good comparason info on bulbs

[StirCrazy]

ok this link just arose from a heated discussion on RC, so fare it is the most copleat well layed out results I have seen from testing bulbs. also has some good explanations in there.

http://www.geocities.com/justinbaldwin/Sanjay.html

Steve

[canadawest]

Yeah I'll stick with my Iwasaki 6500K lamps supplemented with the VHO actinics.

I get the intensity, the full spectrum, the asthetic appeal, and the best bang for the buck considering the lamps are WAY cheaper than the higher K counterparts.

[ron101]

Anyone know who the maker is for the 10,000K 175watt bulbs that Hamilton distributes?

[Jack]

I use the 400 watt Iwasaki and I like it. How much do a set of VHO's run you usually? Anyone out there got any used ones for sale? Im gonna post in the buy/sell :D

[George]

Originally posted by Ron101:
Anyone know who the maker is for the 10,000K 175watt bulbs that Hamilton distributes?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Back in the day when I was using 175w, 10kk bulbs, all hamilton bulbs were mannufacturered by Ushio, a Japanese company. The reason that Hamilton claimed the bulbs were Geman because the plant that produced the bulbs was in German.
HTH
George

[Son Of Skyline]

Good find StirCrazy! I'm even happier with my 250w Iwasaki now :D Too bad there's no info on the 175w Coralife bulb though. I'm kind of curious to see how crappy my old Coralife really was.

[StirCrazy]

hehe, personaly I am interested in seing how the 150 watt DE HQI (german) that J&L is selling would stack up agains the AB's.. I have found the AB's but they will cost me about 180.00 to get the ones J&L have (the Ushio)

I am wondering because if it is even only close to the 250 wattt iwasaki instead of the 400 watt like the AB version for 10 bucks mor eit would be worth it to have the 10000K colour temp.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

another interesting thing has poped up.
seams that in order to show that the 150w 10K AB DE HQI are as bright as they clame, he put one in a pfo fixture and also put a 250w 10K Ushio Mogul in the same fixture and took a pic side by side.

250w 10K Ushio Mogul on the left- 150w 10K AB DE HQI on the right
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/150-250.jpg

Steve

[stephane]

Europen reefer who utilize this bulb for many years refer the 150 AB as a softies bulb and they have tested it for about 10 years

So people be aware before trow that money on someting like this

Here is a quote of the original start tread from
a guy who I have talk several time and he have a goog knowlege IMO:

The 400w is an Ushio in a PFO pendant driven by a PFO standard ballast. Bulb is about 4 months old. I am currently seeking an HQI ballast to run the 400w on so it will be even brighter (about 10%).

The 150w is an AB aquastarlight with a 6mo old 10KK AB bulb.

This really does put a nail in the coffin for those who are jumping on the 150w bandwagon expecting close to 400w intensities. Both pendants have a white paper towel under them to hopefully capture some color difference as well as display what is reflecting off.

Here are some pictures. You make your own decision.

http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=600338

[StirCrazy]

Stephan, you posted this on the other thread and the Germans said they use this bulbs for SPS on up to 24" deep tanks did you miss that? or do you not believe the Germans over the French? :D

That pic is not really a good one as the 150 is in an inferior pendant. If you look at the other pic they are in identical pendants.

Besides I am only comparing them to a 250watt bulb here... so don't turn this thread into a RC argument... I have not claimed here that the AB is a good of lights and everything I have posted has been factual and standardized... not the result of a half assed visual light test with to totaly different fixtures / reflectors. Personally I don't care what anyone uses for lights I just thought people would want to see some hard and fast #'s that were collected in a scientific and standardized method.

Steve

[stephane]

Originally posted by StirCrazy:
Stephan, you posted this on the other thread and the Germans said they use this bulbs for SPS on up to 24" deep tanks did you miss that? or do you not believe the Germans over the French? :D

That pic is not really a good one as the 150 is in an inferior pendant. If you look at the other pic they are in identical pendants.

