Vortech Failure

[Madreefer]

Anyone have a dry side fail on one of these units. I put a post up a while back about the noise mine was making from new. The noise has now got alot louder. It is under warranty and I am getting a new part sent to me but the noise is really ****in me off and I see there is a screw on the inner part of the dry side. Has anyone adjusted it at all? Dont want to do so unless someone else has tried with some sort of success.

[globaldesigns]

I have talked to Ecotech Marine, as I had one dry side replaced, and just last week I was again talking with them, as my second unit sometimes gets noisy also.

They said not to turn that screw on the dry side, as it is meant to be tightened from the other side. I guess under the EcoTech logo, there is something under there. At least that is what they indicated.

So I would not suggest turning it.

[bkelly]

did you try taking apart & cleaning the wet side - my bearing seized and it was noisy before. the get crap in them and tearing them apart/soaking in vinegar really helps,

[Madreefer]

Ya I cleaned the wet side with vinegar. It's definetly the dry side. It's a rattling sound and I tried it with out the dry side attached for a second and the noise does'nt change. It appears as if the rotating part that has the screw I asked about is not in line 'cause when it powers down it looks like it is out of round. Thanks, I guess I wont be pulling any stickers off to adjust the screw since it will most likely void the warranty.

[BlueTang<3]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1901337

[DiverDude]

There are just waaay too many problems with these Vortechs for the price they charge for them. Not to say that at half the price (where they should be priced) it would be any more acceptable for them to fail like this.

Makes me want a wavebox.

[christyf5]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1901337

Oy! Do not do this if you still have a warranty (or even if you don't). Its a real beehatch getting those bearings off and you'll end up doing some real damage. Better off having ecotech deal with it (which is what I should have done instead of trying to get the bearings off and ultimately shattering the magnet).

[globaldesigns]

There are just waaay too many problems with these Vortechs for the price they charge for them. Not to say that at half the price (where they should be priced) it would be any more acceptable for them to fail like this.

Makes me want a wavebox.

You need to try them Mark... I do love mine overall and even though they are expensive, they are worth the money. The settings on the Vortechs do more than any wavebox can do. Sorry, but a wavebox just doesn't compare in my opinion, in areas of creating undertows, exporting of nutrients and elimination of dead spots.

Edit: also in regards to service, I can say they are great, quite comparable to Hydor.

[christyf5]

You need to try them Mark... I do love mine overall and even though they are expensive, they are worth the money. The settings on the Vortechs do more than any wavebox can do. Sorry, but a wavebox just doesn't compare in my opinion, in areas of creating undertows, exporting of nutrients and elimination of dead spots.

Edit: also in regards to service, I can say they are great, quite comparable to Hydor.

I don't think waveboxes ever claimed to do any of that though, they were just designed to create a more natural wave motion in a tank. I can definitely say that I get way more intense (like ridiculously intense) polyp extension with my wavebox than with the vortech (not to say that the vortech doesn't do all that you say but then again so does my tunze 6080 and it was a third the price of a vortech).

[mike31154]

If it's under warranty and a new dry side is in the mail I wouln't mess with it. Clearly there's a problem somewhere in there if the noise is getting worse.

As far as 'way too many problems', I have two MP40s that have been running great, one for over two years and the other for well over a year. There are only two pump/powerhead manufacturers that stick their necks out by having their own forums on RC and that's EcoTech and Tunze. So yes, you're going to read about problems on these forums but you have to remember for every problem there are likely thousands of these products running without a hitch. There were some issues with my original MP40, but it was a Gen 1 with the old magnet and it was a relatively low cost fix. I also sent one dry side in due to an odd noise even though it was running fine, but since it was under warranty and EcoTech service is excellent, I decided to have them look at it.

One of the advantages of the VorTech is the small footprint in your display, I can't imagine replacing my MP40s with something as large as a wavebox.

[Madreefer]

Dont get me wrong. I really like my Vortech and they have been great to deal with. Just was curious if there was some sort of temporary fix. Really dont want to put my big bulky Koralia in while waiting for the new part to arrive. Thanks for the link Wes, Inever think of going to RC as I think they are a bunch of nozzles.

[don.ald]

service is excellent, no doubt. but they are always being serviced:cry:

[paddyob]

Inever think of going to RC as I think they are a bunch of nozzles.


+1.

I tried to post once to buy a light from someone.... but admin told me that until I had "50 meaningful posts" I was not able to access buy and sell?!?!?!

Cudos to Canreef. RC sucks.

[DiverDude]

You need to try them Mark... I do love mine overall and even though they are expensive, they are worth the money. The settings on the Vortechs do more than any wavebox can do. Sorry, but a wavebox just doesn't compare in my opinion, in areas of creating undertows, exporting of nutrients and elimination of dead spots.

Edit: also in regards to service, I can say they are great, quite comparable to Hydor.

