given time and make sure your backup can a) supply at least that much power at all b) supply it for "long enough". You can then shop for a backup technology that will at least do what you need.

Clearly, the whole process -if it's to be done properly- is complex and probably beyond most reefers in terms of know-how and perhaps budget.

The only thing that'll REALLY solve all your problems is a natural gas-powered, auto-switchover whole-home generator. These will start automatically on power failure then switch over and run your whole house like nothing had happened. That'll run you a solid $10k (and up) !

[globaldesigns]

There are really so many variables to this equation as to make a useful solution essentially impractical.

Let's just dip a toe into this for a second....


The power goes out:

If it's less than an hour, I'd say do nothing.

If it's more than an hour then is it summer or winter (i.e. are you heating your tank to make temp or cooling it ?). If it's winter then you need to run a heater (several hundred watts). If summer, then a chiller -also several hundred watts but it also requires a high startup current for the compressor.

Regardless, you need something to circulate water (flow). This varies from tank to tank and could be a single pump like a vortech or several smaller units. In an emergency, perhaps the flow from your return will suffice for up to.....???? hours. If not, you need more power for the circulation pumps.

Lights -turn them off. Unless the outage is going to be days long, you can go without.

Oh...and where were you when the power went out ? If you think a generator will save you but the power goes out while you're away then it's just going to sit there. On the other hand, a UPS will keep things running for an hour (maybe) or perhaps more if you're running a modified unit with deep cycle batteries -great if it's a short outage but if it's longer, you've blown your load early and now you've got nothing left.

I could go on but you get the point.

If you really want to be 'bulletproof' then you need to come up with a table that shows how long you can do without each item you usually use (lights, pumps, skimmer etc.). Then, you need a controller to kick each of these items on/off at the right times. Finally, you need to do a power budget and add up the current draw for everything that is running at any given time and make sure your backup can a) supply at least that much power at all b) supply it for "long enough". You can then shop for a backup technology that will at least do what you need.

Clearly, the whole process -if it's to be done properly- is complex and probably beyond most reefers in terms of know-how and perhaps budget.

The only thing that'll REALLY solve all your problems is a natural gas-powered, auto-switchover whole-home generator. These will start automatically on power failure then switch over and run your whole house like nothing had happened. That'll run you a solid $10k (and up) !

You just took things to another level. Things that make you go HMMMMMM!

[mark]

... and balanced against the 5 years I've been here total power outage maybe 3 hours (probably less).

[cwatkins]

The only thing that'll REALLY solve all your problems is a natural gas-powered, auto-switchover whole-home generator. These will start automatically on power failure then switch over and run your whole house like nothing had happened. That'll run you a solid $10k (and up) !
MMMMMmmmmm. If only money grew on trees (and if I had room beside the house....)