Besides I am only comparing them to a 250watt bulb here... so don't turn this thread into a RC argument... I have not claimed here that the AB is a good of lights and everything I have posted has been factual and standardized... not the result of a half assed visual light test with to totaly different fixtures / reflectors. Personally I don't care what anyone uses for lights I just thought people would want to see some hard and fast #'s that were collected in a scientific and standardized method.

Steve<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">in FACT this is what they say so dont turn it to your advantage OK

i have to agree with much of Stephane's comments. Here in Europe the 150w DE lamps would be looked upon as softie tank. 250W for mixed or SPS corals.

I have run 150w DE Arcadia 10k in the past and got good colouration out of Pocillipora damicornis and a Seriatopora hystrix, most Acropora sp. were healthy and grew but no great colouration. On upgrading to 250w DE BLV 10k I have had excellent colouration of Acropora in my current tank although I was dissapointed that the size of the reflector in the Arcadia (similar to AB/Giesseman etc) was small so the tank only had on really bright spot with rapid drop off of light near the edges of the tank.

Now, I have just upgraded to 400w mogul BLV 10k for my new tank. First, I would like to say these lights are crisp white just like my 250w BLV DE 10k unlike some reports in the US of them been yellow. Secondly, I have measured PAR with my Apogee PAR meter and the 400w are putting out around 1.6x as much light as the 250w at 175cm from centre of the bulb. I am waiting for them to burn in the same amount of time as I did the 250w before taking any measurments to list.

I have never tried any of the US metal halide bulbs as all our European bulbs require ballast with ignitor which are cheaply and easily available.

[stephane]

Stir I could show you a lot more of similar europeen tread if you want
I reply here only because I dont want other to jump in the same bandwagon than you because I care about other but if you want to buy the 150 go for it man this is you money and reef

by the way you said on the other post:
personally I think dsb1829 original post should never have been made, how can you compare PAR from how much a bulb lights up a table
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">but you do exacly the same as him here so him very confuse here?

[Troy F]

I am wondering because if it is even only close to the 250 wattt iwasaki instead of the 400 watt like the AB version for 10 bucks mor eit would be worth it to have the 10000K colour temp.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm sure you're aware of this but don't forget to take bulb life in when comparing costs. This is where the Iwasaki really takes the lead IMO.

Of course to every point there is a counterpoint smile.gif .

DaleD had a 175W 10000K AB bulb over a LPS and softie tank that had been on there for I think 18 months with no signs of problematic microalgae. Chime in Dale if you happen to be reading.

[stephane]

And if you tink a 150 AB will beat a 250 iwasaki
this what I tink

I am French and have read a lot from french board in europe
and there no way you could grow any hight light demand on a
AB 150 HQI in fact they recomend this bulb for SOFTY you dont realy need to be scientific to know this only talk french those guy
run the AB for many years so I tink they know them a lot better than any of us! this not science this THE FACT !!!!!!!!

Anyway Comparing an iwasaki 400 or even a 250 whith an 150 watt 10k is completly usless and you dont need to be a rocket scientist to know that you only need to be a litle bright

the AB is on the market for more than 10 years (im not shure exact time but long time ) just tink about this and if a compagny have found a 150 that light like a 400 all other would have copy it long time ago!! not only for aquarium but all other MH aplication

[Troy F]

the AB is on the market for more than 10 years (im not shure exact time but long time ) just tink about this and if a compagny have found a 150 that light like a 400 all other would have copy it long time ago!! not only for aquarium but all other MH aplication<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hasn't the actual manufacturer of AB changed quite a few times? I believe there is information on Fishnet from either Dana or Richard that confirms this.

[Delphinus]

Just throwing my $0.02 into the hat here ...

Over my 20g tank I have a Hamilton 10000K 175W, that I bought in November 1999. It hasn't been used all the time since then so it's not a full 2.5 years of use however it is probably fair to say that it has >18 months at either 10 hours per day or 12 hours per day. No nuisance algaes yet! And the softies are fine under this bulb however there is NO coloration on the one remaining SPS in this tank (unless you count brown as a colour :D )

For a period of time I had the 250W Iwasaki (non-R) over this tank. I switched back to the 175W because of heat issues, mostly.