No argument on the product's functionality, just it's reliability. These pumps are meant to replace multiple smaller pumps which, when they work, is great. However when they fail, they represent a single point of failure that means NO FLOW until it's fixed. For those of us who upgrade from other powerheads that we KEPT, we can hobble along. For those who either jumped right into one of these or sold their old powerheads......well....that can be a real problem.

These products are priced at a real premium and as such should represent premium value -which, for a mission-critical component, means RELIABILITY.

I'd be curious to see some hard numbers on how many of these have been sold and how many have had issues. From my perspective, there's an unusually high number of problems but for all I know, the problems represent 1% of all the units in the field -a pretty respectable number from a manufacturing point of view. Now we're never going to see those numbers so we only have perceptions to go on.

As someome starting to plan for a larger tank in the future and who was planning on putting an MP40 in it, I have to tell you, I'm pretty nervous about spending $500 on a pump and have it fail 1 month after the warranty is over. I'm pretty handy and have a full shop so changing the bearings doesn't scare me but the point is that for $500, I shouldn't HAVE to.:razz:

[Madreefer]

Seems pretty easy to change the bearings after reading a link bluetang<3 put up. After warranty is up that is what i"ll be doin. Diverdude makes a valid point about having a spare PH around. Glad I still had a Koralia in my junk bin but uggh....it's so ugly to look at. Another Vortech is on my wish list but it"ll be a MP60.

[Madreefer]

Those of you that happened to have a problem with the dry side of these units, what did you have to do to get warranty on them?

[globaldesigns]

No argument on the product's functionality, just it's reliability. These pumps are meant to replace multiple smaller pumps which, when they work, is great. However when they fail, they represent a single point of failure that means NO FLOW until it's fixed. For those of us who upgrade from other powerheads that we KEPT, we can hobble along. For those who either jumped right into one of these or sold their old powerheads......well....that can be a real problem.

These products are priced at a real premium and as such should represent premium value -which, for a mission-critical component, means RELIABILITY.

I'd be curious to see some hard numbers on how many of these have been sold and how many have had issues. From my perspective, there's an unusually high number of problems but for all I know, the problems represent 1% of all the units in the field -a pretty respectable number from a manufacturing point of view. Now we're never going to see those numbers so we only have perceptions to go on.

As someome starting to plan for a larger tank in the future and who was planning on putting an MP40 in it, I have to tell you, I'm pretty nervous about spending $500 on a pump and have it fail 1 month after the warranty is over. I'm pretty handy and have a full shop so changing the bearings doesn't scare me but the point is that for $500, I shouldn't HAVE to.:razz:

Personally I have NOT had any failures of any sort.... I have had them get a bit noisy, and Ecotech has been great in replacing one dry side component, and offering to replace the second if I desire.

Great service, and no failure for me so far, so I still recommend.

Mark, I think overall the only complaint is that they can get noisy. We all know that they can break, like any other moving part. But I don't think the breakage and the numbers broken are the issue here overall. I do believe they are a higher quality component, as you stated they should be. As long as the company stands by their products, service and support then that should be what matters.

[Madreefer]

Well I seem to be having a problem finding out what to do. Talked to Ecotech and was told to send it but when I said I was from Canada they told me to go to thestore I bought it from. Did that and the owner said that his supplier told him that we have to deal with Ecotech directly. The store owner is helping me out with this but i'm really starting to get ****ed. The pump is already packed up and ready to send out. If this pump has to be sent to Pennsylvania during this time of the year it's going to take forever to finally have it back working in my tank. I'm guessing at least a month. So as far as i'm concerned that is not good service. Actually thinking of replacing the bearings myself to save all this hassle because it's obviously the bearings that are shot. But than I screw my warranty. This Vortech is only 4 months old. After dealing with this for a week now and still having it sit with no answers my suggestion to you Mark is to stay away from the Vortech due to the warranty service that i am getting.

[globaldesigns]

Well I seem to be having a problem finding out what to do. Talked to Ecotech and was told to send it but when I said I was from Canada they told me to go to thestore I bought it from. Did that and the owner said that his supplier told him that we have to deal with Ecotech directly. The store owner is helping me out with this but i'm really starting to get ****ed. The pump is already packed up and ready to send out. If this pump has to be sent to Pennsylvania during this time of the year it's going to take forever to finally have it back working in my tank. I'm guessing at least a month. So as far as i'm concerned that is not good service. Actually thinking of replacing the bearings myself to save all this hassle because it's obviously the bearings that are shot. But than I screw my warranty. This Vortech is only 4 months old. After dealing with this for a week now and still having it sit with no answers my suggestion to you Mark is to stay away from the Vortech due to the warranty service that i am getting.