But I don't like the smaller intensity now that I once had the 250W Iwasaki over it. You get spoiled, you know.. smile.gif So what I want to do next for this tank is try the 150W DE 10000K. I know I won't get the same intensity as the 250W Iwasaki, but what I AM hoping for is a moderate improvement in intensity over my old 175W, but at a slightly smaller power draw. The long-term goal of this tank is really just a species tank for my green carpet and a few small softeys. I think this is a PERFECT application for the 150W DE bulb. This is, of course, me talking without having TRIED it, so, it is possible that one year from now I have a very different opinion. We shall see.

The only thing is, it is a rather expensive option. Most people I have talked to have tried to talk me out of this idea for my 20g based purely on the cost. And they might still succeed, I haven't yet bought the bulb or pendent yet. Maybe I'll just end up using my 150W e-ballast on the Iwasaki 150W blue bulb, and try that one on for size instead... I don't know yet.

[stephane]

delphinus

I dont want to discourage you of buying it because from what I have read it is a good bulb
but I only aware people from tinking that they are as bright as an Iwasaki 250 or 400

as far as what coral need what intensity its your to decide do we need the intensity of those monster?
I dont know for shure since some grow coral even under fluo and I do it in the past but if we dont need intensity why just bug buying 180$ MH bulb when you could do it whith VHO or PC smaller tank ?

[Delphinus]

Yikes! :eek: At $180 per bulb, the idea is COMPLETELY unattractive. I was hoping that when the time came, I'd be able to do better. But maybe not. I haven't started looking for a bulb yet, since I have too many other projects to finish first. But if it's almost $200 per SINGLE bulb .... indeed, a person is far better off just to go 250W Iwasaki at that point. The extra $$$ in the power bill isn't going to offset the extra $$$ in the purchase of the smaller bulb.

[StirCrazy]

Originally posted by stephane:
if you want to buy the 150 go for it man this is you money and reef <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Stephan, I never said once that I was going to buy the 150 watt HQI, the AB is the only one I would buy and at 180.00 it is too much I think.

by the way you said on the other post:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">personally I think dsb1829 original post should never have been made, how can you compare PAR from how much a bulb lights up a table
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">but you do exacly the same as him here so him very confuse here?[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I wasn't comparing PAR here the only reason I posted that pic is because they were in the same brand of pendants so it kinds will show the brightness, but that is it... you can not measure PAR, and I never claimed you could, by looking at how bright it is.

Anyways I was not trying to confuse anyone and due to some idiots on RC getting banned and all there posts being deleted the one I was referring to is no longer available. The one Stephan posted isn't the one I was talking about.

Having said that, it never seams to amaze me on how people automatically condemn something and refuse to believe specs that have been tested and posted for information. Now I know how Darwin must have felt when he tried to introduce the theory of evaluation :D anyways I started off just posting some factual numbers, not to say "Troy your lights suck you better go out and buy HQI", or "Brad you are wasting power with those 400 watt bulbs you need 150 watt ones they are just as good" (just examples guys I am not serious about these :D )Heck I am not even saying your setup is wrong Stephan, and no one has, so why are you so against people posting factual numbers but rather to help people like myself, who are looking for lights, sort through all the myth and legends.

Everyone is defending Iwasaki's... did I once say they were inferior? No... Hell in the 250 tests the iwasaki and the HQI were the top of the barrel. Remember Iwasaki is not a normal MH bulb, if you look at the data it is over twice the PAR of any other MH bulb except the AB mogul MH and the 250 HQI, so why isn't anyone bashing the Iwasaki... you can beleive it could be that powerfull can you? And if you can... why do you refuse to beleive that there could be one brand of DE HQI that has more output than the others? Hmmm sounds like the Iwasaki story doesn’t it.

I guess everyone is scared of change, heck there were even huge arguments about DSB's (and still are) even thought they have been proven to work.

Personally I applaud anyone who goes out of the way to provide a controlled and factual test and then make the result known for everyone to see, there should be more of this and maybe we can all stop spending money of stuff we don't need.

Hmmm Darren, maybe you better not test any Icecap ballasts, no one will believe you anyways :D :D

Steve

[Son Of Skyline]

Originally posted by StirCrazy:
[QUOTE]
Having said that, it never seams to amaze me on how people automatically condemn something and refuse to believe specs that have been tested and posted for information...
I guess everyone is scared of change, heck there were even huge arguments about DSB's (and still are) even thought they have been proven to work.

Personally I applaud anyone who goes out of the way to provide a controlled and factual test and then make the result known for everyone to see, there should be more of this and maybe we can all stop spending money of stuff we don't need.

Hmmm Darren, maybe you better not test any Icecap ballasts, no one will believe you anyways :D :D

Steve<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well said Steve. Personally, I thought that the initial picture posted with the 400w vs 150w DE next to each other was the best comparison pic I've ever seen. Simple, to the point, and accurate in terms of photo quality and consistency. I don't like to go by numbers, seeing the actual intensities side by side was a real eye opener.

[coldincanada]

Great link! I currently run 2 250W DE hqi 10K's and one 400w Iwasaki 65k. I was considering buying an E-ballast to run the 400w at 10k but I think I'll just get another DE250W hqi pendant instead. Almost the same par as a 400W 10k with 150w less of electricity.

Jay

[StirCrazy]

coldincanada

What brand are your 250 watt HQI's? And I think you hit the nail on the head... the 250 watt 10000K is almost the same as a 400 watt 10000K. Comparing bulbs with the same color temp is the important part IMHO.

Steve

[stephane]

[/QUOTE]
Anyways I was not trying to confuse anyone and due to some idiots on RC getting banned and all there posts being deleted the one I was referring to is no longer available. The one Stephan posted isn't the one I was talking about.

Having said that, it never seams to amaze me on how people automatically condemn something and refuse to believe specs that have been tested and posted for information. Now I know how Darwin must have felt when he tried to introduce the theory of evaluation so why are you so against people posting factual numbers but rather to help people like myself, who are looking for lights, sort through all the myth and legends.

Steve[/QB][/QUOTE]

Hi Steve You know why the tread have been delete? because it was R&B who have post it not a germain that Why gregt have remove it simple as this R&B register on mutiple name and alway try to get people rong or bashing on anyone

Regarding all the Darwin reply you know I feel about the same Steve I am not lying when I said that praticaly all Europeen people tell that this bulb is a softie bulb if you could read french I will get you all the link to the french forum you could even ask them by your self. Here in amerique this bulb is new there it is not and all this mud on the AB is comming from the test of Sanjay in the reef anual 2002 we even have ask to sanjay and he clearly tell us that this is confusing du to the reflector concentrate all the light in a small beam and the other bulb dont have a reflector at all so he said there no way that 150 will beat a 250 or a 400.

I dont want to slam you Steve I only try to Help
people and even you to dont make any mistake maybe that bulb is good but as for now whit all what I know on it
I could only tell people to be carefull whit this bulb

Second I Import bulb and could have the AB for lot sheaper than you see here less than 100$ + 100$ for the ballast M81 and I dont want to import it because I am not very shure about it I and in fact looking more on the side of the Radium and I will try to get Canadian reefer price that even US could not have them. I dont do this for the money I do this to share and make people happy and because I love this hobby so dont hesitate
Steve I will send you all the link and then you will see by your self if you dont believe me

About slaming the Iwasaki I tink if you was doing someting like that you will get your self only
discredit since this bulb is the best for you buck you could have for now I have this one a lot sheaper than all of you get it and already suply some online reefer but I want to find someting better and I tink the Radium is the key if I could find a ballast that goes whit it

Good night everybody and steve I like you because you alway search,argue and to want to know even before to have your reef and I tink most of reefer dont do it and say sorry Im shure you will have succes keep working !

The round is over :D

[stephane]

Originally posted by coldincanada:
Great link! I currently run 2 250W DE hqi 10K's and one 400w Iwasaki 65k. I was considering buying an E-ballast to run the 400w at 10k but I think I'll just get another DE250W hqi pendant instead. Almost the same par as a 400W 10k with 150w less of electricity.

Jay<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Where did you get this?

[stephane]

Sorry I found it you talk about a mogul 400 10k
vs 250 w hqi