Being in Canada, they don't want to deal with us directly. the first time I dealt with them, they did send me the new component from the US. I talked to them a week ago, and now you have to deal with someone in Canada. Sorry, I can't recall who, and I deleted the email. I would suggest that you call them back on Monday, and ask who to deal with, as they have a particular person/company that they told me about.

The LFS you bought it from should be able to help, but it may be faster to find out the direct Canadian wholesaler.

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

[DiverDude]

Mark, I think overall the only complaint is that they can get noisy.

Yes, but "noisy" is the bearings starting to fail. As long as it's under warranty, then....well...it still takes TIME (time with no Vortech in your tank) to get it fixed (regardless of whether you're paying or not).

Presumeably, they replace the dry side in it's entirety but even if they didn't, I think it's safe to assume that the replacement or repaired unit will have the same inferior quality bearings. Perhaps the bearings are good quality and there is a design issue; I don't know and the Vortech folks will never say.

One way or the other, it seems safe to say that it is simply a question of time before the bearings will have to be replaced on these. For the 'lucky ones' they'll fail early and you don't have to pay for it. For others, they'll last a little over a year and then fail.

Now, to be fair.... these pumps speed up and slow down endlessly, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.....it's a LOT. However, if you're going to sell something that's *designed* for such a demanding application, and charge primo $$ for it, you'd better damned well be sure it can cut the mustard, so to speak !

[globaldesigns]

Yes, but "noisy" is the bearings starting to fail. As long as it's under warranty, then....well...it still takes TIME (time with no Vortech in your tank) to get it fixed (regardless of whether you're paying or not).

Presumeably, they replace the dry side in it's entirety but even if they didn't, I think it's safe to assume that the replacement or repaired unit will have the same inferior quality bearings. Perhaps the bearings are good quality and there is a design issue; I don't know and the Vortech folks will never say.

One way or the other, it seems safe to say that it is simply a question of time before the bearings will have to be replaced on these. For the 'lucky ones' they'll fail early and you don't have to pay for it. For others, they'll last a little over a year and then fail.

Now, to be fair.... these pumps speed up and slow down endlessly, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.....it's a LOT. However, if you're going to sell something that's *designed* for such a demanding application, and charge primo $$ for it, you'd better damned well be sure it can cut the mustard, so to speak !

Well, anything that moves can wear, so it is expected. I can state the JL is selling replacement parts, and the pricing is quite reasonable. So I am not worried. They do what they claim, and do what other powerhead/wavemakers cannot. I am not worried, and can say that Ecotech has been easy to deal with, in my case.

Still worth the $$$$, IMO. But I am always opent to cheaper pricing, and would welcome them lowering their pricing. :biggrin:

[Chipie]

It's http://reefwholesale.com (Pat)that are now in charge of repairs for Ecotech in Canada. It's in Ottawa. Hope this helps.

[globaldesigns]

It's http://reefwholesale.com (Pat)that are now in charge of repairs for Ecotech in Canada. It's in Ottawa. Hope this helps.

That is it, that is exactly what they told me. If you contact them, I am sure you will be taken care of.

[Aqua-Digital]

Hi Guys

If the Vortech was purchased through on of our dealers (please ask the dealer for point of purchase) we have a very simple no hassle switch out plan if still in warranty, and if not an at import cost replacement program.

Take the unit to your dealer and they give you a new one. If wet side failure then you get a wet side, if dry side you get a dry side. If both you get both.

We then send the dealer a replacement

We try to offer the best client care where possible with this sort of thing. Just ask Ken at Blue World, his client had one fail and already the new one is on its way from us.

[BlueWorldAquatic]

I can attest to that.

BlueTang had a mp10 start going noisy, all it took was a phone call to Michael, and I have a replacement whole unit comming for him. I would have replaced it on my end if I had one in stock.

EcoTech support is only good for units purchased in the USA unfortunately.

Ken - BWA

[Chipie]

I had bought a wet side from one of your resellers in Canada (www.goreef.com) and i asked what to do for repairs or replacement and was sent by the guys fron goreef to Reefwholesale.com even if my wet side was still on warranty.As far as i know it was repaired, not exchanged. So i think you should make this clear to all your resellers. There seems to be some confusion here.

[Aqua-Digital]

Go Reef is not one of our dealers so we can not hold them to warranty or comment.

Here is our policy
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=568792#post568792

[BlueWorldAquatic]

There are actually 2 distributors that I know for the EcoTech line.

Reefwholesale & Aqua-Digital

Just depends on which you go through.

I have had warranty issues with both and both came out with flying colors.

One was a bit brighter than the other.

Ken - BWA

[Chipie]

So you mean that a fish store can sell your products and not be a reseller?

[Madreefer]

I can attest to that.

BlueTang had a mp10 start going noisy, all it took was a phone call to Michael, and I have a replacement whole unit comming for him. I would have replaced it on my end if I had one in stock.

EcoTech support is only good for units purchased in the USA unfortunately.

Ken - BWA

My dealer told me that his supplier which is in the U.S. told him that either he or myself have to deal with Ecotech ourselves. At being only 4 months old I would think the dealer would replace with no questions asked and deal with Ecotech himself. Not the only problem with this unit as the night mode is wonky on it. He said he would get back to me on monday so we'll see what he says. He seems to want to communicate via email. Maybe i'm too old school but don't find that too cool.

[Aqua-Digital]

few points here

Ecotech only ask an end user to contact them IF the end user is not sure of the problem, it is best to get first hand assistance rather than relayed through multiple points where the info could get miss read or lost. The dealer of course should be happy to contact the distributor for assistance also.

In regards to resellers - If you are a distributor you are banned from reselling the product yourself to end users. If a reseller buys direct from Ecotech (in bulk) they can not distribute the product to other stores also.

There is a clear line between distributor and reseller for Ecotech and we are strictly bound by it.

Distributor = sells to stores only, banned from selling to end users
reseller = LFS, either buys from registered distributor or buys in bulk direct from ecotech, they are banned from distributing to other stores.

If an LFS buys direct they are liable for their own warranties back to Ecotech and can have their own policies.

[Madreefer]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Well I got a call today from Trina at Reefwholesale. They are sending me a brand new pump. For those of you that don't know they are the place to deal with for warranty on the Vortech. Took a little digging around to get a solution to this issue and it has made me feel better about the product. Thanks Trina and Reefwholesale.

[Madreefer]

Well another rant! Was told that as soon as they receive my MP40 they will send out the replacement immediately. The unit was delivered on Dec.7 at 3:41. Well now on the 11th I get an email saying unfortunately they cannot send out the new one because I did not send the power supply. "Please inform us if you are going to send the power supply or your credit card number so we can charge $58.70 for the cost." Are you frigging kidding me? Take the power supply out and send the damn pump! As if i'm trying to pull one over on them and try to get myself a spare power supply! I got screwed around for a week trying to find out where to get some help for this peice of crap. The only way I got a response was by posting a rant on Reef Central. So I take back my words. The customer service sucks. There goes my plan for putting a MP60 in my tank. Who would pay $799 for something that has crappy bearings in it and has so many compalints within a year of use? I would'nt and I dont recommend this product to anyone, mine failed after 4 months. Sorry people but I had to rant somewheres.

[Aqua-Digital]

Man that sucks! Contact Kevin at red coal if you want an MP60 they purchase through us so any issues are dealt with immediately with absolute none of this.

I have no idea who is giving you this kind of support (will not get drawn into that one) but whichever way please do not get put off by it for your MP60, buy through Red Coral or another one of our vendors and you will have zero issues ever with product support you have my personal assurance just as with the Skimz.

As I think Ken aready testified, we have zero issue warranty replacement proceedures on Vortech. Drop the unit off to your vendor and we snaction an immediate replacement providing the fault has been pre diagnosed by the vendor, us or Ecotech. We will then sort out the returns with the vendor so the client is left hassle free as best as possible.

Same with wet sides, if your wet side goes bad under warranty drop it into your vendor and they will replace it immediately no waiting around, of course this only applies if they are one of our vendors I can not speak for other distributors policies.

[Chipie]

Well Trina is at Reefwholeseller.com. I sent a gen1 dry side and it arrived on the 7th too and i still haven't heard back about it. I had a wet side that was on warranty go bad and sent it last summer and it took a very very long time for me to get it back. When i contacted them, they said they were testing my wet side before sending it back :( Hope this one goes faster.

[Madreefer]

Ya thats who i'm dealing with. I posted another rant on the other site. I know the president of Ecotech reads the posts. If retailers have to go through this same crap then why sell them.

[Aqua-Digital]

Retailers should be treated the same way the client is, the replacment is sent immediately by us (if our vendors) for them.

I will contact Ecotech in regards to all this on Monday.

[Chipie]

Thanks, I didn't want to say anything the other day when you said that a defective wet side should be replaced and not repaired. I was told by reefwholeseller that they were testing my wet side after a few week of receiving mine. So i was under the impression it was being repaired. Maybe they just told me that to gain some time...i don't know :(

[Aqua-Digital]

Sorry guys, i cant comment on other distributors policies, I am merely posting here to help protect Ecotech from bad feeling as it should not be this difficult. I think the issue is arising from multiple distribution points in Canada either large stores that buy direct or multiple stores that buy from us, or other distributor outlets.

Aqua Digital Incs own policy is posted on our Ecotech sub forum.

However I have just emailed Jay at Ecotech and made him aware of this thread so he can follow up with the parties or clients as required.

One thing highly important to Ecotech is their good name so i know they will look into all this.

If you have any further concerns please email us and we will look into it for you swiftly.

[Chipie]

I totally understand :) Thanks for wanting to help.